What is the Church's position on Creation/Evolution

[Platina]

Have you ever met Orthodox literalists? Legitimately asking. Personally I haven't talked to that many Orthodox people, but my priest was very clear on the subject and I suppose all the folk at my parish were instructed the same way, if this is confirmed by the Church and the Fathers then there's no real issue.
Now if we talk of protestants and some Catholics.. Different story.

If you mean literalists about Genesis, yes, there are many. Very many. The saints, including 20th centuries, are literalists.

But, "literalists" is not the full truth - you don't have to choose literal OR symbolic - Scripture is deep enough to harmonize multiple layers. The problem comes when you want to jettison one of these layers.

 

[All4Christ]

So what everyone needs to believe is the following: God created the world. The world is intentionally designed by God. We are not an accident. Death and corruption are the results of the ancestral sin. Through sin, death came into the world. That doesn’t not pass on the guilt of the first sin, but it does pass on immortality.

The theology that states that God created the World cannot be changed. Theology stating that death and corruption are the result of sin cannot be changed. Those concepts are Orthodox teachings and any other teachings (we are an accident, God didn’t design the world, sin came from any other reason) are not Orthodox.

While I have a belief for how that happened, the exact details of how that happened are not dogmatic.

So I believe that sums it all up. Beyond that, there isn’t much to debate, though like gurney said....WWIII normally happens because of this topic Actially, it may be WWM now...

 

[gzt]

Have you ever met Orthodox literalists? Legitimately asking. Personally I haven't talked to that many Orthodox people, but my priest was very clear on the subject and I suppose all the folk at my parish were instructed the same way, if this is confirmed by the Church and the Fathers then there's no real issue.
Now if we talk of protestants and some Catholics.. Different story.

There are some, but it's a fringe position and not at all obligatory.

 

[SingularityOne]

Jay Dyer is not even Orthodox and should be avoided.

There are a variety of positions, you can see a summary and several links to articles here: Evolution - OrthodoxWiki

It is wholly legitimate as an Orthodox Christian to believe the earth is old and the broad scientific narrative (the universe is 14 billion years old, life has been around for billions of years, common descent, etc) or to believe that the earth was created a few thousand years ago.

Jay Dyer actually is Orthodox. Just an FYI.

 

[ArmyMatt]

the saints have been in the fringe in every generation. if that's the fringe it's a better company to be in than the other.

 

[SingularityOne]

Three things are a must:

1.) Creation ex-nihilo
2.) Everything was created "good" originally.
and
3.) Man was made in the image and likeness of God

Orthodox Perspectives on Creation - Society Articles - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America

 

[gzt]

Jay Dyer actually is Orthodox. Just an FYI.

He has finally actually converted?!

 

[ArmyMatt]

Three things are a must:

1.) Creation ex-nihilo
2.) Everything was created "good" originally.
and
3.) Man was made in the image and likeness of God

Orthodox Perspectives on Creation - Society Articles - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America

absolutely, and death is not one of the good things created by God.

 

[SingularityOne]

He has finally actually converted?!

Yeah. He converted 7 years ago or so from what I remember hearing.

 

[SingularityOne]

NPNF2-08. Basil: Letters and Select Works - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Also, the Hexæmeron by St. Basil is quite good if one is interested in this topic.

 

[gzt]

Yeah. He converted 7 years ago or so from what I remember hearing.

Ah! There's your problem. Yes, he decided to be Orthodox quite some time ago, but has never actually been received, at least as far as has been ascertained (perhaps he has recently changed that, but if you think it was 7 years ago, you're wrong).

 

[SingularityOne]

Ah! There's your problem. Yes, he decided to be Orthodox quite some time ago, but has never actually been received, at least as far as has been ascertained (perhaps he has recently changed that, but if you think it was 7 years ago, you're wrong).

I always have the possibility of being wrong, yes, but I'm sure he is currently a received Orthodox brother.

 

[MariaJLM]

Have you ever met Orthodox literalists? Legitimately asking. Personally I haven't talked to that many Orthodox people, but my priest was very clear on the subject and I suppose all the folk at my parish were instructed the same way, if this is confirmed by the Church and the Fathers then there's no real issue.
Now if we talk of protestants and some Catholics.. Different story.

I have met at least a few. Usually they're poorly catechized converts from Protestantism.

 

[gzt]

I always have the possibility of being wrong, yes, but I'm sure he is currently a received Orthodox brother.

Good news if true.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I have met at least a few. Usually they're poorly catechized converts from Protestantism.

St Nektarios of Aegina wrote a work called Against Evolution. I don't think he was poorly catechized

 

[gzt]

I think things are starting to spiral. Again, there are numerous articles from both sides on orthowiki (as pointed out), if you want the arguments look there.

 

[gzt]

I always have the possibility of being wrong, yes, but I'm sure he is currently a received Orthodox brother.

Anyway, I don't want to either make a false accusation or demand somebody show their card - I'm not going to scrutinize his material (so much, and of such low quality, and most of it not written and searchable) to see if he's referred to ever actually joining the Church or not. Somebody mentioned that a relatively recent podcast of said he didn't, but I am not going to chase that down myself, that's how you get worms in your brain.

 

[MariaJLM]

St Nektarios of Aegina wrote a work called Against Evolution. I don't think he was poorly catechized

Well it's just been my experiences that most of the people denying evolution are Protestant converts. Saints were primarily theologians rather than scientists anyway. Two different fields of study so I think turning to saints for information on scientific theories is setting a dangerous precedent.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well it's just been my experiences that most of the people denying evolution are Protestant converts. Saints were primarily theologians rather than scientists anyway. Two different fields of study so I think turning to saints for information on scientific theories is setting a dangerous precedent.

St Luke of Crimea was both a scientist and a bishop, and he flat out rejects it.

 

[MariaJLM]

St Luke of Crimea was both a scientist and a bishop, and he flat out rejects it.

Technically he was a doctor, but eh.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just not convinced of anything besides theistic evolution or possibly Old Earth Creationism. I have looked into Young Earth arguments with an open mind and simply wasn't convinced. Maybe it's my pretty strongly atheistic background I come from speaking, I don't know. I don't dwell on the issue anyway since it's not a matter of dogma. I mean, even my own priest is a theistic evolutionist I'm pretty sure.