What must we do for the forgiveness of sins?

[Alithis]

Hello Alithis.

You did not deny the primary doctrine, the death and resurrection of the Christ. Yet you attempted to confuse this doctrine of first importance, with matters of secondary importance, your personal achievements. Either the death and the resurrection of the Christ is the first doctrine, or it is not the first doctrine.

There is far too much confusion in the Christian world, the principle reason for anyone's salvation is simply believing in Jesus Christ. Those who really believe in Jesus, will of course pursue the Christian lifestyle with some vigor. Yet the Christian life choices (e.g, repentance) are not the actual basis for one's salvation.

Acts 2:21
AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.

Romans 10:13
For "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

What is the primary and first doctrine?

What is the definition of a Christian?


















You mentioned this statement.

Those who truly believe, and what is it that they believe?

Is not a personal obedience to Christ, merely the result of being forgiven in the first place?

You are either saved because you believe in Jesus Christ, or you are not saved on that basis.

to b

Hello Alithis.

You did not deny the primary doctrine, the death and resurrection of the Christ. Yet you attempted to confuse this doctrine of first importance, with matters of secondary importance, your personal achievements. Either the death and the resurrection of the Christ is the first doctrine, or it is not the first doctrine.

There is far too much confusion in the Christian world, the principle reason for anyone's salvation is simply believing in Jesus Christ. Those who really believe in Jesus, will of course pursue the Christian lifestyle with some vigor. Yet the Christian life choices (e.g, repentance) are not the actual basis for one's salvation.

Acts 2:21
AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.

Romans 10:13
For "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

What is the primary and first doctrine?

What is the definition of a Christian?


















You mentioned this statement.

Those who truly believe, and what is it that they believe?

Is not a personal obedience to Christ, merely the result of being forgiven in the first place?

You are either saved because you believe in Jesus Christ, or you are not saved on that basis.

well let's ignore the obvious verses your throwing around cherry picked out of their context .and cut to the chase of the consequence of your presentation.
according to your non contextual presentation - demons are saved.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Many things that start out well go sour. I'm sure you know that. The Reformation occurred at the point in time that it did for the reason that the Western church was far gone into corruption in the late Middle Ages. The Reformers pointed, for a justification of their concerns, to the Apostolic Church and to Scripture. Why do you suppose that was? It wasn't because they were opposed to what the Apostolic and Ancient churches had taught, but what had changed after that time.

But as Gamaliel said in Acts 5:35-39 (KJV)

Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Now, if a Jew and Pharisee can see the truth, that the Apostles were not foundering, despite persecution, then it should be evident that if the evil, demonic, worldly Roman church was not guided by the Holy Spirit, it could not have lasted through the Roman persecutions up to 312 AD, much less make it 2000 years. The Holy Spirit (you remember Him, don't you? On of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity? God?) would not have allowed it to go forward even as far as the persecution of Nero!

Please try to remember that the Pre-Reformation Churches Have been through not one, but many persecutions to get to where we are today. We have been attacked by Rome, by Persia, by Muslims, and by Reformers, all trying (and failing) to tear down an edifice that was built by the hand of God.

Except the LORD build the house, they labor in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain. (Ps 127:1 KJV)

The inverse is also true. If the Lord doesn't want the house (building, business, country, religion, etc.), it will fail, true?

So, why does the Roman Church prevail? It can't be all the corruption and money, because if God doesn't want it to continue, it will fail. For example--Jim Bakker not only failed (after living the life of the rich and obnoxious) but ended up in jail. Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, Chuck Swindoll, and all of the other "confess it and possess it" prosperity preachers FAILED, didn't they? What do any of them have left? Jerry Falwell is dead, So is Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, while still alive, has been passed over after his 15 minutes of fame (and the prostitution scandal). Chuck Swindoll has also faded into obscurity.

However, Ss. Peter, Paul, Thomas, John, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Elvis (just making sure you're listening) and so on down throughout history for two millennia have had their lives immortalized because of the Roman Church. I'll take a bet on if you can name one person that was born is 1181 AD I can, Giovanni di Pietro di Bernardone, also known as St, Francis. How about a man in Ireland that was born in 484 AD? Look up St. Brendan on the internet. Outside of the liquor, there are many schools, colleges, hospitals, etc named for him. Why, because a group of his followers venerated him, and he was canonized by a local bishop in Ireland. (Note: it was not even done by an old man in Rome)

 

[Alithis]

Hello Alithis.

You did not deny the primary doctrine, the death and resurrection of the Christ. Yet you attempted to confuse this doctrine of first importance, with matters of secondary importance, your personal achievements. Either the death and the resurrection of the Christ is the first doctrine, or it is not the first doctrine.

There is far too much confusion in the Christian world, the principle reason for anyone's salvation is simply believing in Jesus Christ. Those who really believe in Jesus, will of course pursue the Christian lifestyle with some vigor. Yet the Christian life choices (e.g, repentance) are not the actual basis for one's salvation.

Acts 2:21
AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.

Romans 10:13
For "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

What is the primary and first doctrine?

What is the definition of a Christian?


















You mentioned this statement.

Those who truly believe, and what is it that they believe?

Is not a personal obedience to Christ, merely the result of being forgiven in the first place?

You are either saved because you believe in Jesus Christ, or you are not saved on that basis.

to b

Hello Alithis.

You did not deny the primary doctrine, the death and resurrection of the Christ. Yet you attempted to confuse this doctrine of first importance, with matters of secondary importance, your personal achievements. Either the death and the resurrection of the Christ is the first doctrine, or it is not the first doctrine.

There is far too much confusion in the Christian world, the principle reason for anyone's salvation is simply believing in Jesus Christ. Those who really believe in Jesus, will of course pursue the Christian lifestyle with some vigor. Yet the Christian life choices (e.g, repentance) are not the actual basis for one's salvation.

Acts 2:21
AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.

Romans 10:13
For "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

What is the primary and first doctrine?

What is the definition of a Christian?


















You mentioned this statement.

Those who truly believe, and what is it that they believe?

Is not a personal obedience to Christ, merely the result of being forgiven in the first place?

You are either saved because you believe in Jesus Christ, or you are not saved on that basis.

well let's ignore the obvious verses your throwing around cherry picked out of their context .and cut to the chase of the consequence of your presentation.
according to your non contextual presentation - demons are saved.

let's see then . a man hears the gospel
and he believes Jesus is true.
according to you he need do nothing else he is now forgiven . he believes . so he says.then he goes and steals a car drives to a brothal and sleeps with prostitutes. while engaged in this behaviour the Lord returns..
-I assure you. he is neither forgiven nor saved.
the scripture Is not singular in its instructions on how one is saved and warns those about the wrath of God coming to those who don't Obey the gospel .and Jesus said.. repentance for the forgivness of sin is to be preached.
so I agree with him .

 

[klutedavid]

to b

well let's ignore the obvious verses your throwing around cherry picked out of their context .and cut to the chase of the consequence of your presentation.
according to your non contextual presentation - demons are saved.

Hello Alithis.

What a strange statement, demons are saved?

If you check the text, demons believe God is one, believing God is one, is not the Gospel.

I did not cherry pick the quotation, Paul declared the first doctrine in 1 Corinthians 15.

 

[Alithis]

Hello Alithis.

What a strange statement, demons are saved?

If you check the text, demons believe God is one, believing God is one, is not the Gospel.

I did not cherry pick the quotation, Paul declared the first doctrine in 1 Corinthians 15.

he did and he is referring back to the gospel first preached in acts.the same gospel he continually preached .that men must repent and be baptised for the remission of their sin
... the gospel has never stated only believe.
true belief is not just spoken but demonstrated.
this is why there are so many fake believers.they have been taught a fake gospel ,have bypassed repentance ,continue in their sin and will certainly perish in it.

 

[klutedavid]

to b

well let's ignore the obvious verses your throwing around cherry picked out of their context .and cut to the chase of the consequence of your presentation.
according to your non contextual presentation - demons are saved.

let's see then . a man hears the gospel
and he believes Jesus is true.
according to you he need do nothing else he is now forgiven . he believes . so he says.then he goes and steals a car drives to a brothal and sleeps with prostitutes. while engaged in this behaviour the Lord returns..
-I assure you. he is neither forgiven nor saved.
the scripture Is not singular in its instructions on how one is saved and warns those about the wrath of God coming to those who don't Obey the gospel .and Jesus said.. repentance for the forgivness of sin is to be preached.
so I agree with him .

Hello Alithis.

If someone believes in Jesus they are of course saved, that is as long as they continue to believe in Jesus. This is the foundation of the Christian religion. It is about what God has done for us to redeem us, not about what we can do for God.

When a person believes in Jesus they then receive the Holy Spirit, this is the divine seal within.

If one believes in Jesus then they will live according to the commandments that Jesus gave us.
Should a person not live according to the commandments that Jesus gave, then obviously they don't really believe in Jesus.

Utterly simple and obvious, I repeat what I said earlier. No one can be saved by a baptism or a repentance.

Salvation is a free gift granted to those who believe.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

A gift is never free if conditions are attached.

 

[klutedavid]

he did and he is referring back to the gospel first preached in acts.the same gospel he continually preached .that men must repent and be baptised for the remission of their sin
... the gospel has never stated only believe.
true belief is not just spoken but demonstrated.
this is why there are so many fake believers.they have been taught a fake gospel ,have bypassed repentance ,continue in their sin and will certainly perish in it.

Hello Alithis.

The Gospel is all about believing in Jesus.

Here are a few quotations, look for the word, 'believe'.

Matthew 27
42 He saved others; He cannot save Himself. He is the King of Israel; let Him now come down from the
cross, and we will believe in Him.

Mark 1
15 The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.

Mark 16
16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Mark 16
17 These signs will accompany those who have believed in My name

Luke 8
12 Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their
heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Luke 8
13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who
believe in His name.

John 2
11 This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory, and His disciples
believed in Him.

John 2
23 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name.

John 3
15 So that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish.

John 3
18 He who believes in Him is not judged.

John 3
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life.

John 5
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life.

John 6
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

John 6
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes
in Me will never thirst".

John 6
40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have
eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 6
47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 8
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die
in your sins.

John 8
30 As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him.

John 9
36 He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him,
and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.

John 10
26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

John 11
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies."

John 11
26 And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.

John 11
40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

John 12
36 While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.

John 14
29 Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.

John 16
9 Concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

John 20
31 But these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and
that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 2
44 And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common.

Acts 4
4 But many of those who had heard the message believed.

Acts 4
32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul.

Acts 5
14 And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number.

Acts 8
13 Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip.

Acts 9
42 It became known all over Joppa, and many believed in the Lord.

Acts 10
43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives
forgiveness of sins.

Acts 10
45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed.

Acts 11
21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a large number who believed turned to the Lord.

Acts 13
12 Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord.

Acts 13
39 And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through
the Law of Moses.

Acts 13
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had
been appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 14
1 In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number
of people believed.

Acts 14
23 When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them
to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Acts 15
7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days
God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe".

Acts 15
11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

Acts 15
7 That by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Acts 16
31 They said, believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.

Acts 17
12 Therefore many of them believed.

Acts 17
34 But some men joined him and believed.

Acts 18
8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the
Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

Acts 18
27 He greatly helped those who had believed through grace.

Acts 19
4 Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming
after him".

Acts 19
18 Many also of those who had believed kept coming, confessing and disclosing their practices.

Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.

Romans 3
22 Even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe.

Romans 4
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Romans 4
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as
righteousness.

Romans 10
9 That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the
dead, you will be saved. 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he
confesses, resulting in salvation.

Romans 10
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Romans 10
13 Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Romans 10
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Romans 11
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your belief.

1 Corinthians 1
21 God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 15
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which
also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you
believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins
according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day.

Philippians 1
29 For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him.

1 Thessalonians 2
13 For what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

2 Thessalonians 1
10 To be marveled at among all who have believed, for our testimony to you was believed.

1 Timothy 1
16 Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for
eternal life.

 

[Alithis]

But as Gamaliel said in Acts 5:35-39 (KJV)

Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Now, if a Jew and Pharisee can see the truth, that the Apostles were not foundering, despite persecution, then it should be evident that if the evil, demonic, worldly Roman church was not guided by the Holy Spirit, it could not have lasted through the Roman persecutions up to 312 AD, much less make it 2000 years. The Holy Spirit (you remember Him, don't you? On of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity? God?) would not have allowed it to go forward even as far as the persecution of Nero!

Please try to remember that the Pre-Reformation Churches Have been through not one, but many persecutions to get to where we are today. We have been attacked by Rome, by Persia, by Muslims, and by Reformers, all trying (and failing) to tear down an edifice that was built by the hand of God.

Except the LORD build the house, they labor in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain. (Ps 127:1 KJV)

The inverse is also true. If the Lord doesn't want the house (building, business, country, religion, etc.), it will fail, true?

So, why does the Roman Church prevail? It can be all the corruption and money, because if God doesn't want it to continue, it will fail. For example--Jim Bakker not only failed (after living the life of the rich and obnoxious) but ended up in jail. Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, Chuck Swindoll, and all of the other "confess it and possess it" prosperity preachers FAILED, didn't they? What do any of them have left? Jerry Falwell is dead, So is Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, while still alive, has been passed over after his 15 minutes of fame (and the prostitution scandal). Chuck Swindoll has also faded into obscurity.

However, Ss. Peter, Paul, Thomas, John, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Elvis (just making sure you're listening) and so on down throughout history for two millennia have had their lives immortalized because of the Roman Church. I'll take a bet on if you can name one person that was born is 1181 AD I can, Giovanni di Pietro di Bernardone, also known as St, Francis. How about a man in Ireland that was born in 484 AD? Look up St. Brendan on the internet. Outside of the liquor, there are many schools, colleges, hospitals, etc named for him. Why, because a group of his followers venerated him, and he was canonized by a local bishop in Ireland. (Note: it was not even done by an old man in Rome)

wow China has been under the rule of emperors and all sorts for thousands of years too,so by this silly reasoning they must be of God. -rediculous .untill Jesus returns the spirit of this world Is at work decieving the disobedient.. that spirit has been dominating sinful man since eden.
long term standing certainly does Not equate to validation from God.

 

[Alithis]

Hello Alithis.

The Gospel is all about believing in Jesus.

Here are a few quotations, look for the word, 'believe'.

Matthew 27
42 He saved others; He cannot save Himself. He is the King of Israel; let Him now come down from the
cross, and we will believe in Him.

Mark 1
15 The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.

Mark 16
16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Mark 16
17 These signs will accompany those who have believed in My name

Luke 8
12 Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their
heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Luke 8
13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who
believe in His name.

John 2
11 This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory, and His disciples
believed in Him.

John 2
23 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name.

John 3
15 So that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish.

John 3
18 He who believes in Him is not judged.

John 3
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life.

John 5
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life.

John 6
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

John 6
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes
in Me will never thirst".

John 6
40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have
eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 6
47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 8
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die
in your sins.

John 8
30 As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him.

John 9
36 He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him,
and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.

John 10
26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

John 11
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies."

John 11
26 And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.

John 11
40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

John 12
36 While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.

John 14
29 Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.

John 16
9 Concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

John 20
31 But these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and
that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 2
44 And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common.

Acts 4
4 But many of those who had heard the message believed.

Acts 4
32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul.

Acts 5
14 And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number.

Acts 8
13 Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip.

Acts 9
42 It became known all over Joppa, and many believed in the Lord.

Acts 10
43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives
forgiveness of sins.

Acts 10
45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed.

Acts 11
21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a large number who believed turned to the Lord.

Acts 13
12 Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord.

Acts 13
39 And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through
the Law of Moses.

Acts 13
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had
been appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 14
1 In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number
of people believed.

Acts 14
23 When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them
to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Acts 15
7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days
God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe".

Acts 15
11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

Acts 15
7 That by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Acts 16
31 They said, believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.

Acts 17
12 Therefore many of them believed.

Acts 17
34 But some men joined him and believed.

Acts 18
8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the
Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

Acts 18
27 He greatly helped those who had believed through grace.

Acts 19
4 Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming
after him".

Acts 19
18 Many also of those who had believed kept coming, confessing and disclosing their practices.

Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.

Romans 3
22 Even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe.

Romans 4
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Romans 4
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as
righteousness.

Romans 10
9 That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the
dead, you will be saved. 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he
confesses, resulting in salvation.

Romans 10
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Romans 10
13 Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Romans 10
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Romans 11
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your belief.

1 Corinthians 1
21 God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 15
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which
also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you
believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins
according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day.

Philippians 1
29 For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him.

1 Thessalonians 2
13 For what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

2 Thessalonians 1
10 To be marveled at among all who have believed, for our testimony to you was believed.

1 Timothy 1
16 Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for
eternal life.

those scriptures are all true.and change nothing ,a person who believes then obeys and gets baptised for the remission of their sin as instructed.they repent and go God's way.not their own Way.
a Peron that says the believe but does not obey is a fake,neither forgiven nor saved.
Jesus said repentance for the forgiveness of sin is to be preached.- I agree with Him.why you avoid that,I don't know. perhaps it is some sin you love ad don't wish to give up.

 

[Monk Brendan]

wow China has been under the rule of emperors and all sorts for thousands of years too,so by this silly reasoning they must be of God. -rediculous .untill Jesus returns the spirit of this world Is at work decieving the disobedient.. that spirit has been dominating sinful man since eden.
long term standing certainly does Not equate to validation from God.

And how many different dynasties? And the Empire did fall. Pu-yi was the last emperor, and his empire ended in 1908--over a century ago. He died in 1967. The Dynasties in China are listed here. None of them lasted 500 years, much less the 2000 years the Roman Church has existed.

 

[Albion]

So, why does the Roman Church prevail?

I don't know that it has prevailed. It lost a huge chunk of members to the Orthodox Churches, then northern Europe and those countries overseas colonies, and North America to Protestantism. More recently, the church has been undermined by the ravages of secularism which has left countries like Italy (which you'd consider a stronghold of Roman Catholicism even though only 1 in 50 members there attends church) and France (which is a "Post-Christian" society by any reckoning) as nominally Catholic or merely Catholic by culture. Latin America is in even worse shape. There is, in truth, no Christian denomination that has suffered more serious schisms than the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Alithis.

Baptism is an outward sign, a mere symbolic representation of our death and resurrection in Christ.
A water baptism occurs just once in life and is merely an outward rite. It is not the outward things that matter or save, but the deeper inward commitment to Jesus Christ. A baptism of the Holy Spirit, a baptism of the divine fire that burns within us.

God's way.not their own Way.

God's way is in fact believing in Jesus Christ, that is what the New Testament is all about.

a Peron that says the believe but does not obey is a fake,neither forgiven nor saved.

A believer obeys, a non believer cannot obey.

Anyone who calls on the name of Jesus will be saved.

Are you saying that anyone who calls on the name of Jesus may not be saved?

 

[Alithis]

And how many different dynasties? And the Empire did fall. Pu-yi was the last emperor, and his empire ended in 1908--over a century ago. He died in 1967. The Dynasties in China are listed here. None of them lasted 500 years, much less the 2000 years the Roman Church has existed.

Who cares..the point remains..how long an institution stands is ZERO validation .when the lord jesus returns he will return to the mt of olives in israel and be enthroned in jerusalam and utterly destroy that false blasphemous goddess in rome.

 

[Alithis]

You ignore so many scriptures to promote your favorite ones its a bit embarrasing.
God does not instruct men to preform empty rituals.
Jesus told us to baptize but you say its empty rituals..he says also to heal the sick..so your saying that is empty ritual..he says drive out demons.but your saying thats empty ritual..
You will say no you didnt say that. Yet you did.because you pick one if them and declare it empty ritual.. Who are you to annul one part if his word declaring it powerless.

 

[Greg Merrill]

Be sinners.

Christ died for the sins of the whole world. Christ died to save sinners.

The only thing we do to is be sinners. It is God who appropriates the work of Christ by the power of the Spirit through Word and Sacrament, He does it for us, we do nothing.

-CryptoLutheran

According to Jn 1:12 and Ro 10:13; Ac 2:21; Joel 2:32 we must "receive" Jesus as Savior, and call on the name of the Lord in order to be saved and forgiven.

 

[Alithis]

Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

/thread

But he never ONLY said that and nothing else.
So it's dangerously out of context to present it as if it's the only thing he said.

Belief is easily feigned.
It is obedience that proves beliefs sincerity.

 

[redleghunter]

But he never ONLY said that and nothing else.
So it's dangerously out of context to present it as if it's the only thing he said.

Belief is easily feigned.
It is obedience that proves beliefs sincerity.

Is salvation based on our obedience or the Obedience of Jesus Christ?

 

[Albion]

But he never ONLY said that and nothing else.
So it's dangerously out of context to present it as if it's the only thing he said.

Belief is easily feigned.
It is obedience that proves beliefs sincerity.

"proves beliefs sincerity."

OK, "proves."

Just so long as we do not wander into thinking that the obedience earns the sinner salvation or enhances the prospects of that person being saved.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It is obedience that proves beliefs sincerity.

And yet it was those who were the "most obedient" that Jesus condemned as white washed tombs, hypocrites, and as children of hell.

It is just as easy to feign righteousness through works as it is anything else.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[disciple1]

But he never ONLY said that and nothing else.
So it's dangerously out of context to present it as if it's the only thing he said.

Belief is easily feigned.
It is obedience that proves beliefs sincerity.

Isaiah chapter 16 verse 5
In love a throne will be established; in faithfulness a man will sit on it-- one from the house of David-- one who in judging seeks justice and speeds the cause of righteousness.
1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers many sins.