What does the term "rapture" means to you - other than the dictionary definition of "upcatching"?

[Timtofly]

Are you lashing out at strawmen ? Please quote me where I wrote anywhere that
Jesus was a sinner in need of redemption.

And if you cannot produce the quotation of me teaching that, a retraction of the accusation
would be the thing of maturity for you to do. Retract if you cannot prove your accusation.

Now I do on occasion make typos. I've made some bad ones over the years.
I catch them and correct them whenever I notice one.

But I stake my eternal salvation on the belief that Jesus was the sinless Lamb of God not needing
redemption from sin.

Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor. 5:21)

Then is this resurrection from death merely physical, merely spiritual, or did Lazarus raise from the dead and permanently leave Abraham's bosom.

If posters are going to keep arguing that Jesus had to be the first resurrection, why did Jesus need a resurrection if He was never in a state of death?

Jesus did physically die, that is not the point. The point is why deny Lazarus who was a sinner, a resurrection out of death, that you yourself claim Jesus was never a part of?

Jesus did not even do anything to die. Jesus was not overcome by death. Jesus only physically died to be the Lamb and to prove there is victory over death. Yet Jesus already proved He was the Resurrection and the Life by physically raising Lazarus from the dead after Lazarus was 4 days in Abraham's bosom.

I am not accusing you of anything. I am pointing out your argument is contradictory. If you state Jesus was the first human to ever raise from the dead, you are making Jesus out to be a sinner along with every other human. But no human was like Jesus, so he cannot be the first of this human kind to be resurrected. Lazarus was the first of humanity to be resurrected out of this state of death that is the human condition.

Nor does this mean Jesus was not human. Adam was human prior to disobedience and subsequent state of death. Jesus received his physical body from God, not from Adam, because Adam passed on death to all his descendants.

 

[oikonomia]

Poster Timtofly,

If you could not produce the quote of me teaching Jesus needed redemption as a sinner
and you have not the decency to retract your accusation, then I have no interest in your posts
moving forward.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

There is some disagreement in the translations as to what the word "first" is applying to - whether to Christ's resurrection or to Christ's first actions after the resurrection. Here is just one of those alternate translations in the ERV: "...How that the Christ must suffer, and how that he first by the resurrection of the dead should proclaim light both to the people and to the Gentiles."

In this translation as well as others, the statement is not that Christ was the first to rise from the dead, but that after His resurrection, He was the first to proclaim light to both the people of the Jews as well as the Gentiles (as in "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature...".

The title of the "First-fruits" is not unique to Christ alone, since this title was also given to the 144,000 "First-fruits" in Revelation 14:4. These were raised from the dead on the same day Christ was (as the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints).

It is true there is a discrepancy between some of the manuscripts, but He was still the first to die in the flesh and be made alive in the Spirit as well as being "the firstfruits", which is a single sheaf offering of barley, not multiple sheaves.
And as you know, I believe they (the 144,000)are the ones the bible actually calls "firstfruits", those who had the firstfruits of the Spirit ( Romans 8:23 ). Which tells me, that the bodies that were raised when Christ died couldn't have been "made alive in the Spirit" as Christ was, and as Hosea prophesied.
Hosea 6:
2After two days He will revive us; (Ephesians 2: 5)
on the third day He will raise us up, (Ephesians 2:6)

Matthew 27:51Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
All of the above happened on the day Christ died.

Whereas the following happened 2 days later.
53and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
"Coming" is in the active voice which makes them the cause of the action of coming out of the graves(tombs and not out of the dirt), unlike 51 and 52 in which all of the verbs are in the passive. Obviously God was the cause in those cases. They weren't raised on the day of His resurrection

Then there's the problem of Revelation 7:
:3saying, “Do not harm the earth, or the sea, or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.”
4And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
I take these as the total sum of the remnant of Israel. It follows from what Peter said 2 Peter 3:9The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you (the Jewish diaspora), not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.
Only the remnant of Israel could have a set number that were being saved. As there were already those who were perishing ( 2 Corinthians 2:15 ) who else could it be?

Why wouldn't those who were raised when Christ died be the firstfruits of the Spirit instead of those of Romans 8:23 ?
Or James writing to the 12 tribes says: James 1:18He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.
Psalms 102:
18Let this be written for the generation to come,
so that a people not yet created may praise the LORD.

 

[Timtofly]

Poster Timtofly,

If you could not produce the quote of me teaching Jesus needed redemption as a sinner
and you have not the decency to retract your accusation, then I have no interest in your posts
moving forward.

You objected to what I was posting to another poster. Do you agree with them?

 

[Ed Parenteau]

We also know that all in Christ will never die. John 11:26

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

I was speaking of our earthly existence.

 

[iamlamad]

I believe they don't, it's an elusive fantasy invented by John Darby Nelson.

1 Thes. 4 is a coming, written in black and white, but ONLY a coming to the air. And it is before God's wrath begins so BEFORE the tribulation.

Rev. 19 and Matthew 24 shows a coming AFTER the tribulation.

That is clearly TWO more comings. Darby had nothing to do with it. It was all GOD causing Paul, and others to write..

 

[iamlamad]

No. Daniel sees the broadest view of the end, not one pinpoint in time.

Besides there will be some at the GWT resurrected to eternal life. At least they will have a chance to turn to God and remain in the Lamb's book of life. So God allows both at the GWT. But only God knows if any will take the opportunity. I don't think any one but Daniel can be sure of that event.

But to limit it to Daniel's view and deny all the Resurrections mentioned in the NT is foolishness. None of them contradict Daniel's vision. They just point out a clearer picture.

Also Revelation 20 does not even say a resurrection will occur. It says a resurrection cannot occur until the thousand years are over. Even John was not hopeful nor stated a resurrection. In fact all John saw or at least recorded was that the dead were still the dead and all the dead were cast into the LOF. As I said, no one can say what Daniel said and overrule what was revealed in the NT. The NT gives us a clearer timeline and many even get that timeline wrong.

Besides, what is a resurrection even mean to you concerning the dead? If they are given an eternal physical body, then that would apply equally to the living cast alive into the LOF. Just like a rapture changes those in Christ, which is a physical resurrection out of death, are you saying that can happen to the lost like the goats and tares thrown alive into the LOF? The whole point many miss about the Second Coming is the total removal of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. No one enters the Millennium Kingdom in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

The word "resurrection" refers to the PHYSICAL realm. Being dead spiritually and then being made alive spiritually is called being born again, never called being resurrected. Jesus was the first human ever to be resurrected into a new kind of body that will never die. His old physical body was changed. He was resurrected because His spirit came back to His body and raised it up.

 

[JulieB67]

That is clearly TWO more comings. Darby had nothing to do with it. It was all GOD causing Paul, and others to write..

Paul in his second letter addressed the confusion that his first letter had caused. The subject is our gathering back to him. That happens only once and it will "not happen" until the falling away (apostasy) and the man of sin be revealed.

The original subject of chapter 4 is where the dead are. He then goes on to explain what will happen at the day of the Lord and states that they comfort themselves about the dead loved ones. It wasn't comfort about a pretrib rapture. The bible has to be read in context. We can't just pull out a few verses and create something out of it. Christ states he comes back immediately after the tribulation of those days. We have to take him for his word. The disciples as for signs of his coming, not comings.

but ONLY a coming to the air.

Where does it state he's only coming to the air? That is false. It does not state that. For one, the word air does not mean sky in that verse and two it does not state he's "only" coming to the air. We are meeting the Lord. It does not state at all that we rise into the sky or any elevation for that matter. That's a different word for "air" altogether.


But the biggest thing is air does not mean sky in that verse. Plus we cannot leave out this verse -

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

Those are the saints that Christ brings with him and the saints of Rev 19.
And the word "remain" also means, those left all around/ survive in the Greek. There are many different Greek words for the word remain and only one Greek word means this in this instant of the word utilized only in verses 15 and 17. It's a good study as well.


And if we read further into chapter 5 we see that Paul calls this very event the day of the Lord. So there should not be any confusion to what event we are talking about.

 

[Dan Perez]

I am not saying Christians will not have tribulations. Christians will suffer, they will be persecuted, but they will not go through the 7 year Great Tribulation and suffer God's wrath.

And this is how I see the so-called rapture !!

#1 There is NO Greek word for Rapture in the bible .

#2 But in 2 Thess 2:1 there is a Greek word COMING //PAROUSIA

#3And in 2 Thess 2:3 it is translated APOSTASIA , which is say means DEPARTURE .

#4 This Greek word APOSTASIA is also used in Acts 21:21 ,

#5 And in Gal 1:4 the Greek word is RESCUE // EXAIREO .

dan p

 

[Timtofly]

I was speaking of our earthly existence.

Which is the only time the redeemed are actually in a state of death. We have eternal life that is way more than this earthly existence.

 

[Timtofly]

The word "resurrection" refers to the PHYSICAL realm. Being dead spiritually and then being made alive spiritually is called being born again, never called being resurrected. Jesus was the first human ever to be resurrected into a new kind of body that will never die. His old physical body was changed. He was resurrected because His spirit came back to His body and raised it up.

Are you in the same boat as this poster:

Are you lashing out at strawmen ? Please quote me where I wrote anywhere that Jesus was a sinner in need of redemption.

And if you cannot produce the quotation of me teaching that, a retraction of the accusation would be the thing of maturity for you to do. Retract if you cannot prove your accusation.

Now I do on occasion make typos. I've made some bad ones over the years.
I catch them and correct them whenever I notice one.

But I stake my eternal salvation on the belief that Jesus was the sinless Lamb of God not needing
redemption from sin.

Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor. 5:21)

Why did Jesus need a new physical body, if the original body was permanent and incorruptible without sin? What verse leads you to believe Jesus was born into Adam's dead flesh of corruption and sin?

Paul taught 2 different bodies, one from Adam of sin and death. The other from God of life and incorruption. Some call it the difference between carnal and spiritual.

The first birth is physical of the body. The second birth is spiritual of the spirit. But until the Second Coming the second birth is in Christ and of the Holy Spirit. We are not physically in Christ. We are spiritually in Christ. Every one has had a physical body in Paradise since the thief on the Cross. They have been waiving palm branches and serving God day and night in that heavenly temple which is a physical aspect of Creation, not just symbolic air.

Jesus was made sin on the Cross, not prior as the sinless Lamb of God. It was spiritual as sin is spiritual, but also further corrupts Adam's physical body of death. Sin did not corrupt the body of Jesus. The body just physically died as God's plan incorporated a dead body, that would be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights. The same body came back to life.

We also have the witness of the 2 witnesses. The same body that was killed came back to life after 3.5 days. Revelation 11.

Both of you have commented on my post.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Which is the only time the redeemed are actually in a state of death. We have eternal life that is way more than this earthly existence.

Of course we do. No one is arguing that.

 

[iamlamad]

Paul in his second letter addressed the confusion that his first letter had caused. The subject is our gathering back to him. That happens only once and it will "not happen" until the falling away (apostasy) and the man of sin be revealed.

The original subject of chapter 4 is where the dead are. He then goes on to explain what will happen at the day of the Lord and states that they comfort themselves about the dead loved ones. It wasn't comfort about a pretrib rapture. The bible has to be read in context. We can't just pull out a few verses and create something out of it. Christ states he comes back immediately after the tribulation of those days. We have to take him for his word. The disciples as for signs of his coming, not comings.


Where does it state he's only coming to the air? That is false. It does not state that. For one, the word air does not mean sky in that verse and two it does not state he's "only" coming to the air. We are meeting the Lord. It does not state at all that we rise into the sky or any elevation for that matter. That's a different word for "air" altogether.

Paul also used clouds when talking about people.

But the biggest thing is air does not mean sky in that verse. Plus we cannot leave out this verse -

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

Those are the saints that Christ brings with him and the saints of Rev 19.
And the word "remain" also means, those left all around/ survive in the Greek. There are many different Greek words for the word remain and only one Greek word means this in this instant of the word utilized only in verses 15 and 17. It's a good study as well.


And if we read further into chapter 5 we see that Paul calls this very event the day of the Lord. So there should not be any confusion to what event we are talking about.

"Paul in his second letter addressed the confusion that his first letter had caused. " You are already off on a tangent. His first letter was "God breathed" just as his second letter was. They were troubled because they had been told by someone or some thing that they were IN the Day of the Lord—that the Day had started and they were in it. Paul's first letter told them the catching up would come before the Day. It is very easy to understand why they were troubled. They probably thought they had missed the rapture. It seems they wrote to Paul and asked him to clarify when the Day of the Lord would come in relation to the catching up of the church.

I think you and many others have missed Paul's intent on any kind of a falling away. It is a very significant "departing" that Paul expected his readers to know and understand. Which significant departing? Just look back at Paul's theme: the catching up of the church. The church will be caught up and "depart" the earth to the sky where we find air and clouds. A "falling away" is a myth: when one person "falls away" (from what Paul did not say) two more are born again. The church world wide is growing, not shrinking. According to Paul's first letter, the gathering will come just before the start of the Day of the Lord and just before God's wrath begins. In Revelation that is at the 6th seal.

What was in Paul's mind when he wrote of us comforting one another?

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

We are to comfort one another about the fact that God will set no appointments for us with His wrath, because we will be caught up just before wrath? Is that not a great comfort? He sets appointments for the sinner.

"Christ states he comes back immediately after the tribulation of those days. We have to take him for his word. "

OF COURSE, He is coming back after the tribulation: Jesus own words and it is confirmed in Revelation 19. However, neither of these passages PREVENT His coming pre-trib for His church, which is what Paul teaches. The bible has to be read and understood in context. The truth is, the Gentile church of today was only a MYSTERY hidden in the Father when Jesus spoke of the end times. He was speaking of the end of the JEWISH age, proven by His mention of the abomination that will divide the 70th week of Daniel. How could He speak of the future Gentile church when it was still a mystery? At that time Jesus knew nothing about Paul being sent to the Gentiles.

"The disciples as for signs of his coming" Of course! The only coming they knew of was His coming to Armageddon.

"Air?" Not the air we see when we look up? Not the air planes fly through? I have one question: Which air contains or holds the clouds we see when we look up? That is the air in which we are going to meet Jesus. I will agree that Paul did not tell write of our destination after we are caught up into the air. However, John 14 provides our destination after we are caught up. Remember, we will be caught up just before the start of God's wrath, which in Revelation begins at the 6th seal. In Revelation the "tribulation" or 70th week does not begin until the 7th seal. Since 6 always comes before 7 in counting, we can be SURE the 6th seal (wrath) will be opened before the 7th seal start of Jacob's 7 years of trouble. In Revelation, the 70th week goes from chapter 8 to chapter 16—from the 7th seal to the 7th bowl. (God has "marked" the week with sevens.) By the way, we meet Him IN THE CLOUDS, which is up into the air. That is where clouds are.

"Those are the saints that Christ brings with him and the saints of Rev 19." No, you are mistaken yet again. The saints Paul will bring with Him are the spirits of all the "dead in Christ;" all who have died "in Christ" since Jesus rose from the dead to become the Redeemer. You are half right: they are seen again after they have spent 7 years in heaven in resurrection bodies in chapter 19, ready for the marriage and supper. John saw them previously as the great crowd, too large to number, right after they had been caught up to heaven at the pre-trib rapture.

There is no mystery in Paul's use of "remain." At the pre-trib rapture, all humans on earth will be either those "in Christ" or those who are not in Christ. This goes for those who have passed since Jesus rose from the dead: some died "in Christ," but most died outside of knowing Christ. At the gathering, which will be exclusively for those "in Christ," first the dead in Christ rise, and that leaves those alive and in Christ remaining to be caught up. Then, ALL of those "in Christ" are caught up.

The "Day of the Lord" according to Isaiah comes with "wrath and fierce anger." Does that sound like the rapture? Paul explains that the rapture will come JUST BEFORE wrath or before the start of the Day of the Lord. Remember, those Paul wrote to in His second letter THOUGHT they were in the Day, but Paul explains to them that when people see the great departure, the rapture of the church, then see the man of sin revealed, THEN they will know the Day has started and they are in it. It's kind of funny: the church will depart and won't see the abomination—the man of sin revealed. We will be GONE! I take great comfort in that.

 

[iamlamad]

Are you in the same boat as this poster:



Why did Jesus need a new physical body, if the original body was permanent and incorruptible without sin? What verse leads you to believe Jesus was born into Adam's dead flesh of corruption and sin?

Paul taught 2 different bodies, one from Adam of sin and death. The other from God of life and incorruption. Some call it the difference between carnal and spiritual.

The first birth is physical of the body. The second birth is spiritual of the spirit. But until the Second Coming the second birth is in Christ and of the Holy Spirit. We are not physically in Christ. We are spiritually in Christ. Every one has had a physical body in Paradise since the thief on the Cross. They have been waiving palm branches and serving God day and night in that heavenly temple which is a physical aspect of Creation, not just symbolic air.

Jesus was made sin on the Cross, not prior as the sinless Lamb of God. It was spiritual as sin is spiritual, but also further corrupts Adam's physical body of death. Sin did not corrupt the body of Jesus. The body just physically died as God's plan incorporated a dead body, that would be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights. The same body came back to life.

We also have the witness of the 2 witnesses. The same body that was killed came back to life after 3.5 days. Revelation 11.

Both of you have commented on my post.

I only used the dictionary. Jesus only got a CHANGED Body, one that could eat a fish, then walk through a wall, without leaving fish on the wall. In other words, his physical body got changed into a resurrection body just as ours will. Jesus did not walk through walls or appear suddenly in a locked room UNTIL He had a resurrection body.

 

[iamlamad]

And this is how I see the so-called rapture !!

#1 There is NO Greek word for Rapture in the bible .

#2 But in 2 Thess 2:1 there is a Greek word COMING //PAROUSIA

#3And in 2 Thess 2:3 it is translated APOSTASIA , which is say means DEPARTURE .

#4 This Greek word APOSTASIA is also used in Acts 21:21 ,

#5 And in Gal 1:4 the Greek word is RESCUE // EXAIREO .

dan p

There is NO Greek word for Rapture in the bible . But there IS a Latin word for rapture in the bible.

 

[JulieB67]

You are already off on a tangent. His first letter was "God breathed" just as his second letter was.

I didn't say it wasn't from the Holy Spirit. I said they were confused and Paul tells them not be be confused about our gathering back to him. And he states not even as from a letter by him. Which of course is his first letter. He says our gathering back to him (that's the subject) will not happen until yes, a falling away that means departing from the faith. No matter how you want to change the defintion. And the man of sin will be revealed. He tells them not to be deceived by any means. A second witness to Christ's own warning on this very subject about deception.

Paul's first letter told them the catching up would come before the Day.

Where does he state that it would happen before the day of the Lord? Because in chapter 5 he calls the subject of 4:17 the day of the Lord. And why would he tell anyone to watch (along with Christ ) so that the day doesn't overtake them as a thief if they weren't going to be there? Meaning they had the potential to be there when that happened. If not there would be no warnings, no signs to watch for, etc.

I think you and many others have missed Paul's intent on any kind of a falling away.

No we haven't. We know the meaning/defintion.

What was in Paul's mind when he wrote of us comforting one another?

Again, the original subject that he was comforting the Thessalonians about was where their dead loved ones were.

a MYSTERY hidden

The mystery about that day is that "all are changed" at the last trump. Not that anyone would be going anywhere.

Just look back at Paul's theme: t

Paul's theme is just like Christ's. Warnings about deception, being watchmen, standing in that "evil day" and so on. Not that anyone would be leaving, quite the opposite. If it happens in one's lifetime, one must have the full gospel armour on to be able to stand in that evil day. As Christ's states, those that endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[3 Resurrections]

And as you know, I believe they (the 144,000)are the ones the bible actually calls "firstfruits", those who had the firstfruits of the Spirit ( Romans 8:23 ). Which tells me, that the bodies that were raised when Christ died couldn't have been "made alive in the Spirit" as Christ was, and as Hosea prophesied.

Those "First-fruits of the Spirit" which Paul said that the believers had was the presence of the resurrected Matthew 27:52-53 saints which had remained on earth to build up the early church. It was the work of the Spirit which had redeemed their physical bodies out of the grave. As in Romans 8:11. "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall ALSO quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Any bodily resurrection involves the work of the Spirit to produce that changed body form.

Matthew 27:51Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
All of the above happened on the day Christ died.

No, you haven't finished the sentence. "...and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and came out of the grave AFTER His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." We know it was truly AFTER Christ's resurrection when they were raised and came out of their graves, because that is the picture given to us in Revelation 14:14-16. The newly-crowned Son of Man sitting on a cloud (of heaven) used a sickle to "reap" the ripened, dried harvest of the earth. No assisting angels, so this can't be the second coming resurrection, but the one on Christ's resurrection-day ascension to heaven. He then returned to earth that day and spent another 40 days among His disciples.

Why wouldn't those who were raised when Christ died be the firstfruits of the Spirit instead of those of Romans 8:23 ?

These are the same thing. The "First-fruits of the Spirit" were the "First resurrection" event involving Christ and the Matthew 27:52-53, resurrected 144,000 First-fruits raised from the grave that same day as Christ the First-fruits. Paul wrote in Romans 8:23 that the believers still had those First-fruits among them at that time - they hadn't ascended to heaven yet.

Then there's the problem of Revelation 7:
:3saying, “Do not harm the earth, or the sea, or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.”
4And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
I take these as the total sum of the remnant of Israel.

The remnant of Israel who were coming to a believing faith in Christ in those first-century days was a different group than the bodily-resurrected 144,000 members of the Israelite tribes who were "redeemed from the earth" in a bodily resurrection event when the Spirit "quickened their mortal bodies". They were called "virgins" because there is no marriage or giving in marriage in the resurrected state. The seal put upon them was to mark them for preservation during the tumultuous "days of vengeance" which were soon coming upon Judea, as those who could not be hurt by the second death (of the city of Jerusalem and its temple dying for the second time in AD 70).

 

[Timtofly]

Of course we do. No one is arguing that.

Everyone arguing for a future physical resurrection for those currently in Paradise are stating they are still in a state of death.

They already have physical bodies so they are not in a state of death.

 

[Timtofly]

I only used the dictionary. Jesus only got a CHANGED Body, one that could eat a fish, then walk through a wall, without leaving fish on the wall. In other words, his physical body got changed into a resurrection body just as ours will. Jesus did not walk through walls or appear suddenly in a locked room UNTIL He had a resurrection body.

They never met in a locked room until after the resurrection.

Jesus walked on water. Jesus walked through a crowd as if they were not there. Nothing about Jesus physically changed from conception all the way to eternity. Same body, and all the same attributes.

No verse states Jesus had a different resurrection body. That is conjecture.

 

[Timtofly]

No, you haven't finished the sentence. "...and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and came out of the grave AFTER His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." We know it was truly AFTER Christ's resurrection when they were raised and came out of their graves,

They physically came out of their graves that moment at the Cross. They came out of their graves permanently by ascending to heaven on Sunday morning.

"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."

Their graves were opened. They arose. They appeared unto many. They came out permanently on Sunday morning never to return. Lazarus did not return either. Lazarus had a few more days than the rest had, but they all came out of their graves permanently. They both arose physically and left the earth physically. The thief on the Cross, never entered the grave, death. That body may have been buried, but Jesus was the last to have a tomb or grave. No one is going to come out of their grave a second time. No one since the Cross has entered a grave.

This point was relative to that moment:

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until.... . This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ."

The rest of the dead keep waiting every time a redeemed soul leaves Adam's dead flesh and enters God's permanent incorruptible physical body. The rest of the dead lived not again until... , when Lazarus was raised from the dead into eternal life. The rest of the dead lived not again until.... , when the OT were removed from Abraham's bosom and ascended to Paradise to enjoy eternal life.

Many people die daily. Some are the rest of the dead who lived not again untill.... . Some receive eternal life immediately. That is the day of their redemption from sin and death. No one currently in Paradise has a chance to loose their redemption and be sent back to death, the grave.

We should know that the entire OT redeemed were the firstfruits of the NT Covenant and entered eternal life per the order Paul gave.

Christ the firstfruits.

Christ at the Second Coming.

Then at the end of the kingdom, when all creation is complete and returned to God.