When "The Church" became catholic.

[Targaryen]

yes, they did. But it wasn't a change within the Church but a change away from the Jewish understanding of things. It's important to understand that the Church was a new creation, not a continuation of the old ways.

In the early days the Christians continued to meet in the Temple as well as in houses, but they were a separate group from the Jews of their day and were often tossed out of the temples for their beliefs.

I know, I've debated ideas of the house church era Christians that have gotten lost in the shuffle in other threads before, I just wished to use this point to elude to the fact, our understanding and for lack of a better term, progressive revelation of the spiritual life in Christ and how we respond to the world around us has evolved throughout the centuries since the events of Acts.

 

[Targaryen]

See we do agree on some things.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Never actually doubted that my friend

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Honestly, does doing the same thing a different way make someone apostate? That seems silly to me. If someone is doing communion with dixie cups, purple kool-aid, smashed up ritz crackers on paper plates.. is it not communion to some people? Why? They are still doing communion.

Let me ask you this.

What is done with what remains (leftovers etc) after such a communion is complete?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[pdudgeon]

Um... how long have you been here sister?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

eleven months less than you have been here. Next question?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Ok.

So for the baptist specifically.

Baptism being withheld for the reason of age. Whole families were baptized regardless of age.

Baptism often not in the name of The Father, and The Son and The Holy Spirit.

Baptism being relegated to being only an outward sign of inner faith.

These are the things that make a baptist baptism non-catholic.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

The baptist belief is that a person must willingly come to Christ. Nobody can make that decision for them. A priest cannot invoke God to baptize the person without their consent. God cannot be strong-armed into a person's life. It is about the freedom of choosing Him. He gave us the choice. We view baby baptism as invalid because a baby cannot make that decision yet. it does not answer the question of what happens to babies when they die or people of lesser mental capacity for sure, but I can only leave that up to God.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I have missed your posting brother. Glad to see you back. Now I can be more mellow and let you say it like it is.

Pray for me koreia!

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[pdudgeon]

I know, I've debated ideas of the house church era Christians that have gotten lost in the shuffle in other threads before, I just wished to use this point to elude to the fact, our understanding and for lack of a better term, progressive revelation of the spiritual life in Christ and how we respond to the world around us has evolved throughout the centuries since the events of Acts.

certainly life has changed. But the basics of Christian life, belief, and practice were laid out for us in the NT. No matter how our lives change, God remains the same.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Let me ask you this.

What is done with what remains (leftovers etc) after such a communion is complete?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Usually we eat it or throw it away. What is Christ's body and blood is what the person is holding in their hand in the ceremony, not whats in the bottle or on the dish.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The baptist belief is that a person must willingly come to Christ. Nobody can make that decision for them. A priest cannot invoke God to baptize the person without their consent. God cannot be strong-armed into a person's life. It is about the freedom of choosing Him. He gave us the choice. We view baby baptism as invalid because a baby cannot make that decision yet. it does not answer the question of what happens to babies when they die or people of lesser mental capacity for sure, but I can only leave that up to God.

You are correct that is what they believe.

It's also terribly incorrect.

Show me the biblical example of this teaching please. That baptism was withheld.

The idea is totally counter to the historical facts of Christian life.

I'll be out for a while.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Usually we eat it or throw it away. What is Christ's body and blood is what the person is holding in their hand in the ceremony, not whats in the bottle or on the dish.

Baptist do not teach that Christ is there. In fact that is a direct contradiction to the Baptist confession of faith. (corrected)

and

We do not throw away Christ.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Pray for me koreia!

God be gracious to me a sinner.

I will. Pray for me. I was just a bit too blunt on another thread. I'm a bit short with words today.

Almighty God, Who delivered Your people from the bondage of the adversary, and through Your Son cast down Satan like lightning, deliver us also from every influence of unclean spirits. Command Satan to depart far from us by the power of Your only begotten Son. Rescue us from demonic imaginings and darkness. Fill us with the light of the Holy Spirit that we may be guarded against all snares of crafty demons. Grant that an angel will always go before us and lead us to the path of righteousness all the days of our lives, to the honor of Your glorious Name, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I will. Pray for me. I was just a bit too blunt on another thread. I'm a bit short with words today.

Almighty God, Who delivered Your people from the bondage of the adversary, and through Your Son cast down Satan like lightning, deliver us also from every influence of unclean spirits. Command Satan to depart far from us by the power of Your only begotten Son. Rescue us from demonic imaginings and darkness. Fill us with the light of the Holy Spirit that we may be guarded against all snares of crafty demons. Grant that an angel will always go before us and lead us to the path of righteousness all the days of our lives, to the honor of Your glorious Name, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, now and forever. Amen.

Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and save us. Amen.

I'm back for a while.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

What is Christ's body and blood is what the person is holding in their hand in the ceremony...

I am glad to see this part, in your personal belief.

Wisdom.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

eleven months less than you have been here. Next question?

Hang around in GT more often. The point being that these things are stated here often.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Is your concern that the challenge to the formality makes a person apostate? I do not think it is, because people do not always have those luxuries.

The luxury of... water?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

As a former Southern Baptist I can confirm the following.

Baptists practice believer's baptism and the Lord's Supper (communion) as the two acts of faith-obedience to the example and commands given by Christ for Christians. Most Baptists call them "ordinances" (meaning "obedience to a command that Christ has given us") instead of "sacraments" (activities God uses to impart salvation or a means of grace to the participant). Therefore, historic Baptist theology considers that no saving grace is conveyed by either ordinance and that original sin is not washed away in baptism. Baptists have traditionally believed that they are symbols.

Do not think that I am negating a baptist's salvation. The EO teach that we are to be blameless and righteous before The Lord. We all must live the life, regardless of belief and loss of understanding. In this way, the whole world may come to salvation, and through no other gate than Christ, even if they do not know HIS Holy name.

God measures hearts. Joy to the world!

If one desires to be a member of the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, then we are essentially asking to be taught the way of Christ and The Apostles as it was given to "The Church" as a whole to maintain until HIS return. This "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic" way does not change in dogma.

We hunger and thirst for knowledge of God. And "The Church" is here to feed us.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

The luxury of... water?

I was thinking of communion more than baptism... of course you'd be surprised how many places where clean water IS a luxury.

The water doesn't change the person's heart in the least bit, but it can help if the person believes it will.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I was thinking of communion more than baptism... of course you'd be surprised how many places where clean water IS a luxury.

The water doesn't change the person's heart in the least bit, but it can help if the person believes it will.

I'm addressing that last sentence only. How do you know this to be true?As a baptist I didn't believe that. I was taught that but i saw something in baptisms that was undeniable. Not always but often. The same with communion. i was taught it was nothing but obedience but I saw a different result in my self and many others.

 

[CaDan]

"The Church" is catholic, orthodox and visible.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

The Church is

One
Holy
Apostolic

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The Church is

One
Holy
Apostolic

Where have you been?

God be gracious to me a sinner.