Water canopy check, and mate!

[dad]

Newsflash: the Earth is subject to the laws of physics. [Newsflash: It won't be!]

In essence: "Lots of people believe in God, and this supports my belief in the Vapor Canopy." Listen to what you're saying. [ Jesus rose from the dead, and the bible is full of miracles, as is the planet of men! Of course things support belief in a spirit world! Unlike granny.]
You're still advocating an unsupported assertion, now you're just adding the appeal to numbers fallacy (and a non sequitur, at that) on top of it. [ Hey some asked for some numbers, don't blame me!]

.

 

[Douglaangu v2.0]

No need. If you agree to the basic concept here, of the thread, we can then fine tune, however.

So you cannot demonstrate that the image posted is not the correct interpretation?

Sorry if I'm not up on the loonie tune theories. I don't believe in any gaps, just 6000 years. And a known spirit world, that has known effects on the physical!

God-O-Gaps is what happens when things previously though to be supernatural or supernatural in origin are demonstrated to have be natural or have natural orgins. Volacanos and tornadoes and eclipses etc.
Which is exactly what you're proposing. Science cannot currently explain something, therefore it must be supernatural and can never be explained.

Known effects you say? Like what?

Your detection of an absolute proven quantity, you mean. The track record of science detecting it's way out of a paper bag is dismal

What are you talking about? Because of science we know why events previously thought to be supernatural occur. Seems like pretty good 'detection'.

 

[dad]

[/color][/b][/i]Thats alot to type when you're saying "No".
Strike One: You don't have anything beyond your own speculations. [No. Trying to have solid evidence of something not solid, is not strike one, it's batty. Especially when you disregard the Homerun of Jesus, and all the other innings, where the physical only strikes out!]



Out with it then. I should remind you that once you 'prove' the supernatural it ceases to be supernatural, and becomes natural. [You're catching on!. It is only thought unnatral to those of the box unable to see it or touch it!]
Strike Two: Again, your interpretation of the bible, which you have admited could be wrong. Sounds to me like your ideas are no more stable than the science you claim to be limited. [So my ideas are almost as unstable as science? I'm glad you said, 'almost'!]



You didn't even provide a forumula to test. ["Prove Me now herewith, saith the Lord..." And millions have. Don't think that the physical only science of the box is the grand exalted judge that all things must fit into!] Only your speculations and interpretation.
Could you explain how E=MC2 would be changed by your idea? [ The speed of light, when in a complete spiritual/physical state is limitless. Energy is not limited as it is here either. Mass is not physical only either. These are a few indications of the extent of change we are talking about here!]



Thatta boy. It wasn't that hard was it? [No]



Sounds nice, but doesn't answer the question.
Why is your interpretation correct, and others wrong? [Physical only science has only one part of the equation! We could not expect it to arrive at an answer regarding the big picture, and dates, and orgins.]
I wanna see some justification.

.

 

[dad]

So you cannot demonstrate that the image posted is not the correct interpretation? [It is a subject in itself, and of little interest probably to any but christians, or believers. If you accept the premise of the thread here, and others, we could spend time on explaining what actually was meant there, but it is a big subject. So not "cannot" as much as will not now]



God-O-Gaps is what happens when things previously though to be supernatural or supernatural in origin are demonstrated to have be natural or have natural orgins. Volacanos and tornadoes and eclipses etc.
Which is exactly what you're proposing. Science cannot currently explain something, therefore it must be supernatural and can never be explained. [It can be explained, never, however merely with physical only explanations. Good and bad spiritual forces even now are at work in the world, and can influence these things. Behind the scenes things are at work you cannot see. Physical science can provide explanations for some things, but can not detect how also things can be affected by the spiritual. To say all these things are always only physical is to miss a lot!]

Known effects you say? Like what? [Healings, ressurection, answered prayers, esp, ghosts, demonic influence, angels, fulfilled prophesy, medicine men, etc, etc. etc.]



What are you talking about? Because of science we know why events previously thought to be supernatural occur. Seems like pretty good 'detection'. [What a scream. Pretty good detection that does not even detect a spirit world? That does not detect it's past or future influences?
Pretty good detection that thinks physical present decay etc was always the same? The only thing box science is good at detecting is the box!][/QUOTE].

 

[Douglaangu v2.0]

No. Trying to have solid evidence of something not solid, is not strike one, it's batty. Especially when you disregard the Homerun of Jesus, and all the other innings, where the physical only strikes out!

Don't be[font=&quot] [/font]facetious[font=&quot] [/font], what I meant was evidence that stands up to investigation.
Which you have no provided, and I suspect you do not have.

You're catching on!. It is only thought unnatral to those of the box unable to see it or touch it!

So you're agreeing with me that the supernatual is only refered to as such because it is currently outside the realms of science?

So my ideas are almost as unstable as science? I'm glad you said, 'almost'!

I never said almost. I said 'no more stable'. Which means they are more unstable.
You admited yourself that your interpretation could be wrong.

"Prove Me now herewith, saith the Lord..." And millions have. Don't think that the physical only science of the box is the grand exalted judge that all things must fit into!

This had nothing to do with what I said.

The speed of light, when in a complete spiritual/physical state is limitless.

So I'm guessing the implications of this 'infinite speed' are negated as well?
(Isn't the heat from the sun caused by light emited from it impacting and releasing engery?)

Energy is not limited as it is here either. Mass is not physical only either. These are a few indications of the extent of change we are talking about here!

Again, speculation and posturing.
"Wheres the beef?"

Physical only science has only one part of the equation! We could not expect it to arrive at an answer regarding the big picture, and dates, and orgins.

But that wasn't what I was talking about.
Why is your interpretation of the layout of the universe as detailed in the bible, correct when others are not?
Nothing to do with science.

 

[Physics_guy]

This is arguably the dumbest thread in existence. I think that the existence of "dad" is enough to negate any possibility of an Intelligent designer.

 

[Douglaangu v2.0]

t is a subject in itself, and of little interest probably to any but christians, or believers. If you accept the premise of the thread here, and others, we could spend time on explaining what actually was meant there, but it is a big subject. So not "cannot" as much as will not now

I can accept that.
But I do expect you to give some justification of why YOU are correct.

It can be explained, never, however merely with physical only explanations.
Good and bad spiritual forces even now are at work in the world, and can influence these things.
Behind the scenes things are at work you cannot see. Physical science can provide explanations for some things, but can not detect how also things can be affected by the spiritual. To say all these things are always only physical is to miss a lot!

Nice handwaving, but it doesn't work.
Can you say, with 100% certainty that the 'supernatural' will never be explained by physical means?

People once thought that epilepsy was caused by demons.
IOW, it was thought to be supernatural. Now we know better, that it is the result of increased electrical activity in the brain 'arc' between hemispheres and causing a 'cascade'.
This is an example of the 'supernatural' becoming natural.

Healings, ressurection, answered prayers, esp, ghosts, demonic influence, angels, fulfilled prophesy, medicine men, etc, etc. etc.

Well done. Prove these and you'll get a cool million from James Randi.
http://www.randi.org/research/

What a scream. Pretty good detection that does not even detect a spirit world? That does not detect it's past or future influences?
Pretty good detection that thinks physical present decay etc was always the same? The only thing box science is good at detecting is the box!

Then what do you suggest?

 

[Douglaangu v2.0]

This is arguably the dumbest thread in existence. I think that the existence of "dad" is enough to negate any possibility of an Intelligent designer.

I'm worried.

What if we approch an 'idiocy event horizon' from which there is no return?

 

[dad]

Don't befacetious, what I meant was evidence that stands up to investigation.[Very funny, how can the keystone cops of box science be expected to investigate anything but the box?]
Which you have no provided, and I suspect you do not have.



So you're agreeing with me that the supernatual is only refered to as such because it is currently outside the realms of science? [Currently, until they are hip to the spirit. Which sounds like it may be a while for some!]



I never said almost. I said 'no more stable'. [OK, so my ideas were so bad they were no more stable than modern science!] Which means they are more unstable.
You admited yourself that your interpretation could be wrong. [In the sense of taking the split all the way out to the flood, yes. Not in knowing there is a spirit world.]



This had nothing to do with what I said. [Proving God is a well known test]


So I'm guessing the implications of this 'infinite speed' are negated as well?
(Isn't the heat from the sun caused by light emited from it impacting and releasing engery?) [We won't need any heat from the sun any more. How things have to work in this physical only universe we see is great, but we cannot dream of limiting merged forever realities with pitiful, puny, present processes]


Again, speculation and posturing.
"Wheres the beef?" [The bible indicates that travel can trancend time and space. Spirit 'mass' has different properties, such as Jesus suddenly appearing, going through walls, disappearing, etc. Yet He still cooked and ate fish. Light and heat from the sun will no longer be needed. The light that reached us from distant stars could not have been our physical universe present light, as time would forbib that, it is too slow. Energy also will work different. We will not have to eat, but could if we wish. The sun will never burn out, as it is forever, so energy must work differently. etc]


But that wasn't what I was talking about.
Why is your interpretation of the layout of the universe as detailed in the bible, correct when others are not?
Nothing to do with science. [In the sense that science has nothing to do with God, you are right. The point is, physical only science cannot be superimposed on a spirit affected world past, to the ommision of people's beliefs in a creator with any authority now. It cannot prove wrong the split, even when we understand it to have gone on till flood time. So don't teach children it can.]

.

 

[dad]

This is arguably the dumbest thread in existence. I think that the existence of "dad" is enough to negate any possibility of an Intelligent designer.

Glad you are seemingly somewhat baffled. I guess I'm like the 'spirit/physics guy'!

 

[dad]

I'm worried.

What if we approch an 'idiocy event horizon' from which there is no return?

Don't worry about it, I'm here for you! The horizons of the boz are history!

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

let me sum it up for everyone:

dad: AHA! my RANDOM GUESS MAKES PERFECT SENSE IF YOU SUSPEND ALL PHYSICAL LAWS!! HAHA THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOR THOSE EVIL EVOS!

everyone with a working brain: you're an idiot

dad: JESUS LOVES ME MORE THAN PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME

other christians: shut up, dad

dad: I AM INFALLABLE AND ONLY I CAN INTERPRET SCRIPTURE CORRECTLY AND I AM ABOVE THE COLLECTED WORKS OF ALL SCIENTISTS OF ALL TIME EVEN THE CHRISTIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE ALLMIGHT DAD

everyone else: time to move on... this thread is pointless and will not go anywhere

 

[MuAndNu]

This is arguably the dumbest thread in existence. I think that the existence of "dad" is enough to negate any possibility of an Intelligent designer.

One thing's for sure, Dad's not dumb. He's somehow managed to get a lot of smart people to take him seriously enough to keep arguing with him, despite the evident fact that it's not going to do a speck of good.

 

[Physics_guy]

One thing's for sure, Dad's not dumb. He's somehow managed to get a lot of smart people to take him seriously enough to keep arguing with him, despite the evident fact that it's not going to do a speck of good.

I'm pretty sure they are just bored.

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

yeah sometimes it takes a while for new idiocy to come up, so you post wherever there's something new

 

[Physics_guy]

Not that I think this will do any good, but I'm bored as well, so why not:

Glad you are seemingly somewhat baffled. I guess I'm like the 'spirit/physics guy'!

Hey "dad," didn't you say that the "spirit" world and the "physical" world split when Adam sinned? So what exactly held this "vapor canopy" in place for the couple thousand odd years between Adam and Noah?

 

[dad]

I can accept that.
But I do expect you to give some justification of why YOU are correct. [I haven't stated a position on the firmament thing have I? So how could I be correct or not?]



Nice handwaving, but it doesn't work.
Can you say, with 100% certainty that the 'supernatural' will never be explained by physical means? [Of course, not really. Some bits thought supertisiously to be , maybe. But as for God, angels, heaven, and all the juicy stuff, no way, Hosea]

People once thought that epilepsy was caused by demons. [I still believe people can get possesed, or even just bothered or harrassed by demons, if they do not have His protection]
IOW, it was thought to be supernatural. Now we know better, that it is the result of increased electrical activity in the brain 'arc' between hemispheres and causing a 'cascade'.
This is an example of the 'supernatural' becoming natural. [In some cases, what do you think this 'electrical' activty is? I have seen possesed people, and even seen one exorcised]



Well done. Prove these and you'll get a cool million from James Randi.
http://www.randi.org/research/ [Interesting. I might look into the guy some day, and see if I can perceive where he is really coming from]



Then what do you suggest? [I suggest getting saved by asking Jesus into your heart. When we are born again, we can start to see the world through new eyes. Man, on his own can never do it]

.

 

[dad]

Not that I think this will do any good, but I'm bored as well, so why not:



Hey "dad," didn't you say that the "spirit" world and the "physical" world split when Adam sinned? So what exactly held this "vapor canopy" in place for the couple thousand odd years between Adam and Noah?

Excellent. I'm glad some people are paying attention. Under this new idea in this thread, we have the split taking time to completely split. Kind of a slow burn. In other words, it now would not have split until the flood time. Perhaps some things were affected right away, others took more time?

 

[dad]

One thing's for sure, Dad's not dumb. He's somehow managed to get a lot of smart people to take him seriously enough to keep arguing with him, despite the evident fact that it's not going to do a speck of good.

. I like the choice of words here.

 

[Douglaangu v2.0]

Very funny, how can the keystone cops of box science be expected to investigate anything but the box?

Hold still, you're dodging again.

Currently

Good boy, thats just what I wanted to hear.

OK, so my ideas were so bad they were no more stable than modern science!

More to the point, there's no way to falsify your ideas.
The moment something 'supernatural' is revealed to be a normal process or whatever, you can just claim there's still more, or we don't know enough or somesuch excuse.

Proving God is a well known test

I thought that you couldnt prove god, and that you had to accept his existance on faith alone? Or is that just an 'interpretation'?

We won't need any heat from the sun any more. How things have to work in this physical only universe we see is great, but we cannot dream of limiting merged forever realities with pitiful, puny, present processes

I'm not talking about 'needing' the heat.
I'm talking about the massive amount of energy that would be released when particals moving at an infinite speed impact.
Unless of course you're going to say it doesn't matter, and we'll all live in a magicworld without consequences and without evidence or justification or basis in reality.
A fantasty land if you will.

The bible indicates that travel can trancend time and space. Spirit 'mass' has different properties, such as Jesus suddenly appearing, going through walls, disappearing, etc. Yet He still cooked and ate fish. Light and heat from the sun will no longer be needed. The light that reached us from distant stars could not have been our physical universe present light, as time would forbib that, it is too slow. Energy also will work different. We will not have to eat, but could if we wish. The sun will never burn out, as it is forever, so energy must work differently. etc

I gottacha.

Everything you've been talking about is you trying to rationalise the inconsistances that the your biblical interpretation has with reality.
"The earth is 6000 years old, but there are stars more and 6000 light years away, therefore lightspeed must have been infinite before the 'split"
"My biblical endtimes fantasy violates known laws of physics therefore the laws must be wrong and ignorable"

In the sense that science has nothing to do with God, you are right. The point is, physical only science cannot be superimposed on a spirit affected world past, to the ommision of people's beliefs in a creator with any authority now. It cannot prove wrong the split, even when we understand it to have gone on till flood time. So don't teach children it can.

You STILL didn't answer the question.
Why is your interpretation of the layout of the universe as detailed in the bible, correct when others are not?Hell, I'll even rephrase it for you.

Why is your interpretation of the bibles description of the universe correct, when others are not?