what is the whole law?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

what is the whole law?
​

Love, friend.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

James 2 says we are to keep the whole law.
In James we see the Royal Law quoted (Lev 19:18 Love your neighbor, Deut 6:5 Love God) and we also see James quotes from the Ten Commandments -- calling the Ten the "Law of Liberty".

This means that at the very least - those laws are included James's text as they are explicitly reference.

Acts 15 defines other laws beyond the 10 Commandments, Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 - it also includes food laws regarding eating meat with blood in it - and eating meat offered to idols. James is not trying to null out Acts 15 in James 2.
in Christ,
Bob

Good post

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[winslow]

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[MoreCoffee]

This was a post by another member and rather than sidetracking that thread, I would like to ask others view of what exactly is meant by "the whole Law". Thanks

(NKJV) James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point,] he is guilty of all.

Textus Rec.) James 2:10 ostiV gar olon ton nomon thrhsei ptaisei de en eni gegonen pantwn enocoV

Just a thought ... James is talking about the Mosaic law but "the whole law" for us is probably much wider because we live in an age where heaps of things are illegal and thought to be immoral that James may never have thought about in his entire life. We make racism immoral and using bad language immoral and discriminating against women immoral .... the whole law is more than just the Mosaic Law.

Oh, here's what a commentator (or two thought),

James 2:10
Is become guilty of all. It is certain these words are not to be taken merely according to the letter, nor in the sense which at first they seem to represent, as if a man by transgressing one precept of the law transgressed and broke all the rest: this appears by the very next verse, that a man may commit murder by killing another, and not commit adultery. And it is certain, as St. Augustine observes, that all sins are not equal, as the Stoic philosophers pretended.

See St. Augustine, Epist. clxvii, (nov. ed. tom. 2, p. 595) where he consults St. Jerome on this very place out of St. James, and tells us that such a man may be said to be guilty of all, because by one deadly sin he acts against charity, (which is the love of God and of our neighbour) upon which depends the whole law and all its precepts; so that by breaking one precept, he loseth the habit of charity, and maketh the keeping, or not breaking of all the rest, unprofitable to him. Secondly, it may be added, that all the precepts of the law are to be considered as one total and entire law, and as it were a chain of precepts, where by breaking one link of this chain the whole chain is broken, or the integrity of the law, consisting of a collection of precepts. Thirdly, it may be said, that he who breaks any one precept, contemns the authority of the lawgiver, who enjoined them all, and under pain of being for ever excluded from his sight and enjoyment. A sinner, therefore, by a grievous offence against any one precept, forfeits his heavenly inheritance, becomes liable to eternal punishments, as if he had transgressed all the rest: not but that the punishments in hell shall be greater against those who have been greater sinners, as greater shall be the reward in heaven for those who have lived with greater sanctity and perfection.​

(Witham)

Guilty, &c. That is, he becomes a transgressor of the law in such a manner, that the observing of all other points will not avail him to salvation; for he despises the lawgiver, and breaks through the great and general commandment of charity, even by one mortal sin. (Challoner)
​

 

[JohnRabbit]

Just a thought ... James is talking about the Mosaic law but "the whole law" for us is probably much wider because we live in an age where heaps of things are illegal and thought to be immoral that James may never have thought about in his entire life. We make racism immoral and using bad language immoral and discriminating against women immoral .... the whole law is more than just the Mosaic Law.

when did we become the "determinant" of God's law?

God's law is progressive?

 

[MoreCoffee]

when did we become the "determinant" of God's law?

God's law is progressive?

Yes, it develops as society changes its moral paradigm.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Yes, it develops as society changes its moral paradigm.

i guess i missed that somewhere between gen-rev!

 

[MoreCoffee]

i guess i missed that somewhere between gen-rev!

Yeah, I guess you did.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by MoreCoffee Yes, it develops as society changes its moral paradigm.

i guess i missed that somewhere between gen-rev!

Yeah, I guess you did.

Just by a hair

2 Chronicles 28:19 For the LORD brought Judah low because of Ahaz king of Israel, for he had encouraged moral decline in Judah and had been continually unfaithful to the LORD.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' "

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking..

This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

 

[MoreCoffee]

LittleLambofJesus, my conversation with JohnRabbit was about the development of moral interpretation among the Israelites prior to the coming of Christ. That there was development is evident from the words of the prophets who - although calling for a return to the purity of ancient times and the observance of the law - made it clear that mere ritual mixed with sacrifices was not what God wanted from Israel. This culminated in these words,

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? (Micah 6:8)​

My bible has some additional development in books that Protestants usually reject but that I accept as inspired revelation from God. The point in all this is that what is written in scripture ought not to be treated as a static unchangeable set of rules for living. Jesus himself makes a similar point when he addresses the crowds in Galilee,

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Matthew 5:20-48)​

The first sentence in the above quote sets the scene for the rest; the Pharisees were strict about obedience to the law and the tradition of the elders so their legal righteousness was very likely impressive for its observance of externals but there was something seriously amiss in how they approached God. The Lord spells out what the problem was. I think that a similar problem exists in the thinking of those who want to be under the law as a discipline for righteousness even though I sympathise with their assertion that the law has continuing validity. The continuing validity that the law has is primarily as a reminder of sin and a warning when we slip into deliberate or accidental sin. But the law is not well used when it is used as a means of control.

 

[Elder 111]

This was a post by another member and rather than sidetracking that thread, I would like to ask others view of what exactly is meant by "the whole Law". Thanks

(NKJV) James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point,] he is guilty of all.

Textus Rec.) James 2:10 ostiV gar olon ton nomon thrhsei ptaisei de en eni gegonen pantwn enocoV

The whole law in the context is the 10 Commandments only.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus, my conversation with JohnRabbit was about the development of moral interpretation among the Israelites prior to the coming of Christ. That there was development is evident from the words of the prophets who - although calling for a return to the purity of ancient times and the observance of the law - made it clear that mere ritual mixed with sacrifices was not what God wanted from Israel.

The first sentence in the above quote sets the scene for the rest; the Pharisees were strict about obedience to the law and the tradition of the elders so their legal righteousness was very likely impressive for its observance of externals but there was something seriously amiss in how they approached God. The Lord spells out what the problem was. I think that a similar problem exists in the thinking of those who want to be under the law as a discipline for righteousness even though I sympathise with their assertion that the law has continuing validity. The continuing validity that the law has is primarily as a reminder of sin and a warning when we slip into deliberate or accidental sin. But the law is not well used when it is used as a means of control.

Did you happen to check out the link in my previous post to that site concerning the rich man and lazarus in Luke 16 concerning the Pharisees and House of Judah?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7552108/#post61470315


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[MoreCoffee]

Did you happen to check out the link in my previous post to that site concerning the rich man and lazarus in Luke 16 concerning the Pharisees and House of Judah?

No

Oh sorry, I did. I looked at it and thought ... not sure what it has to do with the current chatter

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No

Oh sorry, I did. I looked at it and thought ... not sure what it has to do with the current chatter

You are the one that brought up the Pharisees
You need more coffee bro ehehe

Originally Posted by MoreCoffee

The first sentence in the above quote sets the scene for the rest; the Pharisees were strict about obedience to the law and the tradition of the elders so their legal righteousness was very likely impressive for its observance of externals but there was something seriously amiss in how they approached God.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

The self-righteous Pharisees and scribes, acknowledged by Yeshua as the legitimate religious teachers of the Jews (Matt. 23:1-3), should have been the ones telling these people of God's love for them.
They should have been the ones teaching these sinners, exhorting them to return to God and receive His love and forgiveness. However, because of their faith in their own righteousness and their contempt for these tax collectors and sinners who didn't measure up to their standards, the Pharisees and scribes excluded them and considered them accursed (John 7:49).

Afterward, speaking primarily to his disciples but with the Pharisees (and probably the crowd) still listening in, Yeshua related the parable of the unjust steward (Luke 16:1-13). The Pharisees, who were "lovers of money" (Luke 16:14), realized that the Messiah was alluding to them with this parable and took offense. They scoffed at Yeshua. The final part of his response to the derision of the Pharisees and scribes was the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

We'll now examine this parable in detail to grasp exactly what the Messiah was teaching about the kingdom of God:

 

[JohnRabbit]

The whole law in the context is the 10 Commandments only.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Elder 111 The whole law in the context is the 10 Commandments only.

And of course that means keeping the Fri-Sat Sabbath

...

 

[JohnRabbit]

And of course that means keeping the Fri-Sat Sabbath

...

of course!

 

[bbbbbbb]

of course!

But not observing any other Sabbaths.

 

[JohnRabbit]

But not observing any other Sabbaths.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This was a post by another member and rather than sidetracking that thread, I would like to ask others view of what exactly is meant by "the whole Law". Thanks

(NKJV) James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point,] he is guilty of all.

Originally Posted by Elder 111 The whole law in the context is the 10 Commandments only.

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
And of course that means keeping the Fri-Sat Sabbath

of course!

But not observing any other Sabbaths.

View Poll Results: what is the law spoken of in the NT

the law of Moses bbbbbbb, BobRyan, ChristianT, Clare73, cyberlizard, Harry3142, HarryCovert, Jig, lovernotafighter, New_Wineskin, ricker, SolomonVII, tigger45, yedida 14 48.28%

the law of Abraham GrizzlyMonKeH 1 3.45%

I am not sure cubinity, JesusFreak78, Satt 3 10.34%

other 11822, annier, brinny, from scratch, icedragon101, MoreCoffee, Mr Dave, Nanopants, Sieben, squint, Yarddog 11 37.93%