IS 2 COR 3:6 SPEAKING ABOUT THE NEW COVENANT ?

Guojing

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What were the letters engraved in stone Guojing? BTW Is this a hero of yours, you or just a coincidence? Link

2Cor 3:7 But if the ministry of death having been engraved in letters in stone was with glory, so as that the sons of Israel could not gaze into "the face of Moses" because of the glory of his face, which was to cease,

Exod 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deut 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deut 4:14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

Since we have established that the letters engraved in stone are the Ten and are the Covenant. Then the covenant mentioned in verse 6 is the New covenant by the Spirit putting the laws in the hearts and minds since that is the context. A new heart and mind guided by and through the Spirit makes our religion that of faith and not of necessity. We do now because of who we are in Christ not because we have to.

We now are the ministers. Showing all through Christ by the Spirit the change in us. And thereby ministering the spirit to others. Us in Him,He in us that the world might believe.
2Cor 3:6 who also made us able ministers of a new covenant, not of letter, but of Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit makes alive.

Is your answer to my question no?
 
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Dan Perez

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sin is transgression of the law ... the law is eternal has always been and will always be.

Sin (transgression of the law) started in heaven with lucifer and the 1/3 angels.

Until the seed (Jesus) come ... yes .... through which salvation is possible ... of which was slain before the foundation of the world (plan of salvation in place before creation) God's foreknowledge ... He knew what would happen ... He knew what choice Adam and Eve would make and the rest of humanity as well.

God created all His intelligent beings as free agents ... the choice to live according to the principals of love ... love can not be forced ... it MUST be a choice else it's not love.

The law (the 10) are laws of love ... that is when kept perfectly the result is perfect love (only Jesus did this)

The 10 is the "short list" of what love looks like .... the first table God's divine love and what that relationship looks like .... the 2nd table is how all of mankind is to treat one another but is like (similar) to the first. Everything Jesus taught whether in speech or in action reflects the law in it's entirety and He did so willingly. His ministry on earth reflected the true image of God ... because He was and is God and that image is perfect Love. Through His ministry on earth He expounded on the 10 ... that is gave more detailed information of what true love looks like.

Isaiah 43:41
King James Bible
The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he (Jesus) will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Nothing has changed because God does not change. The law shows us the divine and unchanging character of God.

Malachi 3:6 says, “I am the Lord, I change not.” Hebrews 13:8 says Jesus is the same “yesterday, today, and forever.”

There is nothing wrong with God's laws not one single thing ... and is stated as such by Jesus.

Matthew 5:17-18 King James Version (KJV)Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil (to make honorable). For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled (until His return). Why? Because He never changes.

Jesus did not mean for us to stop keeping the law once He “fulfilled” it. By fulfilling the law Jesus showed us how to keep the law fully ... while knowing and understanding how we struggle with doing that (overcoming sin - transgression of the law) not loving one another.

The first tablet helps us maintain a healthy relationship with God, and second tablet is our guide for our relationships with other humans. They are a way for humanity to express our devotion and obedience to God, and a way for God to express His will and character to us.
God gives us his law to help us live in harmony with his plan for our lives .... by choice ... not forced.

Laws that produce love my friends ... and we press forward in keeping them because we Love God and know He loved us first. Amen.

John 3:16​

New International Version​

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Amen. Thank you Jesus !!!!!

Keep the commandments out of Love and for no other reasons. It is not being legalistic as some claim ... it is being loving towards God and humanity and there certainly is no fault in that at all.
How do you see Adam and Eves sin , what LAW were they under and how were they SAVED ??

dan p
 
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eleos1954

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That's quite zealous, but lacking discernment; [Hosea 4:6] For the purpose of the Law is fulfilled in Christ [Isaiah 33:5-6] as the means of righteousness (right relationship to God) for everyone who trusts, believes in Him. Rom 10:2-4

Who has come according to the power of an endless life. Heb 7:16

Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.” 1 Peter 2:4-6

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; Psalm 45:6
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. Heb 1:8

You who are far away, hear what I have done; you who are near, acknowledge my power! Isaiah 33:13-14
For our God is a consuming fire. Hebrews 12:28-29
Everything (all covenants) are fulfilled through Christ. Not any man ... not any nation.
 
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eleos1954

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How do you see Adam and Eves sin , what LAW were they under and how were they SAVED ??

dan p
Sin actually began in heaven (lucifer and the 1/3 angels) they sinned ... sin is defined as transgression of the law. So there is a eternal law.

James 1:14-15 ESV​

But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

The fall of angels and Adam and Eve was their own desires and thus gave them over to sin (transgression of the law)

You can't get away from what the definition of sin is.

Adam and Eve are saved just like anyone has or is/will be saved ... they believed in the promise of the future redeeming savior to come.

All will be judged ... judgement requires law ... judgement unto salvation is entirely up to Jesus who knows all things.

Romans 2:11-16 For God judges everyone by the same standard. The Gentiles do not have the Law of Moses; they sin and are lost apart from the Law. The Jews have the Law; they sin and are judged by the Law. For it is not by hearing the Law that people are put right with God, but by doing what the Law commands.

Romans 7:7 ESV​

What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

1 John 5:3 ESV​

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Commandments of love ... kept out of love and for no other reasons.

There is nothing wrong with God's laws ... there is something wrong with us.
 
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Dan Perez

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Sin actually began in heaven (lucifer and the 1/3 angels) they sinned ... sin is defined as transgression of the law. So there is a eternal law.

James 1:14-15 ESV​

But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

The fall of angels and Adam and Eve was their own desires and thus gave them over to sin (transgression of the law)

You can't get away from what the definition of sin is.

Adam and Eve are saved just like anyone has or is/will be saved ... they believed in the promise of the future redeeming savior to come.

All will be judged ... judgement requires law ... judgement unto salvation is entirely up to Jesus who knows all things.

Romans 2:11-16 For God judges everyone by the same standard. The Gentiles do not have the Law of Moses; they sin and are lost apart from the Law. The Jews have the Law; they sin and are judged by the Law. For it is not by hearing the Law that people are put right with God, but by doing what the Law commands.

Romans 7:7 ESV​

What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

1 John 5:3 ESV​

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Commandments of love ... kept out of love and for no other reasons.

There is nothing wrong with God's laws ... there is something wrong with us.
I Will says again , HOW were Adam and Eve saved as there was not a LAW during that time ?

And how does Rom 2:11 fit in here ?


Your thoughts ??

dan p
 
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eleos1954

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I Will says again , HOW were Adam and Eve saved as there was not a LAW during that time ?

And how does Rom 2:11 fit in here ?


Your thoughts ??

dan p

They were saved by the promise to come (blood of the Lamb) ... just like all are. The plan of salvation was in place before creation. Those in Christ through the promise (Messiah to come-in Genesis) from the beginning (and for all time) will be saved.

Romans 2

11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Christ will judge all ... judgement can not take place unless there is law (a standard used) ... all judgement is up to Christ and we are not privy to His judgements. Judgement takes place in heaven before the return of Jesus .... 1st resurrection happens (of the saved for all time) excluding a few special resurrections into heaven that occurred in the past. Judgement is a legal term. (law)

John 5:22-24 King James Version (KJV)For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

All have sinned (transgression of the law) even satan and the 1/3 fallen angels will be judged by Christ.

No one can enter heaven without first being judged. Those in Christ will be pardoned.
 
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Dan Perez

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Sin actually began in heaven (lucifer and the 1/3 angels) they sinned ... sin is defined as transgression of the law. So there is a eternal law.

James 1:14-15 ESV​

But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

The fall of angels and Adam and Eve was their own desires and thus gave them over to sin (transgression of the law)

You can't get away from what the definition of sin is.

Adam and Eve are saved just like anyone has or is/will be saved ... they believed in the promise of the future redeeming savior to come.

All will be judged ... judgement requires law ... judgement unto salvation is entirely up to Jesus who knows all things.

Romans 2:11-16 For God judges everyone by the same standard. The Gentiles do not have the Law of Moses; they sin and are lost apart from the Law. The Jews have the Law; they sin and are judged by the Law. For it is not by hearing the Law that people are put right with God, but by doing what the Law commands.

Romans 7:7 ESV​

What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

1 John 5:3 ESV​

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Commandments of love ... kept out of love and for no other reasons.

There is nothing wrong with God's laws ... there is something wrong with us.
I believe tht the question was , How were Adam and Eve saved , because there WAS NO LAW ??

dan p
 
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eleos1954

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I Will says again , HOW were Adam and Eve saved as there was not a LAW during that time ?

And how does Rom 2:11 fit in here ?


Your thoughts ??

dan p
And I'll say again .... Adam & Eve were saved by believing (faith) in the Promise (Jesus) to come (the sacrificial lamb of God)

The very definition of sin is transgression of the law.

Lucifer & the 1/3 angels sinned in heaven (transgression of law), Adam & Eve sinned (transgression of the law)

So law was in place before Lucifer and the 1/2 angels were cast to the earth.

Romans 2:11
For God does not show favoritism.

14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them 16on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.

Judgement is a legal term .... Jesus will judge all .... all will be judged according to law. This is how God does not show favoritism. He judges all according to the same law. The difference is .... those in Him will be seen as being not guilty (not that they/we are) ... will be pardoned (totally forgiven) the lost will not be forgiven/pardoned.

Matthew 5:17-20
English Standard Version​

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 5:12

New Living Translation
When Adam sinned, sin (transgression of law) entered the world. Adam’s sin (transgression of law) brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned (transgressed law).
 
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eleos1954

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I believe tht the question was , How were Adam and Eve saved , because there WAS NO LAW ??

dan p

It was God, and not themselves, who saved them. God said, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman" (3:15). Adam and Eve had no power or will to break free from Satan's dominion. Only God could and only God did deliver them. But not only was their salvation wholly of God by His grace.

Our first parents had disobeyed God's command and had eaten of the forbidden fruit. They believed the devil (faith in what the devil said rather than what God said) they disbelieved the true and living God Who had made them and who had entered into fellowship with them.

Thus their salvation could only be by the sovereign mercy and gift of God. And since their salvation was of mercy and grace, then it must also be of faith (believing God) (Ephesians 2:8). Adam and Eve were given faith by God to believe/faith of the coming seed of the woman, Christ, who would bruise Satan's head on the cross. And we, and all of God's people in all ages, those from that time forward until His return who are in Christ are saved in the same way as our first parents. Believing (faith) that God will do all He said He would do ... and He will.

The plan of salvation for mankind was put in place before creation. God in His foreknowledge knew mankind would sin. (the definition of sin is transgression of law) without law there is no knowledge of sin.

Adam and Eve transgressed the first commandment ... so did lucifer and the fallen 1/3 (where sin started in the first place)

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself” (Matthew 22:37–39)

It's all about Love .... God IS love and God never changes. They and we and all going forward have faith) in the promises that comes through the seed.

Nothing has changed regarding the way people are saved beginning with Adam & Eve .... because time has passed we have seen much prophesy fulfilled than those who were alive before us and we are blessed to have much more detailed information about the plan of salvation and our redeeming savior is the only difference.

FAITH

Many People seem to look at Gods commandments (law) from a negative viewpoint ... when in fact they are laws when kept perfectly (of which we can not do without Christ) produce Love .... this is what Jesus (who is God) did on behalf of mankind. Thank you Jesus !!!

John 3

[15] That whosoever believeth in him (the seed) should not perish, but have eternal life. [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

There is nothing wrong or negative with Gods commandments ... there is something wrong with us.

It's all about the seed and that seed is Christ.
 
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Dan Perez

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How long will they love delusions? Ps 4:2-3

It's not based on dead works. Hebrews 9:14-15

Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Isa 43:18-19
I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, Ezek 37:14

The veil is removed in Christ. 2 Corinthians 3:14-15
Then you believe that Jews of today are saved By the NEW COVENANT or are they saved by Grace ?

dan p
 
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Dan Perez

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Jews, Gentiles are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28
Good thing that Paul says that THERE CANNOT // OV is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICILE NEGATIVE , which means that there are NO , Jew // IOUDAIOS and it says JEW and does not say JEWS .

And there CANNOT // OV GREEK also a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and means NEVERRRR Be Jew or Gentile Which is also in the Greek SINGULAR ,

In Col 3:11 says the same thing , and only REVERSES , and begins with , where there CANNOT BE // also a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE . Greek and JEW is also in the SINGULAR

Notice also the Jew and Greek are reverses Jew and Greek TO Greek and Jew , why are they REVERSED ??

What does that MEAN ??

dan p
 
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keepitsimple144

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Good thing that Paul says that THERE cANNOT Be Jew or Gentile Which is also in the Greek SINGULAR ,
Notice also the Jew and Greek are reverses Jew and Greek TO Greek and Jew , why are they REVERSED ??
What does the MEAN ??
Notice that Paul was a Jew preaching salvation through faith in Christ to Gentiles. Why would he bother doing such a thing if they were all destined to perdition?

Through Christ Jesus we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.
And you also are among those Gentiles who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. Rom 1:5-6
 
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fhansen

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The book of Hebrews describes the new covenant as better (not new) than the old covenant (Heb. 8:1-2, 6, NRSV). The obvious question, then, is Why did God establish the old covenant if it was faulty? The problem, however, was not with the covenant but with the response of the people to it.

It is Jesus that fulfills all covenants .... He is the only one that can and why it's a better covenant.
Yes, man needs Jesus, man needs God, before he needs anything else, before obedience is even possible for him. God gave man the old covenant in order to teach and prove that very fact. Augustine put it this way:
"The law was therefore given, in order that grace might be sought; grace was given, in order that the law might be fulfilled."

And here's a good link to a fuller understanding of his thoughts on this:
 
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Notice that Paul was a Jew preaching salvation through faith in Christ to Gentiles. Why would he bother doing such a thing if they were all destined to perdition?

Through Christ Jesus we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.
And you also are among those Gentiles who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. Rom
It IS BETTER // TOB , in the SINGULAR in the ABSOLUTE

TO DWELL // YASAB , a verb in the Hebrew , QAL

IN A CORNER // PINNA , in the SINGULAR

OF THE HOUSE // GAG , in the SINGULAR , in the ABSOLUTE

THAN WITH A // ISSA IN THE SINGULAR .

BRAWLING // MIDYAN , in the Plural

WOMAN // ISSA , in the SINGULAR

IN A // BAYIT , in the Singular .

WIDE // HEBER , in the Singular , in the Absolute

HOUSE // BAVIT , also in the Singular and better in the Absolute .

dan p
 
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Dan Perez

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Everything (all covenants) are fulfilled through Christ. Not any man ... not any na

Sin actually began in heaven (lucifer and the 1/3 angels) they sinned ... sin is defined as transgression of the law. So there is a eternal law.

James 1:14-15 ESV​

But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

The fall of angels and Adam and Eve was their own desires and thus gave them over to sin (transgression of the law)

You can't get away from what the definition of sin is.

Adam and Eve are saved just like anyone has or is/will be saved ... they believed in the promise of the future redeeming savior to come.

All will be judged ... judgement requires law ... judgement unto salvation is entirely up to Jesus who knows all things.

Romans 2:11-16 For God judges everyone by the same standard. The Gentiles do not have the Law of Moses; they sin and are lost apart from the Law. The Jews have the Law; they sin and are judged by the Law. For it is not by hearing the Law that people are put right with God, but by doing what the Law commands.

Romans 7:7 ESV​

What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

1 John 5:3 ESV​

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Commandments of love ... kept out of love and for no other reasons.

There is nothing wrong with God's laws ... there is something wrong with us.
You did not answer under what LAW there was Adam and Eve have to KEEP ?

And Hon they were SAVED ? Read Gen 3:21 !!

I will answer the first one for you There was NO , LAW in the beginning !, rtead Rom 5:13 !!

dan p
 
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eleos1954

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You did not answer under what LAW there was Adam and Eve have to KEEP ?

And Hon they were SAVED ? Read Gen 3:21 !!

I will answer the first one for you There was NO , LAW in the beginning !, rtead Rom 5:13 !!

dan p
Whether we have had the written law or not, all are alike counted sinners. Disobedience to God. God told (commandment) Adam and Eve they would die ... they had choice .... Love is a choice. Same as lucifer and the fallen 1/3

1st and most important commandment.

Matthew 22:37-39 KJV​

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

so ... what is love? putting God first ... before self ... Adam & Eve put themselves first (so did lucifer and the 1/3). Not codified (written down at the time) but the principle of law (love) is there.

So when we talk about the law of God—the way God wants us to live—it's summarized by love.

Romans 13:10, Paul writes, “Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

God's law reveals His love.

God IS love (He can't be anything different than Himself) ... He puts mankind before Himself as depicted when He laid His life down for humanity at the cross ... out of love.

All His intelligent beings were created out of love to love .... but love must be a choice else it's not love. Love can not be forced.

So Adam & Eve chose not to love God .... love was and is a commandment ... but all are given the choice to obey it or not.

Genesis 3:21

Yeah they were made aware of the consequences of their choice to love themselves more than God. But God knew they would before creation and already had the plan of salvation in place and this was made known to them by God himself providing their covering .... symbolic of Messiah to come that would clothe mankind with His righteousness should we choose to love Him.

The imagery of being clothed in Christ describes our state of being that will take place when we are resurrected from the dead.

It's was eating from the tree of life in the garden that gave Adam and Eve eternal life .... and that tree was removed (else sin would be perpetuated for eternity}

Again, the very definition of sin is transgression of law ... so the law of love (which is the greatest) was transgressed ... by choice.
 
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Whether we have had the written law or not, all are alike counted sinners. Disobedience to God. God told (commandment) Adam and Eve they would die ... they had choice .... Love is a choice. Same as lucifer and the fallen 1/3

1st and most important commandment.

Matthew 22:37-39 KJV​

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

so ... what is love? putting God first ... before self ... Adam & Eve put themselves first (so did lucifer and the 1/3). Not codified (written down at the time) but the principle of law (love) is there.

So when we talk about the law of God—the way God wants us to live—it's summarized by love.

Romans 13:10, Paul writes, “Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

God's law reveals His love.

God IS love (He can't be anything different than Himself) ... He puts mankind before Himself as depicted when He laid His life down for humanity at the cross ... out of love.

All His intelligent beings were created out of love to love .... but love must be a choice else it's not love. Love can not be forced.

So Adam & Eve chose not to love God .... love was and is a commandment ... but all are given the choice to obey it or not.

Genesis 3:21

Yeah they were made aware of the consequences of their choice to love themselves more than God. But God knew they would before creation and already had the plan of salvation in place and this was made known to them by God himself providing their covering .... symbolic of Messiah to come that would clothe mankind with His righteousness should we choose to love Him.

The imagery of being clothed in Christ describes our state of being that will take place when we are resurrected from the dead.

It's was eating from the tree of life in the garden that gave Adam and Eve eternal life .... and that tree was removed (else sin would be perpetuated for eternity}

Again, the very definition of sin is transgression of law ... so the law of love (which is the greatest) was transgressed ... by choice.
They , Adam and Eve were save by one word called AONEMENT < period !!

dan p
 
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