When "The Church" became catholic.

[Tzaousios]

Elimination of the RCC, the Anglicans and the Baptists from being 'in the church' does have it's protocol issues doesn't it?

Are you proposing a functional type of Universalism? I think that is against CF rules as well. You need to go to the Unorthodox Theology forum.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You are correct.

Here's the good part. It can all be repented of... and forgiven.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

And the point being made is that anyone who professes to be a Christian and part of the catholic church, but willfully chooses to live in a condition of sin (and there are a multitude of sins) is, in reality, only making a hollow profession of faith and is not a Christian nor a member of the catholic church. Moreover, any branch of Christendom which finds itself in the same position regarding embracing sin has therefore divorced itself from the catholic church.

True repentance can restore the sinner(s) to Christ and His church.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

How about a denomination that has changed the meaning of something else, such as Baptism? They too have also left the catholic Church.

Or how about those who have dismissed communion?

These are Christian dogma.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

OOO as a baptist.. I wish to understand the orthodox view. I'll give my view when I see it.

 

[squint]

Are you proposing a functional type of Universalism?

If loving my fellow believers as myself is against the rules here, call me GUILTY AS CHARGED!!!

Adherence to and belief in the Nicence Creed is supposed to be sufficient to post here and to keep the heresy bombs from flying from what I recall.

I doubt there are too many sects that can officially tolerate that as the only measure however, if they are allowed to speak truthfully.

So when they are not allowed...what do we expect to hear?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Yes that is indeed recorded, however. As I've stated, the OT laws are no longer upheld in force by Christians. If so, then we'd still be practising the kosher diet, or building Temples to measure cubit for cubit the design God laid out in the Torah.

Practises changed quite a bit even in the first years of the Apostles spreading the gospel. Acts not only records the changing of the prohibition on "unclean foods" in Acts 10 but even the process of who could be admitted into the church had changed with the baptizing of the Ethopian in Acts 8. Remember both were sins in the Jewish way of thinking and both had changed how the church operated.

Nobody changed what God has called an abomination, nobody even attempted to reason that way until this past half century. The argument doesn't stand the test of time.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

OOO as a baptist.. I wish to understand the orthodox view. I'll give my view when I see it.

I was raised Southern Baptist. I stayed there until I was 26.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Please don't hate God.

Are you seriously invoking God in order to defend your consistent refusal to differentiate between the possessive pronoun and the contraction?

 

[Targaryen]

How about a denomination that has changed the meaning of something else, such as Baptism? They too have also left the catholic Church.

Or how about those who have dismissed communion?

These are Christian dogma.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

To me that is a much more serious charge for leaving the catholic sense of the church.

But I guess, this point would require a bit more expansion to determine what would be changing a sacrament. If you would expand upon this point please?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

And the point being made is that anyone who professes to be a Christian and part of the catholic church, but willfully chooses to live in a condition of sin (and there are a multitude of sins) is, in reality, only making a hollow profession of faith and is not a Christian nor a member of the catholic church. Moreover, any branch of Christendom which finds itself in the same position regarding embracing sin has therefore divorced itself from the catholic church.

True repentance can restore the sinner(s) to Christ and His church.

Beautiful!

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I was raised Southern Baptist. I stayed there until I was 26.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Well I still want to know what is the orthodox view so see what baptist churches are deviating from in your view.

 

[pdudgeon]

Yes that is indeed recorded, however. As I've stated, the OT laws are no longer upheld in force by Christians. If so, then we'd still be practising the kosher diet, or building Temples to measure cubit for cubit the design God laid out in the Torah.

Practises changed quite a bit even in the first years of the Apostles spreading the gospel. Acts not only records the changing of the prohibition on "unclean foods" in Acts 10 but even the process of who could be admitted into the church had changed with the baptizing of the Ethopian in Acts 8. Remember both were sins in the Jewish way of thinking and both had changed how the church operated.

yes, they did. But it wasn't a change within the Church but a change away from the Jewish understanding of things. It's important to understand that the Church was a new creation, not a continuation of the old ways.

In the early days the Christians continued to meet in the Temple as well as in houses, but they were a separate group from the Jews of their day and were often tossed out of the temples for their beliefs.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

To me that is a much more serious charge for leaving the catholic sense of the church.

But I guess, this point would require a bit more expansion to determine what would be changing a sacrament. If you would expand upon this point please?

Simple, how about those who preach a "baptism of The Spirit" and totally dismiss water baptism as being anything effectual?

They have left the catholic Church.

God be gracious to me sinner.

 

[pdudgeon]

Simple, how about those who preach a "baptism of The Spirit" and totally dismiss water baptism as being anything effectual?

They have left the catholic Church.

God be gracious to me sinner.

got any evidence that you can cite that those who preach a baptism of the Spirit actually do dismiss water baptism as being effectual?

Enquiring minds wanna know..........

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Simple, how about those who preach a "baptism of The Spirit" and totally dismiss water baptism as being anything effectual?

They have left the catholic Church.

God be gracious to me sinner.

I have missed your posting brother. Glad to see you back. Now I can be more mellow and let you say it like it is.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Simple, how about those who preach a "baptism of The Spirit" and totally dismiss water baptism as being anything effectual?

They have left the catholic Church.

God be gracious to me sinner.

Is your concern that the challenge to the formality makes a person apostate? I do not think it is, because people do not always have those luxuries.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Well I still want to know what is the orthodox view so see what baptist churches are deviating from in your view.

Ok.

So for the baptist specifically.

Baptism being withheld for the reason of age. Whole families were baptized regardless of age.

Baptism often not in the name of The Father, and The Son and The Holy Spirit.

Baptism being relegated to being only an outward sign of inner faith.

These are the things that make a baptist baptism non-catholic.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Targaryen]

Simple, how about those who preach a "baptism of The Spirit" and totally dismiss water baptism as being anything effectual?

They have left the catholic Church.

God be gracious to me sinner.

Ahh yes, to me that's more of a breech in the catholic manner to me. As you've seen the "liberal" point of my screen name in practise with our first part of the debate. The third part of the name means as much to me...the big C catholic understanding of the sacramental life of the church.

While I may share common threads and common beliefs with others such as the Quakers or the Salvation Army, the baptism of the spirit or no sacramental life in the chruch at all goes against the core of the catholic ideal.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

got any evidence that you can cite that those who preach a baptism of the Spirit actually do dismiss water baptism as being effectual?

Enquiring minds wanna know..........

Um... how long have you been here sister?

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Honestly, does doing the same thing a different way make someone apostate? That seems silly to me. If someone is doing communion with dixie cups, purple kool-aid, smashed up ritz crackers on paper plates.. is it not communion to some people? Why? They are still doing communion.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Ahh yes, to me that's more of a breech in the catholic manner to me. As you've seen the "liberal" point of my screen name in practise with our first part of the debate. The third part of the name means as much to me...the big C catholic understanding of the sacramental life of the church.

While I may share common threads and common beliefs with others such as the Quakers or the Salvation Army, the baptism of the spirit or no sacramental life in the chruch at all goes against the core of the catholic ideal.

See we do agree on some things.

God be gracious to me a sinner.