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Does this mean you admit that you're unwilling to change your interpretation of the bible even though you have admited it could be wrong?
dad said:Your picture was like a fairy tale to me. Didn't it have the sun somewhere else, and some kind of solid covering around the earth? There are several interpretations of what this firmament business means. Yours is only one.
No, your idea is premised on the box must be all there is, and we don't see it in the box, therefore no spiritual must exist, despite billions claiming otherwise! My ideas are rich with biblical support, just open up a bible, and try to prove me wrong, and see how you fare!!! Also, my ideas embrace and accept all physical science, so don't forget that!DJ_Ghost said:Hardly check let alone mate. Your idea is premised on “if this is true I win the argument” and has neither scientific or biblical support. I’ve seen some desperate tactics in my time but this has to be the funniest.
Ghost
dad said:No, your idea is premised on the box must be all there is, and we don't see it in the box, therefore no spiritual must exist, despite billions claiming otherwise! My ideas are rich with biblical support, just open up a bible, and try to prove me wrong, and see how you fare!!! Also, my ideas embrace and accept all physical science, so don't forget that!
Guess where that leaves your post? Ha
.Battie said:Sure it's like a fairy tale. But so is what you're saying. If you think that the laws of physics don't apply before the split, then why couldn't the stars have been stuck into a solid sky with an ocean above them? [The word of God applied, and will always be here even after the merge! So, I don't see any fairy tales in there, myself, and obviously the death of the box can not long apply here! Besides, if stars were crazy glued firmly, how could they be for signs, which require some unusual activity!? Like the stsr the wise men saw, if it was glued, we'd see it still!]] It explains perfectly where all that flood water came from after all. [You need to work on your humor, it is quite droll] Are you yourself stuck in the box that you accuse science of being in? [I accept physical science, and the wisdom of the box it is in, but am not limited only by it!]
You're having a pretty hard time accepting that this model of the universe, even though it's pretty much the same as your own, was science to the Hebrews and other ancients. If you can't accept this model, then why are you so adamant that we accept a young earth? Like a solid sky, rotating, sun, and heavenly ocean, six day creation has been falsified by modern science. [The heavenly ocean? You don't mean the sea of glass do you, in Revelations? Cause that really is around! 6 day creation is not false, and those who think it is falsified only inadvertatly admit that their falsification abilities are severely handicapped! As far as the sun rotating around the earth, we know, with physical science that is not so. What we do not know is what will revolve around what in the coming, merged, complete, eternal new heaven and new earth!!!!! So I wouldn't get to haughty totty!]
.Nathan Poe said:I'll accept your hypothesis on the water canopy, and swear that it all makes perfect sense, but my research has shown one critical flaw in your idea.[Try including the bible in your research, and now that you have seen the split is right, even clear into the flood time, the hangovers of evoism (in this case in the form of a universe not speck created, but somehow a desert now) will dissapear. But don't worry, we can eat in the coming complete eternal universe, and you can have some of your favorite deserts]
Accept this change to your idea, and I'll accept your canopy hypothesis.
The canopy was, in fact, made entirely out of strawberry custard.
Are you willing to accept the custard canopy theory, or are you stuck in the box? [When I refer to the box, it is to the limitations, and boundries inevetible in the study of a physical only universe. The box your custard is in is probably not legal, not in the bible, and my accepted physical sciences disprove it out of hand! I don't even need to use the spirit world here. But glad, the ice is starting to thaw, and you seem to be starting to come around]
dad said:No, your idea is premised on the box must be all there is, and we don't see it in the box, therefore no spiritual must exist, despite billions claiming otherwise! My ideas are rich with biblical support, just open up a bible, and try to prove me wrong, and see how you fare!!! Also, my ideas embrace and accept all physical science, so don't forget that!
Guess where that leaves your post? Ha
All I admit could be wrong, is that the split took some time to happen. This does not affect creation, the spirit world, the bible as God's word, or anything else. But we have to work out an equation with known quantities, and the flood is one! How could it have happened, especially if it involved the fountains of the heaven opening, unless under the auspices of 'greater physics'? In other words, with the split that left us in a physical only world not having completely occured yet?Douglaangu v2.0 said:Dad, could you please address this.
dad said:All I admit could be wrong, is that the split took some time to happen. This does not affect creation, the spirit world, the bible as God's word, or anything else. But we have to work out an equation with known quantities, and the flood is one! How could it have happened, especially if it involved the fountains of the heaven opening, unless under the auspices of 'greater physics'? In other words, with the split that left us in a physical only world not having completely occured yet?
Of course it does! All of it. Unless we try to ignore that there is more at work, and limit all past and future to the tiny dimensions of physical only science! Perhaps you should look for a forum where atheism, and all it's specks, grannies, and dreamworld pasts can be discussed from only in box?Ishmael Borg said:If you are a creationist troll, and not an atheist troll posing as a creationist troll, then I'd have to tell you that the biblical support you allege for your ideas should be presented in another forum, along with your ideas. No evidence from physical science supports creationism, so you can't be correct in your last point.
dad said:[Try including the bible in your research, and now that you have seen the split is right, even clear into the flood time, the hangovers of evoism (in this case in the form of a universe not speck created, but somehow a desert now) will dissapear. But don't worry, we can eat in the coming complete eternal universe, and you can have some of your favorite deserts]
dad said:[When I refer to the box, it is to the limitations, and boundries inevetible in the study of a physical only universe. The box your custard is in is probably not legal, not in the bible, and my accepted physical sciences disprove it out of hand! I don't even need to use the spirit world here. But glad, the ice is starting to thaw, and you seem to be starting to come around]
dad said:Of course it does! All of it. Unless we try to ignore that there is more at work, and limit all past and future to the tiny dimensions of physical only science! Perhaps you should look for a forum where atheism, and all it's specks, grannies, and dreamworld pasts can be discussed from only in box?
When I look at science, and the bible, I see a harmonious duo. When I look at the known spirit world, and include it, I hear even more beutiful music.
Einstein ran up against some problems he never could figure out. How do we explain quantum physics, and relativity? The quest for the grand unifying theory. Well, folks, this is it! The spirit world is real, and explains the things the physical alone never never will be able to do by itself!
.Freodin said:What? You throw out physical science everywhere it does not suit you -[Nowhere! I like it all! Of course, we cannot try to ignore spiritual science, and how they have worked together, just to suit some fantasyland where the creator is replaced by magically appearing all containing specks!] and then you claim you "embrace and accept" it? [Of course, as far as it can go, yes, it's all mine]
In you endeavour to escape the "box", as you call it, you commit two grave mistakes. [the mistake of accepting only physical science is that it leads only to the grave!!!!!]
The first one is that you ignore that this "box" is the foundation of communication. We need to have a basis that we all can find to exchange ideas. It is not possible to simple state "well, it could be different, just as I need it, so your limits don´t apply to me". [Don't know what you're talking about. People communicated fine before we got modern science, it's nice, but I can still communicate without it. For example I could talk, or sing, or send smoke signals!]
The second is that you don´t escape the "box" at all - you just withdraw into a box of you own. This box consists of a very limited and very individual interpretation of the Biblical texts. [Not at all. Jesus rose from the dead, and science of the physical only had nothing to do with it. Same with heaven, the prohesies, Daniel in the furnace, etc etc. No narrowness needed]
The problem that now arises from these two mistakes is what makes conversation with you so difficult - you assume that your box is the correct one, [False. I don't have a box. I am set free of the limitations of physical only, because there is infinitely more, not because I have some sub box! Free free free, 'O death, where is thy sting?'] but as you are the only one sitting in it, you are inable to share your ideas with anyone else. [Not all parables are equal, some are more like a broken cane]
As long as you cannot find a common ground with the people you talk to, your posts are just meaningless.
And as long as you don´t accept that you don´t cross limits, but simple raise different limits, you won´t be able to find that common ground. [As long as you accept that mubbling doesn't really do anyone much good, you might be inspired to come up with some substance, not much at first, perhaps, but, who knows, it could grow into a recognizable point some day!]
But not that your falliable interpretation of the bible could be?dad said:All I admit could be wrong, is that the split took some time to happen.
This does not affect creation, the spirit world, the bible as God's word, or anything else.
Its not known. Its claimed to have occured, in the face on physical evidence (even in 'the box' you would expect there to be some remanants)But we have to work out an equation with known quantities, and the flood is one!
How could it have happened, especially if it involved the fountains of the heaven opening, unless under the auspices of 'greater physics'?
In other words, with the split that left us in a physical only world not having completely occured yet?
Now that is interesting. I would like to see your explanation for this story.dad said:Daniel in the furnace
So, I refered to the firat magically appearing lifeform as 'Granny', or 'Grandma Bacteria' -and you now have a term as well. "magic-sky-grandpa". I assume this must be God? Well, we don't have to reject or ignore God to employ and enjoy science. We can have all the physical science men so far have discovered, and much more as well. True science is not at all agnostic! Only the measley little portion of the box. Even then, the only ones who try to keep God out of their little prison cell are those who want to. We all don't. We don't have to. Creation/science discussion including physical only based science portions, does not have to leave out the creator at all! If it did leave out the Raison D'etre-it would better fit in some paganistic pigion hole, rather than in a debate on creation. Especially one on a christian site! deal with it.Ishmael Borg said:Science is agnostic. It doesn't care about your magic grandpa in the sky, and it doesn't deny his existence either. This forum is for the science box, I'm proud to say. Take your magic-sky-grandpa-box delusions elsewhere.
I very much doubt it. Same as in our day, there are miracles, or Jesus' day. My opinion of these types of things is a localized exception, or interference, or addition of spirit power. The difference is, with the split, the whole universe was affected. (How we see the stars, light, lightspeed, decay etc) In isolated events, the spirit is just added into the equation to affect a local outcome.Freodin said:Now that is interesting. I would like to see you explanation for this story.
How could it be that humans would not burn in such an inferno, but rather escpate unscated?
Could it be that the normal physical laws did not apply there?
Could it be that this spiritual/physical split was still not completeted in Daniels time?
So, I refered to the firat magically appearing lifeform as 'Granny', or 'Grandma Bacteria' -and you now have a term as well. "magic-sky-grandpa". I assume this must be God? Well, we don't have to reject or ignore God to employ and enjoy science. We can have all the physical science men so far have discovered, and much more as well. True science is not at all agnostic! Only the measley little portion of the box. Even then, the only ones who try to keep God out of their little prison cell are those who want to. We all don't. We don't have to. Creation/science discussion including physical only based science portions, does not have to leave out the creator at all! If it did leave out the Raison D'etre-it would better fit in some paganistic pigion hole, rather than in a debate on creation. Especially one on a christian site! deal with it
dad said:I very much doubt it. Same as in our day, there are miracles, or Jesus' day. My opinion of these types of things is a localized exception, or interference, or addition of spirit power. The difference is, with the split, the whole universe was affected. (How we see the stars, light, lightspeed, decay etc) In isolated events, the spirit is just added into the equation to affect a local outcome.
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