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Featured Was King David Saved While He Committed His Sins of Adultery and Murder?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jason0047, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. Yes.

    50.0%
  2. No.

    21.7%
  3. I don't know.

    11.7%
  4. Other (Please explain).

    16.7%
  1. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    But I already showed you that God deals with us in real time by the story of Jonah.

    Also, 2 Chronicles 7:14 says,
    "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

    Sin is not forgiven to his people unless they humble themselves, pray, seek his face, turn from their wicked ways.

    A person cannot be saved if they unforgiven sin standing between them and God.
     
  2. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    Psalms 23:6 should be isolated as the only verse in our Bible. It should be read in light of other verses. Before the temple was built, there was a tent of worship, i.e. the "Tabernacle of David" (Isaiah 16:5) (Amos 9:11) (Acts of the Apostles 15:16). It seems more like here that David was referring to how he desired to dwell in God's house as in reference to this place of worship forever instead of some spiritual house up in Heaven (that he was not actually in yet).
     
  3. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    The point is that if we do not seek forgiveness, we are not saved. The time when we are in grievous unrepentant sin, we are not saved but we abide in spiritual death. We need to confess in order to be forgiven again and get salvation back.
     
  4. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    So nobody is actually saved or lost? They have to die to find out?
     
  5. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    It is written,

    5 "Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
    6 For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house." (Micah 7:5-6).

    Also, the forum rules state we are not to address the poster or the individual, but we are to stick to the topic with Scripture.

    In addition, would you believe me if I told you about my life? Well, trust needs to be earned. I confide in those who believe the Word of God as I do. Furthermore, it does not matter if most of the whole world was not living correctly. God's Word is still the standard and the standard is not my life alone. God destroyed an entire world with a global flood except for eight people. We walk by faith and not by sight. I am not above God's Word in what it says anymore than you are. If the Bible tells me to be ye holy, that is something I have to accept (Whether I like it or not).
     
  6. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    The Bible’s teaching that serious sin is separation from GOD,

    "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

    "Now we know that God hears not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and does his will, him he hears." (John 9:31).

    [God said to Adam,]
    "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:17).

    [Eve said to the serpent,]
    "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (Genesis 3:3).

    And the serpent said unto the woman,
    "Ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

    "...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." (Genesis 3:6-7).

    "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." (Romans 5:12).

    "For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23).

    “...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
    (Matthew 5:22).

    28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
    29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
    30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:28-30).

    “But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.” (Proverbs 6:32).

    “But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:15).

    “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)

    Important Note: If you were to look at 1 Thessalonians 4:3 you would learn that the will of God (i.e. the Father) is to be holy or it is our sanctification; And Hebrews 12:14 says, without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

    “22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
    23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV).

    “26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
    27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
    (Matthew 7:26-27).

    “15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
    17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
    18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

    "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26).

    "he that commits sin is of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

    "everyone who does evil hates the light." (John 3:20).

    "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

    6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:6-7).

    "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4).

    "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15).

    "He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now." (1 John 2:9).

    "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

    41 "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
    42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." (Matthew 13:41-43 ESV).

    “For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37).

    "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

    3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
    4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

    "...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
    (James 4:6).

    21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
    22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off." (Romans 11:21-22).

    16 "There is a sin unto death..."
    17 "...and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:16-17).

    "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8).

    19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

    5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affe
    ction, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
    6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
    7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." (Colossians 3:5-7).

    5 “...God;
    6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
    12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law” (Romans 2:5-12).

    “But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”
    (Ezekiel 18:24).

    9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. “ (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

    “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).

    "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

    “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).
     
  7. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    It should be because the Bible clearly talks about how one grievous sin can separate us from God.
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    We live in time and God has perfected timing and He controls timing.
    But God lives outside of time and does not experience it.
    God is there listening to your prayer, and has already answered
    it from before you were born.

    I know you can find scores of passages suggesting God is waiting for you before He responds. But it's time to give up your control over God.

    But look at these passages explaining God already has heard yesterday,
    what you are going to pray tomorrow.

    Mark 11:24
    Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer,
    believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

    Isaiah 65:24
    Before they call I will answer;
    while they are yet speaking I will hear.

    Matthew 6
    7 And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans,
    for they think that by their many words they will be heard.
    8 Do not be like them, for your Father
    knows what you need before you ask Him.

    Matthew 6:32
    For the pagans strive after all these things,
    and your Heavenly Father knows that you need them.

    Luke 12:30
    For the nations of the world strive after all these things,
    and your Father knows that you need them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    We are already separated from God with the tiniest sin.
    Our task is to bridge the divide with Faith.
    The wages of sin is death.
    That includes one moment of not praising God.
     
  10. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I've remarried. I'm no better than them.
    The wages of any tiny sin, is death.
     
  11. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    I'm concerned about my own relationship with God and those around me and I think it would be irresponsible to use David's mistakes as a license to sin but I'm not so concerned about the state of his salvation during his dark moments.
     
  12. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship,
    so that men are without excuse.

    Job 12:7
    But ask the animals, and they will instruct you;
    ask the birds of the air, and they will tell you.

    Psalm 19:1
    The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skies proclaim the work of His hands.

    Jeremiah 51:15
    He made the earth by His power; He established the world by His wisdom
    and stretched out the heavens by His understanding.
     
  13. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The wages of any sin, is death.
    But thanks for the notice.
     
  14. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    I am sorry we disagree. I see this as the ultimate test question. If a person believes King David was saved in his sins of adultery and murder, then they are telling other believers that they can be like a King David and be saved while committing adultery and murder. It is wrong. David had to confess of his sins to be forgiven of them. Just read Psalms 51 and you can see that fact for yourself. To justify evil for even an hour or five seconds is the same as justifying evil for 5 years. There is no statute of time for making a crime, sin, or evil okay with God. The Bible and real life confirms this. Adam, Ananais, Sapphira, Simon, all committed just one sin and they died spiritually by that one sin. One grievous sin is all it took. Was there mercy for Adam and Simon? Yes. But not for Ananais and Sapphira. In fact, those who worship the beast in the future never even had their names written in the book of life. So the sin of worshiping the beast is so bad to God, that it separated them from Him before the creation. So yes. One sin. That's all it takes. To say so otherwise is to justify sin.

    Real world example? Can you not honestly think of certain sins that are so bad and so horrible that it would deserve a separation in a relationship?
     
  15. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    You should be because if it is true (and it is) that David was unsaved in his sins of adultery and murder, your attempt to hide from that truth is not going to help you and others, it is only going to make that problem worse. In other words, it would be like not listening to the guy who said not to swim in certain waters that are shark infested. Your lack of not believing him could be a major problem for you. In other words, hiding from the truth is never a good thing.
     
  16. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    This is simply not true. Not all sin is the same. Please show me a place in the Bible where God condemns us for disobeying Christ's command to "Rejoice when we are persecuted" as per Matthew 5.
     
  17. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus Well-Known Member

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    King David is saved because he put his trust in God.
    John 3:16
     
  18. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    1 Timothy 5 talks about how the widow that lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. This means she is spiritually dead while she is physically alive. Does this mean she is forever lost? No. She can repent. God deals with people in real time. In the parable of the prodigal son we learn that when the son came home and repented to his father, he was said to be dead and is alive again. The Parable is speaking in spiritual terms. The son was dead spiritually when he was living a prodigal life of sin, and when he came back home and repented, he became spiritually alive again. He was lost and he became found. This parable is just one parable in a series of 3 parables that all talk about repentance (seeking forgiveness with God).
     
  19. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    To truly believe in Jesus (God) one has to also believe in His teachings, too. Otherwise we are believing in a Jesus of our own imagining that is not in Scripture. Jesus's teachings are a part of WHO He is. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. Are you saying that people who do not love Jesus will be in His Kingdom?

    Jesus taught us that sin can separate us from God (See Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62).

    Paul says if any man does not consent (does not agree) with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

    James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
     
  20. Hieronymus

    Hieronymus Well-Known Member

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    Trusting God is loving God.
    No need to put yourself under the Law, which we cannot keep anyway.
    Sure, we try, and fail, and we're sorry after the fact, which is based on the Law.
    We can not earn our salvation. God is our righteousness. That's his Gift of Grace.
     
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