What happened to those who believe in UR.

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nobdysfool

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Hi SOTW,

I check in from time to time. But have not felt the disre to post lately.

TGhat is great to hear CF has dropped the man made creeds.

Katmando
Yeah, those creeds are so inconvenient when they tell us that we shouldn't believe something the Word doesn't teach.....:doh:

Most of the creeds are very scriptural. Your argument is not with the creeds, but with scripture. Yes, the creeds were written by men, but they define what is acceptable teaching, and what is not. In short, they define orthodoxy. The Nicene Creed used to be the standard here, but it has been sacrificed to Relativism.

Universalism negates the Cross of Christ, and makes it irrelevant. No matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it's still a pig.
 
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Soul Searcher

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Universalism negates the Cross of Christ, and makes it irrelevant. No matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it's still a pig.
Actually universalism shows the full power of Christ to save all men, some non-Universalist beliefs place a limit on the power of Christ, others place limits on his love, many place limits on his mercy.
 
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Tavita

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Yeah, those creeds are so inconvenient when they tell us that we shouldn't believe something the Word doesn't teach.....:doh:

Most of the creeds are very scriptural.

I believe in the creeds, there's not many universalists who don't. I just think they're very basic, and universalism in no way goes against the creeds.
 
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StudentoftheWord

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I believe in the creeds, there's not many universalists who don't. I just think they're very basic, and universalism in no way goes against the creeds.

Yep. What I believe does not go against the creeds, what I believe lines up to the creeds, especially the Nicene Creed. Yet, for some reason those who do not believe what I do, think that what I believe contradicts the creeds.
 
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Bernie02

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How can one be saved if they do not hold to the doctirne that Jesus is God?
You speak as though you are a champion of the Bible, God's inerrant word--which I, a universalist Christian, also believe to be true--so let's test your metal. Do you believe this verse from the inerrant Bible, and this from the mouth of our Lord Himself?:

"....with God all things are possible." (Mat 19:26)

If you believe these words of your Savior to be true, you can go ahead, step down from your soapbox and go home. Forget the apologies to the universalist Christians on this board...we understand that sometimes passion for one's personal theology gets in the way of clear thinking.
 
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KCDAD

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Your list there is very misleading and incorrect at best

Personally if you are offended at the gospel im sorry but this isnt my problem. You also believe EVERYONE will be saved and this goes blatantly against the word of God. If you believe Jesus IS God then as a universalist you are in the minority.

Tell me something. How many manuscripts make up the 'Alexandrian' style, and WHY are they called 'alexandrian'?

Also do you realize Clement of alexandria was ALSO Origens teacher? Tell me please, the significance of the school they headed in Alexandria
So who is not saved? Only those God doesn't wish to save... so who would that be? Did you know that your belief in the cross and death of Jesus as atonement for your sin is not scriptural? In fact, the entire blood sacrifice idea in the first place is an abomination to the Lord. The Bible is very clear... your sacrifices mean nothing. All sacrifices are meaningless to a just and loving God. How could Jesus have forgiven someone's sin without dying first? The Gospels are full of stories of Jesus forgiving sin with just a word, a wave of the hand as if to say... "this is so unimportant, just forget about it".

Can you tell me where you got the idea that The Bible says that The Bible is the Word of God? It never does, you know. The closest you can get is the Letter to Timothy "All scripture is inspired by God and suitable for teaching...." and even that never says what scripture is (although it seems to refer to THE LAW only.) It certainly couldn't refer to stuff that hadn't been written yet.
 
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KCDAD

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Yeah, those creeds are so inconvenient when they tell us that we shouldn't believe something the Word doesn't teach.....:doh:

Most of the creeds are very scriptural. Your argument is not with the creeds, but with scripture. Yes, the creeds were written by men, but they define what is acceptable teaching, and what is not. In short, they define orthodoxy. The Nicene Creed used to be the standard here, but it has been sacrificed to Relativism.

Universalism negates the Cross of Christ, and makes it irrelevant. No matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it's still a pig.
The creeds for the most part are political compromises... as was the various Canon agreements. Hardly inspirational.
 
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childofGod31

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I would like to ask those who believe that all will be saved, how can you can explain away these verses?

What about Jesus saying: "away from me you evil doers, I never knew you" or MAT 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, "

2TH 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction

"Your father is the devil"

REV 22:14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

REV 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

REV 11:18 The time has come for judging the dead, ... and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
 
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KCDAD

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I would like to ask those who believe that all will be saved, how can you can explain away these verses?

What about Jesus saying: "away from me you evil doers, I never knew you" or MAT 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, "

2TH 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction

"Your father is the devil"

REV 22:14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

REV 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

REV 11:18 The time has come for judging the dead, ... and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
Jesus' words must be looked at carefully, especially with parables... as for the rest...Hyperbole.

The story of the sheep and the goats is an allusion to the commonly held idea that the Jews were the sheep and the Gentiles or Goyem were the goats. The Jews of course thought they were "in". Jesus is teaching that it isn't about what team you are on, but how you live your life. It is about what you do (to the least of these) not what you say or believe. Did you catch that? It isn't what you believe or what you say but how you treat others... no matter what you say or believe.
 
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mick24458

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I'm intensely intersted in this UR topic and have started reading as much as I can. It seems that there are UR believers who have poor theology and UR believers that have strong theological arguments. There are certainly UR arguments that maintain the divinity of Jesus and still strongly maintain that there is no salvation except through Him. The view of scripture that they hold and the subsequent arguments for UR are very, very convincing and certainly make more sense of the character of God the Father than the eternal torment believers. They maintian that all who do not believe in Jesus will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (whatever that means) and will through severe judgement (no holding back on the severity of the judgement) will learn righteousness and repent, bowing their knee to Jesus in the ages (plural) to come. This is the gist of the type of UR that seems to have a strong biblical basis and not the concept of "don't worry about repentence or the preaching of the gospel because all will be saved anyway" - which is ridiculous and totally unscriptural.
I must admit, as a keen student of the Bible, there are certain aspects of UR that have a very strong biblical argument and I'm very interested.
 
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Tavita

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The view of scripture that they hold and the subsequent arguments for UR are very, very convincing and certainly make more sense of the character of God the Father than the eternal torment believers.

This is what struck me when I first looked into UR. God's character... his putting 99% of the human race into a corner of the universe to suffer eternally (the English meaning of the word eternally) did not measure up to His character, His revealed will in scripture, or His Law. When as I saw it, it sat as true in my spirit. The more I study into it the more I see how wonderful my Lord is.. :bow:
 
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John1and1

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This is what struck me when I first looked into UR. God's character... his putting 99% of the human race into a corner of the universe to suffer eternally (the English meaning of the word eternally) did not measure up to His character, His revealed will in scripture, or His Law. When as I saw it, it sat as true in my spirit. The more I study into it the more I see how wonderful my Lord is.. :bow:
then I am afraid you dont understand the scriptures nor the nature of man nor the nature of God. You apparently have no understanding of the fact that God made a way of escape from what man got himself into, and yet most of the world refuses it.

Amazing the trap of hell and satan this website is...


http://p067.ezboard.com/bntymezapostacywarriorz
 
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Tavita

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then I am afraid you dont understand the scriptures nor the nature of man nor the nature of God. You apparently have no understanding of the fact that God made a way of escape from what man got himself into, and yet most of the world refuses it.

Amazing the trap of hell and satan this website is...


http://p067.ezboard.com/bntymezapostacywarriorz


I could throw links at you too, but I'll just bless you John1and1. :)
 
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John1and1

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I could throw links at you too, but I'll just bless you John1and1. :)
its not about throwing links, its about believing God and His word. You make God the bad guy with universalist doctrine and totally remove from man his responsibility for his own sins and the fact we are ALL deserving of hell. You deny the word which says God calls to us day and night and we reject Him. You put the burden of FURTHER responsibility on God when He paid the price with His own blood and then you call Him unrighteous because the world rejects His means of escape... But do you know what you REALLY are? You are becoming a fulfillment of the prophecy which says that in the last days many will depart from the faith, that men would no longer endure sound doctirne, and instead heap to themselves teachers having itching ears teaching doctrines of devils and commandments of men... For your own souls saake i would reexamine

http://p067.ezboard.com/bntymezapostacywarriorz
 
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Tavita

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its not about throwing links, its about believing God and His word. You make God the bad guy with universalist doctrine and totally remove from man his responsibility for his own sins and the fact we are ALL deserving of hell. You deny the word which says God calls to us day and night and we reject Him. You put the burden of FURTHER responsibility on God when He paid the price with His own blood and then you call Him unrighteous because the world rejects His means of escape... But do you know what you REALLY are? You are becoming a fulfillment of the prophecy which says that in the last days many will depart from the faith, that men would no longer endure sound doctirne, and instead heap to themselves teachers having itching ears teaching doctrines of devils and commandments of men... For your own souls saake i would reexamine

http://p067.ezboard.com/bntymezapostacywarriorz


And I would say, for your own soul I urge you to re-examine. Wow, ya know, years ago I got hooked into some false teaching and a false christian movement, and I thought I was sooooo right. Be careful, John1and1. I am totally aware of how easily I can be deceived and take everything to God the Father. IF, I am wrong, He will show me. Do you really think it's your job to convict me of sin and being deceived? I think not. I hope you are taking the beam out of your own eye first, before you look at another.
 
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KCDAD

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then I am afraid you dont understand the scriptures nor the nature of man nor the nature of God. You apparently have no understanding of the fact that God made a way of escape from what man got himself into, and yet most of the world refuses it.

Amazing the trap of hell and satan this website is...


http://p067.ezboard.com/bntymezapostacywarriorz
Which "hell" is that? The Greek mythical one? The Hebrew grave or the garbage dump south of Jerusalem? Would you be referring to Hades and Tartarus, Sheol or Gehenna?

You really need to study the Bible... not a translation of the Bible.
 
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KCDAD

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its not about throwing links, its about believing God and His word. You make God the bad guy with universalist doctrine and totally remove from man his responsibility for his own sins and the fact we are ALL deserving of hell. You deny the word which says God calls to us day and night and we reject Him. You put the burden of FURTHER responsibility on God when He paid the price with His own blood and then you call Him unrighteous because the world rejects His means of escape... But do you know what you REALLY are? You are becoming a fulfillment of the prophecy which says that in the last days many will depart from the faith, that men would no longer endure sound doctirne, and instead heap to themselves teachers having itching ears teaching doctrines of devils and commandments of men... For your own souls saake i would reexamine

http://p067.ezboard.com/bntymezapostacywarriorz
God the bad guy for forgiving? God the bad guy for loving his perfect creation? You talk about responsibility and justice but would have God punish someone forever for the "sin" of being born. If you take anything, even once that doesn't belong to you you are a thief and you are a sinner and you will not only be punished for a lifetime, but for a thousand thousand thousand lifetimes. Ahhhh... justice... what is it God requires of us? Love mercy, seek justice and walk humbly... that what God expects.. it's the do as I say, not as I do rule.
 
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squint

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I would like to ask those who believe that all will be saved, how can you can explain away these verses?

What about Jesus saying: "away from me you evil doers, I never knew you" or MAT 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, "

2TH 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction

"Your father is the devil"

REV 22:14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

REV 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

REV 11:18 The time has come for judging the dead, ... and for destroying those who destroy the earth."

All eternal damnation scriptures are written against the devil and his messengers who are ALSO in the flesh of mankind. If you missed that little point of the Gospels that Jesus put on nearly every page for your viewing and HOPEfully understanding, you'd GET IT, get it?

but

if you do NOT get it, that other entity done STOLE The Word from your heart, just as Jesus WARNED would happen.

So ya either wake up, or slave up.

enjoy!

squint
 
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