What happened to those who believe in UR.

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StudentoftheWord

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I'm intensely intersted in this UR topic and have started reading as much as I can. It seems that there are UR believers who have poor theology and UR believers that have strong theological arguments. There are certainly UR arguments that maintain the divinity of Jesus and still strongly maintain that there is no salvation except through Him. The view of scripture that they hold and the subsequent arguments for UR are very, very convincing and certainly make more sense of the character of God the Father than the eternal torment believers. They maintian that all who do not believe in Jesus will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (whatever that means) and will through severe judgement (no holding back on the severity of the judgement) will learn righteousness and repent, bowing their knee to Jesus in the ages (plural) to come. This is the gist of the type of UR that seems to have a strong biblical basis and not the concept of "don't worry about repentence or the preaching of the gospel because all will be saved anyway" - which is ridiculous and totally unscriptural.
I must admit, as a keen student of the Bible, there are certain aspects of UR that have a very strong biblical argument and I'm very interested.

I am glad you are interested. I am a Student of the Word, and you just described the what I know to be true. There is two types of universalism, Unitarian Universalism and Christian Universalism. Many people, in their ignorance, fight against the Unitarian Universalist position, of which even the Christian Universalists disagree with. I certainly do not believe in a 'don't worry be happy' approach to salvation. There will still be those who face the Lake of Fire (whatever that means ;)) and there will be those who will be spared.

If you ever want to check out more: www.ultimategrace.com or http://www.universalreconciliation.info/
 
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KCDAD

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I am glad you are interested. I am a Student of the Word, and you just described the what I know to be true. There is two types of universalism, Unitarian Universalism and Christian Universalism. Many people, in their ignorance, fight against the Unitarian Universalist position, of which even the Christian Universalists disagree with. I certainly do not believe in a 'don't worry be happy' approach to salvation. There will still be those who face the Lake of Fire (whatever that means ) and there will be those who will be spared.

If you ever want to check out more: www.ultimategrace.com or http://www.universalreconciliation.info/
Doesn't this elitism disturb you in the least? I have studied Marx but that doesn't make me a Communist nor a comedian.

Here you are condemning some people to a "lake of fire" and you apparently have no idea what it is.;)
 
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mick24458

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Doesn't this elitism disturb you in the least? I have studied Marx but that doesn't make me a Communist nor a comedian.

Here you are condemning some people to a "lake of fire" and you apparently have no idea what it is.;)
Well, my Bible does clearly say that anyone whose name is not found in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire. My understanidng is that the Eternal Torture believers say this is a literal Hell and Universalists say that it is symbolic of the judgement for all those who don't know Christ at the end of this age but not the finality for the ages to come.
In a nutshell, is that correct?????
I say "The Lake of Fire, whatever that is, in the context of not really understanding what sort of judgement this will be, except that it is also called The Second Death. Whatever it is, we would certainly want to warn people to turn to Christ now rather than be thrown into the Lake of Fire, whatever that is ;) .
Keen to hear any UR understanding of the Lake of Fire & Second Death.
 
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KCDAD

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Well, my Bible does clearly say that anyone whose name is not found in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire. My understanidng is that the Eternal Torture believers say this is a literal Hell and Universalists say that it is symbolic of the judgement for all those who don't know Christ at the end of this age but not the finality for the ages to come.
In a nutshell, is that correct?????
I say "The Lake of Fire, whatever that is, in the context of not really understanding what sort of judgement this will be, except that it is also called The Second Death. Whatever it is, we would certainly want to warn people to turn to Christ now rather than be thrown into the Lake of Fire, whatever that is ;) .
Keen to hear any UR understanding of the Lake of Fire & Second Death.
Well I think it is very clear in scripture that both Death and Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire... unfortunately... that is not clear and it is certainly not understandable...

So we now have people (or their souls... not their bodies), Hell itself (is that Hades, the Greek god of the underworld or the underworld itself) and Death (a concept of no clear meaning... since death was defeated by the resurrection... death has always been culturally defined so I am not sure what we are actually casting into the lake when we say "Death")

... and somehow this image of a Lake of Fire has meaning for you?
 
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Soul Searcher

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Keen to hear any UR understanding of the Lake of Fire & Second Death.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
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Tavita

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Well, my Bible does clearly say that anyone whose name is not found in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire. My understanidng is that the Eternal Torture believers say this is a literal Hell and Universalists say that it is symbolic of the judgement for all those who don't know Christ at the end of this age but not the finality for the ages to come.
In a nutshell, is that correct?????
I say "The Lake of Fire, whatever that is, in the context of not really understanding what sort of judgement this will be, except that it is also called The Second Death. Whatever it is, we would certainly want to warn people to turn to Christ now rather than be thrown into the Lake of Fire, whatever that is ;) .
Keen to hear any UR understanding of the Lake of Fire & Second Death.

Hi Mick,

I've learned recently that we will find much in the Law concerning the future ages, especially the law of redemption and the year of Jubilee, in a sense they are tied together. The Law shows God's judgments on sin, and not once does He ever sentence someone to torture, let alone eternal torture for disobeying His Law. Death, yes, and Jesus has paid the redemption price for sin and death. God will always obey His own Law, and will judge according to His Law.

Here's a link to a site of Dr Stephen Jones and his teaching on how the Law shows all men are saved...

http://www.gods-kingdom.org

You can view his books online there.
 
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Tube Socks Dude

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Out of 5255 ancient manuscripts, 45 are what we call alexandrian, and 5210 make us the textus receptus. The 45 are responsible for the westcott hort translation in greek, westcott hort by the way neither believed that the scriptures are inerrant, and all this mess is responsible for the niv, which not so ironicly allows the universalist doctrine to be set forth. The 5210 manuscripts making up the textus receptus, and the King Jamers Version, EXCLUDE and ELIMINATE universalist doctrine.

συγγνώμη John1and1; as per my previous post, I'm still waiting for you to kindly provide specific verses where the Alexandrian differs from Textus Receptus. Exactly where does the Alexandrian text promote Universalism while the Textus Receptus "excludes and eliminates" it?

TSD
 
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StudentoftheWord

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Doesn't this elitism disturb you in the least? I have studied Marx but that doesn't make me a Communist nor a comedian.

Here you are condemning some people to a "lake of fire" and you apparently have no idea what it is.;)

I know exactly what it is. It is well documented in Scripture but I was only repeating the phrase used by mick24458. He was correct about the two types of Univresalism. Most people who argue against Universalism are actually addressing the Unitarian position and not the Christian position of universalism.

:)
 
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StudentoftheWord

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Well, my Bible does clearly say that anyone whose name is not found in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire. My understanidng is that the Eternal Torture believers say this is a literal Hell and Universalists say that it is symbolic of the judgement for all those who don't know Christ at the end of this age but not the finality for the ages to come.
In a nutshell, is that correct?????

Correct.

I say "The Lake of Fire, whatever that is, in the context of not really understanding what sort of judgement this will be, except that it is also called The Second Death. Whatever it is, we would certainly want to warn people to turn to Christ now rather than be thrown into the Lake of Fire, whatever that is ;) .
Keen to hear any UR understanding of the Lake of Fire & Second Death.

Lake of Fire is Second Death. It is the death of the covenant with death and it is the annulment of the agreement with hell. It came 2000 years ago and continues to burn against anyone who continues to rely on the covenant of death and the agreement with the grave. It is Gehenna Judgment declared against Israel, Judah, Jerusalem and the Temple and is reserved for those who continue in unbelief.

As Jesus said, it is better to cut off a part of the body than to be thrown whoe into Gehenna Judgment.
 
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mick24458

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Well I think it is very clear in scripture that both Death and Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire... unfortunately... that is not clear and it is certainly not understandable...

So we now have people (or their souls... not their bodies), Hell itself (is that Hades, the Greek god of the underworld or the underworld itself) and Death (a concept of no clear meaning... since death was defeated by the resurrection... death has always been culturally defined so I am not sure what we are actually casting into the lake when we say "Death")

... and somehow this image of a Lake of Fire has meaning for you?
Yeah! it at least represents God getting rid of all that is negative and bad and that's gotta be really good news!:D
 
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mick24458

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Want to go ahead and take a shot at the $64,000 question? How are hell and death cast into this lake of fire?

Gehenna... NOT Gehenna Judgment. Gehenna is The Valley of Hinnom... a real place... you can find it on a map of Jerusalem.
It's actually death and Hades (translated hell by some as is Gehenna). Death will be no more and the place of the dead will be no more. Great news eh? especially because death is the last enemy to be destroyed - once it's gone, no more bad stuff. Hooray for Jesus!!!!!!!
 
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It is just a coincidence, because a few were upset or felt shunned by certain individuals who kept calling them, "non-Christian" and now, when we are finally recognized by Christian Forums as Christian, they are nowhere. So Christian Universalists, where are you? :D

Hello,
Here we are....

There is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, to be testified in due time (1 Timothy 2:5-6).

God works all things after the counsel of His will (Ephesians 1:11).

God will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4).

The word of God which goes forth from His mouth; It shall not return to Him empty, without accomplishing what He desires, and without succeeding in the matter for which He sent it (Isaiah 55:11).

We have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially [Greek: "malista" = most of all, not "only"] of believers (1 Timothy 4:10).

It does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy (Romans 9:16).

God has shut up all men in disobedience that He may show mercy to all (Romans 11:32).

No one can resist His will (Romans 9:19).

The grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men (Titus 2:11).

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy (Titus 3:5).

All nations whom the Lord hast made shall come and worship before Him; and they shall glorify His name (Psalms 86:9).

All the kings of the earth will give thanks to the Lord, when they have heard the words of His mouth. And they will sing of the ways of the Lord (Psalms 138:4).

The Lord will accomplish what concerns us (Psalms 138:8).

All flesh will bless His holy name forever and ever (Psalms 145:21).

The Lord wilt establish peace for us, since He hast also performed for us all our works (Isaiah 26:12).

The glory of the Lord will be revealed, and all flesh will see it together (Isaiah 40:5).

All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him (Isaiah 53:6).

A man's way is not in himself; Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps (Jeremiah 10:23).

The Lord will not reject forever, for if He causes grief, then He will have compassion according to His abundant lovingkindness (Lam. 3:31).

We are from all over the Bible....

Grace and Peace to you.....Always!
 
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KCDAD

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It's actually death and Hades (translated hell by some as is Gehenna). Death will be no more and the place of the dead will be no more. Great news eh? especially because death is the last enemy to be destroyed - once it's gone, no more bad stuff. Hooray for Jesus!!!!!!!
Hades will be no more... The Greek myth will be no more... (you know of course, Hades was a person in Greek mythology, not a place.) I'm glad you realize we are not talking about hell, Sheol or The Valley of Hinnom.

My real problem lies with the idea that ..."getting rid of all that is negative and bad"... means people. I have a lot more faith in my creator than to think we are not exactly what was intended.
 
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StudentoftheWord

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Want to go ahead and take a shot at the $64,000 question? How are hell and death cast into this lake of fire?

Gehenna... NOT Gehenna Judgment. Gehenna is The Valley of Hinnom... a real place... you can find it on a map of Jerusalem.
Gehenna Judgment still exists today even though Gehenna it'self is no longer. Full Preterism has no biblical basis, the judgment did not occurr in 70 AD. It happened in 33 AD.

Gehenna is still reserved for those who resurrected the covenant with Death and the agreement of the Grave. That is, as we all know, most of traditional Christianity.

Romans 11:17-22
If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Now 70 A.D. is a result of Gehenna Judgment, but it not Gehenna nor Gehenna Judgment. Those who continue to follow the Law (the covenant of death) and believe there is a place you can hide from God (the agreement with the grave), you too will find yourself subject to that Judgment.

If you want to do study on it you need to actually read what Jeremiah and Isaiah spoke concerning it.

You know how Hebrew works? If I say Lion, I mean Judah. If I say Tree, I mean nation. If I say Gehenna, I mean Judgment.

Gehenna... NOT Gehenna Judgment.


Matthew 23:33
`Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?
 
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KCDAD

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Matthew 23:33
`Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?

What you are translating as judgment is
2920. krisis (kree'-sis)


decision (subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension, a tribunal; by implication, justice (especially, divine law)

accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.

What would be the judgment of a garbage dump? More likely the Greek means Justice (as the Vulgate translated it)

The justice of being thrown away, discarded into the garbage dump.

Note, of course, the similarity between Krisis and Crisis in English... perhaps it can also mean the crisis of Gehenna. Gehenna was the threat parents would tell their children: "If you misbehave you will be thrown into the garbage dump" That wold certainly be a crisis for a child.
 
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StudentoftheWord

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What would be the judgment of a garbage dump? More likely the Greek means Justice (as the Vulgate translated it)

Yes but you still think the GARBAGE dump was the judgment. At least you understand what others do not, that the garbage dump is significant to something, it is not hell (as translated by KJV) or Sheol or any other place of the dead. I recommend you read Jeremiah, 2 Kings and Isaiah.

It is not a judgment of a garbage dump. It a judgment that came out of the Valley of Ben Hinnom, which is why it was turned INTO a garbage dump by Josiah as he descrated the high places to Molech to remind Israel and Judah of the judgment proclaimed against it.

2 Kings 23:10-11, 15-20, 26-27
He desecrated Topheth, which was in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, so no one could use it to sacrifice his son or daughter in the fire to Molech.He removed from the entrance to the temple of the LORD the horses that the kings of Judah had dedicated to the sun. They were in the court near the room of an official named Nathan-Melech. Josiah then burned the chariots dedicated to the sun.

Even the altar at Bethel, the high place made by Jeroboam son of Nebat, who had caused Israel to sin—even that altar and high place he demolished. He burned the high place and ground it to powder, and burned the Asherah pole also. Then Josiah looked around, and when he saw the tombs that were there on the hillside, he had the bones removed from them and burned on the altar to defile it, in accordance with the word of the LORD proclaimed by the man of God who foretold these things.

The king asked, "What is that tombstone I see?"

The men of the city said, "It marks the tomb of the man of God who came from Judah and pronounced against the altar of Bethel the very things you have done to it."

"Leave it alone," he said. "Don't let anyone disturb his bones." So they spared his bones and those of the prophet who had come from Samaria.

Just as he had done at Bethel, Josiah removed and defiled all the shrines at the high places that the kings of Israel had built in the towns of Samaria that had provoked the LORD to anger. Josiah slaughtered all the priests of those high places on the altars and burned human bones on them. Then he went back to Jerusalem.

The JUDGMENT OF GEHENNA

Nevertheless, the LORD did not turn away from the heat of his fierce anger, which burned against Judah because of all that Manasseh had done to provoke him to anger. So the LORD said, "I will remove Judah also from my presence as I removed Israel, and I will reject Jerusalem, the city I chose, and this temple, about which I said, 'There shall my Name be.'"

Note, of course, the similarity between Krisis and Crisis in English... perhaps it can also mean the crisis of Gehenna. Gehenna was the threat parents would tell their children: "If you misbehave you will be thrown into the garbage dump" That wold certainly be a crisis for a child.

From this, you have demonstrated a huge misunderstanding of Gehenna. It has not entered the mind, nor has God EVER commanded to throw anyone to the fires of Gehenna. It was NOT God who did this.

Even though you are correct concerning it being a garbage dump. It was the place where criminals who broke the Law's bodies were thrown, it was not always meant in this manner. It all depended on the context and the audience Jesus was talking to. In Matthew 5, it was talking about a garbage pit. In Matthew 10, it was talking about what the Apostate Jew did and in Matthew 23, it was talking about the judgment that came out of what the Apostate Jew did.

It was not, "If you misbehave you will be thrown into the garbage dump." It was, "Because Israel and Judah have sinned by throwing their children in to the fires of Gehenna, I will cut you off and reject you, the city and the temple!"

The judgment that came out of Gehenna was as 2 Kings mentioned: Because of their sin, "I will remove Judah also from my presence as I removed Israel, and I will reject Jerusalem, the city I chose, and this temple, about which I said, 'There shall my Name be.'"

Let us read more...

Jeremiah 7:31
They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind.

The JUDGMENT OF GEHENNA
Therefore, behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when it will no longer be called Topheth, or the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of the Slaughter; for they will bury in Topheth because there is no other place.

Jeremiah 19:14-15, 3-6
The JUDGMENT OF GEHENNA
Then Jeremiah came from Topheth, where the LORD had sent him to prophesy; and he stood in the court of the LORD'S house and said to all the people: Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, 'Behold, I am about to bring on this city and all its towns the entire calamity that I have declared against it, because they have stiffened their necks so as not to heed My words.'

'Hear the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, "Behold I am about to bring a calamity upon this place, at which the ears of everyone that hears of it will tingle.

Because they have forsaken Me and have made this an alien place and have burned sacrifices in it to other gods, that neither they nor their forefathers nor the kings of Judah had ever known, and because they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind; therefore, behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when this place will no longer be called Topheth or the valley of Ben-hinnom, but rather the valley of Slaughter.

Isaiah 28:14
Therefore, hear the word of the LORD, O scoffers,Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem, Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with death, and with Sheol (grave) we have made a pact the overwhelming scourge will not reach us when it passes by,for we have made falsehood our refuge and we have concealed ourselves with deception."

The JUDGMENT OF GEHENNA
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone, a costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed. I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the level;

Then hail will sweep away the refuge of lies and the waters will overflow the secret place. Your covenant with death will be canceled, and your pact with Sheol (grave) will not stand; when the overwhelming scourge passes through, then you become its trampling place.

"As often as it passes through, it will seize you; for morning after morning it will pass through, anytime during the day or night, and it will be sheer terror to understand what it means."

Isaiah 30:33, 33:10-14
For Topheth has long been ready, indeed, it has been prepared for the king he has made it deep and large, a pyre of fire with plenty of wood; The breath of the LORD, like a torrent of brimstone, sets it afire.

"Now I will arise," says the LORD, "Now I will be exalted, now I will be lifted up. You have conceived chaff, you will give birth to stubble; My breath will consume you like a fire. The peoples will be burned to lime, like cut thorns which are burned in the fire. You who are far away, hear what I have done; and you who are near, acknowledge My might."

Sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling has seized the godless, "Who among us can live with the consuming fire? Who among us can live with continual burning?"

Now jump to Jesus in

Matthew 23:29-39
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being the Judgment of the Gehenna? Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

Now go back to Jeremiah 7

Jeremiah 7:28-33
THE JUDGMENT OF GEHENNA
Therefore say to them, 'This is the nation that has not obeyed the LORD its God or responded to correction. Truth has perished; it has vanished from their lips. Cut off your hair and throw it away; take up a lament on the barren heights, for the LORD has rejected and abandoned this generation that is under his wrath.

The Valley of Slaughter "'The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the LORD. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it. They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room. Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. I will bring an end to the sounds of joy and gladness and to the voices of bride and bridegroom in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, for the land will become desolate.

It is not the Garbage Dump, it is the Judgment that made it a Garbage Dump. It was defiled in order to remeind Judah, Israel, Jerusalem and the Temple, that they will be CUT OFF and REJECTED.

The judgment starts when God sends to them a Rock, a Cornerstone, a tested Stone. That Rock was and is Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Judgment of Gehenna, He was the one who came to baptize in Fire.

Now read Romans 9-11 and discover that Paul knew when Gehenna Judgment (the lake of Fire) occurred. It was in 33 AD, in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. When the Old Covenant was made obsolete and the New one was put into action. It was in that day, that Salvation had come to the world.

Romans 11:28-32
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Through the Judgment of the Gehenna, Israel was cut off and Salvation has come to the Gentiles! Universal Reconciliation, through Him all things are reconciled!
 
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Tavita

beside quiet waters He restores my soul..
Sep 20, 2004
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That's excellent teaching SOTW, and I'll save that one.

I think I may be a bit think headed but what do these verses have to do with the Gehenna judgment? Jesus is talking to the multitudes..

Mat 5:21 `Ye heard that it was said to the ancients: Thou shalt not kill, and whoever may kill shall be in danger of the judgment;
Mat 5:22 but I--I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the gehenna of the fire.


Mat 5:29 `But, if thy right eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.
Mat 5:30 `And, if thy right hand doth cause thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.

Jesus is talking about breaking the Law here. I just don't know how to connect it. I can understand Him speaking to the Pharisee's like this, but the common people?
 
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