• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured we are ALL PREDESTINED

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by lambofgod43985889, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. lambofgod43985889

    lambofgod43985889 Active Member Supporter

    348
    +136
    Argentina
    Protestant
    Private
    well, it's an intense debate, according to calvinism we are predestined so:
    -the catholic will keep being catholic
    -the protestant will keep being evangelical
    -the christian orthodox will keep being orthodox
    -the follower of judaism will keep their religion

    maybe all these movements think they are right and the others religions lead to hell
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

    +5,069
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Or, maybe predestination simply means that from God's perspective, He knows the outcome. Since we don't however, we are told to choose. But I do believe that the Catholic will be a Catholic, and the Jew a Jew, and a Baptist a Baptist and that, in the end.... what we will finally look like is somewhere in between them all. :)
     
  3. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Catechumen

    +3,226
    Ecuador
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    I never understood if I was predestined to like Taylor Swift (and cats).
    tay cats.gif
     
  4. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    +7,061
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    The Bible says that we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. Some choose to go along with the Holy Spirit to develop their sanctification in that direction, and others don't.
     
  5. D.A. Wright

    D.A. Wright Once For All-ist Supporter

    623
    +246
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    US-Others
    The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)
     
  6. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    +1,861
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    The Lords people are all over the world ... His sheep are scattered and they know His voice.
     
  7. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,835
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    There are seven churches that we read about in the book of Rev. However many churches there are, they are going to be one of those seven. Judaism has a different covenant with God. We are under the New Covenant based on better promises. We are the Bride, they are the friend of the Bridegroom.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  8. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

    +7,240
    Calvinist
    Single
    US-Democrat
    I don't think anyone is predestined to be Catholic or orthodox. I certainly don't think anyone who isn't a religious Christian is predestined to hell. I believe in trusting God to judge all things in righteousness.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  9. ajcarey

    ajcarey Member

    232
    +189
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    God's chosen (i.e. elect) are all those who meet His conditions of repentance and faith in Christ. The Bible never speaks about God choosing individuals before the foundation of the world to heaven or hell. What God chose before the foundation of the world was His gracious and appropriate plan to send His Son to redeem sinners to Himself and restore them to His image. All who meet the conditions to partake in this plan are chosen (i.e. elect) due to their faithful identification with THE Chosen One, Jesus Christ.

    1 Peter 2:4-11 "4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul"

    John 3:17-20 "17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

    John 3:35-36 "35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
     
  10. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

    +1,643
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    What would make anyone believe in this day and age, "We are the Bride of Christ"?
     
  11. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

    +1,643
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    Aren't the Children of the Jews, Catholics, and Orthodox all Predestined by their Churches, to become the same as their Parents, in the Practice of the same Religion?
     
  12. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

    +1,643
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    The Jewish Believers of the First Church, were the ones spoken of as being the Chosen, the Elect.

    These two terms do not relate to Gentiles at all.
     
  13. jamesbond007

    jamesbond007 Well-Known Member

    707
    +205
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    It's not up to us to decide who goes to hell. Yet, we were all predestined before we were born. It's too confusing. Jesus did not come to save for nothing. He will be the final judge. Thus, we end up believing what we want to believe. We do not know what the future holds? I even met an atheist who trolled God by blaming him for retardation and evil, ignored Satan, but he said that Jesus paid for all of humandkind's sins. God only existed to take the blame. This is the free will that God gave us, so let us accept it with joy. It doesn't mean that our arguments will stop. It's business as usual in that regard. It means one continues to seek the truth and validate for themselves.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  14. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Soli Deo Gloria

    +2,437
    United States
    Reformed
    Single
    US-Republican
    Predestination means that God was in charge of your salvation from start to finish.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  15. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +5,276
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    No debate.
     
  16. ajcarey

    ajcarey Member

    232
    +189
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    God's chosen (i.e. elect) are all those who meet His conditions of repentance and faith in Christ. The Bible never speaks about God choosing individuals before the foundation of the world to heaven or hell. What God chose before the foundation of the world was His gracious and appropriate plan to send His Son to redeem sinners to Himself and restore them to His image. All who meet the conditions to partake in this plan are chosen (i.e. elect) due to their faithful identification with THE Chosen One, Jesus Christ.

    1 Peter 2:4-11 "4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul"

    John 3:17-20 "17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

    John 3:35-36 "35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
    Not so. The Christians Peter wrote to were a mix of Jewish and Gentile Christians. All Christians who are submitted to Christ's Lordship and keep His Word are His chosen and elect. Do the following verses only apply to Jewish believers of the First Church? Of course not.

    Mark 13:27 "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

    James 2:5 "Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?"

    Luke 18:7 "And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?"

    Colossians 3:12 "Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering"

    And even if you were to make the insane conclusion that these verses only applied to Jewish believers of the first church (whatever you mean by that), it would still prove that choosing and election do not mean what the Reformed Theologians say it means.
     
  17. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

    +1,643
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    Did I say your belief was insane, NO, I just said it was wrong, but you attack that which you do not know nor understand as insane, (Typical Christian response) and by the way and those Reformed Theologians you speak of, they were wrong as well, and their being wrong, is precisely the reason you are.

    When you learn how to do your own research of things and cease taking the Beliefs of others without, researching the truth of the matter beforehand, then maybe, just maybe you will then understand.

    Sorry.

    Your Jas 2:5 reference does not apply at all.
     
  18. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

    +7,240
    Calvinist
    Single
    US-Democrat
    I don't think it decides heaven and hell, dependinding on their secret motives. Churches and religious institutions don't descide heaven and hell for practitioners. My rule of thumb is we know what people do, God knows why.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  19. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

    818
    +166
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    Hi Mark,

    I do think some are predestined, but others are in God's foreknowledge. Everyone in the genealogy to Noah was predestined, and then Shem's line to Abraham and Isaac. Jacob was predestined, but not Esau. The whole Jewish nation was predestined, but not the Edomites. David was predestined to be King, but not Saul, David's predecessor. The apostles were predestined including Judas so that prophecy could be fulfilled.

    When you read the first chapter of Ephesians I see the "predestined" Paul is talking about is his people, the Jews to whom the message of the righteousness of God and the Messiah came.

    Have you ever thought about it like that?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  20. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,835
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    My reference was to our relationship with Jesus compared to the "Jewish" nations relationship with Jesus. This is a comparison. It is against the rules to suggest who will be a part of the Bride of Christ. This will be based on their Garment and having oil in their lamp.
     
Loading...