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What is Christ's rest?

DamianWarS

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Brother, here is the evidence of the decomposition of the Ten Commandments into two parts: the first part is how to show love for God and the second part is how to show love for neighbor.
I get it, but Christ's context is all "the law and prophets" his statement is not motivated at separating the 10 or looking at a 10 commandment vacuum (and then further dividing the 10 in 2 groups) as it seems is the focus here. Scripture never makes those distinctions nor does it ever label or disect law this way. Christ's focus is all the law the prophets indiscriminately. This also includes the commandments we do not keep and rather say they are fulfilled, finished, complete or whatever language your tradition uses. Christ makes no comment on such divisions; all law, is law, no exception, no divisions. So why do we work so hard to dividing law so we can say which ones we don't have to keep and which ones we should keep? rather we should be looking at a holistic approach to law so that we treat x the same as y, regardless of what it is.
 
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DamianWarS

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We know the greatest commandment to love God with all our heart, mind and soul are directly came from the Ten Commandments. Jesus quoted from the OT when He quoted them.

he quotes from outside the 10

Deut 6:5 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

this is outside the 10, it's coming after/before does not mean it came from. Jesus qualifies it's source as above all law, ergo all law is from these commandments. The commandment committed to pen (or whatever medium used) is only it manifested. If a law is to be universal it pre-exists the law itself. Jesus says all the law and prophets hang upon these two commandments, this what he identifies is a construct of law itself, one that predate's law and is more universal, where the torah contextualised from this construct to represent place and time (as well as ordained plan)
Like when you said summed up in Rom 13:9 didn't mean summary yet the Greek showed that it did. I do not isolate one translation, I tend to look at the Greek and other translations as well. I do recommend through, not using a thought for thought translation because they take a lot of liberties that is not written in our Bibles. When I see a lot of commentary from posters they usually tend to use one of these translations instead of word for word.
Rom 13:9 uses the proper word for the greek sum. It is Mat 7:12 - "for this sums up the Law and the Prophets" that does not use the greek for "sum" and most translations just say "is the law and the Prophets" which is what the greek says. This Romans passage is the only passage that uses "sum" and there is nothing wrong with the word we just may be applying a limited meaning to it. Paul's use must agree with Christ's use when he speaks it of "all the law and prophets hang upon these two" so whatever sum means, it must agree with Christ. since Christ does not isoalte the 10, to look at Paul's words motivated to isolated the 10 would be in competition with Christ's words.
We are not the first generation to reject God's commandments, its been going on for a long time. God is so longsuffering, hoping we will come out of our rebellion to Him as He calls on us daily not to rebel and harden our hearts to God's Truth. But people have itching ears and this all comes to an end soon enough and we will all have to live with our decisions Rev 22:11
I don't appreciate your language. I highly value God's call upon my life and his commandments. Please correct your language from this pointing the finger sentiment. I have reminded you of this many times in the past, it seems this is not something you want to give up and I'm not sure why. Please show respect and love to those who you speak to reminded they are brothers and sisters of Christ too who have the highest respect for these things. Also these words are not edifying, I can copy and paste the same right back at your and accuse you of the same. To what end? what is the motivation? it feels like "I'm right and your wrong" sentiment. Let's adjust our motivation to edify and build up, not blame and tear down.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I don't appreciate your language. I highly value God's call upon my life and his commandments. Please correct your language from this pointing the finger sentiment. I have reminded you of this many times in the past, it seems this is not something you want to give up and I'm not sure why. Please show respect and love to those who you speak to reminded they are brothers and sisters of Christ too who have the highest respect for these things. Also these words are not edifying, I can copy and paste the same right back at your and accuse you of the same. To what end? what is the motivation? it feels like "I'm right and your wrong" sentiment. Let's adjust our motivation to edify and build up, not blame and tear down.
Weird you would take what I said as personal when I used the word "we" meaning us as a society. Its exactly like what was predicted in the Scriptures and as we see throughout the entire Bible. Sorry if you took something I stated as broad to be personal, I have no idea your relationship with Christ, nor does anyone know mine, we all have to answer to someone much greater than you or I. All we can do is point out what the Scriptures say and pray for each other.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I get it, but Christ's context is all "the law and prophets" his statement is not motivated at separating the 10 or looking at a 10 commandment vacuum
Damian I can't help point out when you say "10 commandment vacuum" which is used in a derogatory way, who are you saying this about and against? This is God's personal Testimony you are speaking about. In the Bible, people died just for touching God's Testimony when they weren't supposed to. When the ark fell in enemy hands, they immediately gave it back to Israel because what God did to them for having His Testimony when they weren't supposed to. You might consider it a vacuum, but its the God of the Universes own personal written and spoken Testimony that is in His Most Holy under His mercy seat, where justice and mercy will come together soon. Rev 11:18-19 Exo 20:6

Exo 32:16 16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.
Exo 31:1818 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Deut 4:13 13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

The Ten Commandments were already separated by God. God only both wrote and spoke "Ten Commandments" no more were added because Gods Testimony is complete, why Scripture tells us no more was added Deut 5:22. There are no other laws inside the ark of the Covenant because God separated them from all other laws. God exalted the Ten Commandments by design, and if God did so, there is a reason, probably because there is no other law out there that doesn't have some umbrella under the Ten Commandments. If everyone was keeping the Ten Commandments the way Jesus taught they are supposed to be kept, there would be no more sin. Our God knows what He is doing and its really why keeping them should be mans all, because we love Him and want to do what He asks and have faith He knows whats best for us, even if it doesn't make sense. It will be what we are Judged by Ecc12:13-14 James 2:11-12 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15 , God's version, the way He wrote and spoke, not what man has done to alter and edit the very writings of God, He told us not to. Deut 4:2 Mat 5:18-19 Psa 89:34.

By the way Law and Prophets is another way to say God's Word. The law and prophets or whole Bible hangs on the greatest commandments, Love God with everything and love our neighbor and the Ten Commandments shows us how to love God (commandments 1-4) and how to love our neighbor (commandments 5-10). Deut 5-6 Rom 13:9 Love to God and love to our neighbor never went undefined 1 John 5:3 depending on what we "feel" is love, is not the same. Love is not a feeling, its a call to action. Exo 20:6 John 14:15 John 15:10 1 John 5:3

I know we won't agree on this and that's OK. We can debate until we are blue in the face. God is the arbitrator of His Truth - I believe He spells this out for us- quite literally Psa 119:151 but we will all find out soon enough at His soon return and I pray we will all be able to stand in His presence when He comes.
 
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Leaf473

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All the commandments teach us how to love God and love our neighbor :heart:

The land shall not be sold in perpetuity, for the land is mine; for you are strangers and live as foreigners with me. 24 In all the land of your possession you shall grant a redemption for the land

The earth is the Lord’s, with its fullness;
the world, and those who dwell in it.
2 For he has founded it on the seas,
and established it on the floods
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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Jesus was born, lived, preached and died under the Old Covenant law.

Christ rested on the Sabbath according to the Old Covenant law.

The feast of tabernacles is a commandment

These are the commandments which the Lord commanded Moses for the children of Israel on Mount Sinai Leviticus 27

Blessed is the person who fears the Lord, who delights greatly in his commandments Psalm 112
Leaf the commandments are the base or core of GOD's laws many of GOD's laws cannot be followed today such as the sacrificial laws. Please do refer to these laws directly from the first 5 books of the bible, there you can see for yourself that they many cannot be followed , times have changed, a New covenant was established, rely on Christ for all , enter his rest.
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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Hi JFF :wave:

I post scriptures that talk about how we approach the law in the New Covenant

Do you believe anything in the law of Moses can be changed?

Let your tender mercies come to me, that I may live; for your law is my delight Psalm 119
some laws were for another time, what was given then was for that time, Jesus did not abolish any but established the new covenant, explained how to follow the law properly, from the heart not from a purely legalistic view.

see these examples;

Anger​

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Lust​

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Divorce​

Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Oaths​

Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Retaliation​

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thycloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Love Your Enemies​

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
 
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Leaf473

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Leaf the commandments are the base or core of GOD's laws many of GOD's laws cannot be followed today such as the sacrificial laws. Please do refer to these laws directly from the first 5 books of the bible, there you can see for yourself that they many cannot be followed , times have changed, a New covenant was established, rely on Christ for all , enter his rest.
Right, there are lots of commandments in the scriptures :thumbsup:

I believe post #27 was implying that a commandment cannot be a ritual

But it looks like we agree that they can :thumbsup:

And that's why we don't keep many of them today, at least not as they are written :)
 
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Leaf473

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some laws were for another time, what was given then was for that time, Jesus did not abolish any but established the new covenant, explained how to follow the law properly, from the heart not from a purely legalistic view.
Absolutely!

see these examples;

Anger​

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Lust​

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Divorce​

Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Oaths​

Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Retaliation​

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thycloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Love Your Enemies​

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Great examples :thumbsup:

Now, the commandment to forgive debts every 50 years... I invite you to explain from the scriptures why that commandment is for another time or for today :heart:

I will bow down toward your holy temple, and give thanks to your Name for your loving kindness and for your truth; for you have exalted your Name and your Word above all psalm 138
 
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DamianWarS

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Damian I can't help point out when you say "10 commandment vacuum" which is used in a derogatory way, who are you saying this about and against? This is God's personal Testimony you are speaking about. In the Bible, people died just for touching God's Testimony when they weren't supposed to. When the ark fell in enemy hands, they immediately gave it back to Israel because what God did to them for having His Testimony when they weren't supposed to. You might consider it a vacuum, but its the God of the Universes own personal written and spoken Testimony that is in His Most Holy under His mercy seat, where justice and mercy will come together soon. Rev 11:18-19 Exo 20:6
NT teaching, particularly the two greatest commandments, Jesus refers to the all the law and the prophets. You seem to be only desire to validate the 10 despite Christ's words. The 10 are contained in all the law indeed, but you seem to fail to see logic problem of using verses like these to point to the 10 since there is nothing unique that Christ is claiming here over the 10 that he doesn't claim over any part of the law.

I'm not aware of anyone dying from touching the tablets, it was the ark of the covenant that was the risk. The ark contains the tablets, so what is the ark today? The thing that contains the law of God is our hearts and we are the ark of the covenant, we carry with us his laws written upon our hearts, his authority, and life and his very presence.

Exo 32:16 16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.
Exo 31:1818 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Deut 4:13 13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
These reference don't transform Christ's words from "All the law and the prophets" to "the 10 Commandments" so I'm it sure the role you want them to have in this discussion since you've left it without commentary.
The Ten Commandments were already separated by God. God only both wrote and spoke "Ten Commandments" no more were added because Gods Testimony is complete, why Scripture tells us no more was added Deut 5:22. There are no other laws inside the ark of the Covenant because God separated them from all other laws. God exalted the Ten Commandments by design, and if God did so, there is a reason, probably because there is no other law out there that doesn't have some umbrella under the Ten Commandments. If everyone was keeping the Ten Commandments the way Jesus taught they are supposed to be kept, there would be no more sin. Our God knows what He is doing and its really why keeping them should be mans all, because we love Him and want to do what He asks and have faith He knows whats best for us, even if it doesn't make sense. It will be what we are Judged by Ecc12:13-14 James 2:11-12 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15 , God's version, the way He wrote and spoke, not what man has done to alter and edit the very writings of God, He told us not to. Deut 4:2 Mat 5:18-19 Psa 89:34.
You might be right, certainly the 10 is regarded as special yet Christ still indiscriminately refers to "all the law the prophets" when address the greatest.
By the way Law and Prophets is another way to say God's Word. The law and prophets or whole Bible hangs on the greatest commandments, Love God with everything and love our neighbor and the Ten Commandments shows us how to love God (commandments 1-4) and how to love our neighbor (commandments 5-10). Deut 5-6 Rom 13:9 Love to God and love to our neighbor never went undefined 1 John 5:3 depending on what we "feel" is love, is not the same. Love is not a feeling, its a call to action. Exo 20:6 John 14:15 John 15:10 1 John 5:3
Are you trying to conflating the term "all the law and prophets" with "the 10 commandments"? The 2 commandments Christ says is the greatest appears outside the 10. It seems to be your position that all the law and the prophets flow from the 10 so it's pointless to even discuss anything else yet Christ never says this so who told you this? He is explicit which commandments are the greatest. I may follow the 10 to the letter and still not love God, and still not love my neighbour. The 10 do not even use the word love.

They are good things to keep broadly speaking but they do not address love, not for God or for my neighbour. Christ's law cannot summarize the 10 because the 10 are not about love, they are about resisting sinful behaviour (and keeping the sabbath)

I know we won't agree on this and that's OK. We can debate until we are blue in the face. God is the arbitrator of His Truth - I believe He spells this out for us- quite literally Psa 119:151 but we will all find out soon enough at His soon return and I pray we will all be able to stand in His presence when He comes.
platitudes and conflating are not a critical way of approaching this topic. Indeed all his commandments are true... What do you suppose "all" means? It seems all you see is the 10. The context is the Psalm is

145 I call with all my heart; answer me, Lord,
and I will obey your decrees.
146 I call out to you; save me
and I will keep your statutes.
147 I rise before dawn and cry for help;
I have put my hope in your word.
148 My eyes stay open through the watches of the night,
that I may meditate on your promises.
149 Hear my voice in accordance with your love;
preserve my life, Lord, according to your laws.
150 Those who devise wicked schemes are near,
but they are far from your law.
151 Yet you are near, Lord,
and all your commands are true.
152 Long ago I learned from your statutes
that you established them to last forever.

The text uses decrees, statutes, word, promises, laws, God's law, commandments and statues again. Yet all you can do is use this passage to conflat the word "commandments" with the 10, missing the whole point of the Psalm which is far greater. I can't condon this word-search methodology to establish sweeping doctrine while at the same time seemingly unaware of the context of these verses in question.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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platitudes and conflating are not a critical way of approaching this topic. Indeed all his commandments are true... What do you suppose "all" means? It seems all you see is the 10. The context is the Psalm is

145 I call with all my heart; answer me, Lord,
and I will obey your decrees.
146 I call out to you; save me
and I will keep your statutes.
147 I rise before dawn and cry for help;
I have put my hope in your word.
148 My eyes stay open through the watches of the night,
that I may meditate on your promises.
149 Hear my voice in accordance with your love;
preserve my life, Lord, according to your laws.
150 Those who devise wicked schemes are near,
but they are far from your law.
151 Yet you are near, Lord,
and all your commands are true.
152 Long ago I learned from your statutes
that you established them to last forever.

The text uses decrees, statutes, word, promises, laws, God's law, commandments and statues again. Yet all you can do is use this passage to conflat the word "commandments" with the 10, missing the whole point of the Psalm which is far greater. I can't condon this word-search methodology to establish sweeping doctrine while at the same time seemingly unaware of the context of these verses in question.
I have never said there are not other laws, statues, ordinances etc. Scripture tells us plainly there is Neh 9:13 but God alone only wrote and spoke Ten Commandments and God exalted these commandments above all the rest when He placed them inside the ark of the covenant under His mercy seat. His personal Testimony Exo 31:18 This doesn't change God's Truth Psa 119:151

I don't think we come to an agreement. I'll let the Scriptures I posted speak for themselves and guess we will have to agree to disagree, but wish you well.
 
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Leaf473

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The Ten commandments teach us a lot about loving God and each other

Many other commandments do that, as well

The instruction that the land not be sold permanently would teach us things about that, also

woe to you you who buy up house after house and field after field, until everyone else is evicted and you live alone in the land Isaiah 5
 
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guevaraj

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I get it, but Christ's context is all "the law and prophets" his statement is not motivated at separating the 10 or looking at a 10 commandment vacuum (and then further dividing the 10 in 2 groups) as it seems is the focus here. Scripture never makes those distinctions nor does it ever label or disect law this way.
Brother, Paul separates the Ten Commandments "etched in stone" from the rest of the law when he tells us that Jesus is the model of obedience superior to the traditions of Judaism regarding the "letters etched in stone." Paul is not referring to all the laws, as the translators have forced, but only to the "letters etched in stone."

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ. It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (circumcision is no longer done by humans). Our qualification comes from God (Jesus does the circumcision for us by removing Judaism's human traditions that cancel the Ten Commandments' removal of sin). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus as superior model of obedience to the Ten Commandments). This is a covenant not of the letter (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them). The letter ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but the Spirit gives life (Jesus' circumcision of Judaism's disobedience for us to obey completely the Ten Commandments). The old way, with letters etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (which is His righteousness expressed in the Ten Commandments), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's disobedience to the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror who obeyed completely the Ten Commandments for us to do likewise), now that the Holy (added by the translators) Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror) gives life? If the old way, which brings condemnation (Judaism teaching disobedience to the Ten Commandments by canceling them with human traditions), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever! Since this new way (of imaging as in a mirror the model "Spirit" of Jesus, rather than Judaism's teachings of disobedience) gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (learning to use God's name properly, which Judaism does not). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (of God's righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (by Judaism's growing disobedience to the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to disobey the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of their disobedience by canceling God's Commandments with their own human traditions). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (as the circumciser of Judaism's human traditions that cancel the Ten Commandments purpose to remove sin). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they disobey the Ten Commandments by canceling them with human traditions). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror who obeyed the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (in obeying completely the Ten Commandments by removing Judaism's disobedience). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to image as in a mirror and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to image as in a mirror)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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DamianWarS

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woe to you you who buy up house after house and field after field, until everyone else is evicted and you live alone in the land Isaiah 5
Correct me if I'm wrong @SabbathBlessings but do you see this as "not independent" (sorry for the double negative) of the 10 and instead flowing out of the 10 therefor a dependent? I'm trying to understand how this 10-commandment-centric motivation works.

For myself I do not see the law flowing from the 10, for example circumcision predates the 10, even pre-dates Moses, yet was intrinsic to the covenant establish with Abraham. If you refused to get circumcised you were banished from Israel using the ironic language "cut off". the 7th day itself pre-dates Sabbath law, Sabbath commandment even predates the 4th so does the 7th day (or early sabbath commandments) flow from the 4th or is it the 4th that flows from the 7th day?

I don't mean this facetiously, I think I know your answer but I don't understand by what measure you use to establish the hierarchy of these things. To me Christ told us the measure, and that's what I use, I guess you just see the 10 which seems cryptic to me.
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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Absolutely!


Great examples :thumbsup:

Now, the commandment to forgive debts every 50 years... I invite you to explain from the scriptures why that commandment is for another time or for today :heart:

I will bow down toward your holy temple, and give thanks to your Name for your loving kindness and for your truth; for you have exalted your Name and your Word above all psalm 138
Hello Leaf, I certainly do not have the wisdom to interpret all these Laws but I can tell you this, if any law finds themselves in agreement with any of the Ten Commandments or like Jesus said when he summarized the commandments in; Love your god with all your strength and heard and Love your neighbor as yourself, they certainly could be followed if still applicable today. Many laws have for their basis the ten commandments and are derived from them, I did post a thread about something like this you can have a look;


if you could point to me the verse for the law you mentionned "to forgive debts every 50 years" I could look it up if you wish.

Blessings
 
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Leaf473

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Hello Leaf, I certainly do not have the wisdom to interpret all these Laws but I can tell you this, if any law finds themselves in agreement with any of the Ten Commandments or like Jesus said when he summarized the commandments in; Love your god with all your strength and heard and Love your neighbor as yourself, they certainly could be followed if still applicable today. Many laws have for their basis the ten commandments and are derived from them, I did post a thread about something like this you can have a look;


if you could point to me the verse for the law you mentionned "to forgive debts every 50 years" I could look it up if you wish.

Blessings
You shall count off seven Sabbaths of years, seven times seven years; and there shall be to you the days of seven Sabbaths of years, even forty-nine years. 9 Then you shall sound the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month. On the Day of Atonement you shall sound the trumpet throughout all your land. 10 You shall make the fiftieth year holy, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee to you; and each of you shall return to his own property, and each of you shall return to his family Leviticus 25

Again, scriptures as to whether this is for today or another time :) An issue is sometimes made about presenting personal opinions. If there aren't any scriptures, that's fine :thumbsup:
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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You shall count off seven Sabbaths of years, seven times seven years; and there shall be to you the days of seven Sabbaths of years, even forty-nine years. 9 Then you shall sound the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month. On the Day of Atonement you shall sound the trumpet throughout all your land. 10 You shall make the fiftieth year holy, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee to you; and each of you shall return to his own property, and each of you shall return to his family Leviticus 25

Again, scriptures as to whether this is for today or another time :) An issue is sometimes made about presenting personal opinions. If there aren't any scriptures, that's fine :thumbsup:
thank you Leaf I will explore this and get back to you,

Have a good sabbath
 
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Leaf473

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JesusFollowerForever

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You shall count off seven Sabbaths of years, seven times seven years; and there shall be to you the days of seven Sabbaths of years, even forty-nine years. 9 Then you shall sound the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month. On the Day of Atonement you shall sound the trumpet throughout all your land. 10 You shall make the fiftieth year holy, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee to you; and each of you shall return to his own property, and each of you shall return to his family Leviticus 25

Again, scriptures as to whether this is for today or another time :) An issue is sometimes made about presenting personal opinions. If there aren't any scriptures, that's fine :thumbsup:
This discussion is not the scope of this thread, but somehow can be linked with REST. If we need to discuss other laws we could continue on another thread, perhaps the one I started and that I gave you a link to.

Leviticus 25 primarily deals with the Sabbatical Year (every seventh year) and the Year of Jubilee (every fiftieth year). These were special times ordained by God for the land and the people of Israel, focusing on rest, release, and restoration.
These laws had a purpose at thet time to prevent the perpetual poverty of families and the accumulation of excessive land by a few. The Jubile ensured a periodic redistribution and a fresh start and also to to provide release for those who had become servants due to economic hardship.

Both the Sabbatical and Jubilee years required the Israelites to trust that God would provide for them even when they were not working the land. see the parallel in Exodus 16 about this it all means :"THE LORD WILL PROVIDE" it requires loving Trust on our part. These laws served the israelites to Remember that GOD delivered them from the Egyptians , Please refer to exodus 6:1-11

These laws also reminded the Israelites that the land and they themselves belonged to God and allowed the land to recover its fertility.

These laws were specifically given to the Israelites as they were about to enter the Promised Land. The regulations concerning land ownership and the release of Hebrew servants were particular to their covenant relationship with God and their life in that land.

The specific regulations of Leviticus 25 regarding the Sabbatical and Jubilee years are not directly applicable to Gentile Christians today. These were part of the Old Covenant law given to the nation of Israel thousands of years ago.

The principles behind these laws are still relevant today;
The concept of a Sabbath rest (both for people and even for the environment) is a recurring theme in Scripture and has enduring value. The concern for the poor, the prevention of long-term destitution, and the idea of release or rest and restoration reflect God's character and are principles that believers should consider. Recognizing that all we have ultimately belongs to God should influence how we use our resources.

Blessings
 
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SabbathBlessings

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@DamianWarS
Circumcision was not before the Ten Commandments.

God said right in the Ten Commandments that came in a unit of Ten, not 9 or 1 Deut 4:13 this connecting the commandments with Creation.

Exo 20: 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, and the Greek word He used means mankind, Hebrew word means Adam and He is speaking of when both man and the Sabbath were made which was at Creation, thus saith the Lord. You can't Remember something if it just started and God told us when it started at Creation Exo 2:11

Why when there is no law there is no sin Rom 4:15. And sin started in heaven so therefore so did God's law 1 John 3:8

God's earthy temple was a miniature of His heavenly Temple Heb 8:1-5 and He told Moses the pattern which to build the earthy temple so God could tabernacle with His people Exodus 25:8. The earthy sanctuary is a blueprint of salvation why His way is the the sanctuary Psalm 77:13

The angels covering the Ten Commandments in the Most Holy was a representation of what is in heaven. Lucifer was a covering cherub meaning he was a literal angel covering the Ten Commandments Eze 28:14 Isa 14:12 he also rebelled against God's law and sinned 1 John 3:8 and unfortunately was able to deceive 1/3 of the angels and our first parents when Eve sinned by coveting something she was not supposed to and stealing something that wasn't hers breaking the Ten Commandments.

Circumcision was not part of Creation, did not start before the Ten Commandments it came after the fall of man.

God still has His Ten Commandments in the Most Holy of His Temple under His mercy seat, where justice and mercy will come together soon. Why we see them revealed at the last trumpet before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 11:18-19 God saying right in the Ten Commandments engraved by His finger Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. A theme throughout the whole Bible up to reconciliation Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
 
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