When "The Church" became catholic.

[yogosans14]

I'm saying the Church consist of born again (baptized) believers. But not all baptized believers attend the Church.
If you are asking if all baptized believers are of the Church? I don't know.

Im guessing by the baptized in quotes your implying only born again Christians are baptized. Anyways "Not all baptized believers attend the Church" im very confused because the Church were both referring to is the people right?Not a organization...

 

[Targaryen]

Im guessing by the baptized in quotes your implying only born again Christians are baptized. Anyways "Not all baptized believers attend the Church" im very confused because the Church were both referring to is the people right?Not a organization...

No I think she's saying, and Mama K can correct me if I'm misinterpreting it, is that not all those that are baptized truly believe, therefore aren't exactly members of the church.

Remember baptism had been seen for years in secular terms as just something to do with your child after they are born. Making them, "chrisitan" in name only, not exactly making sure the child follows through in the faith.

 

[yogosans14]

No I think she's saying, and Mama K can correct me if I'm misinterpreting it, is that not all those that are baptized truly believe, therefore aren't exactly members of the church.

Remember baptism had been seen for years in secular terms as just something to do with your child after they are born. Making them, "chrisitan" in name only, not exactly making sure the child follows through in the faith.

Oh ok, well thats one of the reasons Im for believers baptism

 

[bbbbbbb]

Oh ok, well thats one of the reasons Im for believers baptism

I am, as well, but sometimes people are baptized as "believers" when they have a minimal grasp of the gospel. However, I think you agree with me that those folks who are ignorant of the faith and of baptism should not be baptized.

 

[Standing Up]

Folks, she capitalized Church, IOW EO. Not all born-again believers attend EO.

still funny

 

[BobRyan]

We no longer worship in Jerusalem. That makes us (kata-holos) catholic.

.

Not according to the Roman Catholic Church - that denies open communion to non-Catholics.

Communion has always been closed. That is not something that Rome made up.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Communion has always be closed to exclude fellow Christians - fellow Catholics?

Really?

Bible support please.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

We no longer worship in Jerusalem. That makes us (kata-holos) catholic.

.

Not according to the Roman Catholic Church - that denies open communion to non-Catholics.

Union, being the root of communion, says that we all believe as one. This is not true, unfortunately. Just as I wouldn't deign to receive communion in your church, were I to go there, you should, of your own free will, not desire to receive it in mine.

Fellow Christian - fellow Catholic - but not... "Fellow believer"??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Im guessing by the baptized in quotes your implying only born again Christians are baptized. Anyways "Not all baptized believers attend the Church" im very confused because the Church were both referring to is the people right?Not a organization...

Yes. The Church is a body of believers with Christ as the head .And yes it is my belief that baptism and being born again are one and the same.

Individually we are not the Church.

 

[Targaryen]

Communion has always be closed to exclude fellow Christians - fellow Catholics?

Really?

Bible support please.

in Christ,

Bob

Doctrine, tradition and practice Bob. Not exactly biblical. Of course you understand all that non-biblical stuff already.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Fellow Christian - fellow Catholic - but not... "Fellow believer"??

in Christ,

Bob

Dear Bob,

We are Christian upon believing that "Christ is the Son of God".

That is the Ancient and first creed of Christian belief.

Upon stating that, a person (or an entire family) was baptized.

A baptized believer was then trained in Christianity. Normally the parents if it were a family.

And finally allowed to partake in what is known as the liturgy of the believers, which is a closed door service of which there are many.

Mat 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Mat 25:10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

In the liturgy of the believers is the "Anaphora" prayers, where Christians ask that The Holy Spirit descend and change the bread and wine offered into the body and blood of Christ, which is then distributed at the hands of those leading the "Anaphora" prayers.
Anaphora - OrthodoxWiki

Act 14:27
And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

1Co 14:16
Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

While some might say it's being exclusionary, we think of it as "Christian's in training". The individual who is untrained is what we today call a catechumen, they are prayed for fully by the Church, even so much as to be buried with full Christian rites if one should die before completion. (This is in the day before bibles and training a Christian could take a while.)

One who is not fully trained is still a Christian upon their profession of faith in Christ as the son of God, but not fully "in" The Church.

I hope that helps. No need to feel excluded.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Dear Bob,

We are Christian upon believing that "Christ is the Son of God".

That is the Ancient and first creed of Christian belief.

Upon stating that, a person (or an entire family) was baptized.

A baptized believer was then trained in Christianity. Normally the parents if it were a family.

And finally allowed to partake in what is known as the liturgy of the believers, which is a closed door service of which there are many.



In the liturgy of the believers is the "Anaphora" prayers, where Christians ask that The Holy Spirit descend and change the bread and wine offered into the body and blood of Christ, which is then distributed at the hands of those leading the "Anaphora" prayers.
Anaphora - OrthodoxWiki



While some might say it's being exclusionary, we think of it as "Christian's in training". The individual who is untrained is what we today call a catechumen, they are prayed for fully by the Church, even so much as to be buried with full Christian rites if one should die before completion. (This is in the day before bibles and training a Christian could take a while.)

One who is not fully trained is still a Christian upon their profession of faith in Christ as the son of God, but not fully "in" The Church.

I hope that helps. No need to feel excluded.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

At what point would you consider them to be out from under the governor of the law?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

At what point would you consider them to be out from under the governor of the law?

Is the question about excommunication?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Is the question about excommunication?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

No it's about inclusion.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

No it's about inclusion.

Then I don't understand the question.

How would the created ever be non-subject to the creator?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Then I don't understand the question.

How would the created ever be non-subject to the creator?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

The understanding that I get from your post is that those who are still in the 'milk' of the word are not in the doors with those who are partaking of the 'meat'
Yet according to Hebrews those who have gone on past the milk have gone on to become teachers of the word.
I was wondering what criteria your religion places upon those to partake behind closed doors as you say.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The understanding that I get from your post is that those who are still in the 'milk' of the word are not in the doors with those who are partaking of the 'meat'
Yet according to Hebrews those who have gone on past the milk have gone on to become teachers of the word.
I was wondering what criteria your religion places upon those to partake behind closed doors as you say.

I think you're asking me what is the "catechism" of The Church. What is it "that is taught" in order to be included. Correct?

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Catechism

In simple terms; the correct understanding of the "Nicene Constantinople Creed".

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I think you're asking me what is the "catechism" of The Church. What is it "that is taught" in order to be included. Correct?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

I suppose but I don't suppose I have a lifetime to learn or relearn all that right now since it seems to be a long process from what you were describing.
There are many words that are used to describe the same thing and often the confusion is that the doctrine behind same words can be totally different also.
I think it'll take the Day of the Lord to sort the confusion.

Communion in our churches are for those who believe and don't exclude professing Christians even those who are new believers

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I suppose but I don't suppose I have a lifetime to learn or relearn all that right now since it seems to be a long process from what you were describing.
There are many words that are used to describe the same thing and often the confusion is that the doctrine behind same words can be totally different also.
I think it'll take the Day of the Lord to sort the confusion.

Not really. You know most of it already.

Look this over: Orthodox Catechism

Most of the time these days we learn it very quickly and we spend a year attending services in order to immerse ourselves and make sure we're not making a mistake in coming into communion with these beliefs.

The Gospel of Righteousness!

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Communion in our churches are for those who believe and don't exclude professing Christians even those who are new believers

What does communion mean in your faith?

For us; we attempt to keep people from condemning themselves by training them first.

Mat 22:11-13
And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

What does communion mean in your faith?

For us; we attempt to keep people from condemning themselves by training them first.


God be gracious to me a sinner.

training to come to the throne of grace to conscientiously continue in unstained garments. That is the crux of the NT and what the NT preaches the most on and is what the pulpits should also be spending most time on since the bible does. Psalms and Proverbs make for great teaching tools which is what your litergy is composed of is it not?

Communion is recieving the life giving spirit

John 6:35Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
His flesh is life. As the lamb of God He feeds and redeems, before the fall as the tree of life he was just for feeding on. Then in dying for us He gave His flesh so that we could have life. Blood is also necessary for redemption.Seperating the flesh and blood in verse 54 clearly means His death.
John 6:47
Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
John 1:12
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Verse 56 is the resurrected life of those who believe in Him.
By eating we are taking Him in as nourishment for the new creation for the new way of life.
John 14:19-20
Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
vs 62 involves His ascention which followed redemption as proof His work had been completed.
Hebrews 1:3b
... After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
Wherefore He has now become the Spirit v 63 who gives life and speaks in spirit and life.
1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
As the Spirit He is the the life supply. Recieving (believing) Him as the crucified and resurrected savior, the lifegiving Spirit comes into us to impart eternal life. We recieve (believe) the Lord Jesus but we get the Holy Spirit who gives us life.
__________________