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What must we do for the forgiveness of sins?

Ron Gurley

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Where in copy + paste Scripture (NASB) HERE does it clearly state that:

REPENT/REPENTANCE is a pre-requisite condition of:

A: SALVATION per John 3 as explained in Ephesians 2

B: FORGIVENESS of SIN/SIN(s) per 1 John 1

SEE:

REPENT / REPENTANCE: Just scary words?
 
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Alithis

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YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' "This is the great and foremost commandment." (Mat 22:37-38)
And why is this the greatest command?
Because when you do this...
You can't continue in the practice of sin ...so it comes full circle.

Please don't think I mean to disagree with your whole post (which I have not quoted) I don't disagree .
Just conversing.

I think what is disturbing is the amount of time and times this topic is debated while the question lays begging..

Are we obeying the Lord Jesus?
So we believe him ...
Do we really?

Matt ch 6 for instance..
Most who debate such concepts will get up and go to work to pay mortgages for thier dream we build here on earth where our treasure is...
But on Sunday will sing I believe in Jesus..
How can we say Lord I believe you when we don't Do what he says .
And we don't don't do what he says because --insert 1000excuses of preference-- which in truth amount to..“i don't REALLY believe what Jesus said.

...if someone wants to reply to that, Please read Matt ch 6 first.and don't use the words “yes BUT....“ in the reply haha.
 
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Alithis

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REBUTTAL to POST#245

1. YOUR out of context snippet of Hebrews 5:9 does not support your false doctrine:
"OBEDIENCE to Jesus is a pre-requisite condition to salvation."
Spiritually discern John 3 as explained in Ephesians 2...the HEART of salvation.==> NO HINT OF OBEDIENCE!
You are putting the OBEDIENCE cart before the Grace/spirit-led FAITH/BELIEF horse.

You must FOLLOW Jesus after the SALVATION EVENT and into/during the SANCTIFICATION PROCESS to be John 15 "FRUITFUL".

A: BELIEVE unto salvation...then...FOLLOW unto sanctification

1. There is no spiritual doubt that Jesus the GOD-Man was / is the "substitutionary atonement"
FOR all sins FOR all Men FOR all time.
Grace through Spirit-led BELIEF / FAITH in Jesus the God-Man as the substitute for and savior from sin: >>SALVATION

2. After salvation comes the PROCESS of SANCTIFICATION...the believer is permanently indwelt by God the Holy Spirit to guide and comfort him into the will of God..
SAVED UNTO GOOD WORKS....Trust + Obey + Love + Serve + etc!

Matthew 16: 24-27 (NASB) Jesus: Christ-following Is Spiritually Costly...(extracts: parens + caps mine)
24 Then Jesus said to His DISCIPLES, (saved believers!)
“If anyone wishes to COME AFTER Me (use Me as an example and model), he MUST:
>>1. deny himself, AND (spiritually put God, family, neighbors, world...BEFORE SELF)
>>2. take up his cross AND (spiritually bear sacrificial burdens of trusting and obeying and serving, etc)
>>3. follow Me. (spiritually imitate the perfect example of Jesus and His precepts)
25 For whoever wishes to save his (spiritual) life will lose it; but whoever loses his (earthly) life for My sake will find it.
26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole (material) world and forfeits his soul (/spirit)?
Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul (/spirit)?
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, (Second Coming !)
and will then repay every man (believer) according to his deeds. (Judgment of the Believer's Works after Salvation)

SEE ALSO: Luke 9:23-26

John 12:26...Jesus: following involves service
If anyone serves Me, he must FOLLOW Me;
and where I am, there My servant will be also;
if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.

Luke 12:48 (NIV)...Jesus: giving much requires more
From everyone who has been given much,
much will be DEMANDED;
and from the one who has been entrusted with much,
much more will be ASKED.

1 Peter 2:21-22...follow Jesus' example
...For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you,
leaving you an EXAMPLE for you to follow in His steps,
WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;...

The Rich Young Ruler MORALS of Matthew 19:
1. Man cannot DO anything to be worthy of an INHERITANCE of eternal spiritual life.
“Then who can be saved?”
26 And looking at them (disciples) Jesus said to them,
2. “With people this (DOING something on their own) is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

God CallsDraws. Man ACCEPTS or REJECTS.
For by Grace you Are saved .... THROUGH faith...
Explain THROUGH faith.

Do you believe the Lord Jesus ..?
 
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food4thought

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And why is this the greatest command?
Because when you do this...
You can't continue in the practice of sin ...so it comes full circle.

But this commandment cannot be kept consistently, we can only strive to walk in awareness of His presence and strive to love Him, but we all fall woefully short. Jesus knows this, though, and one of the reasons, perhaps the primary reason, He gave this as the greatest commandment was the futility of keeping it consistently... remember, He was speaking to a Pharisee. He was trying to make a point about the futility of salvation by keeping the Law.

Yet it is true that one cannot be loving God and sinning at the same time. I was trying to make the point that we all fall short of holiness and are in need of constant forgiveness.

Please don't think I mean to disagree with your whole post (which I have not quoted) I don't disagree .
Just conversing.

Same here. :)

I think what is disturbing is the amount of time and times this topic is debated while the question lays begging..

Are we obeying the Lord Jesus?
So we believe him ...
Do we really?

Some more, others less... again, we all fall short. I believe, in the end, it is all about faith in His salvation, not how obedient we are. We should be obedient always, but no one is always obedient. Is there some invisible line, a level of obedience, below which one is not saved? There may be, but we cannot know where it is, so judging another's salvation based upon looking at how obedient they are is a dubious enterprise.

Matt ch 6 for instance..
Most who debate such concepts will get up and go to work to pay mortgages for thier dream we build here on earth where our treasure is...
But on Sunday will sing I believe in Jesus..
How can we say Lord I believe you when we don't Do what he says .
And we don't don't do what he says because --insert 1000excuses of preference-- which in truth amount to..“i don't REALLY believe what Jesus said.

I think some people are doing really well on this command, but others not so much. I will say that we can demonstrate our love for God by being prosperous at something we excel at, the question is what does one do with the wealth they accumulate?

...if someone wants to reply to that, Please read Matt ch 6 first.and don't use the words “yes BUT....“ in the reply haha.

Yes, BUT... we all fall short. :D
 
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Alithis

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But this commandment cannot be kept consistently, we can only strive to walk in awareness of His presence and strive to love Him, but we all fall woefully short. Jesus knows this, though, and one of the reasons, perhaps the primary reason, He gave this as the greatest commandment was the futility of keeping it consistently... remember, He was speaking to a Pharisee. He was trying to make a point about the futility of salvation by keeping the Law.

Yet it is true that one cannot be loving God and sinning at the same time. I was trying to make the point that we all fall short of holiness and are in need of constant forgiveness.



Same here. :)



Some more, others less... again, we all fall short. I believe, in the end, it is all about faith in His salvation, not how obedient we are. We should be obedient always, but no one is always obedient. Is there some invisible line, a level of obedience, below which one is not saved? There may be, but we cannot know where it is, so judging another's salvation based upon looking at how obedient they are is a dubious enterprise.



I think some people are doing really well on this command, but others not so much. I will say that we can demonstrate our love for God by being prosperous at something we excel at, the question is what does one do with the wealth they accumulate?



Yes, BUT... we all fall short. :D
2 points ..
1.
why can't we love God consistently... Love being not a feeling but an act of the will.
2. Fallen short..past tense. Not fall present tense.

It really is amazing what God has done for us.
Though one big problem is what a lot of people perceive sin to be .
Some think just because they had a bad thought or desire that they sinned..
But that's just the accuser lying.

When we have those things happen we simply reject them and refuse to do those unrightous things.. And listen to the holy spirit instead to do rightously.

:)
 
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food4thought

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2 points ..
1. why can't we love God consistently... Love being not a feeling but an act of the will.

Because our wills are broken. God doesn't always heal us completely immediately. Also, not only are we to love God, we are to do so with "all our hearts and all our minds and all our strength". How long does it take your mind to wander from loving God? Even thinking of God? I don't know about you, but I find myself getting wrapped up in my daily activities and not even thinking about God fairly quickly.

2. Fallen short..past tense. Not fall present tense.

I contend that we all fall short of perfection in the moment by moment movement of our lives.

It really is amazing what God has done for us.
Though one big problem is what a lot of people perceive sin to be .
Some think just because they had a bad thought or desire that they sinned..
But that's just the accuser lying.

Sin begins in the heart. Remember what Jesus said about murder and adultery?

When we have those things happen we simply reject them and refuse to do those unrightous things.. And listen to the holy spirit instead to do righteously.

Assuming we are even aware of our sin, that is much easier said than done.
 
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Yarddog

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If they are in a state of righteousness they are no longer practicing sin the need to feel remorse for. If they are continuing to practice sin .they are not in a state of righteousness..they are in a sinfilled state.
That is not true. Being in the state of righteousness is not having your sins being kept an account of."Practicing" sin is continuing in a sin, such as adultery. If you are married and continue to be in an adulterous relationship, you are practicing sin but if you say something hurtful to your spouse, that is not practicing sin. In these cases one should feel remorse for the damage that they did and seek to right their wrong.
He does..and he also does not leave us practicing sin .
The Spirit helps us to defeat the desire to sin but we will always fall short at times and need the Spiritas our guide.
a proper person ?
Yes, one filled with God's Holy Spirit and appointed to baptize in the Trinitarian method.
If you say a pastor or other I Wil puke at the religious error and control.
No, one doesn't have to be a pastor but you don't want a pagan baptizing you, do you?

The laying on of hands is the laying on of hands.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the baptism of the Holy spirit.
And the Apostles laid their hands upon those they baptized with the HS.
Just because some one put thier hands on a person and said the words receive the Holy Spirit. Does not mean they did receive.
It did if the Apostles or one appointed by the Apostles laid their hands on a person and said "receive the Holy Spirit".

Obedience does...
Not if it is an act of man. As Paul says: Titus 3:
4 But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and his love toward man, appeared,
5 not by works [done] in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6
which he poured out upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Since its disobedience we are CALLED to repent of.
Try and get saved by disobedience..
You won't.
Who indicated that one would?
what your saying is to stop doing sin we must stop doing anything..
No, I am saying that in order follow God properly we must stop trying to be responsible for stopping our sin and truly have faith in the works of Jesus Christ and surrender to the Holy Spirit. That is doing something.
And you contradicted your self because you still think faith is a thing you have ..but it's not.
Yes it is. Faith is a belief in something which makes it a thing possessed. Abraham believed God and God granted him righteousness.
it's an action you do based on what you truley believe.
Our actions are result of our faith.
Many say they believe but they don't exercise any faith.
I agree. They don't let go of their pride and want to be responsible for their salvation.
Nor do they actually stop doing sin...
Scripture says "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
So, no one fully stops sinning.
They just say words like “ I have faith”
Only God truly knows who has faith.

God Bless
 
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Ron Gurley

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Maybe if Believers TRIED harder (with the HELP of God the Holy Spirit) to keep the Bibles' COMMANDS to LOVE, we would not have to run to 1 John 1 to claim CLEANSING + FORGIVENESS of SIN/SIN(S).. a major benefit of salvation...

LOVE COMMANDED..NOT polite requests!

a. #1 = Love God + #2 = Love Neighbor AS SELF...the BIG TWO IN ORDER!...Luke 10: 25-29: Matthew 22: 37-40; Mark 12:30
b. Love "ONE ANOTHER" (believers) as I have loved you...John 13:34-35; John 15; 1 John 4
c. Love Enemies..Sermon on the Mount...the HARD ONE...Matthew 5: 43-48
d. ABIDE in God's Love..1 John ALL!; John 15
e. If you Love me, FOLLOW/ (serve) me...Matthew 16: 24-27; Luke 14:25-33; John 12:26
f. If you Love me, OBEY, TRUST etc...and ...Get the "good news" out!..Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15

The GOLDEN RULE "to treat others as I want to be treated" (Matt. 7:12)...= good MAN-to-MAN ADVICE...not a COMMAND!
 
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Alithis

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That is not true. Being in the state of righteousness is not having your sins being kept an account of."Practicing" sin is continuing in a sin, such as adultery. If you are married and continue to be in an adulterous relationship, you are practicing sin but if you say something hurtful to your spouse, that is not practicing sin. In these cases one should feel remorse for the damage that they did and seek to right their wrong.

The Spirit helps us to defeat the desire to sin but we will always fall short at times and need the Spiritas our guide.

Yes, one filled with God's Holy Spirit and appointed to baptize in the Trinitarian method.

No, one doesn't have to be a pastor but you don't want a pagan baptizing you, do you?


And the Apostles laid their hands upon those they baptized with the HS.

It did if the Apostles or one appointed by the Apostles laid their hands on a person and said "receive the Holy Spirit".


Not if it is an act of man. As Paul says: Titus 3:
4 But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and his love toward man, appeared,
5 not by works [done] in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6
which he poured out upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Who indicated that one would?

No, I am saying that in order follow God properly we must stop trying to be responsible for stopping our sin and truly have faith in the works of Jesus Christ and surrender to the Holy Spirit. That is doing something.

Yes it is. Faith is a belief in something which makes it a thing possessed. Abraham believed God and God granted him righteousness.

Our actions are result of our faith.

I agree. They don't let go of their pride and want to be responsible for their salvation.

Scripture says "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
So, no one fully stops sinning.

Only God truly knows who has faith.

God Bless
in what nanner do you live any of this out?
 
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Yarddog

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in what nanner do you live any of this out?
I put my faith in the cross and not my ability to be obedient.

Back in the 80's, after being baptized into the Catholic Church, I thought that I needed to obey the Ten Commandment to be worthy of the love and forgiveness God had shown me. While trying this I began to feel great anxiety which increased as I tried to comply.

I cried out in prayer for God's help and I suddenly heard his voice saying, "I did not ask you to be perfect, Jesus has done that for you." I then was given a vision of the cross and I understood.

I embraced the cross and the purity we receive by the cleansing of his blood. I stopped trying to obey the Ten bit instead began to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I wanted to learn how to walk in the Spirit instead of focusing on stopping my sin.

As I surrendered to the Spirit I realized that many of the desires that I once had faded away. It wasn't me but the Spirit which made those changes.

We are children of an incredible loving God and Father who wants us to have faith in him and not our own abilities. I was a very prideful man that put myself first. Now, I seek to put myself last and in doing so God has brought such peace and fulfillment to my life.

God bless
 
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Alithis

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I put my faith in the cross and not my ability to be obedient.

Back in the 80's, after being baptized into the Catholic Church, I thought that I needed to obey the Ten Commandment to be worthy of the love and forgiveness God had shown me. While trying this I began to feel great anxiety which increased as I tried to comply.

I cried out in prayer for God's help and I suddenly heard his voice saying, "I did not ask you to be perfect, Jesus has done that for you." I then was given a vision of the cross and I understood.

I embraced the cross and the purity we receive by the cleansing of his blood. I stopped trying to obey the Ten bit instead began to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I wanted to learn how to walk in the Spirit instead of focusing on stopping my sin.

As I surrendered to the Spirit I realized that many of the desires that I once had faded away. It wasn't me but the Spirit which made those changes.

We are children of an incredible loving God and Father who wants us to have faith in him and not our own abilities. I was a very prideful man that put myself first. Now, I seek to put myself last and in doing so God has brought such peace and fulfillment to my life.

God bless
that this is the same for us all in obedience ig still remains that obedience is an action not just a thing you have.
like knowing the truth but not doing the truth cannot save you.
even Jesus was obedient in Action in order to make salvation available to us.
and no where are instructed to be baptized into a demonination .you need to get that corrected.

other then that . in what was is any of what you said effectually lived out.
the description you give thus far is of a life that trusts God in word only.
 
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Yarddog

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that this is the same for us all in obedience ig still remains that obedience is an action not just a thing you have.
Obedience is an action, faith is something you have and an action but where does your obedience come from? We are forgiven our sins through faith. An act of obedience may come from faith in God or faith in oneself, or some other factor. One must understand where their actions come from.

By not worrying about obeying the 10 Commandments, I was being obedient to God. By focusing on my relationship with Jesus, instead, I was being obedient to God.
like knowing the truth but not doing the truth cannot save you.
And the truth is that doing what the law commands will not save you.
even Jesus was obedient in Action in order to make salvation available to us.
Jesus was obedient to what the Father told him not the law.
and no where are instructed to be baptized into a demonination .you need to get that corrected.
No correction required since I didn't say that but "IF" God calls you to be baptized into a certain denomination, then if you refuse, that is sin and disobedience. I told me to be baptized and fellowship with other Christians in order to keep from falling back into my prideful ways. The Spirit led me to the Catholic Church and I obeyed.
other then that . in what was is any of what you said effectually lived out.
the description you give thus far is of a life that trusts God in word only.
As long as my actions follow what God has given me, then it is a life of trust in God's Word(Jesus Christ) and not in my ability to obey a list of laws, which lead to death according to the Apostle Paul.

God Bless
 
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Alithis

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Obedience is an action, faith is something you have and an action but where does your obedience come from? We are forgiven our sins through faith. An act of obedience may come from faith in God or faith in oneself, or some other factor. One must understand where their actions come from.

By not worrying about obeying the 10 Commandments, I was being obedient to God. By focusing on my relationship with Jesus, instead, I was being obedient to God.

And the truth is that doing what the law commands will not save you.

Jesus was obedient to what the Father told him not the law.

No correction required since I didn't say that but "IF" God calls you to be baptized into a certain denomination, then if you refuse, that is sin and disobedience. I told me to be baptized and fellowship with other Christians in order to keep from falling back into my prideful ways. The Spirit led me to the Catholic Church and I obeyed.

As long as my actions follow what God has given me, then it is a life of trust in God's Word(Jesus Christ) and not in my ability to obey a list of laws, which lead to death according to the Apostle Paul.

God Bless
The scripture states ...
Repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of your sin...

You can dissect it and complicate it but one thing you can't do is bypass it.
And neither repentance nor baptism is going to happen with out ones own participation.
Not then not now not ever.

If ones own participation is not required them why are not all automatically saved.
?
Because they do not obey the Gospel and go on to remain obedient as new creatures in Christ do.

I'm not going to give false hope to any one.this salvation is available to all
But not all are willing to obey it And enter into what has been so graciously provided through no doing of our own.

But we can never and must never remove persoal responsability for action taken.

Faith is the action one takes when they truly believe .
If one does not take the action one does not truly believe.
If one begins to take the action then draws back and ceases in that way then they will reap the reward of that.
 
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Yarddog

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The scripture states ...
Repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of your sin...

You can dissect it and complicate it but one thing you can't do is bypass it.
And neither repentance nor baptism is going to happen with out ones own participation.
Not then not now not ever.
Do you believe that I said anything different.????
 
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Alithis

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Do you believe that I said anything different.????
You said a lot ..so much in fact that the message is undefined and complicated
And in doing so you've suggested people do not have a responsibility to respond in faith because you imply God does it all.
But if he did .all would be automatically saved.
And this is not so.
 
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Yarddog

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You said a lot ..so much in fact that the message is undefined and complicated
And in doing so you've suggested people do not have a responsibility to respond in faith because you imply God does it all.
But if he did .all would be automatically saved.
And this is not so.
Scripture says far more than what I wrote, do you believe that is complicated and undefined? Take time to read what I wrote in an undefient manner and you will see that I wrote over and over that we are to respond to our faith. Surrendering to the HAS is responding.
 
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Alithis

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Scripture says far more than what I wrote, do you believe that is complicated and undefined? Take time to read what I wrote in an undefient manner and you will see that I wrote over and over that we are to respond to our faith. Surrendering to the HAS is responding.
Don't forget the confines of the OP question.

What must we do to receive the forgiveness of sin .

If it were “nothing“
As some suggest then why is not every one automatically forgiven ?

Now if the question were “what must we do to Earn the forgiveness of sin “
Then the reply would be ..there is Nothing we CAN do to Earn it.
 
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