What do you guys think of Putin's moves this week?

[SeventhValley]

Really? The US government doesn't even use the word invasion to describe it. They use the word incursion. The only evidence so far is 10 captured paratroopers most of whom are young rookies and in no way elite troops. We know from their videos they were beat up and most likely really did accidently cross into ukraine. The 400+ ukrainian soldiers that crossed into russia was never labeled an invasion.

Then you have the white convoy of trucks that went in for humanitarian supplies and left immediately. We have video of that as well. So where are the videos of russian tanks moving in, the miles of supply lines? The video proof should be overwhelming, plastered all over the media, yet we have nothing.

So instead they rely on 4 or 5 dubious satelite photos. Atleast 3 seperate proclamations by kiev of full scale invasion none of which have been true. Then you have the imaginary armored convoy that was destroyed.

How about releasing some satelite photos of who downed MH17? How about releasing the air traffic control recordings? How about explaining why a non disclosure agreement was neccesary to be signed by Western powers concerning the investigation report.

Spaking of invasion why does the CIA have offices in the maidan? Why are there many privately contacted mercenaries fighting for Kiev???

Did you not read my post? They whole Russian military is not there but some are and are actively fighting. So yea it is not a total invasion. But Russia is not just supporting rebels with aid either they have been in the fight in small units including armor and anti-aircraft missle systems. So they have not totally invaded per say...but I can see why to a Ukrainian it would seem that way.

It is the same as if Turkey sent paratroopers into Greece with a couple tanks and artillery helping ISIS and saying Turkey was not invading Greece.

 

[jckstraw72]

Really? The US government doesn't even use the word invasion to describe it. They use the word incursion. The only evidence so far is 10 captured paratroopers most of whom are young rookies and in no way elite troops. We know from their videos they were beat up and most likely really did accidently cross into ukraine. The 400+ ukrainian soldiers that crossed into russia was never labeled an invasion.

Then you have the white convoy of trucks that went in for humanitarian supplies and left immediately. We have video of that as well. So where are the videos of russian tanks moving in, the miles of supply lines? The video proof should be overwhelming, plastered all over the media, yet we have nothing.

So instead they rely on 4 or 5 dubious satelite photos. Atleast 3 seperate proclamations by kiev of full scale invasion none of which have been true. Then you have the imaginary armored convoy that was destroyed.

How about releasing some satelite photos of who downed MH17? How about releasing the air traffic control recordings? How about explaining why a non disclosure agreement was neccesary to be signed by Western powers concerning the investigation report.

Spaking of invasion why does the CIA have offices in the maidan? Why are there many privately contacted mercenaries fighting for Kiev???

and this is precisely why i asked - every report of Putin being the big bad boogey man is disputed and seems to eventually be proven false - so i see no sense in making hasty judgments this time around.

 

[SeventhValley]

and this is precisely why i asked - every report of Putin being the big bad boogey man is disputed and seems to eventually be proven false - so i see no sense in making hasty judgments this time around.

Actually every thing Ukraine has said has been proven true. Only Russia says it is false.

 

[SeventhValley]

Did you not read my post? They whole Russian military is not there but some are and are actively fighting. So yea it is not a total invasion. But Russia is not just supporting rebels with aid either they have been in the fight in small units including armor and anti-aircraft missle systems. So they have not totally invaded per say...but I can see why to a Ukrainian it would seem that way.

It is the same as if Turkey sent paratroopers into Greece with a couple tanks and artillery helping ISIS and saying Turkey was not invading Greece.

Also add in Turkish fighter jet support and missile support from it's mainland to make it accurate.

 

[prodromos]

Actually every thing Ukraine has said has been proven true. Only Russia says it is false.

Not from where I stand.

 

[jckstraw72]

yeah, i'll wait and see. like i said, heard it before ...

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I know the media, Western included, can exaggerate and give spin, but when they mention satellite intel showing Russian tanks, fighters, and troops invading Ukraine, and we hear Putin quoted directly saying he can do as he pleases because the West wouldn't DARE mess with a nuclear-armed Russia, and he keeps calling Ukrainian territory "nuvorussia," seriously, are we really to understand the media is making all that up? They're falsifying satellite imagery on CNN? They're putting fake voice-overs on Putin? They're lying all the way? That I find a bit hard to believe.

I just wonder why we all have to see Putin as some kind of temporal Orthodox savior? And is the guy infallible? It's a bit scary how high a pedestal we've put this guy on in TAW?

Like I've said, the West is CHUCK-FULL of hypocrisy and sins, but why is Russia immune from criticism?

 

[jckstraw72]

i dont' think anyone has made him a savior or put him on a pedestal ... i'm simply not rushing to trust the media, given its obvious bias against Russia, and it's less-than-stellar track record. i also heard about satellites proving that Russia shot down the Malaysian airliner ...

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Just out of curiosity, what would it take for you to believe he is doing something nefarious? And why the huge trust in him? We do know that he has done some pretty corrupt and crazy stuff through the years starting in his KGB days. The guy is corrupt, like our guy, only possibly worse if reports are true. Why the huge trust in him, and the quick belief that Obama (whom I can't stand incidentally) is wrong when reported?

If you turn on CNN or FOX News and see they're reporting the beheading of a journalist by ISIS, do you not believe that? Do you assume the media is making up false allegations against these Muslims? The U.S. has an agenda to go after terrorists. Perhaps they are falsifying the story and giving fake images concocted in some warehouse in Turkey in costumes? Perhaps the reports about Bin Laden were made up? And Saddam's execution was a sham? And maybe Hitler escaped the bunker and is currently residing in Boca Raton? At what point do we just have some trust? I know the media is corrupt, but to the degree you're claiming, I'm not so sure.

I suggest that, where Russia is concerned, a Rusophile who loves Russian Orthodoxy can be equally blinded to evils committed by his adopted people because he's just so in love. Kind of scares me that we can get so into ethnic religion that we get conspiratorial to the nth degree. The Orthodox who sees Serbs as incapable of slaughter and Russians as the pure and holy people who could never invade a sovereign nation is as bad as the liberal who thinks Obama is some kind of second coming. If we stand back, look at the whole picture, these guys are politicians. So Putin hates the LGBT junk. Great! Doesn't make him a type of political Pope.

i dont' think anyone has made him a savior or put him on a pedestal ... i'm simply not rushing to trust the media, given its obvious bias against Russia, and it's less-than-stellar track record. i also heard about satellites proving that Russia shot down the Malaysian airliner ...

 

[prodromos]

Why the rush to assume any of us trust Putin simply because we don't trust Western media as far as we could kick it?
I don't trust Putin, but I do trust the opinions of certain friends who live near the troubled areas. Nothing coming out of the Western media jives with what I hear from them.
Couple that with everything we have heard from people who lived in Syria being the complete opposite of what was being pumped out by the media regarding president Bashar Assad and then blend that with my personal experience of the Kosovo conflict while living in Greece.

I no longer accept anything I hear at face value. Nine times out of ten, if you follow the money whether it be in the form of petro-dollars or debt to the world banks, you see a very different yet surprisingly clear picture emerge.

 

[buzuxi02]

Just out of curiosity, what would it take for you to believe he is doing something nefarious? And why the huge trust in him?

I can only speak for myself, but the whole point is that it is the MORALLY correct thing for him to intervene including invasion, but he has yet not done so. The NATO/CIA complex is immoral and needs to be slain, many in the east have been shelled to death many of whom are ethnic russians. So he has a moral authority to intervene.

If you turn on CNN or FOX News and see they're reporting the beheading of a journalist by ISIS, do you not believe that? Do you assume the media is making up false allegations against these Muslims? The U.S. has an agenda to go after terrorists.

The thing is the muslim terrorists confirmed that they have done this. Some things the Russians have confirmed and of course the Kievan government paraded the video proof of it. Where is the proof of a military convoy destroyed by Kievan forces a few weeks ago? Where is the proof rebels shot down MH17 and why has the malaysian government confirmed there is no evidence. Why did the Kiev government a few weeks ago claim victory was imminent and that they recaptured a rebel town and put up a Ukraine flag? I guess they forgot that whoever put up that flag it was staged borrowing the entire idea from those german fellas who replaced american flags on top of the brooklyn bridge with white ones!


Now back to the jihadist, what I'm not too sure about is how 'imminent' a terrorist attack is on this soil. I definately think the politicians are whipping people in a frenzy on that. I am also not too sure whether the US has an agenda to go after terrorists, after all most of them are our allies, allies whom sometimes overstep their boundaries.


And here is an interesting open letter to Merkel released just now by the former director of the NSA William Binney with interesting insider knowledge :


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...s-write-open-letter-merkel-avoid-all-out-ukra

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

What was your personal experience with Kosovo while living in Greece? I'd be interested to hear it for sure.

Why the rush to assume any of us trust Putin simply because we don't trust Western media as far as we could kick it?
I don't trust Putin, but I do trust the opinions of certain friends who live near the troubled areas. Nothing coming out of the Western media jives with what I hear from them.
Couple that with everything we have heard from people who lived in Syria being the complete opposite of what was being pumped out by the media regarding president Bashar Assad and then blend that with my personal experience of the Kosovo conflict while living in Greece.

I no longer accept anything I hear at face value. Nine times out of ten, if you follow the money whether it be in the form of petro-dollars or debt to the world banks, you see a very different yet surprisingly clear picture emerge.

 

[Trying_to_be_Orthodox]

.

 

[Dorothea]

Why the rush to assume any of us trust Putin simply because we don't trust Western media as far as we could kick it?
I don't trust Putin, but I do trust the opinions of certain friends who live near the troubled areas. Nothing coming out of the Western media jives with what I hear from them.
Couple that with everything we have heard from people who lived in Syria being the complete opposite of what was being pumped out by the media regarding president Bashar Assad and then blend that with my personal experience of the Kosovo conflict while living in Greece.

I no longer accept anything I hear at face value. Nine times out of ten, if you follow the money whether it be in the form of petro-dollars or debt to the world banks, you see a very different yet surprisingly clear picture emerge.

 

[seekingfreedom]

I can only speak for myself, but the whole point is that it is the MORALLY correct thing for him to intervene including invasion, but he has yet not done so. The NATO/CIA complex is immoral and needs to be slain, many in the east have been shelled to death many of whom are ethnic russians. So he has a moral authority to intervene.



The thing is the muslim terrorists confirmed that they have done this. Some things the Russians have confirmed and of course the Kievan government paraded the video proof of it. Where is the proof of a military convoy destroyed by Kievan forces a few weeks ago? Where is the proof rebels shot down MH17 and why has the malaysian government confirmed there is no evidence. Why did the Kiev government a few weeks ago claim victory was imminent and that they recaptured a rebel town and put up a Ukraine flag? I guess they forgot that whoever put up that flag it was staged borrowing the entire idea from those german fellas who replaced american flags on top of the brooklyn bridge with white ones!


Now back to the jihadist, what I'm not too sure about is how 'imminent' a terrorist attack is on this soil. I definately think the politicians are whipping people in a frenzy on that. I am also not too sure whether the US has an agenda to go after terrorists, after all most of them are our allies, allies whom sometimes overstep their boundaries.


And here is an interesting open letter to Merkel released just now by the former director of the NSA William Binney with interesting insider knowledge :


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...s-write-open-letter-merkel-avoid-all-out-ukra

 

[seekingfreedom]

Not to get off topic, but since Islamic terrorists were brought up, we have funded and supplied them with weapons in Libya and Syria to oust Gadaffi and attempt to oust Assad. While Christians in Syria were calling out to the U.S. to stop supplying the rebels with arms! Now we have it being reported yesterday that 11 commercial planes were stolen from Tripoli airport. It goes back a lot farther than that. What are we doing??

Israel? That's a whole 'nother rant

There is so much going on, it's sad. All we can do is pray and provide humanitarian relief for those who are suffering. Bring refugees to this country, the way Russia has had to accept refugees from the Ukraine.

But, as someone said, if Russia wanted to take Ukraine, they could have done it a long time ago and NATO couldn't stop them. Keep pushing sanctions on Russia. It makes no sense. Sanctions are an act of war. Sometimes I wonder if it's what we want.

It's not what I want.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

When we invaded Iraq, at first I was for the war buying the neo-con line about WMD, and trusting our president. Within a year of the prosecution of that war, I really came to have a change of heart realizing just how wrong I had been and how utterly corrupt and sickening the whole affair really was. When looking back at American foreign policy, the CIA has created chaos and coups and all sorts of insanity in some countries in the Middle East, Latin America, Asia, etc. Our collaborations with Saddam, Osama, and a host of other thugs has come to bit us in the fanny. We have a lot to atone for, a lot of mistakes under our belt.

But I don't think simply because the U.S. has made some idiotic moves and committed immoral acts in the past ALWAYS means somehow Russia is the new "good guy" on the block who is above corruption and big take-overs. We must critically think and raise an eyebrow where it is due. And at some point we can't keep using American failures and the past to somehow exonerate Putin's actions and machinations. Yes, there was Vietnam, Saddam, setting up Shahs in Iran, arming rebels here and there, giving WMD to nefarious guys, and a laundry list of other things, but if we're going to dwell on the past, we must also focus on Putin's KGB past, the fact that Russia is only twenty years removed from being a massive atheist, communist menace hell-bent on taking over the world. If we need to drudge up the past in every argument, why the blind spot with Russia? In conversations with my priest, he is VERY suspicious toward Russia and has some strong opinions toward them. I know that many Orthodox don't blindly follow Russia, but judging from TAW, you'd think our message board is the duma!

Not to get off topic, but since Islamic terrorists were brought up, we have funded and supplied them with weapons in Libya and Syria to oust Gadaffi and attempt to oust Assad. While Christians in Syria were calling out to the U.S. to stop supplying the rebels with arms! Now we have it being reported yesterday that 11 commercial planes were stolen from Tripoli airport. It goes back a lot farther than that. What are we doing??

Israel? That's a whole 'nother rant

There is so much going on, it's sad. All we can do is pray and provide humanitarian relief for those who are suffering. Bring refugees to this country, the way Russia has had to accept refugees from the Ukraine.

But, as someone said, if Russia wanted to take Ukraine, they could have done it a long time ago and NATO couldn't stop them. Keep pushing sanctions on Russia. It makes no sense. Sanctions are an act of war. Sometimes I wonder if it's what we want.

It's not what I want.

 

[SeventhValley]

Ok so Ukraine is just as Orthodox as Russia. So why so much hate toward it?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Ok so Ukraine is just as Orthodox as Russia. So why so much hate toward it?

no hate towards Ukraine. gurney just explained why he does not trust Putin and why we should blindly follow neither

 

[Dorothea]

There have been a few reports that the US is involved in the stirring up trouble in Ukraine because it wants to destabilize Russia.