Was God's Kingdom already established in 70 AD ? - Preterism views

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna,
The first Adam was made a living soul -in a body of flesh.
The last Adam was a Life Giving Spirit -who is come in a body of flesh.
Adam was made, the Spirit of Christ existed from all eternity as YHWH of hosts, second Person who is come in fully human being flesh of the New Creation Man.
The Scripture does not say that Jesus was "made" a Life Giving Spirit and it does not say that He was 'made' 'any thing' after His resurrection -you are preterizing the passage, and it does not say that.

furthermore: YHWH is Spirit, and He exists in three Persons;
Adam is spirit, and He exists in billions of persons.
Spirit is what YHWH is; and before Him there was no God "made' neither shall there be after Him.
So the Last Adam was not made a created Spirit at any time in His incarnation or after it; as He is the Life Giving Spirit in human flesh.

When Jesus Christ breathed on the disciples after His resurrection, they were at that moment born of His Life Giving Spirit, the 'river of Life' from the throne of God above, that Ezekiel saw as a river as a symbol of the Life Giving Spirit of Christ that became so wide in the beginning of the fifth thousand years since the beginning of creation that a man could not cross over; and John saw as a river of life proceeding from the throne above, in the New Jerusalem.

When He ascended and received the glory of the PResence indwelling as the Last Adam, as our Firstborn (which was what Adam lost at the fall), of the indwelling Presence of the glory of the Father, He sent that glory in a measure to dwell in the born again spiritually, Believers, on the Day of Pentecost; but as a measure, only, a down payment, of the full measure of glory that we shall receive in our regenerated bodies of adoption.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Is that all yeshuasavedme, just a 1000 years. What happens after that, does He then stop reigning in this non scripturaul "earthly kingdom"?

If there are no wicked left then Isaiah did not know what he was talking about in Isaiah 65:20

" No more shall an infant from there [live but a few] days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner [being] one hundred years old shall be accursed.

When Jesus told John He did not understand when he said that quickly would be more then 2000 years and that evil people will be around the outside of the city. But you said, there will not be one wicked one left in the entire earth when Jesus comes. Who shall we believe then you or Jesus and Isaiah?

Rev.22: 12 " And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to give to every one according to his work.13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, [the] Beginning and [the] End, the First and the Last."14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.15 But outside [are] dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. *

Now would you explain to us people who believe in spiritual fulfillment what kind of city did the first century saints come to here in Hebrews 12:22

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [who are] registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

And please explain why the scripture says: to the spirits of just men made perfect ?

If what you say is so about this regenerated physical body doctrine which is totally false according to scripture, how is it so in 1 Cor.15 that says first is the natural then the spiritual.

You view is first is natural, then spiritual, then physically regenerated. Show us where it says that the regenerated is physical?


1 Cor.15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. [The body] is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam [became] a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man [was] of the earth, [made] of dust; the second Man [is] the Lord from heaven. 48 As [was] the [man] of dust, so also [are] those [who are made] of dust; and as [is] the heavenly [Man,] so also [are] those [who are] heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the [man] of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly [Man.] 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

His kingdom is coming to this earth -and preterism is a lie, Hidden Manna, that denies that fact of Scripture:
He taught us to pray; "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven" -and it will be done, when He returns as Son of Man to reign for the Sabbath Rest of Peace in this earth at last, when the head of the serpent is crushed and all evil authority is put down and removed from this earth and He restores all things.


I have explained these things to you and here is the merry go round again! the Scriptures teach them, but you get your understanding from men's books who teach preterism, which is a heresy.

After the thousand years, Satan is loosed and the children of the Blessed of the LORD who populated the earth for its Sabbath Rest of the thousand are tempted, to believe the lies of the devil, who tries to overthrow the throne of the LORD on earth and in heaven.
Some of those children -and grandchildren and so on- of those who entered the millennial reign as born again in Spirit but not regenerated in body to marry and multiply and fill the earth will believe the lies of the devil and rebel against the LORD and His city of Saints below and above.
At that time, the entire creation's elements will be melted in a great fire, that begins with a great noise, as the entire creation's elements are burned and regenerated, and all the wicked who had not previously been judged and cast into the everlasting fire (at the end of the thousand years, as goats and tares) will be judged and cast into the lake of fire -out! in the outer darkness! -away from the Light that lights every man that comes into the world, in the blackness of darkness forever, with no hope for the "worm" to die and be regenerated as a son of God ever again!

The entire creation, the heavens and the earth, will be regenerated and the Lord Jesus Christ's human house for the Father's glory to indwell, that He is the Chief foundation Stone of, in His New Creation body of flesh, will be finished, and capped with the capstone -and the glory of God will fill His house, which is the New Jerusalem and that New Jerusalem is the Holy of Holies of the temple of YHWH, which is God and the Lamb forever.

The earth will be filled with human sons of God, the 'place' for the Father to dwell in, and there will be no veil separating the earth from the heaven, for there will be no more sin and all evil will be cast into the lake of fire forever.

As to being sown, the body is sown in the dust from which it came, raised in regeneration of its elements as its own body of human flesh, elementally regenerated in the New Man's image!
The spiritual body is the human body of the incarnation of the LORD Jesus Christ, the body without sin and immortal forever.

In that body He tasted the death of spiritual separation from the Father while He hung on the cross. But when He departed from that body, which body is our everliving Mercy Seat of the solid gold that covers our New Man, That body could not decay, for it was not of Adam and had no sin in it and no corruption could touch it -not in the entire three nights and three days while He was out of His prepared body could decay begin in that New Creation body.

If He had not returned and taken that body up again and did not dwell in it, that body would still be undecayed: if it had been cut into a billion pieces, not one Molecule of that body would be decayed, still.

His body is the Firstborn of the New Spiritual Man, and in that body of flesh He is coming soon, to take His great power and reign over His purchased possession.
The children of the Blessed of the LORD who die as sinners, being a hundred years old are not the seed of the "wicked" one -a few of them may become so at theend of the thousand years for that brief time of the trying of the hearts of those untested multiplied in Adam persons, born of the redeemed of the LORD who enter the millennial reign.

 

[notswift]

The Resurrection of Christ: Physical or Non-physical?
This discussion opens a “can of worms” doctrinally speaking, as this doctrine lies at the very core of the Christian faith, supposedly - according to Creedalists and traditionists anyway. “If you deny the PHYSICAL resurrection of Christ” (they say, authoritatively) “you deny the Christian faith, and are no more than a heretic or worse”. SO...this idea that Christ Jesus rose from the grave PHYSICALLY (which I subscribed to myself, for many years) must be examined and critiqued carefully and with the utmost care taken to evaluate the language, inferences and context associated with all texts relevant to this event

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i wonder if maybe the importance of holding to a physical resurrection was of its simplicity... a very difficult concept made simple for simpletons like me ... like Luke, i can believe wat i can see... i can believe wat i can somewhat comprehend.. and, thus, be of good courage and hope in Christ.

One of the most popular passages of Scripture associated with this subject is 1Corinthians 15. Paul goes engages in a lengthy homily on the subject of the resurrection, and in actual fact - at no point in this passage does he specify that CHRIST’S resurrection was, indeed, PHYSICAL. In fact, he does the opposite. Without going through the passage verse by verse, suffice it to say that Paul clearly states (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) that Christ was raised a SPIRIT being.

i was thinking that what was being described was a spiritual body instead of a natural body... the key to my pee brain was the word 'body'.

45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual .47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. (1Cor. 15:45-50)

... so, if the first body was made of dust and the second body is made of heaven ... hmmm... then i agree... it would be proper for my soul to discard this stinky ol dusty body for the new and improved spiritual body... cool! i think uve cleared this up a bit for me... thanks

In the context, then, of Paul’s homily on the resurrection concept, he clearly states (above, in v.45) that Christ Jesus was made a “life-giving SPIRIT”. The argument that Christ ascended into heaven in bodily, physical form, then, is totally defeated by this statement. Paul’s subsequent statements, as highlighted above, further emphasize and reiterate the point that physical bodies ARE NOT PERMITTED entrance into God’s Presence in heaven. Those who dwell with God in the heavenlies have spirit forms, NOT physical bodies.

... ! and, let us not forget that we must be clothed in Christ's righteousness, too, before we present ourselves in our new and improved, sinless spirit bodies.

Christ Jesus Himself made this very clear in His defense of the resurrection to the Sadducees, in Matt. 22:30, “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven .” There is no marrying or giving in marriage in “the resurrection” (the place to which the saints were resurrected, in the First Century - the heavenly Promised Land) because those who participate in it and dwell in heaven eternally ARE LIKE THE ANGELS OF GOD IN HEAVEN. They do not PROCREATE, because they are NON-PHYSICAL SPIRIT BEINGS, like the angels. We know the angels are non-physical spirit beings through the clear statements of many texts such as Heb. 1:7, “And of the angels He says: “ Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.”

now, this is a hard concept to understand... i thought we didnt do that in Heaven for all of our desires would be found satisfied in the presence of
God.

Christ’s tomb was empty because the angels “spirited” His physical, pre-death body away (the physical body He possessed during His earthly ministry). NO-ONE witnessed Christ walking out of the tomb and handled him physically to verify that at the moment of his exiting the tomb He possessed His previous, physical body. In actual fact, Christ rose from “the dead” (the place of the dead - Sheol) as a Living Being, in SPIRIT form. He could assume any appearance He chose, which is why the disciples on the road to Emmaus didn’t immediately recognize Him as He conversed with them, and why when they DID recognize Him, He immediately VANISHED OUT OF THEIR SIGHT (as SPIRIT BEINGS are capable to do, but which action PHYSICAL BEINGS are not capable of).

hmmm... this is almost reading like a tim lahay novel... lol... its good!, but, i was kinda thinking that since Jesus is God incarnate that He could do without the angels assistance... besides, if He could walk through walls with His spirit body than why couldnt he walk through a rock... ... well... actually, since God is God, wouldn't He do as He pleased?

13 Now behold, two of them were traveling that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was seven miles from Jerusalem. 14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened. 15 So it was, while they conversed and reasoned, that Jesus Himself drew near and went with them. 16 But their eyes were restrained, so that they did not know Him ... 30 Now it came to pass, as He sat at the table with them, that He took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight. 32 And they said to one another, “Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?” 33 So they rose up that very hour and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together, 34 saying, “The Lord is risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!” 35 And they told about the things that had happened on the road, and how He was known to them in the breaking of bread.

It COULD be argued that this instance of His post-resurrection appearances to His disciples was evidence of God’s hand upon THEM, in blinding them to Christ’s true identity until a specific moment in their interactions. In other words, some might argue that this anecdote doesn’t speak directly to Christ’s post-resurrection form, but to His disciples’ perceptions, as governed by God. But let us consider other texts in conjunction with the one above, to see if there is further clarification elsewhere

... drama! is one of the beautiful qualities of our Lord. dismay is one of our typical qualities... what a wonderful encouragement this story is to me when i find myself wandering down the road of life with my spirit hanging low and clouds of confusion and doubt hanging above... its just then! at moments like this that the Lord has been faithful to intercede and reveal His presence to me in His special ways... that bit of scripture is always an encouragement to me.. thanks

40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God , even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead (Acts 10:40,41)

This Jesus who was raised from the dead was an interesting Being. He was not readily visible to just anyone alive in those days. Rather, it was necessary to SHOW Him to people (i.e. to MANIFEST Him to people). Spirit beings have always had the capacity to take on physical form for brief periods of time, MANIFESTING themselves in physical form for various reasons. We see this in God’s appearance to Abraham, where He appeared to him in the form of three men and actually LUNCHED with Abraham. We see the angel physically WRESTLING with Jacob in Genesis also, and other instances of spirit beings taking on physical characteristics and appearance for a time, to accomplish a specific purpose. I believe the bulk of the Scriptural evidence shows that Christ Jesus ALSO had this type of form.

interesting... i had never thought of the possibility that God was all three who met with Abe...hmm... interesting.. but, nevertheless, i agree.. it is God and God only who has the power of creation... so, whether He created two or three angelic bodies to meet Abe is moot... just, to me, an interesting model to consider that all three were actually one... kinda like the Holy Trinity... interesting

The one text most commonly used to attempt to refute the idea that Christ’s resurrection was strictly spiritual is His appearance to Thomas and His words to Him, found in Luke 24:39, “Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” Christ Jesus SEEMS to be stating that He is NOT a “resurrected spirit being” here. But if we consider His actual words carefully, it becomes evident that He is inferring, or implying, that He is not a disembodied “ghost” or “deceiving spirit”, but that He WAS, in fact, the risen Lord. The whole point of these manifestations of Himself, physically, to His followers, was to confirm that His PERSON was raised from Sheol, and His spirit was NOT still imprisoned, awaiting the resurrection, like their forefathers.

Christ was concerned that His followers understand that the Person with whom they were interacting was HIM, and not just a phantom or spectre, tricking them into thinking that He had risen. A mere “spirit” of a departed person does not manifest physical qualities (not until it is resurrected and glorified, anyway) but a resurrected SPIRIT BEING (a person who has experienced resurrection) and has taken on a “heavenly form”, is essentially spirit in essence, and yet has the capacity to manifest himself physically, at will.

... this model sort of doesnt work scriptually for me, only in the inference that the devil, who is spirit, would be able to manifest himself physcially at will.. which, of course, would mean that the devil could have posed as the risen Christ... no? .. isn't it God, and God alone who has the power of creation? .. isn't this the point Jesus is trying to make by stating that spirits have no flesh? ... i wonder how the disciples understood that.. ive never seen a ghost, but, apparently, they had... wow... scarey thought!!

If Christ possessed the IDENTICAL physical body He had on the cross and before, during His earthly ministry, He would NOT have been able to pass through closed, locked doors and materialize in front of His disciples (John 20:19ff.), nor could He dematerialize in front of their eyes (like He did with the disciples on their way to Emmaus).

If Christ possessed the very same physical body that went INTO the tomb, it would not have been necessary for God to MAKE HIM VISIBLE to select witnesses to His resurrection (per the statements in Acts 10, above).[/QUOTE

... exactly to the point! ... one would think that His natural body would not be able to do the same things that His spiritual body could do... like not bleed to death with the holes still in His hands, feet and side... hmmm... but, of course, we are talking about Jesus who walked on the water in His natural body, and also, this same Jesus who would easily evade crowds of angry men trying to lay their hands on Him... Jesus! ...there is something about that name ] Godspeed! jef

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Is that all yeshuasavedme, just a 1000 years. What happens after that, does He then stop reigning in this non scripturaul "earthly kingdom"?

If there are no wicked left then Isaiah did not know what he was talking about in Isaiah 65:20

" No more shall an infant from there [live but a few] days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner [being] one hundred years old shall be accursed.

When Jesus told John He did not understand when he said that quickly would be more then 2000 years and that evil people will be around the outside of the city. But you said, there will not be one wicked one left in the entire earth when Jesus comes. Who shall we believe then you or Jesus and Isaiah?

Rev.22: 12 " And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to give to every one according to his work.13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, [the] Beginning and [the] End, the First and the Last."14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.15 But outside [are] dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. *

Now would you explain to us people who believe in spiritual fulfillment what kind of city did the first century saints come to here in Hebrews 12:22

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [who are] registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

And please explain why the scripture says: to the spirits of just men made perfect ?

If what you say is so about this regenerated physical body doctrine which is totally false according to scripture, how is it so in 1 Cor.15 that says first is the natural then the spiritual.

You view is first is natural, then spiritual, then physically regenerated. Show us where it says that the regenerated is physical?


1 Cor.15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. [The body] is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam [became] a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man [was] of the earth, [made] of dust; the second Man [is] the Lord from heaven. 48 As [was] the [man] of dust, so also [are] those [who are made] of dust; and as [is] the heavenly [Man,] so also [are] those [who are] heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the [man] of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly [Man.] 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

His kingdom is coming to this earth -and preterism is a lie, Hidden Manna, that denies that fact of Scripture:
He taught us to pray; "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven" -and it will be done, when He returns as Son of Man to reign for the Sabbath Rest of Peace in this earth at last, when the head of the serpent is crushed and all evil authority is put down and removed from this earth and He restores all things.


I have explained these things to you and here is the merry go round again! the Scriptures teach them, but you get your understanding from men's books who teach preterism, which is a heresy.

After the thousand years, Satan is loosed and the children of the Blessed of the LORD who populated the earth for its Sabbath Rest of the thousand are tempted, to believe the lies of the devil, who tries to overthrow the throne of the LORD on earth and in heaven.
Some of those children -and grandchildren and so on- of those who entered the millennial reign as born again in Spirit but not regenerated in body to marry and multiply and fill the earth will believe the lies of the devil and rebel against the LORD and His city of Saints below and above.
At that time, the entire creation's elements will be melted in a great fire, that begins with a great noise, as the entire creation's elements are burned and regenerated, and all the wicked who had not previously been judged and cast into the everlasting fire (at the end of the thousand years, as goats and tares) will be judged and cast into the lake of fire -out! in the outer darkness! -away from the Light that lights every man that comes into the world, in the blackness of darkness forever, with no hope for the "worm" to die and be regenerated as a son of God ever again!

The entire creation, the heavens and the earth, will be regenerated and the Lord Jesus Christ's human house for the Father's glory to indwell, that He is the Chief foundation Stone of, in His New Creation body of flesh, will be finished, and capped with the capstone -and the glory of God will fill His house, which is the New Jerusalem and that New Jerusalem is the Holy of Holies of the temple of YHWH, which is God and the Lamb forever.

The earth will be filled with human sons of God, the 'place' for the Father to dwell in, and there will be no veil separating the earth from the heaven, for there will be no more sin and all evil will be cast into the lake of fire forever.

As to being sown, the body is sown in the dust from which it came, raised in regeneration of its elements as its own body of human flesh, elementally regenerated in the New Man's image!
The spiritual body is the human body of the incarnation of the LORD Jesus Christ, the body without sin and immortal forever.

In that body He tasted the death of spiritual separation from the Father while He hung on the cross. But when He departed from that body, which body is our everliving Mercy Seat of the solid gold that covers our New Man, That body could not decay, for it was not of Adam and had no sin in it and no corruption could touch it -not in the entire three nights and three days while He was out of His prepared body could decay begin in that New Creation body.

If He had not returned and taken that body up again and did not dwell in it, that body would still be undecayed: if it had been cut into a billion pieces, not one Molecule of that body would be decayed, still.

His body is the Firstborn of the New Spiritual Man, and in that body of flesh He is coming soon, to take His great power and reign over His purchased possession.
The children of the Blessed of the LORD who die as sinners, being a hundred years old are not the seed of the "wicked" one -a few of them may become so at theend of the thousand years for that brief time of the trying of the hearts of those untested multiplied in Adam persons, born of the redeemed of the LORD who enter the millennial reign.

Jesus said that He will cleanse the earth of all things that offend when He comes in His glory to reign for the thousand years -and all tares will be cast into the everlasting fire, and soon, He said through David, in Psalm 37, three thousand years ago, the wicked will not be, in this earth, and the meek shall inherit the earth and the wicked will not be found by diligent search -just like at the flood of Noah, Jesus says, in Matthew 24, when the flood came and took them all away, this one 'generation' of the wicked sons of wrath, the spiritual seed of satan who believe his lies and act upon them, will all be cast into the everlasting fire at the beginning of the thousand year reign, at the end of the seven year great tribulation -and be no more.


So shall it be at the end of the age: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Angels eat, angels fight, angels cook, angels thresh grain; manna was angels' food; manna was corn from heaven, corn is a grain, threshed.
Some angels sinned by procreating with daughters of Adam and some of them are chained up in hell beneath this earth as a warning to other angels not to do that or else suffer the same fate .

The human, prepared in the womb body of Jesus is human flesh, not of Adam, but brother to Adam; as human as Adam is, but made without the cursed dust that Adam was from, that became cursed when the first Adam person fell who was from it and given dominion over it.

and He is in that same body now, glorified with the glory that Adam had and lost -but with more glory because the first adam was earthy, of the earth, the Last Adam is the YHWH from heaven..

Before the resurrection he walked on water; and walked through a crowd unseen, when they would have killed him, he passed right through them; after the resurrection he walked through a wall; same body, not one bit of difference but for the scars of His passion that he will carry forever for us, as our Lamb of sacrifice and our Mercy Seat, which received the blood of Sprinkling on the cross, after He departed with a broken heart.

Elijah and Moses fasted forty days, Phillip was translated -taken right away, bodily, from the Eunuch; John went in spirit to heaven and saw the entire thousand year Last Day of earth and the regenerated heavens and earth -in spirit; Paul went up to the third heaven, whether in his body or out of his body, he could not tell the difference; Elijah outran Ahab's horses, coming off Carmel; the body of Elisha, dead, lying in a tomb had so much of the power of God in it that a dead man cast upon him came alive; daughters of Adam married angels and had children by them, and so on and so forth -now, tell me again about the difference of Jesus' 'resurrection body' that makes that body some 'spiritual' fabrication, different from His body of incarnation?

And there is much more in Scripture about the human body -we have fallen a long way down, but in our 'regenerated' bodies we will be human, and human flesh, not Adam anymore, but israel, and glorified.

 

[Hidden Manna]

it is a lie that the preterist author you pasted the writing of, said, Hidden Manna, who denied the resurrection body of flesh that Jesus Christ is in, forever.

There you go again yeshuasavedme adding to scripture, it does not say forever it says was made a life-giving Spirit.

John says that the spirit of anti-christ denies the flesh body that Jesus Christ is in.

He 'is come in flesh', is said in the present tense in John, and that was said after He rose and ascended.

I agree that Jesus was God manifested in the flesh but WAS MADE a life-giving Spirit post mortem. You deny that so in a way you maybe
neo-antichrist by dening He is no long flesh but Spirit and will alway remain so. No scripture for that but from scripture we can learn how the princples can apply.

Furthermore, He is returning in His body of flesh to rule over this earth as Son of Man; which He is the Firstborn over as a human being.

We are His temple and physical body here on earth and we are doing a very poor job of rule over this earth but His Kingdom has been increasing since AD70 when the last beast was thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Futhermore, His incarnation body of flesh was laid in the womb of the virgin as the Chief foundation stone of the New house for YHWH to glorify with the Presence of His glory; and it is a human house; named Israel, not Adam, but it is as human as the first man is.

It is a spiritual house and yes we who are alive on earth have physical bodies which are the temple and house of God to indwell.

So are I have agreed with you on many things you say but I yet to see you agree to anything I say even though we agree on somethings. What are you doing or I think you do not know what you are doing.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Hidden Manna,
The first Adam was made a living soul -in a body of flesh.
The last Adam was a Life Giving Spirit -who is come in a body of flesh.
Adam was made, the Spirit of Christ existed from all eternity as YHWH of hosts, second Person who is come in fully human being flesh of the New Creation Man.
The Scripture does not say that Jesus was "made" a Life Giving Spirit and it does not say that He was 'made' 'any thing' after His resurrection -you are preterizing the passage, and it does not say that.

furthermore: YHWH is Spirit, and He exists in three Persons;
Adam is spirit, and He exists in billions of persons.
Spirit is what YHWH is; and before Him there was no God "made' neither shall there be after Him.
So the Last Adam was not made a created Spirit at any time in His incarnation or after it; as He is the Life Giving Spirit in human flesh.

Jesus never gave His Spirit until Pentecost so how could He have been a life-giving Spirit before Pentecost. By saying what you said Jesus was Made a life-giving Spirit before He came in the flesh is to say He was made. Now if He is God how then can God be made a life-giving Spirit?

Jesus was with the Father who has is the begining and the end. Jesus was before Adam because God said let US make man in OUR image. Jesus was not made He was made Spirit after His physical body otherwise He can not be God if He was MADE in the begining.

 

[Hidden Manna]

]

... so, if the first body was made of dust and the second body is made of heaven ... hmmm... then i agree... it would be proper for my soul to discard this stinky ol dusty body for the new and improved spiritual body... cool! i think uve cleared this up a bit for me... thanks

There has been a great misunderstanding over the word body in scripture. When used a corparate body people assign it to physical bodies. From singular to many and spiritual to literal.

]

... ! and, let us not forget that we must be clothed in Christ's righteousness, too, before we present ourselves in our new and improved, sinless spirit bodies.

Excellent point, being clothed in Christ's righteousness is our now spiritually gloried body which is apart of the body of Christ that has been glorified.

Coloss 3:4
When Christ [who is] our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

Have you ever heard that when the father sees us all He sees is Jesus.

]

hmmm... this is almost reading like a tim lahay novel... lol... its good!, but, i was kinda thinking that since Jesus is God incarnate that He could do without the angels assistance... besides, if He could walk through walls with His spirit body than why couldnt he walk through a rock... ... well... actually, since God is God, wouldn't He do as He pleased?

There were no witnesses to accually what happened with Jesus' physical body, but angels were present and His physical body was not around at the time so we can assume that that the angels had something to do with it.

]

... drama! is one of the beautiful qualities of our Lord. dismay is one of our typical qualities... what a wonderful encouragement this story is to me when i find myself wandering down the road of life with my spirit hanging low and clouds of confusion and doubt hanging above... its just then! at moments like this that the Lord has been faithful to intercede and reveal His presence to me in His special ways... that bit of scripture is always an encouragement to me.. thanks

Your welcome, it's been a pleaser to have you come to this tread.

]

interesting... i had never thought of the possibility that God was all three who met with Abe...hmm... interesting.. but, nevertheless, i agree.. it is God and God only who has the power of creation... so, whether He created two or three angelic bodies to meet Abe is moot... just, to me, an interesting model to consider that all three were actually one... kinda like the Holy Trinity... interesting

I found that interesting also the possiblity of the trinity right there with Abraham eating lunch and all manifested in physical bodies.

]


... this model sort of doesnt work scriptually for me, only in the inference that the devil, who is spirit, would be able to manifest himself physcially at will.. which, of course, would mean that the devil could have posed as the risen Christ... no? .. isn't it God, and God alone who has the power of creation? .. isn't this the point Jesus is trying to make by stating that spirits have no flesh? ... i wonder how the disciples understood that.. ive never seen a ghost, but, apparently, they had... wow... scarey thought!!

Consider the times Jesus called Peter Satan and Judus the devil. wow... scarey thought is right. What about some of the people here at CF wow... scarey thought!

]

... exactly to the point! ... one would think that His natural body would not be able to do the same things that His spiritual body could do... like not bleed to death with the holes still in His hands, feet and side... hmmm... but, of course, we are talking about Jesus who walked on the water in His natural body, and also, this same Jesus who would easily evade crowds of angry men trying to lay their hands on Him... Jesus! ...there is something about that name ] Godspeed! jef

Jesus could have walked on a sandbar with one inch of water over it.

People look for miracles and sometimes make miracles happen even when a logical explaination can be given. I do believe that there are real miracles though, don't get me wrong.

Matthew 12:39
But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Jesus never gave His Spirit until Pentecost so how could He have been a life-giving Spirit before Pentecost. By saying what you said Jesus was Made a life-giving Spirit before He came in the flesh is to say He was made. Now if He is God how then can God be made a life-giving Spirit?

Jesus was with the Father who has is the begining and the end. Jesus was before Adam because God said let US make man in OUR image. Jesus was not made He was made Spirit after His physical body otherwise He can not be God if He was MADE in the begining.

You post does not make sense.

It does not say the Life Giving Spirit was made, but that He is come in flesh, who is the Life Giving Spirit.

It is the Last Adam flesh that was made, or prepared, or formed, not the Living Spirit, for He is the Life who is come in flesh.
the word used as 'was made', in KJV is translated these ways below -and was made is not in the original, but added;

AV - into 573, to 281, unto 207, for 140, in 138, on 58,
toward 29, against 26, misc 322; 1774:

The Last Adam was "in" the Life Giving Spirit, the first Adam was 'made' a living soul -in the flesh, he was a living soul: in the flesh, the Last Adam was a Life Giving Spirit, 'Christ'.

The first Adam came into existence, and the word ginomai is translated;
AV - be 255, come to pass 82, be made 69, be done 63, come 52,
become 47, God forbid + 3361 15, arise 13, have 5, be fulfilled 3,
be married to 3, be preferred 3, not tr 14, misc 4, vr done 2; 678
and is this in meaning;
1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

a) of events

3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage

a) of men appearing in public

4) to be made, finished

a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought

5) to become, be made;

It is the flesh of the Last Adam that was made, not the Life Giving Spirit.

Hbr 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

prepared is; katartizo, and is;
1) to render, i.e. to fit, sound, complete

a) to mend (what has been broken or rent), to repair

1) to complete

b) to fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust

1) to fit or frame for one's self, prepare

c) ethically: to strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he ought to be;

and is translated as;
AV - perfect 2, make perfect 2, mend 2, be perfect 2, fit 1, frame 1,
prepare 1, restore 1, perfectly joined together 1; 13

but the Last Adam was not ginomi, as to His 'Living Spirit', for He is Life, itself, who is come, present tense, in flesh of the New Human Being body of the New Creation, made [prepared], in the womb of the virgin to be fully human and our Kinsman-Redeemer/Avenger.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna; Jesus could have walked on a sandbar with one inch of water over it.

People look for miracles and sometimes make miracles happen even when a logical explaination can be given. I do believe that there are real miracles though, don't get me wrong.

Matthew 12:39
But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

Please! Are you saying that Jesus walking on the water was just walking on a sandbar!!!!
Of course, then you have to explain how the boat was rowing across the sea, fighting the wind, and how Peter walked on the water, lost faith, and began to sink -all on a sandbar!

Jesus said if we have faith as a grain of mustard seed we could say to a mountain "Be removed and cast into the sea, and it would be done"; and Jesus said that all He did, we will do, through His name: and so the Church has been doing since Jesus sent the power of the Father to do so, in Jesus' Name on Pentecost. All in the Church do not do all Jesus did at all times; but the Church has the authority to act in His name, in His authority -The Disciples prayed for the power to act in His name, and received the power, infilling them anew, in Acts chapter 4. We are added to His One Church by His Spirit of adoption, but we need a constant filling of His power to act in His name, as our example is, in the Word.


The Church moves in His power, the evil and adultrous generation does not.

Jesus Walks on the Sea
(Mark 6:45-52; John 6:15-21)
22 Immediately Jesus made His disciples get into the boat and go before Him to the other side, while He sent the multitudes away. 23 And when He had sent the multitudes away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray. Now when evening came, He was alone there. 24 But the boat was now *in the middle of the sea, tossed by the waves, for the wind was contrary.
25 Now in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went to them, walking on the sea. 26 And when the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, "It is a ghost!" And they cried out for fear.
27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, "Be of good cheer! It is I; do not be afraid."
28 And Peter answered Him and said, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water."
29 So He said, "Come." And when Peter had come down out of the boat, he walked on the water to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw *that the wind was boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, "Lord, save me!"
31 And immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and caught him, and said to him, "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?" 32 And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased.
33 Then those who were in the boat *came and worshiped Him, saying, "Truly You are the Son of God."

 

[Hidden Manna]

Please! Are you saying that Jesus walking on the water was just walking on a sandbar!!!!
Of course, then you have to explain how the boat was rowing across the sea, fighting the wind, and how Peter walked on the water, lost faith, and began to sink -all on a sandbar!

So Peter COULD HAVE stepped off the sandbar or rock or whatever and yes even a real miracle.

The Church moves in His power, the evil and adultrous generation does not.

Yes I agree 100% the Church moves in His power, however many say Lord, Lord did we not, you know what I mean.

Matt.7:20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.21 " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna


So Peter COULD HAVE stepped off the sandbar or rock or whatever and yes even a real miracle.

My spiritual jaw is dropped!
I find it incredible the lengths a preterist will go to to deny the Word of God.
So you have no Jesus walking on the water, just a sand bar, which Peter stepped out of a boat rowing mightly against a wind, across a lake, and walked on! -then, wonder of wonders, you, in your preterism, have Peter step off the sandbar, and finally, you confess that just maybe a real miracle did happen, but you just don't flat out accept the Word as it is written, that indeed, a real miracle was there from the beginning!

 

[Hidden Manna]

My spiritual jaw is dropped!
I find it incredible the lengths a preterist will go to to deny the Word of God.
So you have no Jesus walking on the water, just a sand bar, which Peter stepped out of a boat rowing mightly against a wind, across a lake, and walked on! -then, wonder of wonders, you, in your preterism, have Peter step off the sandbar, and finally, you confess that just maybe a real miracle did happen, but you just don't flat out accept the Word as it is written, that indeed, a real miracle was there from the beginning!

Show me where the word says that indeed, a real miracle was there from the beginning! Preterism has nothing to do with peter step off a sand bar, nor does the word of God claim that walking on the water was a miracle. We take it that way by the way it was written, but what all really took place we do not know. We only know what was recorded from the writers perspective.

Sorry to see that you of all people have just misrepresented what I said after you accused me of doing so to you.



I never said Peter or Jesus DID walk on a sandbar, nor did I say that they DID NOT walk on water.

I said COULD HAVE.

Jesus and Peter no doubt walked on water and Peter would not have sunk in an inch of water, but we do not know for sure whether there was a sandbar or rock underneath an inch of water or on the other hand that the bottom was 30 feet below. Peter COULD HAVE walked off a rock then sunk, there is no solid proof of any miracle though I believe it was, but it COULD HAVE been just an event recorded in scripture.


Do we have proof of the exact location of these events so that we can find out for sure? We cannot use what we have to convince anyone that they did walk on water that was very deep.

Anyway I do not need a sign or a miracle in order for me to believe in God, and that Jesus did, if fact do miracles whether walking on water was one of them or not.

Now I hope that what I said has replaced your spiritual jaw back into place so that you will not say things like I find it incredible the lengths a preterist will go to to deny the Word of God.

I never denied God's word, I was wandering what or how the event happened. Hey just like the second appearing of Christ being a spiritual one in the glory of the Father. After all His appearing was not at all as what the futurist make it out to be.

Hey at least you are getting the fact that we now have a spiritual body by when you said: My spiritual jaw is dropped! you see you do not have to wait for this because it already happen and all things have become new.

2 Cor 5:17
Therefore, if anyone [is] in Christ, [he is] a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Revelation 21:5
Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful."

Now please do not tell me this has not happened yet.

 

[Hidden Manna]

.
i wonder if maybe the importance of holding to a physical resurrection was of its simplicity... a very difficult concept made simple for simpletons like me ... like Luke, i can believe wat i can see... i can believe wat i can somewhat comprehend.. and, thus, be of good courage and hope in Christ.


i was thinking that what was being described was a spiritual body instead of a natural body... the key to my pee brain was the word 'body'.

... so, if the first body was made of dust and the second body is made of heaven ... hmmm... then i agree... it would be proper for my soul to discard this stinky ol dusty body for the new and improved spiritual body... cool! i think uve cleared this up a bit for me... thanks

... ! and, let us not forget that we must be clothed in Christ's righteousness, too, before we present ourselves in our new and improved, sinless spirit bodies.


now, this is a hard concept to understand... i thought we didnt do that in Heaven for all of our desires would be found satisfied in the presence of
God.


hmmm... this is almost reading like a tim lahay novel... lol... its good!, but, i was kinda thinking that since Jesus is God incarnate that He could do without the angels assistance... besides, if He could walk through walls with His spirit body than why couldnt he walk through a rock... ... well... actually, since God is God, wouldn't He do as He pleased?


... drama! is one of the beautiful qualities of our Lord. dismay is one of our typical qualities... what a wonderful encouragement this story is to me when i find myself wandering down the road of life with my spirit hanging low and clouds of confusion and doubt hanging above... its just then! at moments like this that the Lord has been faithful to intercede and reveal His presence to me in His special ways... that bit of scripture is always an encouragement to me.. thanks


interesting... i had never thought of the possibility that God was all three who met with Abe...hmm... interesting.. but, nevertheless, i agree.. it is God and God only who has the power of creation... so, whether He created two or three angelic bodies to meet Abe is moot... just, to me, an interesting model to consider that all three were actually one... kinda like the Holy Trinity... interesting

... this model sort of doesnt work scriptually for me, only in the inference that the devil, who is spirit, would be able to manifest himself physcially at will.. which, of course, would mean that the devil could have posed as the risen Christ... no? .. isn't it God, and God alone who has the power of creation? .. isn't this the point Jesus is trying to make by stating that spirits have no flesh? ... i wonder how the disciples understood that.. ive never seen a ghost, but, apparently, they had... wow... scarey thought!!
... exactly to the point! ... one would think that His natural body would not be able to do the same things that His spiritual body could do... like not bleed to death with the holes still in His hands, feet and side... hmmm... but, of course, we are talking about Jesus who walked on the water in His natural body, and also, this same Jesus who would easily evade crowds of angry men trying to lay their hands on Him... Jesus! ...there is something about that name ] Godspeed! jef

In John 11:26 we have proof that whosoever lives and believes shall never die. It is obvious that Jesus meant, shall never spiritually die because everyone is appointed to die once physically. Some twice if they were ever raised from the dead physically like Lazuras, if not then there must be some who are at least 2000 years old amongst us today.
John 11
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Now here is what amazes me is that the word body in Romans 8:10,11 does not refer to the physical human body, simply because those who are in Christ are not physically dead. It is obvious that it is referring to a spiritual body. Yet most believe the body when speaking of being resurrected is just the physical body, however 1 Cor.15 makes it very clear the flesh and blood will not enter into the Kingdom of God.
Romans 8
9But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Here is verse 12 we have the death of the body of sin if we live by the Spirit. This again makes it very clear that the scripture use of the word body is not a physical body but a spiritual body.
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Now with this all in mind we need to re-read 1 Cor. 15 when it comes to the body being resurrected

The way that futurist get around this verse in Romans 8:10,11, is to say it is a body that has been changed. It is still physical obviously if you ask them just a glorified body. Does anyone know how a physical body is changed to go in heaven when it has been glorified?
And were in the Bible does anyone say we receive a glorified body any way? The only person in the New Testament who prayed to be glorified was Jesus and he was not talking about his body.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory, which I had with thee before the world was. (John 17:5) So Christ prayed for this glory for Himself. How extensive was this glory? I think we would all agree that it is infinite glory and Christ was praying that the glory that He had before the foundation of the world would be restored to Him since He would soon be putting off that glory and righteousness for His people at the cross.

So then, the glory that was restored to Christ was prayed BY Christ to be given to us...the exact same glory. So then, if this is true, our glorification is identical to His. This is why Paul said:

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. I believe Christ restored that image and character and attributes of God within us.

This is speaking of the fullness of the New Covenant and the glory of God within us NOT a glorified body. Earlier in the chapter Paul addresses the fact that this glorification was about to happen: Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which is about to be revealed in us.

Paul also spoke of this in Colossians:

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (Colossians 1:25-27)

Christ’s glory was not IN them yet because His Parousia (presence) had not taken place: My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, (Galatians 4:19)

There is not one word about any glorified body. Now notice what Paul says would be strengthened with might by his Spirit.

That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in ( the inner man That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, (Ephesians 3:16-17)

See it? It is the (inner man). The inner man is already in side of this earthly shell. The plant dose not come from another source or somewhere else other then that which is already inside the seed. The seed has everything that is already needs in side to become a flower. The same concept goes for the inner man that is with in our earthly body.

I like to say we are spirits having a humans experience NOT humans going to have a spiritual experience some day. The real you is a spirit. That is the part that goes on.

Again remember I said Christ restored the ( image and character and attributes) of God within us. The church was being changed into His (image or glory) from the Old Covenant. That is why John 17:20-24 is so imperative to our understanding of life and presence in Christ and Christ in us.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou loved me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:20-24)

Also consider this comparison:

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: {17} And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. {18} For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the (glory which shall be revealed in us).

All these passages associate the glorification of Christ within us incredible OT passages dealing with the same promise:

Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an EVERLASTING COVENANT with you, even the sure mercies of David. {4} Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath GLORIFIED thee. (Isaiah 55:3-5)

Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. (Isaiah 44:23)

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna; I never said Peter or Jesus DID walk on a sandbar, nor did I say that they DID NOT walk on water.

I said COULD HAVE....

Jesus and Peter no doubt walked on water and Peter would not have sunk in an inch of water, but we do not know for sure whether there was a sandbar or rock underneath an inch of water or on the other hand that the bottom was 30 feet below. Peter COULD HAVE walked off a rock then sunk, there is no solid proof of any miracle though I believe it was, but it COULD HAVE been just an event recorded in scripture.


Do we have proof of the exact location of these events so that we can find out for sure? We cannot use what we have to convince anyone that they did walk on water that was very deep.

That's just the point! The Word of God says that Jesus walked on the water and Peter stepped out of the boat and began to walk on the water and began to sink: Jesus said Peter began to sink for lack of faith -not -repeat: not! for lack of sandbar -or rock! -and we are regenerated in 'Spirit' in Christ, already, who are born again, even while dwelling in our bodies which are in Adam; but we who are born again in Spirit are promised regenerated bodies to dwell in forever -our own bodies regenerated and then glorified.

 

[Hidden Manna]

That's just the point! The Word of God says that Jesus walked on the water and Peter stepped out of the boat and began to walk on the water and began to sink: Jesus said Peter began to sink for lack of faith -not -repeat: not! for lack of sandbar -or rock! -and we are regenerated in 'Spirit' in Christ, already, who are born again, even while dwelling in our bodies which are in Adam; but we who are born again in Spirit are promised regenerated bodies to dwell in forever -our own bodies regenerated and then glorified.

I read the passage about Peter and you are right, but as for the rest of what you wrote you are wrong. Here you need to read this again, then tell me where it is wrong or right. This little game is fun even if I lose sometime.

In John 11:26 we have proof that whosoever lives and believes shall never die. It is obvious that Jesus meant, shall never spiritually die because everyone is appointed to die once physically. Some twice if they were ever raised from the dead physically like Lazuras, if not then there must be some who are at least 2000 years old amongst us today.
John 11
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Now here is what amazes me is that the word body in Romans 8:10,11 does not refer to the physical human body, simply because those who are in Christ are not physically dead. It is obvious that it is referring to a spiritual body. Yet most believe the body when speaking of being resurrected is just the physical body, however 1 Cor.15 makes it very clear the flesh and blood will not enter into the Kingdom of God.
Romans 8
9But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Here is verse 12 we have the death of the body of sin if we live by the Spirit. This again makes it very clear that the scripture use of the word body is not a physical body but a spiritual body.
Sonship Through the Spirit
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Now with this all in mind we need to re-read 1 Cor. 15 when it comes to the body being resurrected

The way that futurist get around this verse in Romans 8:10,11, is to say it is a body that has been changed. It is still physical obviously if you ask them just a glorified body. Does anyone know how a physical body is changed to go in heaven when it has been glorified?
And were in the Bible does anyone say we receive a glorified body any way? The only person in the New Testament who prayed to be glorified was Jesus and he was not talking about his body.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory, which I had with thee before the world was. (John 17:5) So Christ prayed for this glory for Himself. How extensive was this glory? I think we would all agree that it is infinite glory and Christ was praying that the glory that He had before the foundation of the world would be restored to Him since He would soon be putting off that glory and righteousness for His people at the cross.

So then, the glory that was restored to Christ was prayed BY Christ to be given to us...the exact same glory. So then, if this is true, our glorification is identical to His. This is why Paul said:

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. I believe Christ restored that image and character and attributes of God within us.

This is speaking of the fullness of the New Covenant and the glory of God within us NOT a glorified body. Earlier in the chapter Paul addresses the fact that this glorification was about to happen: Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which is about to be revealed in us.

Paul also spoke of this in Colossians:

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (Colossians 1:25-27)

Christ’s glory was not IN them yet because His Parousia (presence) had not taken place: My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, (Galatians 4:19)

There is not one word about any glorified body. Now notice what Paul says would be strengthened with might by his Spirit.

That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in ( the inner man That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, (Ephesians 3:16-17)

See it? It is the (inner man). The inner man is already in side of this earthly shell. The plant dose not come from another source or somewhere else other then that which is already inside the seed. The seed has everything that is already needs in side to become a flower. The same concept goes for the inner man that is with in our earthly body.

I like to say we are spirits having a humans experience NOT humans going to have a spiritual experience some day. The real you is a spirit. That is the part that goes on.

Again remember I said Christ restored the ( image and character and attributes) of God within us. The church was being changed into His (image or glory) from the Old Covenant. That is why John 17:20-24 is so imperative to our understanding of life and presence in Christ and Christ in us.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou loved me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:20-24)

Also consider this comparison:

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: {17} And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. {18} For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the (glory which shall be revealed in us).

All these passages associate the glorification of Christ within us incredible OT passages dealing with the same promise:

Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an EVERLASTING COVENANT with you, even the sure mercies of David. {4} Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath GLORIFIED thee. (Isaiah 55:3-5)

Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. (Isaiah 44:23)

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna; I read the passage about Peter and you are right, but as for the rest of what you wrote you are wrong. Here you need to read this again, then tell me where it is wrong or right. This little game is fun even if I lose sometime.

In John 11:26 we have proof that whosoever lives and believes shall never die. It is obvious that Jesus meant, shall never spiritually die because everyone is appointed to die once physically. Some twice if they were ever raised from the dead physically like Lazuras, if not then there must be some who are at least 2000 years old amongst us today.
... And were in the Bible does anyone say we receive a glorified body any way? The only person in the New Testament who prayed to be glorified was Jesus and he was not talking about his body.

The body that is regenerated is to be glorified, as Adam was, but with more glory because Adam, whom we are in, is of the earth, earthy: the Last Adam is the LORD from heaven, and we who are adopted in His One Spirit will share the glory He received as YHWH of hosts in flesh, a human.



I agree that all who believe in Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior will never die; spiritually, which is separation from the Living Spirit of adoption; and when we receive our regenerated bodies, we shall never die physically in those immortal bodies that will be glorified with the Presence of the glory of the Father.

In Adam all die, physically, as a rule; but Enoch and Elijah are exceptions, though Elijah will die in the streets of Jerusalem after returning and preaching for the three and a half years as an eyewitness, representing the prophets of Jesus Christ, to Israel, witnessing of His incarnated and resurrected glory; and all living Saints of God shall be changed without dying physically at the rapture, as all living tares and goats shall not die physically, but be cast alive, body and soul, into the everlasting fire at the return of the LORD Jesus Christ to cleanse His kingdom and reign for the thousand years.

The flesh and blood that will not inherit the kingdom of God is adamic flesh and adamic blood.
Jesus Christ is not in adamic flesh and His blood was not of Adam. He is the Israel of God, the Firstborn of the New Creation human being, in whose image we shall be regenerated and immortal as ‘Israel‘ in Him, sons of God, and no longer in ‘Adam‘, the dead son of God.

Adam, our first, firstborn, could have lived forever in his dead body with no hope for redemption if he had taken of the tree of life after he fell, but existed in the state of eternal spiritual separation, and then we, his seed, would never have had a hope for redemption, for adam flesh will never be sons of God again; and those resurrected ‘in Adam’ will live forever, but in the second death, the lake of fire -not as sons of God, not made ‘immortal’, so that they will never die that second death, as to being cast aways, as sons of God; and they will suffer that fate by their own rejection of the Light that lights every man that comes into the world, and not by the first Adam’s sin, which is covered by the once for all atoning blood of sprinkling on the Mercy Seat, the body of the New Man.

-And I'm glad that you see Peter's and Jesus' walking on the water.
I think I once read that you do not believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today, is that correct?


The blood of atonement cleanses all in the one Adam and they do not have to die the second death. But to be cleansed in Adam is one part, we still must each “dress” as sons of God in the New born again Spirit, and body.

We are in Adamic flesh, dead in spirit as sons of God; when we are born again in Spirit, we still cannot enter into the Presence of the LORD on high until we are in our regenerated bodies also, which the clothes the priests put on to enter the Presence of the glory to minister, and removed to go out represented.

but born again in Spirit, and shall be born again in body, for we have the promise of the Spirit and of the perfect man that we will come to in the regeneration of our body.


The Parable of the Wedding Feast

(Luke 14:15-24)22
And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, "See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding."' 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.' 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, *take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna; See it? It is the (inner man). The inner man is already in side of this earthly shell. The plant dose not come from another source or somewhere else other then that which is already inside the seed. The seed has everything that is already needs in side to become a flower. The same concept goes for the inner man that is with in our earthly body.

I like to say we are spirits having a humans experience NOT humans going to have a spiritual experience some day. The real you is a spirit. That is the part that goes on.

Our inner man is our soul/spirit, but made to inhabit a body of human flesh, which body of flesh was prepared for us before it was breathed into and became a living soul; and we are 'spirit' as a being, called 'Adam', and 'Spirit' as the New Man, joined to Him by the One Spirit of adoption, but the body is precious, made in the image of the pre-incarnate Word of God (Romans 5:14), in the beginning (Genesis1:26-28), and in our own human being body we will dwell forever, whether in our born again body of adoption in which the elements of this creation are dissolved (whether over time, by naturally returning to the dust, or by being burned, or by instantly being dissolved at the resurrection, and or regeneration, at the "laqach"; or in our same adamic unregenerated resurrected body in the lake of fire, the outer darkness, forever, which is the second death.


We who are born again have the firstfruits of the Spirit, but we await the redemption of our bodies, at the resurrection or the regeneration of them at the rapture =the "laqach".

Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

Job was well versed in the resurrection of His body even though it would die, and he knew that it was His own body that He would be in and see God in, His Redeemer -"in the last day!".
Job 19:25 For I know [that] my redeemer liveth, and [that] he shall stand at the last [day] upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And [though] after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Though our body die, not one hair of our head will be lost, in the regeneration, for the numbers of hairs on our heads are numbered in the Book of Life.

Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Luk 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

From Suffering to Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

 

[Hidden Manna]

The body that is regenerated is to be glorified, as Adam was, but with more glory because Adam, whom we are in, is of the earth, earthy: the Last Adam is the LORD from heaven, and we who are adopted in His One Spirit will share the glory He received as YHWH of hosts in flesh, a human.

We are no long in Adam or of Adam when we are in Christ right ?

I agree that all who believe in Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior will never die; spiritually, which is separation from the Living Spirit of adoption; and when we receive our regenerated bodies, we shall never die physically in those immortal bodies that will be glorified with the Presence of the glory of the Father.

Okay we agree on the first half, but in the second half you said:

and when we receive our regenerated bodies, we shall never die physically in those immortal bodies that will be glorified with the Presence of the glory of the Father.

I can only say that I do not see this view in scripture as what was posted in my last posting.

Now if I am wrong I would gladly receive from the Lord a regenerated physical body if He would then give me one.

Could you tell me if we receive a physical body after we die will it be able to walk through walks and vanish out of sight and reappear at someother place in the universe like Jesus can do after He was resurrected?

In Adam all die, physically, as a rule; but Enoch and Elijah are exceptions, though Elijah will die in the streets of Jerusalem after returning and preaching for the three and a half years as an eyewitness, representing the prophets of Jesus Christ, to Israel, witnessing of His incarnated and resurrected glory; and all living Saints of God shall be changed without dying physically at the rapture, as all living tares and goats shall not die physically, but be cast alive, body and soul, into the everlasting fire at the return of the LORD Jesus Christ to cleanse His kingdom and reign for the thousand years.

What translation of the bible are you using because I cannot find anywhere where it says that :

Elijah will die in the streets of Jerusalem after returning and preaching for the three and a half years as an eyewitness ?

The flesh and blood that will not inherit the kingdom of God is adamic flesh and adamic blood.
Jesus Christ is not in adamic flesh and His blood was not of Adam. He is the Israel of God, the Firstborn of the New Creation human being, in whose image we shall be regenerated and immortal as ‘Israel‘ in Him, sons of God, and no longer in ‘Adam‘, the dead son of God.

Okay I have a real big problem with accepting what you say here because you say we are in Adam and that we cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. But that we shall when we get regenerated bodies that are glorified.

Are not believer now in Christ and Christ has set us free the the bond to Adam? Adam represents to me being under the law of sin and death "spiritual separation from God".

Adam, our first, firstborn, could have lived forever in his dead body with no hope for redemption if he had taken of the tree of life after he fell, but existed in the state of eternal spiritual separation, and then we, his seed, would never have had a hope for redemption, for adam flesh will never be sons of God again; and those resurrected ‘in Adam’ will live forever, but in the second death, the lake of fire -not as sons of God, not made ‘immortal’, so that they will never die that second death, as to being cast aways, as sons of God; and they will suffer that fate by their own rejection of the Light that lights every man that comes into the world, and not by the first Adam’s sin, which is covered by the once for all atoning blood of sprinkling on the Mercy Seat, the body of the New Man.

Where does scripture say Adam could have lived forever in His dead body?

Did Adam not die a spiritual death the day he sinned and would have died physically anyway even if he did not sin. Thats the way I see it.

-And I'm glad that you see Peter's and Jesus' walking on the water.
I think I once read that you do not believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today, is that correct?

I believe God still can do what ever He wills to do as in the gifts but I also believe it is not the same as it was before AD70 when the perfect had come and had brought us into the fullness of the Kingdom of Jesus Christ.

From the cross to AD70 was about 40 years where the gifts and miracles happened alot like in the 40 years in the wilderness before they entered into the promised land.

We do not see real gifts and miracles happening to the same degree. When was the last time you healed a blind person or made the lame to walk or raise the dead. You know what I mean, all we see and hear about is the fake TV evangelist who is making money at false miracles where it is a set up.

Like I said though God can and still does the real miracle the odd time but not to the same degree as when between the cross and AD70.

The blood of atonement cleanses all in the one Adam and they do not have to die the second death. But to be cleansed in Adam is one part, we still must each “dress” as sons of God in the New born again Spirit, and body.

They were already doing so in the first century and recorded it in scripture. Paul said to put on Christ. Do you think they were putting on His physical glorified regenerated body.

I believe it was spiritual.

We are in Adamic flesh, dead in spirit as sons of God; when we are born again in Spirit, we still cannot enter into the Presence of the LORD on high until we are in our regenerated bodies also, which the clothes the priests put on to enter the Presence of the glory to minister, and removed to go out represented.

Buy saying that then we are not in Christ if we are in Adam. then you say we cannot enter into the Presence of the LORD on high until we are in our regenerated bodies also.

That would mean we are not yet born again and the we are still separated from God.

Now it has become very clear to me that you do not have faith that you are in Christ yet until you recieve a regenerated physical body. Am I right or are you very confused. I think any mainline creedalist Christian would have to agree with me here aside from what I believe in as a Preterist.

but born again in Spirit, and shall be born again in body, for we have the promise of the Spirit and of the perfect man that we will come to in the regeneration of our body.

Now you are saying that we shall be born again in body. This is just way to confusing to me and I yet to see a clear scripture from you to prove what you say is so. So I'll just have to keep the truth I have and you can keep the faith for a new physical body. God will not hold that against you because I know now that you are sincerely deceived and if I'm wrong God will give me a physical body to after I die physically.

I was just wandering why you never mentioned the name of Jesus ?

 

[Hidden Manna]

Our inner man is our soul/spirit, but made to inhabit a body of human flesh, which body of flesh was prepared for us before it was breathed into and became a living soul; and we are 'spirit' as a being, called 'Adam', and 'Spirit' as the New Man, joined to Him by the One Spirit of adoption, but the body is precious, made in the image of the pre-incarnate Word of God (Romans 5:14), in the beginning (Genesis1:26-28), and in our own human being body we will dwell forever, whether in our born again body of adoption in which the elements of this creation are dissolved (whether over time, by naturally returning to the dust, or by being burned, or by instantly being dissolved at the resurrection, and or regeneration, at the "laqach"; or in our same adamic unregenerated resurrected body in the lake of fire, the outer darkness, forever, which is the second death.


We who are born again have the firstfruits of the Spirit, but we await the redemption of our bodies, at the resurrection or the regeneration of them at the rapture =the "laqach".

Rom 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

Job was well versed in the resurrection of His body even though it would die, and he knew that it was His own body that He would be in and see God in, His Redeemer -"in the last day!".
Job 19:25 For I know [that] my redeemer liveth, and [that] he shall stand at the last [day] upon the earth:
Job 19:26 And [though] after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Though our body die, not one hair of our head will be lost, in the regeneration, for the numbers of hairs on our heads are numbered in the Book of Life.

Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Luk 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

From Suffering to Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

This was writing to them in the first century, not us today, though it was written for us to learn from because all scripture has been fulfilled but not according to how you have preceived it to be..