What do you guys think of Putin's moves this week?

Ioannis

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To be honest, I don't know enough of the situation. I imagine that all involved parties know more. As I stated before, the impression that I get is that it's not a clear-cut issue. There's a division among the people. On the surface, I rarely agree with getting involved with other civil wars. Those are typically domestic issues that need to work themselves out.

Putin is protecting Russian interests. As their president, I can't fault him along those lines. As I said earlier, I really don't know whose "side" I am on. Just praying that it all ends quickly because, no matter what, war is terrible.
 
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jckstraw72

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shrugs I get the point of gzt's posts but maybe that's because I know of at least dozen Orthodox, who used to be regular members of TAW, that have quit this board for the very thing gzt is trying to point out.

meh, the best i can make of it is he's trying to mock a fellow Orthodox and this other fellow is handling it rather well.
 
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RileyG

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I am so lost. I've only been really praying for Ukraine, Russia, Crimea etc but I'm unaware of exactly what on earth is going on.

The US Government is trying to get involved? Did Putin say he has nuclear threat to Ukraine? What?
 
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Dorothea

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To be honest, I don't know enough of the situation. I imagine that all involved parties know more. As I stated before, the impression that I get is that it's not a clear-cut issue. There's a division among the people. On the surface, I rarely agree with getting involved with other civil wars. Those are typically domestic issues that need to work themselves out.

Putin is protecting Russian interests. As their president, I can't fault him along those lines. As I said earlier, I really don't know whose "side" I am on. Just praying that it all ends quickly because, no matter what, war is terrible.
Sorry to quote you again, but your comments are my thoughts on the whole thing.
 
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His commentary escapes me as well. And as for people leaving, notice rusmeister isn't around these days? He got sick of being called a bully and being ganged-up-on for sticking to Orthodox principles and just wanting to talk about being loyal to the Church without our own private opinions trumping our faith. I hope he comes back.

shrugs I get the point of gzt's posts but maybe that's because I know of at least dozen Orthodox, who used to be regular members of TAW, that have quit this board for the very thing gzt is trying to point out.
 
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People are saying this isn't a clear-cut issue. Why would Putin send troops across Ukrainian borders and taunt Obama with his 'the West wouldn't dare mess with us, we're nuclear' comments? What Ukrainian hijinks am I missing? I guess what I'm suggesting is that because the U.S. is so crooked, many folks in here have decided to just trust Putin in just about anything he does because he's Orthodox, Russian, and hates homosexual propaganda. Well, I like those things, but I'm not going to keep an open mind on anything and everything this guy does either. I'm willing to concede Obama is a corrupt fruitcake with zip for morality and quite a dangerous agenda. But I'm also old and wise enough to know Putin is a politician as well, and his moves seem provocative and dangerous as well as hostile. I wish someone could demonstrate otherwise.
 
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tapi

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There's no justification for Putin's moves. From the point of view of a person who lives in a country that shares almost 1000km of common border with Russia and has has to deal with the Russian government on a dialy basis, it has been extremely frustrating to see the blind acceptance of Russians actions.

Russia is acting like a bully. For now, it's clear that it's trying to de-attach the Logansk / Donetsk oblasks from Ukraine. The steady flow of fighters over the borders to Ukraine will not stop until Putin gets what he wants. It's impossible to know what he is planning long-term, but his talks of restoring "Novorussia" are quite scary really.

In Finland we certainly don't feel safe. We are not a NATO nation, yet Russians actions are shifting the public opinion to that direction. Only in the last week, Russian military aircraft violated Finnish airspace several times. According to military specialists the violations were clearly intentional. In it's recent large-scale military exercises, Russia has trained direct attack over our borders.

We can acknowledge that USA's / Wests leaders aren't perfect either, but that doesn't mean we have to blindly support, or turn a blind eye, to other nations' transgressions. Russia is acting like a bully and is acting unpredictably. To see some people support Russia simply because of it's conservatism / orthodoxy seems like madness.
 
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People typically desire greater power because it is an illusory protector against the negative affects of fear and anxiety. Putin is pursuing this greater power for himself by means of making moves that show promise of also enhancing the power of those whom he serves (Russians). This is what leaders must do. Otherwise, the people will ultimately replace them. This is the tragic plight of this unfortunate animal called "man", at least until man can learn that power is a lie and that Love, the highest of affects, is the only power that can save mankind. If man cannot learn this, then we will inevitably perish.
 
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SeventhValley

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did Russia actually invade? seems we've heard this many times now and it hasn't been true yet

Actually the evidence is overwhelming. The pro-Russian Ukrainians even stated 1,000 Russian troops on "vacation"(with full Russian weaponry including armor) helped them out. Plus the numerous satalite photos and eyewitness accounts that all collaborate. Plus the troops geotagged inside Ukraine. Plus the Russian troopers captured in Ukraine. Unless you have a agenda it is pretty clear they are there.

You could argue that they have strategic intrest worth war.But to say they are not there is outside the realm of reality.
 
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@tapi
has has to deal with the Russian government on a dialy basis - did this dealing be profitable?

that it's trying to de-attach the Logansk / Donetsk - wanna Logansk/Donetsk? no problem - offer some billions for gas for Ukraine, make working warranties for gas/oil business to Putins mob + (main and hardest) find possibillity to push out Usa back to home. And you will get it all, may be...By the way, just abstract question - do you want to attach failed state to Finland? If yes so for what?

In Finland we certainly don't feel safe. - buy pumpers and sleep well. If Finland will have enough brain abilities to do not go in disassembly between Us, Ru, Eu so no problems for your country. In good scenario for world, then all business and other kinds of connection between RU and Finland will be reestablished.

@Anhelyna

are from Western Ukraine - Have they ever jumped under screaming "Moscovits on the knives"? Did they be happy during Maidan? Did they accept "Spring Grilled meat from Coloradoes Bugs" in Odessa on 02/05/2014? If they have male relatives from 18 till 45-50 (dont know maximum age barrier for mobilisation) and dont have enough money to escape mobilisation? If yes - so scare and jump, jump and scare.

Conversation between my relatives ( in short retelling):
Sister (East Ua) to Brother (West Ua) during meeting in Moscow: Listen, b?tch. What do you tell to people - everything is ok on East. Yes? So go and live with me in vault under "Grads" attack.
Work of Grad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41-eoRYaAC8

And your friends must remember - They are lucky on today, on today only. Actual shocking videos are made on East.

@jckstraw72

did Russia actually invade - nope. If invaded so rebels would be in Kiev already. But Russia takes part in this bloody perfomance. Mercenaries, pro's from special forces, may be some troops in so-so significant quantities during last days + of course, a lot of volunteers (there are many military pro's through them) - fascists are like a red rag to a bull for RUssians + some material and financial supply. But Russia does nothing more in comparison with other Non-Ukrainian "side" of Ukrainian conflict. All sides are "good" - have made battlefield from Ukraine.

Putins mob had 3 global scenario:

I. leave Ukraine. (Imho in this case, Russia would get serious war conflict with so-so strong army of Russophobic partly nazi country "Ukraine" after 5-10years). But it became impossible due Crimea action.

II. To send army on East of Ua after referrendum of folk. Most safe variant for people and infrastrukture. More over, rebels asked -just give heavy weapons,some supply and nothing more - no troops, no caucasians "volunteers". Nope - i understand why. But hard to accept it for me.

III. Current way of conflict - bloody slow civil war. Its reason why Putin is betrayal for my relatives from E.ua.

+war means presence of a lot of dirty things: maradeurs,thieves, sadists, rapists, maniacs, weapon traders, money-makers (biggest problem).

@Gurneyhalleck1

now with this week's invasion, man, that's pretty tough to argue the pro-Russia side - no invasion. Just "may be some troops in so-so significant quantities during last days" or something else. Its not possible to call it invasion. I have not met any videos, photoes of this event. Juhnta cries and screams about invasion because cant find reasons to explain their fails with anti-terrorist operation except as "hand of RUssia".

About why Putins mob does by this way - no choice for them. Main Usa aim in this situation is to break connections between Ru and Eu. Putin protects. Nothing private, just business.(tm). I dont know anybody who can explain material benefits of attaching Crimea and other parts of failed state "Ukraina".
He didnt plane it, didnt want it, tried to escape it. But his role is to reflex on actions of eventmaker. Putin is demiurg for West and object for mocking in my news feed on regular basis.

@Cappadocious

Holy Russia - There is Holy Russia: Russian Saints, some lands blessed by blood of Martyrs; about holiness of the rest of our country - i dont know.

@RileyG

nuclear threat - one more nonsense from Ukranian Goverment/"talanted storytellers". Lie on lie.
 
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Stephen Kendall

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Protecting interests. That's all it is. The U.S. doesn't help rebels because of some great cause. They do it to protect their own interests. That's it. The same thing Russia is doing which is why I have an attitude of "We've done no better and we have no room to condemn."

The Russian "Soviet Union" really never ended. Ask these former Soviet members how free they think that they are today. Until the entirety of the Soviet Union apparatus dissolves it will spring up again and again. It still is protecting its best interests and may weasel it way out of the world's scrutiny.
 
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I think there is a blindspot in Orthodox circles regarding things like this. There is a patriotism there that is unquestioning toward the homeland of the jurisdiction, but a fierce skepticism toward American moves. It's almost as if to become Orthodox one has to be more patriotic to the home country of one's parish than our own land at times. I know this isn't everyone, but it's there nonetheless!

My parish has a TREMENDOUS blind spot for Serbian atrocities because we're a Serb parish. If thousands of Bosnian Muslims or Croats are found in ditches in holocausts, it is fiction or concocted by the West to make Serbs look bad. My priest has told me, "no Serbian soldier would do such a thing. They're Orthodox." I was BLOWN-AWAY by that statement. As if Serbian Orthodox Christians can't be hypocrites, killers, and fools like anyone else. He even thinks Melocavic didn't realize what was going on....crazy!

Orthodox countries sin like the rest of us. If we can't get past this nationalism stuff, Orthodoxy will remain "ethnic" and a turn-off for converts.

There's no justification for Putin's moves. From the point of view of a person who lives in a country that shares almost 1000km of common border with Russia and has has to deal with the Russian government on a dialy basis, it has been extremely frustrating to see the blind acceptance of Russians actions.

Russia is acting like a bully. For now, it's clear that it's trying to de-attach the Logansk / Donetsk oblasks from Ukraine. The steady flow of fighters over the borders to Ukraine will not stop until Putin gets what he wants. It's impossible to know what he is planning long-term, but his talks of restoring "Novorussia" are quite scary really.

In Finland we certainly don't feel safe. We are not a NATO nation, yet Russians actions are shifting the public opinion to that direction. Only in the last week, Russian military aircraft violated Finnish airspace several times. According to military specialists the violations were clearly intentional. In it's recent large-scale military exercises, Russia has trained direct attack over our borders.

We can acknowledge that USA's / Wests leaders aren't perfect either, but that doesn't mean we have to blindly support, or turn a blind eye, to other nations' transgressions. Russia is acting like a bully and is acting unpredictably. To see some people support Russia simply because of it's conservatism / orthodoxy seems like madness.
 
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Anhelyna

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Oh yes - we know about the mobilisation papers - that's a huge worry [ my priest is on holiday in Ukraine at present ] I know plenty of people in that age group.

I watched the videos coming out of the Maidan , I was appalled at the violence .

I'm still appalled at what's going on and I fear for my Church being forced underground again
 
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buzuxi02

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Actually the evidence is overwhelming. The pro-Russian Ukrainians even stated 1,000 Russian troops on "vacation"(with full Russian weaponry including armor) helped them out. Plus the numerous satalite photos and eyewitness accounts that all collaborate. Plus the troops geotagged inside Ukraine. Plus the Russian troopers captured in Ukraine. Unless you have a agenda it is pretty clear they are there.

You could argue that they have strategic intrest worth war.But to say they are not there is outside the realm of reality.

Really? The US government doesn't even use the word invasion to describe it. They use the word incursion. The only evidence so far is 10 captured paratroopers most of whom are young rookies and in no way elite troops. We know from their videos they were beat up and most likely really did accidently cross into ukraine. The 400+ ukrainian soldiers that crossed into russia was never labeled an invasion.

Then you have the white convoy of trucks that went in for humanitarian supplies and left immediately. We have video of that as well. So where are the videos of russian tanks moving in, the miles of supply lines? The video proof should be overwhelming, plastered all over the media, yet we have nothing.

So instead they rely on 4 or 5 dubious satelite photos. Atleast 3 seperate proclamations by kiev of full scale invasion none of which have been true. Then you have the imaginary armored convoy that was destroyed.

How about releasing some satelite photos of who downed MH17? How about releasing the air traffic control recordings? How about explaining why a non disclosure agreement was neccesary to be signed by Western powers concerning the investigation report.

Spaking of invasion why does the CIA have offices in the maidan? Why are there many privately contacted mercenaries fighting for Kiev???
 
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