So then in all of our debating the subject,
Who is able to Question Gods' ways?
What Christian wouldn't agree to this? What the question really is, is this: What are God's ways?
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So then in all of our debating the subject,
Who is able to Question Gods' ways?
The Bible says that we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. Some choose to go along with the Holy Spirit to develop their sanctification in that direction, and others don't.
Seems not all are called?
Many are called few are chosen.
And then The Bible mentions that some have the devil as their father. These ones it seems were never headed for heaven?
M-Bob
How does Calvinism teach what is will keep being the way it is?well, it's an intense debate, according to calvinism we are predestined so:
-the catholic will keep being catholic
-the protestant will keep being evangelical
-the christian orthodox will keep being orthodox
-the follower of judaism will keep their religion
maybe all these movements think they are right and the others religions lead to hell
None of us were headed for heaven. But God had other plans for some of us.Seems not all are called?
Many are called few are chosen.
And then The Bible mentions that some have the devil as their father. These ones it seems were never headed for heaven?
M-Bob
I take it quite a bit further than most; I think it's logical to conclude that God "inhabits" (for lack of a better word) every minutest particle and form of energy and matter. Most surely, IMHO, he is in total control of every cause and effect. Nothing happens without his "say-so" (again, for lack of a better word).
I think you missed Paul's point. I believe he is specifically speaking to a hardened Jew, asking why God would blame him for his hard heart, when God was using it to reach gentiles. He has been re telling the story of Israel's past to show how God worked through them to carry on the salvation plan. He doesn't suddenly shift gears with; "One of you will say to me: 21Then why does God still blame us? Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?"Why Paul is speaking to the Church at Rome, which was predominately Gentile, he was explaining to them that our God is a Sovereign God, I believe God from the time of those statement from Paul about Him has not changed one wit, therefore to answer your question, YES, but while Paul did not directly address these verses to us, he is speaking to all Christians of all time, his statements were not time sensitive, there is no expiration date on Gods' being Sovereign.
Thanks for the comment.
What is needed is an accurate exegesis surrounding that statement of Jesus. Before we can seek to apply it to modern unbelievers, we need to know who Jesus was speaking to, why He made the statement, and how His listeners understood what He was saying to them. Was He making the statement to the general crowd of people, or was it to a select group of people for a particular reason?Seems not all are called?
Many are called few are chosen.
And then The Bible mentions that some have the devil as their father. These ones it seems were never headed for heaven?
M-Bob
True that!A funny thing then, God must have predestined me to not believe in that.
You have never seen awakened people who went back to their former un awakened state?
in fact, the unforgivable sin is to resist to the point where one can no longer hear the Spirit's call.
You are incorrect as to what Scripture says!
Ephesians 1:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
He chose (eklegomai)(aorist middle indicative) meaning He decided by Himself to elect us before He created us!
He also predestinated us (pro horizo mark out in advance )
Why did He do this? Is it because we maintained being good doobies? No! "according to the good pleasure of his will," He did it because it pleased HIm to do it!
I wonder why there's so many verses that warn us about falling into false teachings and falling away, if it's impossible? In fact the normal proof text for those going out from us not being of us is about people who were false teachers when they went out. And is followed by a warning:can say by my own experience that I never went back to my former unawakened state. And that was 30 plus years ago. Someone who "forsakes the faith" never had it.
I wonder why there's so many verses that warn us about falling into false teachings and falling away, if it's impossible? In fact the normal proof text for those going out from us not being of us is about people who were false teachers when they went out. And is followed by a warning:
24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
This is absurd. If you are either predestined to damnation or redemption, praying could not possibly change anything. If however, salvation is offered to all, praying fervently availith much.They start to pray: God, could I be lucky enough for that to be me! I really need You to save me, because if You don't; I'm screwed and I know it!
I think you missed Paul's point. I believe he is specifically speaking to a hardened Jew, asking why God would blame him for his hard heart, when God was using it to reach gentiles. He has been re telling the story of Israel's past to show how God worked through them to carry on the salvation plan. He doesn't suddenly shift gears with; "One of you will say to me: 21Then why does God still blame us? Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?"
The clay is Israel, as seen in Jeremiah 18. Notice Paul doesn't say we don't have free will to resist. Just the opposite, he asked the objector who he is to talk back to God, something that is impossible if God overrules our minds and hearts. Paul makes the same points in Romans 3, with the same basic conclusion: justification is through faith, not the law.
We need all that but what we don't have from Jesus that we need an exegesis from, in ordet to apply a universal hermeneutic to so we can apply it to any who might be potentially saved.What is needed is an accurate exegesis surrounding that statement of Jesus. Before we can seek to apply it to modern unbelievers, we need to know who Jesus was speaking to, why He made the statement, and how His listeners understood what He was saying to them. Was He making the statement to the general crowd of people, or was it to a select group of people for a particular reason?
Once we have done that, we can apply hermeneutics to determine how the statement would apply to modern-day unbelievers, and whether it would support a doctrine of predestination where some are deliberately created to spend an eternity in hell. As part of that consideration, the nature and character of God needs to be taken into account; also how the statement corresponds with the gospel invitation that is open to all who would come to Jesus and receive Him as Saviour, and whether God would issue an invitation to those to whom He is not intending to respond to it. Then we need to determine the criteria in which God chooses souls for salvation and those He decides not to choose.
This is absurd. If you are either predestined to damnation or redemption, praying could not possibly change anything. If however, salvation is offered to all, praying fervently availith much.
This is absurd. If you are either predestined to damnation or redemption, praying could not possibly change anything. If however, salvation is offered to all, praying fervently availith much.