What must we do for the forgiveness of sins?

[Monk Brendan]

DP

 

[Monk Brendan]

defending rome and all its wickedness

Let me ask one question:

Why is it that this unholy, evil, demonic Roman Church has not only existed, but has defined Western Civilization, has given life to the most holy people in the world, and has defied all of its enemies to exist for close to two millennia? The only way that could happen is by the Holy Spirit. Think on that before you call Rome wicked.

Edit--typo

 

[SkyWriting]

That is not a good representation. Study Acts a little better.

I've taken three decades to reach my conclusions on Pauls poor conversion record.
What are you thinking of?
His disgust for women talking, dressing, hair styles, sexual preferences, particular sins, what?

And how does any of that fit with treating others just as you would have them treating you?
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

My stand is rock solid. Not one person has found a valid flaw in my reasoning.
One critic said that the golden rule was just one passage.
I shewed him 4 supporting versions in other books in scripture.

Paul's teachings have resulted in more people being bashed over the
head with a Bible than any author. How does that result fit with
" the essence of the Law and the prophets" ?

 

[klutedavid]

except it does not only say that does it.
no,it does not.
Jesus said repentance for the forgivness of sin is to be preached..
not belief only.
the devils believe -and tremble
and belief where one only says it but does not act on it ,is hypocrisy .a pretense .

Hello Alithis.

Thanks for your reply.

The good news, the Gospel, is of first importance, it is the primary message.

The apostle Paul clearly defined what the Gospel was below.

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

The act of repentance will not save anyone.

 

[klutedavid]

except it does not only say that does it.
no,it does not.
Jesus said repentance for the forgivness of sin is to be preached..
not belief only.
the devils believe -and tremble
and belief where one only says it but does not act on it ,is hypocrisy .a pretense .

Hello Alithis.

Salvation itself is awarded to those who believe in Jesus Christ, and that is the Gospel according to the apostle Paul. Your act of repentance does not initiate salvation, that is putting the cart before the horse.

The good news, the Gospel, is of first importance, it is the primary message.

The apostle Paul clearly defined what the Gospel was below.

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

 

[klutedavid]

except it does not only say that does it.
no,it does not.
Jesus said repentance for the forgivness of sin is to be preached..
not belief only.
the devils believe -and tremble
and belief where one only says it but does not act on it ,is hypocrisy .a pretense .

Hello Alithis.

Salvation itself is awarded to those who believe in Jesus Christ, and that is the Gospel according to the apostle Paul. Your act of repentance does not initiate salvation, that is putting the cart before the horse.

The good news, the Gospel, is of first importance, it is the primary message.

The apostle Paul clearly defined what the Gospel was below.

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

 

[klutedavid]

except it does not only say that does it.
no,it does not.
Jesus said repentance for the forgivness of sin is to be preached..
not belief only.
the devils believe -and tremble
and belief where one only says it but does not act on it ,is hypocrisy .a pretense .

Hello Alithis.

Salvation itself is awarded to those who believe in Jesus Christ, and that is the Gospel according to the apostle Paul. Your act of repentance does not initiate salvation, that is putting the cart before the horse.

The good news, the Gospel, is of first importance, it is the primary message.

The apostle Paul clearly defined what the Gospel was below.

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

 

[Alithis]

Forgiveness is available to all. Atonement has been made for all.

Some will accept it, some may reject it.

God isn't going to force it on anyone.

yet is not automatically applied to all. only to the repentant and repentance is not a one off instance but a continued state of obedience.

 

[Alithis]

So Jesus only died for some people?

-CryptoLutheran

what he has doneness done for all.. who will believe on him and they that believe obey .
those that say with their lips that they believe but refuse to obey him (beginning with repentance of their disobedience) are faking it. and he is not fooled,nor are they saved. for Jesus said "repentance for the forgiveness of sin is to be preached" without repentance there is no forgiveness of sin .

 

[A_Thinker]

The problem with the false and easily disprovable theologies of the reformation- that is sola scriptura and sola fidei , is they try to reduce ad absurdum to " just this one thing " is enough. To the point of modern fast food faux Christianity , which says " ask Jesus into your life, and you are forever saved" It is fascinating that this 20th century version of Christianity is nowhere in scripture!

John 6

35 Then Jesus said, “I am the bread that gives life. No one who comes to me will ever be hungry. No one who believes in me will ever be thirsty. 36 I told you before that you have seen me, and still you don’t believe. 37 The Father gives me my people. Every one of them will come to me. I will always accept them. 38 I came down from heaven to do what God wants, not what I want. 39 I must not lose anyone God has given me. But I must raise them up on the last day. This is what the one who sent me wants me to do. 40 Everyone who sees the Son and believes in him has eternal life. I will raise them up on the last day. This is what my Father wants.”

 

[Albion]

Let me ask one question:

Why is it that this unholy, evil, demonic Roman Church has not only existed, but has defined Western Civilization, has given life to the most holy people in the world, and has defied all of its enemies to exist for close to two millennia? The only way that could happen is by the Holy Spirit. Think on that before you call Rome wicked.

Edit--typo

Many things that start out well go sour. I'm sure you know that. The Reformation occurred at the point in time that it did for the reason that the Western church was far gone into corruption in the late Middle Ages. The Reformers pointed, for a justification of their concerns, to the Apostolic Church and to Scripture. Why do you suppose that was? It wasn't because they were opposed to what the Apostolic and Ancient churches had taught, but what had changed after that time.

 

[Alithis]

Let me ask one question:

Why is it that this unholy, evil, demonic Roman Church has not only existed, but has defined Western Civilization, has given life to the most holy people in the world, and has defied all of its enemies to exist for close to two millennia? The only way that could happen is by the Holy Spirit. Think on that before you call Rome wicked.

Edit--typo

that's some big claims . but all hot air.it's ruled a carnal kingdom and murdered those who opposed it at times (and will do so again)
the kingdom of God is not an institution ruled of men but a building not made by hands ..

 

[Alithis]

Hello Alithis.

Thanks for your reply.

The good news, the Gospel, is of first importance, it is the primary message.

The apostle Paul clearly defined what the Gospel was below.

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

The act of repentance will not save anyone.

Paul said that..reminding them of the gospel as preached in acts.. that they had to
repent
be baptised (into Christ's death that they might also live in his resurrection )
and that they would receive the Holy Spirit (of life)
there is no forgiveness without repentance.

 

[~Anastasia~]

yet is not automatically applied to all. only to the repentant and repentance is not a one off instance but a continued state of obedience.

I hope you didn't think I implied otherwise. But my other post is buried pages back.

That post was simply making the point that Christ died for ALL, forgiveness is already available for all. Not everyone will accept it.

Accepting forgiveness requires believing in Christ, and it also requires repentance. It is repeated, because as we go through life, we can change. If we fail to keep repenting, we turn from God. God doesn't force anyone to remain His. He won't lose any, but He won't force us to stay.

This I wrote before I finished the last paragraph - it was part of it, but a digression, so not exactly on-topic, but it sets up the fact that being a Christian is a way of life ... )
It also requires - well, accepting. Some people in a sort of miserable pride think their sins are too great for God to forgive. If they truly believe their ability to keep God away is greater than God's own ability, and persist in that - they won't be forgiven. But I hope that their belief in that isn't really so strong as to cause them to pridefully push God away.


But yes, it requires these kinds of things, and requires they continue. Not because they are hoops we must jump through "in order to be saved" or because they are "works" that God requires or we try to do to save ourselves, but because THAT'S WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS. We become transformed into a new person, one who trusts in God (the basis of belief) and the result of that trust is that we agree with Him that we are sinful, and we repent continually, and our trust means we don't have opposing prideful inclinations that pull us away, into relying on our works to save us, or anything else.

Christianity was once called "The Way" in the beginning of the faith, and that's what it is. A way, a path, a journey, of BEING and BECOMING (transformed to be) more like Christ (little Christs = Christians, that's what that name means).

So yes, continual repentance is part of it. Not because it's "something we must do in order to earn forgiveness" but because that's what a forgiven person (Christian) does.

I wonder at these conversations that argue over minutiae. Not saying you (Alithis) have done - I'm actually thinking of other threads. People pull out one line of Scripture or another and say "THIS is what we must do to be saved! It says it right here!" I want to beg them to read and consider the whole of Scriptures. When we trust in God, and in live that way, following Christ as best we can, we are forgiven. But it's not a bunch of hoops to jump through. Some may even entirely miss this particular hoop or that one - that's why God judges, not us. But is IS who we ARE, and more importantly, Who we become like.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Btw, Happy Birthday, Alithis!

 

[Alithis]

I hope you didn't think I implied otherwise. But my other post is buried pages back.

That post was simply making the point that Christ died for ALL, forgiveness is already available for all. Not everyone will accept it.

Accepting forgiveness requires believing in Christ, and it also requires repentance. It is repeated, because as we go through life, we can change. If we fail to keep repenting, we turn from God. God doesn't force anyone to remain His. He won't lose any, but He won't force us to stay.

This I wrote before I finished the last paragraph - it was part of it, but a digression, so not exactly on-topic, but it sets up the fact that being a Christian is a way of life ... )
It also requires - well, accepting. Some people in a sort of miserable pride think their sins are too great for God to forgive. If they truly believe their ability to keep God away is greater than God's own ability, and persist in that - they won't be forgiven. But I hope that their belief in that isn't really so strong as to cause them to pridefully push God away.


But yes, it requires these kinds of things, and requires they continue. Not because they are hoops we must jump through "in order to be saved" or because they are "works" that God requires or we try to do to save ourselves, but because THAT'S WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS. We become transformed into a new person, one who trusts in God (the basis of belief) and the result of that trust is that we agree with Him that we are sinful, and we repent continually, and our trust means we don't have opposing prideful inclinations that pull us away, into relying on our works to save us, or anything else.

Christianity was once called "The Way" in the beginning of the faith, and that's what it is. A way, a path, a journey, of BEING and BECOMING (transformed to be) more like Christ (little Christs = Christians, that's what that name means).

So yes, continual repentance is part of it. Not because it's "something we must do in order to earn forgiveness" but because that's what a forgiven person (Christian) does.

I wonder at these conversations that argue over minutiae. Not saying you (Alithis) have done - I'm actually thinking of other threads. People pull out one line of Scripture or another and say "THIS is what we must do to be saved! It says it right here!" I want to beg them to read and consider the whole of Scriptures. When we trust in God, and in live that way, following Christ as best we can, we are forgiven. But it's not a bunch of hoops to jump through. Some may even entirely miss this particular hoop or that one - that's why God judges, not us. But is IS who we ARE, and more importantly, Who we become like.

Thankyou for that wonderful clarification. It was a delight to read .my intent wwas to highlight that seemingly obvious point because i have it argued against on a sadly astounding number of occasions. Thankyou that there are people as you ..who “ get it “.

 

[MWood]

Many of the saints seem to be confused as to what constitutes a "work". So I will ask this rhetorical question. What must we do to receive forgiveness, and if there is something we must do, is it work?

Nothing! There is nothing you can do to get forgiveness of sin. The only work that you can do that will count, is be a good ambassador.

 

[klutedavid]

Paul said that..reminding them of the gospel as preached in acts.. that they had to
repent
be baptised (into Christ's death that they might also live in his resurrection )
and that they would receive the Holy Spirit (of life)
there is no forgiveness without repentance.

Hello Alithis.

Do you deny that the death and resurrection of the Christ is the primary doctrine of the New Testament?

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures

 

[Alithis]

Hello Alithis.

Do you deny that the death and resurrection of the Christ is the primary doctrine of the New Testament?

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures

No .nor do i deny that we must also die with him in baptism .nor do i deny that without repentance there is no forgivness of sin .

 

[Alithis]

Nothing! There is nothing you can do to get forgiveness of sin. The only work that you can do that will count, is be a good ambassador.

So Everybody is automaticly forgiven of sin no matter what they do and everyone is going to heaven.. Nope..thats not true.
It doesnt even come close to agreeing with the lord Jesus. The gospel does not state “believe and your forgiven” it states repent and be baptized for the remission of sin.
Disobey the good news and youvwont be saved.
Those who truly believe prove it by thier obedience.

 

[klutedavid]

No .nor do i deny that we must also die with him in baptism .nor do i deny that without repentance there is no forgivness of sin .

Hello Alithis.

You did not deny the primary doctrine, the death and resurrection of the Christ. Yet you attempted to confuse this doctrine of first importance, with matters of secondary importance, your personal achievements. Either the death and the resurrection of the Christ is the first doctrine, or it is not the first doctrine.

There is far too much confusion in the Christian world, the principle reason for anyone's salvation is simply believing in Jesus Christ. Those who really believe in Jesus, will of course pursue the Christian lifestyle with some vigor. Yet the Christian life choices (e.g, repentance) are not the actual basis for one's salvation.

Acts 2:21
AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.

Romans 10:13
For "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

What is the primary and first doctrine?

What is the definition of a Christian?


















You mentioned this statement.

Those who truly believe prove it by thier obedience.

Those who truly believe, and what is it that they believe?

Is not a personal obedience to Christ, merely the result of being forgiven in the first place?

You are either saved because you believe in Jesus Christ, or you are not saved on that basis.