WHAT DOES JOHN 3:3 MEANS TO BELIEVERS TODAY ?

[Dan Perez]

#1 And I will begin in the middle ofn this verse ,

#2 I SAY / EGO , is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , INDICATIVE MOOD in the SINGULAR .

#3 UNTO THEE / SOI , is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN , in the DATIVE CASE , in the SINGULAR .

#4 EXCEPT / ME is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , means you HAVE to be BORN AGAIN .

#5 A MAN / TIS , is an INDEFINTE PRONOUN , NOMINATIVE CASE in the SINGULAR .

#6 BE BORN / GANNAO , is in the Greek AORIST TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD , in the SINGULAR

#7 HE CANNOT / DYNAMA in the MIDDLE or PASSIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD in the SINGULAR .

#8 SEE , THE / HO is a DEFINITE ARTICLE that is pointing to the Kingdom , in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , SINGULAR

#9 KINGDOM / BASILEIO in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , means limited , and is SINGULAR

#10 OF GOD / THEOS in the GENTIVE CASE in the SINGULAR .


So what is the CONTEXT ?


What does being BORN AGAIN mean any BELIEVER ?

How can ANYONE be BORN AGAIN ?

Like Nicodemus said to Jesus , can he enter the second time into his mothers womb , and be BORN AGAIN ?

So what does being BORN AGAIN , then means , as many believe that you have to be BORN AGAIN ?

What say you ?

dan p

 

[JeffP]

#1 And I will begin in the middle ofn this verse ,

#2 I SAY / EGO , is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , INDICATIVE MOOD in the SINGULAR .

#3 UNTO THEE / SOI , is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN , in the DATIVE CASE , in the SINGULAR .

#4 EXCEPT / ME is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , means you HAVE to be BORN AGAIN .

#5 A MAN / TIS , is an INDEFINTE PRONOUN , NOMINATIVE CASE in the SINGULAR .

#6 BE BORN / GANNAO , is in the Greek AORIST TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD , in the SINGULAR

#7 HE CANNOT / DYNAMA in the MIDDLE or PASSIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD in the SINGULAR .

#8 SEE , THE / HO is a DEFINITE ARTICLE that is pointing to the Kingdom , in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , SINGULAR

#9 KINGDOM / BASILEIO in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , means limited , and in is SINGULAR

#10 OF GOD / THEOS in the GENTIVE CASE in the SINGULAR .


So what is the CONTEXT ?


What does being BORN AGAIN mean any BELIEVER ?

How can ANYONE be BORN AGAIN ?

Like Nicodemus said to Jesus , can he enter the second time into his mothers womb , and be BORN AGAIN ?

So what does being BORN AGAIN , then means , as many believe that you have to be BORN AGAIN ?

What say you ?

dan p

The conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3:3 unveils the essential concept of being "born again" or "born from above" as a key step to seeing or entering the Kingdom of God. Jesus states, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Nicodemus is initially confused, thinking in physical terms, but Jesus clarifies that the rebirth he's referring to is spiritual in nature. He responds, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.”

This clarification emphasizes that the rebirth is not a physical one, but a spiritual transformation—a deep change in one’s heart and life, brought about by divine grace. The terms water and the Spirit indicate a cleansing and a spiritual awakening, which are essential for entering the Kingdom of God.

Jesus's response highlights the transformative power of faith and the importance of a personal spiritual journey. By being "born again," individuals are invited to experience a renewed relationship with God, enriched by a deeper understanding and a life lived in harmony with Christian teachings.

This conversation invites believers to reflect on their own spiritual journey and the significance of being "born again." It also ignites further theological discussions within Christianity regarding the nature of salvation, divine grace, and the pathway towards the Kingdom of God.

 

[Dan Perez]

The conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3:3 unveils the essential concept of being "born again" or "born from above" as a key step to seeing or entering the Kingdom of God. Jesus states, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Nicodemus is initially confused, thinking in physical terms, but Jesus clarifies that the rebirth he's referring to is spiritual in nature. He responds, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.”

This clarification emphasizes that the rebirth is not a physical one, but a spiritual transformation—a deep change in one’s heart and life, brought about by divine grace. The terms water and the Spirit indicate a cleansing and a spiritual awakening, which are essential for entering the Kingdom of God.

Jesus's response highlights the transformative power of faith and the importance of a personal spiritual journey. By being "born again," individuals are invited to experience a renewed relationship with God, enriched by a deeper understanding and a life lived in harmony with Christian teachings.

This conversation invites believers to reflect on their own spiritual journey and the significance of being "born again." It also ignites further theological discussions within Christianity regarding the nature of salvation, divine grace, and the pathway towards the Kingdom of God.

#1 And I believe what John 3 :3 says , EXCEPT a man be BORN AGAIN , he cannot see the KINGDOM of God.

#2 Notice that John DOES NOT MENTION WATER in verse 3 /

#3 In verse 5 Jesus says , EXCEPT a man be BORN of WATER and of the SPIRIT , he cannot enter the kingdom of God .

#4 Why does he not use WATER in verse 3 ??

#5 Then in verse 5 does mention WATER and SPIRIT , WHY ?

#6 Please notice that the CONTEXT is Israel ?

#7 What Faith did Israel have , as Israel walked by SIGHT .

#8 How was that WATER APPLIED ??

#9 Does John 3:3 and 5 speaking about the OLD COVENANT ?

#10 Is it speaking to the BODY OF CHRIST ?? NEVER is what I believe !!

#11 Is it CONTEXT speaking to those under the NEW COVENANT ?? YES it is !!

#12 It speaking to Israel in EZK 36:25 where Israel is BORN AGAIN >

#13 We that are saved by Grace are NEVER BORN OF WATER as when any one is saved we are PART OF Christ , his EYES , EARS , SMELLING , HIS HANDS as Paul wrote in 1 Cor 12:15-21 .

#14 The BODY OF CHRIST does not need WATER , as we are a NEW CREATION , and are in Christ Gal 3:28 .

#15 WATER BAPTISM began with John 1:31 and never part of the BODY OF CHRIST < PERIOD !!

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

#1 And I believe what John 3 :3 says , EXCEPT a man be BORN AGAIN , he cannot see the KINGDOM of God.

One must receive the divine life of God to even perceive the kingdom of God. It is a kingdom of His divine life imparted into man.

#2 Notice that John DOES NOT MENTION WATER in verse 3 /

First Jesus spoke about even SEEING the kingdom of God. A man must be born of the divine life of God to even see God's kingdom.
Then Jesus speaks of fully entering into that kingdom.

Now He mentions born of water and of the Spirit. He probably was referring to John's baptism followed by regeneration of the Spirit.
Death and Resurrection are in union with Jesus Christ. The old must be terminated and the new must be germinated.

The water refers to that part of entering into the kingdom of God which is termination and burial of the old man.
The Spirit refers to that part of entering into the kingdom of God which is germination and growth of the new man.

#3 In verse 5 Jesus says , EXCEPT a man be BORN of WATER and of the SPIRIT , he cannot enter the kingdom of God .

#4 Why does he not use WATER in verse 3 ??

He is speaking of the same kingdom and the same participation in it.
To SEE this kingdom one must have the life of the kingdom. That is God's life which is in Christ.
To fully enter into the kingdom involves termination (baptism) and germination (regeneration and growth).

The only water John Nicodemus should have known about was that used by John the Baptist to immersing people in preparation
to follow Jesus the Lamb of God.

I think we should simply think of the need to DIE with Christ and be RAISED with Christ in our whole being.

Romans 6:3-5 -
Or are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
We have been buried therefore with Him through baptism into His death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we might walk in newness of life.
For if we have grown together with Him in the likeness of His death, indeed we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

#5 Then in verse 5 does mention WATER and SPIRIT , WHY ?

#6 Please notice that the CONTEXT is Israel ?

The context is the Gospel of John's promise that as many as received Jesus were BEGOTTEN of God.
They receive God's life mnot because of any blood relationship, and not because of the will power of the sinful flesh, and not even
because of the will power of the unfallen created man. But it is of God that man can be re-born with the life of God.

And having received God's life in Christ and imparted by the Spirit man is given the authority to become children of God.
This is all indicated in John 1:11-13 in the prologue.

He came to His own, yet those who were His own did not receive Him.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name,
Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

#7 What Faith did Israel have , as Israel walked by SIGHT .

Hebrews chapter 11 proves that believing Israelites were also heros of FAITH.
For instance Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other Israelites walked by faith.

By faith Abraham, . . . (v. 18)
By faith Sarah . . . (v. 11)
These all died in faith . . . (v. 13)

By faith Isaac . . . (v. 20)
By faith Jacob . . . (v. 21)
By faith Joseph . . . (v.22)
By faith Moses . . . (v. 23)

#8 How was that WATER APPLIED ??

The termination and burial of the old man is experienced also by the Spirit.
For all of the work and accomplishment and attainment of Jesus are in the Spirit for us.

The believers should obey the custom of being baptized to signify their death and resurrecion with Jesus.
It is not too complicated. And both when we baptized people and are ourselves baptized we should do so in faith.

We Christians can also point to the day we were baptized as a memorial day we began our Christian journey.

#9 Does John 3:3 and 5 speaking about the OLD COVENANT ?

Jesus there is talking of the new covenant which He will enact.
Remember the prologue of John's gospel.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name,
Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12,13)

#10 Is it speaking to the BODY OF CHRIST ?? NEVER is what I believe !!

Jesus was speaking of the kingdom of God as also His mystical Body.
This understanding is reinforced by John the Baptist saying that he (John) is the bridegroom's friend and Jesus must expand and encrease
while John's ministery must decrease.

He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices with joy because of the bridegroom’s voice. This joy of mine therefore is made full. He must increase, but I must decrease. (John 3:29-30)

#11 Is it CONTEXT speaking to those under the NEW COVENANT ?? YES it is !!

Of course John chapter three should be understood as relating completely with the new covenant.

#12 It speaking to Israel in EZK 36:25 where Israel is BORN AGAIN >

I believe the new birth is alluded to in the Old Testament. It is coming in a new covenant.

#13 We that are saved by Grace are NEVER BORN OF WATER as when any one is saved we are PART OF Christ , his EYES , EARS , SMELLING , HIS HANDS as Paul wrote in 1 Cor 12:15-21 .

I don't follow this comment that well.

The Body of Christ must be filled with the life of Christ.
We are use to living by our old life rather than the divine life of our re-birth.

So termination and growth must take place as indicated by "the water and the Spirit,"
These matters we should grow into as a process - a life long process of transformation following receiving Christ.

Romans 6:5 [my emphasis] - For if we have GROWN TOGETHER with Him in the likeness of His death, indeed we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

#14 The BODY OF CHRIST does not need WATER , as we are a NEW CREATION , and are in Christ Gal 3:28 .

The Body of Christ needs the termination of the old man. So what is signified by water baptism is needed to put on the new man.

That you put off, as regards your former manner of life, the old man, which is being corrupted according to the lusts of the deceit,
And that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind
And put on the new man, which was created according to God in righteousness and holiness of the reality. (Eph. 4:22-24)

#15 WATER BAPTISM began with John 1:31 and never part of the BODY OF CHRIST < PERIOD !!

dan p

No, water baptism was instructed by the apostles in obedience to the Lord.

You may be over reacting against the heresy of "baptismal regeneration." Ie. as practiced by Church of Christ - Disciples.
These are students of Charles Campbell.
Ie. "You are not saved unless you are immersed in OUR water . . . with an UNDERSTANDING that it is for remission of your sins"
Roman Catholicism may have a similar dogmatic in infant baptism.

It should be that the be baptized in water signifies being immersed into all that the Triune God is . . . into His name.

Go therefore and disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Matt. 28:19)

And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:5)

 

[Dan Perez]

One must receive the divine life of God to even perceive the kingdom of God. It is a kingdom of His divine life imparted into man.

First Jesus spoke about even SEEING the kingdom of God. A man must be born of the divine life of God to even see God's kingdom.
Then Jesus speaks of fully entering into that kingdom.

Now He mentions born of water and of the Spirit. He probably was referring to John's baptism followed by regeneration of the Spirit.
Death and Resurrection are in union with Jesus Christ. The old must be terminated and the new must be germinated.

The water refers to that part of entering into the kingdom of God which is termination and burial of the old man.
The Spirit refers to that part of entering into the kingdom of God which is germination and growth of the new man.

He is speaking of the same kingdom and the same participation in it.
To SEE this kingdom one must have the life of the kingdom. That is God's life which is in Christ.
To fully enter into the kingdom involves termination (baptism) and germination (regeneration and growth).

The only water John Nicodemus should have known about was that used by John the Baptist to immersing people in preparation
to follow Jesus the Lamb of God.

I think we should simply think of the need to DIE with Christ and be RAISED with Christ in our whole being.

Romans 6:3-5 -
Or are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
We have been buried therefore with Him through baptism into His death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we might walk in newness of life.
For if we have grown together with Him in the likeness of His death, indeed we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

The context is the Gospel of John's promise that as many as received Jesus were BEGOTTEN of God.
They receive God's life mnot because of any blood relationship, and not because of the will power of the sinful flesh, and not even
because of the will power of the unfallen created man. But it is of God that man can be re-born with the life of God.

And having received God's life in Christ and imparted by the Spirit man is given the authority to become children of God.
This is all indicated in John 1:11-13 in the prologue.

He came to His own, yet those who were His own did not receive Him.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name,
Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Hebrews chapter 11 proves that believing Israelites were also heros of FAITH.
For instance Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other Israelites walked by faith.

By faith Abraham, . . . (v. 18)
By faith Sarah . . . (v. 11)
These all died in faith . . . (v. 13)

By faith Isaac . . . (v. 20)
By faith Jacob . . . (v. 21)
By faith Joseph . . . (v.22)
By faith Moses . . . (v. 23)


The termination and burial of the old man is experienced also by the Spirit.
For all of the work and accomplishment and attainment of Jesus are in the Spirit for us.

The believers should obey the custom of being baptized to signify their death and resurrecion with Jesus.
It is not too complicated. And both when we baptized people and are ourselves baptized we should do so in faith.

We Christians can also point to the day we were baptized as a memorial day we began our Christian journey.


Jesus there is talking of the new covenant which He will enact.
Remember the prologue of John's gospel.

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name,
Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12,13)

Jesus was speaking of the kingdom of God as also His mystical Body.
This understanding is reinforced by John the Baptist saying that he (John) is the bridegroom's friend and Jesus must expand and encrease
while John's ministery must decrease.

He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices with joy because of the bridegroom’s voice. This joy of mine therefore is made full. He must increase, but I must decrease. (John 3:29-30)

Of course John chapter three should be understood as relating completely with the new covenant.

I believe the new birth is alluded to in the Old Testament. It is coming in a new covenant.

I don't follow this comment that well.

The Body of Christ must be filled with the life of Christ.
We are use to living by our old life rather than the divine life of our re-birth.

So termination and growth must take place as indicated by "the water and the Spirit,"
These matters we should grow into as a process - a life long process of transformation following receiving Christ.

Romans 6:5 [my emphasis] - For if we have GROWN TOGETHER with Him in the likeness of His death, indeed we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection,


The Body of Christ needs the termination of the old man. So what is signified by water baptism is needed to put on the new man.

That you put off, as regards your former manner of life, the old man, which is being corrupted according to the lusts of the deceit,
And that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind
And put on the new man, which was created according to God in righteousness and holiness of the reality. (Eph. 4:22-24)

No, water baptism was instructed by the apostles in obedience to the Lord.

You may be over reacting against the heresy of "baptismal regeneration." Ie. as practiced by Church of Christ - Disciples.
These are students of Charles Campbell.
Ie. "You are not saved unless you are immersed in OUR water . . . with an UNDERSTANDING that it is for remission of your sins"
Roman Catholicism may have a similar dogmatic in infant baptism.

It should be that the be baptized in water signifies being immersed into all that the Triune God is . . . into His name.

Go therefore and disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Matt. 28:19)

And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:5)

Why on the last two sentences different .??

#1 Say to baptize all NATIONS // ETHNOS and what NATIONS and of the HOLY SPIRIT , Matt 28:19 and did the 12 apostles EVER complete that GREAT COMMISSION ??

#2 And why did they change to BAPTIZE INTO THE NAME of the Lord Jesus ??

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

Why on the last two sentences different .??

#1 Say to baptize all NATIONS // ETHNOS and what NATIONS and of the HOLY SPIRIT , Matt 28:19 and did the 12 apostles EVER complete that GREAT COMMISSION ??

#2 And why did they change to BAPTIZE INTO THE NAME of the Lord Jesus ??

dan p

I think some kind of technical glitch occurred for me.

Ignore the glitch of the two question marks in that perculiar place.
Thanks.

 

[oikonomia]

Why on the last two sentences different .??

#1 Say to baptize all NATIONS // ETHNOS and what NATIONS and of the HOLY SPIRIT , Matt 28:19 and did the 12 apostles EVER complete that GREAT COMMISSION ??

#2 And why did they change to BAPTIZE INTO THE NAME of the Lord Jesus ??

dan p

I think I see what you may be asking.

What we pronounce verbally when baptizing is not dogmatically strict.
Any of the following praises may be proclaimed as biblical when baptizing.

1.) We baptize you into the name of the Father - Son - and Holy Spirit !
2.) We baptize you into the name of Jesus!
3.) We baptize you into the one Body.
4.) We baptize you into the one Spirit.
5.) We baptize you into the death of Christ!

All are scriptural and splendid. Or we may say nothing.
It is not what we verbalize which is the most important, but that we and the baptized one have FAITH.
We are being plunged into the Triune God in all His wonderful being.

 

[Dan Perez]

I think I see what you may be asking.

What we pronounce verbally when baptizing is not dogmatically strict.
Any of the following praises may be proclaimed as biblical when baptizing.

1.) We baptize you into the name of the Father - Son - and Holy Spirit !
2.) We baptize you into the name of Jesus!
3.) We baptize you into the one Body.
4.) We baptize you into the one Spirit.
5.) We baptize you into the death of Christ!

All are scriptural and splendid. Or we may say nothing.
It is not what we verbalize which is the most important, but that we and the baptized one have FAITH.
We are being plunged into the Triune God in all His wonderful being.

As I have said many times , that WATER BAPTISM is one of the most DEVIOUS 2 words in the bible .

Here is just one , in 1 Cor 15:29 , BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD ?

dan p

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

As I have said many times , that WATER BAPTISM is one of the most DEVIOUS 2 words in the bible .

Here is just one , in 1 Cor 15:29 , BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD ?

dan p

dan p

Paul is not teaching baptism for the dead.
There may be a number of things the early Christians did which Paul tolerated or did not consider a
serious deviation.

Yes, apparently Paul acknowledges that some practiced this.
Perhaps in some unknown letter he said more about it one way or another.

On this account though I would not make a major matter of fighting against all water baptisms of Christians.

 

[Dan Perez]

Paul is not teaching baptism for the dead.
There may be a number of things the early Christians did which Paul tolerated or did not consider a
serious deviation.

Yes, apparently Paul acknowledges that some practiced this.
Perhaps in some unknown letter he said more about it one way or another.

On this account though I would not make a major matter of fighting against all water baptisms of Christians.

Of course i believe that he is , without QUESTION !!

And why do you disagree and perhaps you have a verse that I have missed ?

And what part of BAPTISM // BAPTISO , or BAPTISMA or BAPTISMOS do you agree with ??

dan p

 

[oikonomia]

Of course i believe that he is , without QUESTION !!

And why do you disagree and perhaps you have a verse that I have missed ?

And what part of BAPTISM // BAPTISO , or BAPTISMA or BAPTISMOS do you agree with ??

dan p

To make sure we are cummunicating . . .
I don't think Paul was teaching baptism on behalf of deceased loved ones.
He asks about why some did it if they did not believe men would be raised from the dead.
I couldn't be sure either way. My opinion is he probably did not seeing Romans says nothing about the specific practice.

Now what Romans does teach about identification with Christ in chapter six is very critical.
Or are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
We have been buried therefore with Him through baptism into His death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we might walk in newness of life. (Rom. 6:3,4)

And other places about baptiszed into the living Person of Christ are very important.

For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there cannot be slave nor free man,
there cannot be male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:27-28)

Verses like this are really important. We should not "deviously" be sidetracked from them by
purely objective ceremonial aspects which we have no discussion of in the New Testament.

Some early Christians had themselves baptised on behalf dead loved ones.
What is recorded as having happened is not always the same as what was the teaching.

It is sad to me to have to debate about ceremonial aspects of baptism after being long past the basic things.
Baptism is among the "milk" of Christian teaching. Long continued debates on
baptisms and "the word of the beginning of Christ" was a problem in Hebrews.

Therefore leaving the word of the beginning of Christ, let us be brought on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith in God,
Of the teaching of baptisms and of the laying on of hands, of the resurrection of the dead and of eternal judgment.
And this we will do if God permits. (Hebrews 6:1-3)

The "deviousness" of the word I don't know about.
But baptism, how and when, the writer said was "milk" of Christian teaching. We ought after time maturely go on
to the "solid food" of righteous living of more spiritual maturity.

For when because of the time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you what the rudiments of the beginning of the oracles of God are and have become those who have need of milk and not of solid food.
For everyone who partakes of milk is inexperienced in the word of righteousness, for he is an infant;
But solid food is for the full-grown, who because of practice have their faculties exercised for discriminating between both good and evil.(Heb 5:12-14)

Now I did write some above about baptism. But I will only talk this ceremonial aspect so much.
Whether hot water, cold water, sea water, fresh water, backwards, forwards . . . etc. The deviousness is
getting too much into such things on which no clear instruction is given.

You know Paul said that love "believes all things, hopes all things". (1 Cor. 13:7)
For now I am happy to just think some disciples hoped they could in faith be baptized on behalf of departed loved ones.

I don't think I would do it or teach it.
I would like to submit a song on Love from 1 Cor. 13.

 

[honey badger]

#1 And I will begin in the middle ofn this verse ,

#2 I SAY / EGO , is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , INDICATIVE MOOD in the SINGULAR .

#3 UNTO THEE / SOI , is a PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN , in the DATIVE CASE , in the SINGULAR .

#4 EXCEPT / ME is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , means you HAVE to be BORN AGAIN .

#5 A MAN / TIS , is an INDEFINTE PRONOUN , NOMINATIVE CASE in the SINGULAR .

#6 BE BORN / GANNAO , is in the Greek AORIST TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , SUBJUNCATIVE MOOD , in the SINGULAR

#7 HE CANNOT / DYNAMA in the MIDDLE or PASSIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD in the SINGULAR .

#8 SEE , THE / HO is a DEFINITE ARTICLE that is pointing to the Kingdom , in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , SINGULAR

#9 KINGDOM / BASILEIO in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , means limited , and is SINGULAR

#10 OF GOD / THEOS in the GENTIVE CASE in the SINGULAR .


So what is the CONTEXT ?


What does being BORN AGAIN mean any BELIEVER ?

How can ANYONE be BORN AGAIN ?

Like Nicodemus said to Jesus , can he enter the second time into his mothers womb , and be BORN AGAIN ?

So what does being BORN AGAIN , then means , as many believe that you have to be BORN AGAIN ?

What say you ?

dan p

To be born again is to view everything without restricting it by measuring it ....

 

[Dan Perez]

it is to


To be born again is to view everything without restricting it by measuring it ....

Give a verse when you have time as m to what ( BEING BORN AGAIN ) (means or ( EXCEPT a man is BORN of WATER and of the SPIRIT ) what does the mean ?

The context is all ISRAEL , PERIOD .

dan p

 

[honey badger]

Give a verse when you have time as m to what ( BEING BORN AGAIN ) (means or ( EXCEPT a man is BORN of WATER and of the SPIRIT ) what does the mean ?

The context is all ISRAEL , PERIOD .

dan p

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. (this was spoken to those who Paul had earlier said that they were still on the breast).

 

[Dan Perez]

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. (this was spoken to those who Paul had earlier said that they were still on the breast).

And I believe what you wrote , but what does it mean to be " BORN AGAIN " or your thoughts on verse 5 . Except a man be ' BORN of WATER and of the Spirit , he can not enter the Kingdom of God .

There 3 possibility !!

#1 Under the Law of Moses ?

#2 Under the NNEW COVENANT ?

# Or under GRACE ?

dan p

 

[honey badger]

And I believe what you wrote , but what does it mean to be " BORN AGAIN " or your thoughts on verse 5 . Except a man be ' BORN of WATER and of the Spirit , he can not enter the Kingdom of God .

There 3 possibility !!

#1 Under the Law of Moses ?

#2 Under the NNEW COVENANT ?

# Or under GRACE ?

dan p

GRACE ...Salvation is not a commodity. To be born again only affords you to see the kingdom, not enter into it.

The term born again, which is dealing with process allows you to see the kingdom, but to enter into what you see you must be born of water and of the spirit ....

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

We cannot know him after the flesh, which is why you must lose your soul, or be born again, so to speak. This only affords you to see the knigdom, to be born of the death and life is to enter it, which is a picking back up of your soul again, here you become what you see in his face.

Moses is one example who saw the kingdom/land but never entered into what he saw ...

 

[Dan Perez]

GRACE ...Salvation is not a commodity. To be born again only affords you to see the kingdom, not enter into it.

The term born again, which is dealing with process allows you to see the kingdom, but to enter into what you see you must be born of water and of the spirit ....

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

We cannot know him after the flesh, which is why you must lose your soul, or be born again, so to speak. This only affords you to see the knigdom, to be born of the death and life is to enter it, which is a picking back up of your soul again, here you become what you see in his face.

Moses is one example who saw the kingdom/land but never entered into what he saw ...

I seen commodity as something to be brought or sold .

Eph 2:8 says that we are SAVED by Faith and NOT // OV is a DISJUNJUCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE neverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr by works .

#1 Nicodemus new that had been born in the flesh , then how can he be born again ?

#2 Jesus is not just talking about NICODEMUS , as Jesus is talking about the Nation of Israel

#3 And that is the meaning in Ezk 36:25--38 .

#4 And Ezk 37 is also a good read !!

dan p

 

[honey badger]

I seen commodity as something to be brought or sold .

Eph 2:8 says that we are SAVED by Faith and NOT // OV is a DISJUNJUCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE neverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr by works .

#1 Nicodemus new that had been born in the flesh , then how can he be born again ?

#2 Jesus is not just talking about NICODEMUS , as Jesus is talking about the Nation of Israel

#3 And that is the meaning in Ezk 36:25--38 .

#4 And Ezk 37 is also a good read !!

dan p

God is not merchandise to be bought and sold or obtained with for a price other than our soul. You can not buy the field unless you sell all that you have ... the treasure hid in the feild is the soul we find having first lost it ...

 

[Dan Perez]

God is not merchandise to be bought and sold or obtained with for a price other than our soul. You can not buy the field unless you sell all that you have ... the treasure hid in the feild is the soul we find having first lost it ...

Please give a verse , where the treasure is hid in a field is where your soul we find having first lost it ?

And a verse where we first our Soul ??

i see 5 answers here !!

#1 Were all people here under the Law of Moses ?

#2 Can it be speaking about the Body of Christ ?

#3 Or is it speaking to Jews only ?

#4 Or is it only speaking to Gentiles only ?

#5 Or is it speaking to Jews and Gentiles ??

Your thoughts ??

dan p

 

[honey badger]

Please give a verse , where the treasure is hid in a field is where your soul we find having first lost it ?

And a verse where we first our Soul ??

i see 5 answers here !!

#1 Were all people here under the Law of Moses ?

#2 Can it be speaking about the Body of Christ ?

#3 Or is it speaking to Jews only ?

#4 Or is it only speaking to Gentiles only ?

#5 Or is it speaking to Jews and Gentiles ??

Your thoughts ??

dan p

the pearl of great price is your soul, but it can not be bought at any price so we must purchase the feild this treasure is hid in ...

Now we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassingness of the power may be from God, and not from us,

The kingdom of the heavens is like treasure having been hidden in the field, which a man having found, hid. And for joy over it, he goes and he sells all that he has, and buys that field.

Boaz did not redeem the woman, he redeemed the field (process)


to your other question

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Here's a scripture that refers to the same thing even though the ones who said it had no idea what he was speaking of.

We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

We individually and corproatly are this temple Jesus reffered to. Jesus was In Nebie's dream the stone that was cut out of the mountain without hands, just like we are. It's not of works less any man should boast that they have made somehow themselves a son of God. This you can see reflected in Jesus words about this same stone. He's qouting from Psalms 118

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

You find this principle all over scritpure buried like a treasure in a field. It doesn't have anything to do with jews or gentiles, male or female, bond or free. None of that stuff. You, me, everone we are complete in Him