What to do, since the gaslight is over?

[Pommer]

By that, I mean that people who had concerns about the obvious issues with universal mail-in voting,

There is no “universal” mail-in voting; ballots only go to voters who have bothered to register to exercise their franchise, (several states’ systems are vote “only” by mail, but the above applies as well).

or states changing election rules in violation of their states' constitution

This happened in my Commonwealth (Pennsylvania) where several Republicans petitioned the state courts to throw out vast swathes of votes because the law they (in most cases, “themselves” (since it had been passed in 2019)), had written, authorizing this method, by arguing that they were incompetent at doing their own jobs.
(My recollection was that the court said it would have been a convincing argument had they filed suit before the outcome of the 2020 election became apparent, rather than trying to use their ineptness to get the votes for “the other guy” tossed.

had their concerns "lumped in" the same category as the Alex Jones "gay frogs and lizard people were bringing suitcases full of fake votes in the middle of the night" concerns as if both were equally silly and dismissible.

They’re busting Alex up and shutting him down!

 

[Merrill]

You vote for either the felon who tried to overthrow our democracy or the old man. Those are your choices.

two false statements in one sentence lol

1. Trump interfered with an election, but did not try to "overthrow our democracy"--that is complete nonsense. The Jan 6th riots were not an armed insurrection.

2. Biden is not simply an "old man" --he is sick and incompetent, likely suffering from vascular dementia or Alzheimers. The WSJ had an editorial today which pointed out that Biden's age and health problems are not the only issue: the president has made terrible decisions while in office, and his selection of Harris as his running mate has led to a national crisis--because the Dems can't replace him, even if his health deteriorates

 

[ThatRobGuy]

There is no “universal” mail-in voting; ballots only go to voters who have bothered to register to exercise their franchise, (several states’ systems are vote “only” by mail, but the above applies as well).

Many states actually did implement it in 2020 (that did not previously have it in 2016)

Voting by mail in a pandemic: A state-by-state scorecard | Brookings

Ranking all 50 states on pandemic voting preparedness.

www.brookings.edu

They’re busting Alex up and shutting him down!

I don't have any love for Alex, so he's experiencing the consequences of his statements lol.

But my point was that people who have concerns about large scale mail-in voting or "late in the game" rule changes (that happen to favor one party more than the other) are different than someone who's claiming "Biden's henchmen are sneaking into the polling center with suitcases full of phony ballots to help Biden win" or "Hugo Chavez voting machines" (or whatever the pillow guy was talking about)



Concerns about a hastily thrown together mail-in voting system aren't unreasonable.

And it would be more gaslighting for everyone to go along with the "mail-in is just as secure and just as accurate as in-person voting", replace "voting" with just about any other system or transaction, and people would realize how flimsy that idea is.


If a state/company implemented "mail-in drug test results"
-- They mail the person a drug testing kit
-- The person fills out the stuff themselves
-- They mail in the results to the clinic
-- No witness signature is required

Would anyone say, with a straight face, that the system isn't more prone to certain "shenanigans"?, or that it's just as accurate as the traditional way where you go to the clinic, take the drug test under a certain level of supervision, and they analyze the results?

"Well, we couldn't find any irregularities or evidence of people fudging the test"...well yeah, of course... how would one find any irregularities within that framework?


Now, to be clear, do I think there was any compelling evidence to suggest that any of it would've changed the end result? No...I think there was enough public polling and sampling ahead of time to suggest that Biden winning was the predictable outcome, people had enough of Trump by 2020 and were ready to cut him loose.

But to pretend that "shenanigans" were limited to just the cases they were able to catch would be naive thinking.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The so-called felony conviction is evidence of the lawfare. However, I have no doubts that the felony will be overturned by the appeal process.

I checked with Lawfare, they seem to disagree:

Appellate Issues in the Trump Hush Money Case: The Extraordinary Ordinariness of Justice Merchan’s Adjudication

 

[BPPLEE]

I checked with Lawfare, they seem to disagree:

Appellate Issues in the Trump Hush Money Case: The Extraordinary Ordinariness of Justice Merchan’s Adjudication

Here are Trump’s top three arguments for appeal after guilty verdict in hush money trial

Former President Donald Trump has three key issues he can argue on appeal to overturn his conviction in his New York hush money trial, including that prosecutors never identified an underlying felony to the resurrected misdemeanor bookkeeping charges that had lapsed.

www.washingtontimes.com

 

[Hans Blaster]

Here are Trump’s top three arguments for appeal after guilty verdict in hush money trial

Former President Donald Trump has three key issues he can argue on appeal to overturn his conviction in his New York hush money trial, including that prosecutors never identified an underlying felony to the resurrected misdemeanor bookkeeping charges that had lapsed.

www.washingtontimes.com

If Trump had stipulated to his affair sexual encounter with Ms. Daniels there would have been little for her to testify about. I'm not quite sure what the Moonie Times is getting on about with *2* character issues. As for the "underlying crime" that was covered by Lawfare:

In lay terms, the jury convicted Trump for falsifying documents to conceal a conspiracy to unlawfully promote his presidential candidacy. In more technical parlance, he was convicted on 34 counts of violating New York Penal Law § 175.10, which makes it a felony to cause the entry of a business record that is falsified to commit, aid, or conceal another crime. (the “object offense”) The object offense is New York Election Law § 17-152, which makes it a crime to conspire to promote a political candidate through “unlawful means.” The prosecution argued three “unlawful means”: violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA), falsification of other documents, and violations of state tax law.

as to the jury instructions related:

Justice Merchan instructed the jury that it had to find unanimously and beyond a reasonable doubt the “elements” of the § 175.10 offense and the intent to participate in the § 17-152 conspiracy. Consistent with a standard distinction between elements of a crime and the “means” for satisfying those elements, he instructed that—although the jury needed to unanimously find the existence of unlawful means to promote Trump’s presidential candidacy—it didn’t need unanimous agreement on what those means were.

In a very standard fashion.

Could the appellate court rule in Trump's favor? Of course, but it is not a forgone conclusion by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The dozen or so riots were not peaceful.

500.

Last I saw an article claiming 95% of the protests were "peaceful" I looked at the math they used to determine this. It was around 500 riots.

Shocking.

More of a "let it burn!" sort of guy?

Let what burn?

Was there really a picture of a Confederate flag at a protest of small business owners?

The small business protests that I recall reading about included one. It's entirely debatable whether or not the flag was indeed at the protest. I agree it's trivial, but when a news media company wants to paint a small business owner's attempts to save their business as "white supremacy" those flags really help.

When and where was this?

Redirect Notice

Well no matter, if all their concerns were so sumarily dismissed by ... welll, someone no doubt on the Left somewhere sometime then obviously the convicted felon is the way to go!

It's the only choice being presented. It should be obvious even to the die hard Biden supporters that Joe can't plan a picnic. What exactly would anyone be voting for in the Democratic Party?

Aren't you the least bit angry with the Democratic Party? This isn't news to them...they've all been aware of this situation since 2021-2022. They didn't have to run Biden...they chose to. What's he running on? Staying alive for 4 years?

Every president that has run for reelection in my lifetime is at least a war criminal. I've tried looking up specifically what Trump was convicted on....but details are a bit hard to come by. Did they catch him coordinating with Russia? Perhaps he's been funding a genocide somewhere? Has he set up multiple shell companies to acquire cash for favors using his son as an intermediary? Has he shared highly sensitive classified docs with completely unqualified people? Oh I know....he used the power of the federal government to pursue defeat his political opponents?

Honestly, I haven't paid close attention and the 3 articles I read didn't mention the exact charges...as if that might diminish their seriousness....

What did they finally get to stick?

Did he now? Heavens to Betsy!!

Generally speaking, across most metrics, yes.

 

[Postvieww]

The Colorado case was brought about by Republicans.

In name only.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Whenever I hear someone use the expression "rigged election", I try to drill down into what they mean by that...

Because "those people claim the election was rigged" has become a blanket expression used to describe a wide array of complaints/concerns ranging from understandable to downright conspiratorial.

And left leaning pundits (I assume intentionally) have done their best to lump them all together as a way of not having to address the concerns that may actually have merit, by portraying them as if they're just as silly as the conspiracy theory ones.

By that, I mean that people who had concerns about the obvious issues with universal mail-in voting, or states changing election rules in violation of their states' constitution had their concerns "lumped in" the same category as the Alex Jones "gay frogs and lizard people were bringing suitcases full of fake votes in the middle of the night" concerns as if both were equally silly and dismissible.

Alex Jones and his gay frogs may prove to be the Nostrodamus of our time.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If Trump had stipulated to his affair sexual encounter with Ms. Daniels there would have been little for her to testify about. I'm not quite sure what the Moonie Times is getting on about with *2* character issues. As for the "underlying crime" that was covered by Lawfare:

I can't believe this sentence begins with "In lay terms....:

In lay terms, the jury convicted Trump for falsifying documents to conceal a conspiracy to unlawfully promote his presidential candidacy.

Ok...he falsified some documents regarding where some campaign money went?

Would that be accurate in more lay terms?

as to the jury instructions related:

How about this...

Trump paid Daniels to keep quiet through an intermediary with campaign funds which he subsequently failed to properly document in his campaign finance forms.

Is that close?

 

[BPPLEE]

I can't believe this sentence begins with "In lay terms....:

In lay terms, the jury convicted Trump for falsifying documents to conceal a conspiracy to unlawfully promote his presidential candidacy.

Ok...he falsified some documents regarding where some campaign money went?

Would that be accurate in more lay terms?



How about this...

Trump paid Daniels to keep quiet through an intermediary with campaign funds which he subsequently failed to properly document in his campaign finance forms.

Is that close?

But if he would have made this a campaign expense he could have been prosecuted for that?

 

[FenderTL5]

But if he would have made this a campaign expense he could have been prosecuted for that?

Not if it were properly documented and disclosed.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

What Now that the Gaslighting is Over?

In the famous psychological drama, Gaslight, it took a Scotland Yard detective to prove the heroine had been driven half-mad by a gaslighting husband. All it took for us to see how we had been deceived was a CNN debate. Who was the villain? How much ...

www.americanthinker.com

The white house, and the media, constantly told you not to believe your eyes. The mask is off, now what happens?

I still vote for Biden. Better a fossil than a felon.

 

[Postvieww]

I still vote for Biden. Better a fossil than a felon.

You do realize that the goal all along is to tag Trump with that label by any means necessary so many could use the felon label as a reason to support one who cannot even function in front of a teleprompter.

 

[RoBo1988]

I still vote for Biden. Better a fossil than a felon.

So you support an unknown, unaccountable, oligarchy to run the government?

 

[FenderTL5]

So you support an unknown, unaccountable, oligarchy to run the government?

Ha, the known unaccoutable oligarchy of the GOP is preferred?
or is this just the same sentment as (an old expression): ".. better the devil you know.."?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

You do realize that the goal all along is to tag Trump with that label by any means necessary so many could use the felon label as a reason to support one who cannot even function in front of a teleprompter.

Do you realize that even if he wasn’t a felon and Biden was so feeble that he doesn’t know the difference between a dog and a cloud, I’d still be voting for Biden?

Since I have no faith in either completing a four year term due to their age, I view this as a battle of the VPs and one who supports the policies of Biden is infinitely better than one who supports the policies of Trump. Last time, the only thing that prevented this country from falling apart is that Trump’s VP, despite being a man on the opposite of the spectrum on pretty much all of my values, had a keen sense of morality and ethics and would not play along with Trump’s attempt to overturn the vote. Pence stood between us and a dictatorship. Trump will not be dumb enough to appoint somebody who values the country over him again.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

So you support an unknown, unaccountable, oligarchy to run the government?

No, I already said I was voting for Biden.

 

[Postvieww]

Trump paid Daniels to keep quiet through an intermediary with campaign funds which he subsequently failed to properly document in his campaign finance forms.

Could you show or link to proof that the payment came from funds donated to the campaign?

Unless I have missed something Trump made the payments from his personal family account. It was the massaging of the law that Bragg used to say Trump's own personal money was a campaign contribution to his own campaign so this farce of a case could move forward.

I have seen several people post that campaign money was used but I would like to see the evidence for that.

 

[FenderTL5]

Could you show or link to proof that the payment came from funds donated to the campaign?

Unless I have missed something Trump made the payments from his personal family account. It was the massaging of the law that Bragg used to say Trump's own personal money was a campaign contribution to his own campaign so this farce of a case could move forward.

I have seen several people post that campaign money was used but I would like to see the evidence for that.

Just replay a few of his 2016 campaign speeches, he self funded, "didn't need anyone else's money.." remember?