What do you think Hebrews 6:4-6 says?

[Bible Highlighter]

Discuss.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hebrews 6:1 says LAYING NOT AGAIN the foundation of repentance and faith towards GOD. A person who has not accepted Christ has not laid the foundation of repentance yet. They cannot LAY AGAIN such a foundation of repentance.

 

[Dave L]

Discuss.

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4–6) (KJV 1900)

In the parable of the soils, 3/4 of the converts fall away. Jesus says narrow is the way and few find it. So many fall away having tried salvation and rejected it.

In order to save them, Christ would need to choose them for salvation, and return to the cross to redeem them which is impossible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4–6) (KJV 1900)

In the parable of the soils, 3/4 of the converts fall away. Jesus says narrow is the way and few find it. So many fall away having tried salvation and rejected it.

In order to save them, Christ would need to choose them for salvation, and return to the cross to redeem them which is impossible.

That makes no sense.

They were saved and then later became unsaved. One does not rejoice in the gospel and then later fall away. You cannot fall away from something you never had. The plant that grows from the seed also signifies that had life in them. Life is salvation.

 

[eleos1954]

Hebrews 6:1 says LAYING NOT AGAIN the foundation of repentance and faith towards GOD. A person who has not accepted Christ has not laid the foundation of repentance yet. They cannot LAY AGAIN such a foundation of repentance.

Hebrews 6

1So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. 2You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.

The people he was speaking to already knew the basic fundamentals. So he was telling them, you already know these things and lets move on to the teaching about those who once believed and choose to completely turn away from God.

4For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— 6and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

 

[Dave L]

That makes no sense.

They were saved and then later became unsaved. One does not rejoice in the gospel and then later fall away. You cannot fall away from something you never had. The plant that grows from the seed also signifies that had life in them. Life is salvation.

They were never saved or they would have remained.

 

[RaymondG]

Discuss.

It would help greatly if you posted the verses, in question, in your OP instead of making everyone have to search for it before answering...

 

[RaymondG]

I believe these verses are explaining how unlikely it is for the one, filled with the spirit, to fall away. And if, in the unlikely event that, they do they will not come back.

 

[RDKirk]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Let me make a quick point here. The writer is not ticking multiple items off a checklist, he is compounding one particular idea (a rhetorical tactic he uses a couple of other times in the letter).

The basic idea: This person is "saved," at least as saved as any of us can determine. He states several different ways the person is saved, quadrupling down the single point.

 

[SeventyOne]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Let me make a quick point here. The writer is not ticking multiple items off a checklist, he is compounding one particular idea (a rhetorical tactic he uses a couple of other times in the letter).

The basic idea: This person is "saved," at least as saved as any of us can determine. He states several different ways the person is saved, quadrupling down the single point.

Except he is in no way saying such a person is saved. That is only assumed by some to make a point. In fact, he seems to go out of his way to NOT say such a person is actually saved.

If you could take each point and cross-reference it with other scripture, showing us through 2 or 3 witnesses that every point mentioned is a sign of sure salvation, you might have something.

 

[Rubiks]

Hebrews 6 teaches someone can lose their salvation. Don't let exegetical gymnastics tell you otherwise.

 

[disciple Clint]

Discuss.

Hebrews 6:1 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

 

[Rubiks]

Except he is in no way saying such a person is saved. That is only assumed by some to make a point. In fact, he seems to go out of his way to NOT say such a person is actually saved.

If you could take each point and cross-reference it with other scripture, showing us through 2 or 3 witnesses that every point mentioned is a sign of sure salvation, you might have something.

"Renew" to repentance implies they were formerly in a state in of repentence. The doctrine of eternal security says all past, present, and future sins have been covered by Jesus Christ. Hebrews says the opposite and that sin can cut one of God's grace.

Also, not every NT writer uses the word salvation as something that occurred in the past.

 

[SeventyOne]

"Renew" to repentance implies they were formerly in a state in of repentence. The doctrine of eternal security says all past, present, and future sins have been covered by Jesus Christ. Hebrews says the opposite and that sin can cut one of God's grace.

Also, not every NT writer uses salvation as something that occurred in the past.

A state of repentance doesn't mean one is saved. It's more of a gateway to trusting in Him alone for salvation. Besides, Colossians tells us that all our sins were forgiven at the point of the cross, when they were all future from our perspective. That would include those still in our own personal future.

 

[Rubiks]

In order to save them, Christ would need to choose them for salvation,

Wrong. Matthew 11:21 (NRSV) “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

 

[Rubiks]

A state of repentance doesn't mean one is saved. It's more of a gateway to trusting in Him alone for salvation. Besides, Colossians tells us that all our sins were forgiven at the point of the cross, when they were all future from our perspective. That would include those still in our own personal future.

Show me one verse in the Bible that states someone repented and at least heavily implies that they were not saved.

 

[Sound Doctrine]

First, from the KJV - Hebrews 6:4-6 - "4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

The following parable should explain the meaning of Hebrews 6:4-6:

"4 And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable: 5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. 6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. 7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. 8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? 10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience." - Luke 8:4-15. It is also in Matthew and Mark.

Hebrews 6 sounds like it is speaking of those who are on the rock. Also, they partake of the Holy Spirit, but it does not say the Holy Spirit indwells them. Remember, "I will never leave you nor forsake you."

Notice also that Jesus has chosen who shall be allowed to hear and believe, and who shall not be chosen. This is part of the teaching of election.

 

[SeventyOne]

Show me one verse in the Bible that states someone repented and at least heavily implies that they were not saved.

That's easy. We are given an entire case study on a false convert in Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8.

 

[Dave L]

Wrong. Matthew 11:21 (NRSV) “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

This isn't speaking about salvation. It is about conformity to the law on a purely civil basis.

 

[bcbsr]

Discuss.

It's not talking about people who are saved losing their salvation. It's talking about apostates. Those masquerading as Christians who end up falling away, such as those John speaks of in 1John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."

Those who fall away from the faith indicate that they had never really belonged to it to begin with.