Was God's Kingdom already established in 70 AD ? - Preterism views

[Hidden Manna]

The oracles teach the first principles of the things of God, and if anyone does not speak according to the law and the testimony, there is no light in them.

This was true for OC saints and the SDA's but we are no longer under the law we live by the spirit of the law which is in Christ.

Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if [there is] any other commandment, are [all] summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love [is] the fulfillment of the law.11 And [do] this, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation [is] nearer than when we [first] believed.

1 Cor 1:23
we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,

 

[Hidden Manna]

I've posted this before, but it is a 'merry go round' with a preterist, who does not believe the plain Word of God nor speak according to the first principles in the oracles.

I have posted this before but seeing that no futurist can answer the questions at the end I'm posting it again so that any futurist can have a shot at it if they can.

A Rebuttal to futurism from the time statements in the Bible

1. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2)

2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7)

3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10)

4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12)

5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17)

6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7)

7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." (Matt. 10:23)

8. "....the age about to come." (Matt. 12:32)

9. "The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds." (Matt. 16:27)

10. "There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)

11. "'When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?' '....He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.' '....Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it.' ....When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Matt. 21:40-41,43,45)

12. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34)

13. "From now on, you [Caiaphas, the chief priests, the scribes, the elders, the whole Sanhedrin] shall be seeing the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Matt. 26:64; Mk. 14:62; Lk. 22:**)

14. "The kingdom of God is at hand." (Mk. 1:15)

15. "What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vine-growers, and will give the vineyard to others. ....They [the chief priests, scribes and elders] understood that He spoke the parable against them." (Mk. 12:9,12)

16. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Mk. 13:30)

17. “Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?” (Lk. 3:7)

18. “The axe is already laid at the root of the trees. " (Lk. 3:9)

19. "His winnowing fork is in His hand…." (Lk. 3:17)

20. “The kingdom of God has come near to you.” (Lk. 10:9)

21. “The kingdom of God has come near.” (Lk. 10:11)

22. “What, therefore, will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy these vine-growers and will give the vineyard to others." …The scribes and the chief priests …understood that He spoke this parable against them.” (Lk. 20:15-16,19)

23. “These are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Lk. 21:22)

24. "This generation will not pass away until all things take place.” (Lk. 21:32)

25. "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.' Then they will begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us,' and to the hills, 'Cover us.'” (Lk. 23:28-30; Compare Rev. 6:14-17)

26. "We were hoping that He was the One who is about to redeem Israel.” (Lk. 24:21)

27. "I will come to you. …In that Day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.' …'Lord, what then has happened that You are about to disclose Yourself to us, and not to the world?'" (Jn. 14:18,20,22)

28. "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?" (Jn. 21:22)

29. “This is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: 'And it shall be in the last days…'” (Acts 2:16-17)

30. “He has fixed a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness…” (Acts 17:31)

31. “There is about to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.” (Acts 24:15)

32. “As he was discussing righteousness, self-control and the judgment about to come…" (Acts 24:25)

33. “Not for [Abraham's] sake only was it written, that [faith] was reckoned to him [as righteousness], but for our sake also, to whom it is about to be reckoned.” (Rom. 4:23-24)

34. “If you are living according to the flesh, you are about to die.” (Rom. 8:13)

35. “I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us.” (Rom. 8:18)

36. "It is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand." (Rom. 13:11-12)

37. “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20)

38. “The time has been shortened.” (I Cor. 7:29)

39. “The form of this world is passing away.” (I Cor. 7:31)

40. “Now these things …were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.” (I Cor. 10:11)

41. “We shall not all fall sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.” (I Cor. 15:51-52)

42. "Maranatha!" [The Lord comes!] (I Cor. 16:22)

43. "...not only in this age, but also in the one about to come.” (Eph. 1:21)

44. “The Lord is near.” (Phil. 4:5)

45. "The gospel …was proclaimed in all creation under heaven." (Col. 1:23; Compare Matt. 24:14; Rom. 10:18; 16:26; Col. 1:5-6; II Tim. 4:17; Rev. 14:6-7; cf. I Clement 5,7)

46. “…things which are a shadow of what is about to come.” (Col. 2:16-17)

47. “…we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord… …We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds… …You, brethren, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief.” (I Thess. 4:15,17; 5:4)

48. “May your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Thess. 5:23)

49. “It is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire.” (II Thess. 1:6-7) [published by PreteristArchive.com]

50. “Godliness …holds promise for the present life and that which is about to come.” (I Tim. 4:8)

 

[Hidden Manna]

Pt.2


51. “I charge you …that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Tim. 6:14)

52. “…storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for that which is about to come, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.” (I Tim. 6:19)

53. “In the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self… …Avoid these men. For of these are those who enter into households and captivate weak women… …These also oppose the truth… …But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all…” (II Tim. 3:1-2,5-6,8-9)

54. “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is about to judge the living and the dead…” (II Tim. 4:1)

55. “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son.” (Heb. 1:1-2)

56. “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who are about to inherit salvation?” (Heb. 1:14)

57. “He did not subject to angels the world about to come.” (Heb. 2:5)

58. “…and have tasted …the powers of the age about to come.” (Heb. 6:5)

59. "For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near a curse, and it's end is for burning.” (Heb. 6:7-8)

60. “When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” (Heb. 8:13)

61. “The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way of the [heavenly] Holy Places has not yet been revealed, while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.” (Heb. 9:8-10; Compare Gal. 4:19; Eph. 2:21-22; 3:17; 4:13)

62. “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 9:11)

63. “Now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin.” (Heb. 9:26)

64. “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 10:1)

65. “…as you see the Day drawing near.” (Heb. 10:25)

66. “…the fury of a fire which is about to consume the adversaries.” (Heb. 10:27)

67. “For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay.” (Heb. 10:37)

68. “For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the one that is about to come.” (Heb. 13:14)

**. "Speak and so act, as those who are about to be judged by the law of liberty." (Jms. 2:12)

70. “Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. …It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!” (Jms. 5:1,3)

71. “Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.” (Jms. 5:7)

72. “You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.” (Jms. 5:8)

73. “…salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (I Peter 1:6)

74. “He …has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.” (I Peter 1:20)

75. “They shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.” (I Peter 4:5)

76. “The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.” (I Peter 4:7)

77. "For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God.” (I Peter 4:17)

78. “…as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is about to be revealed.” (I Peter 5:1)

79. “We have the prophetic word …which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the Day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.” (II Peter 1:19)

80. “Their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (II Peter 2:3)

81. “In the last days mockers will come. …For this they willingly are ignorant of…” (I Peter 3:3,5)

82. “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God.” (II Peter 3:10-12)

83. “The darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.” (I Jn. 2:8)

84. “The world is passing away, and its desires.” (I Jn. 2:17)

85. “It is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18)

86. “Even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18; Compare Matt. 24:23-34)

87. “This is that of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.” (I Jn. 4:3; Compare II Thess. 2:7)

88. “For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation. …About these also Enoch …prophesied, saying, 'Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly…'” (Jude 1:4,14-15)

89. “But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, that they were saying to you, 'In the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.' These are the ones who cause divisions…” (Jude 1:17-19)

90. “…to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 1:1)

91. “The time is near.” (Rev. 1:3)

92. “Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.” (Rev. 2:25)

93. “I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is about to come upon the whole world.” (Rev. 3:10)

94. “I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 3:11)

95. “And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.” (Rev. 12:5)

96. "And in her [the Great City Babylon] was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." (Rev. 18:24; Compare Matt. 23:35-36; Lk. 11:50-51)

97. “…to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 22:6)

98. "Behold, I am coming quickly. " (Rev. 22:7)

99. "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." (Rev. 22:10; Compare Dan. 8:26)

100. "Behold, I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 22:12)

101. "Yes, I am coming quickly." (Rev. 22:20)

Now it seems to me that there are only two ways to "get around" these 101 Scriptures and remain a Futurist. One of those ways is to dismiss the spirit of imminence that saturates the New Testament and to say that it only indicates things that are "soon in God's sight." There are some major problems with that approach

If the imminence saturating the New Testament was only an "in-God's-sight" imminence, then (1) why was the Old Testament not also saturated with an "in-God's-sight" imminence?

(2) Why did God not tell Adam and Eve, "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand?" Why did He not tell Abraham, "The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds?"

(3) Why did He not say to Malachi, "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place?"

The fact is that what God said was near to the Apostles, He said was not near to the earlier prophets. Perhaps the clearest illustration of this truth is found in a comparison of Dan. 8:26 and Rev. 22:10:

(Daniel 12:4) But thou, O Daniel, (shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end) many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

(Revelation 22:10) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

A direct parallel to Daniel 12:4 is Revelation 22:10. Daniel as well as John received a vision of the time of the end. Daniel is told to seal up the book, till the time of the end. From Daniel's time 586 to Christ was approximately 500 years. Ok, that is a good reason for God to tell Daniel to seal up the book. Five hundred years is an incredibly long time for a book to be un-sealed if the end was not (at hand) So God told Daniel to seal up his book. Anyway at the end the seal of the book would be loosened, right?

So after five-hundred years (many days) had passed from Daniel to Johns book of Revelation, the angel of the Lord tells John at the end of the book: (Revelation 22:10) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

"Seal not", why? "at hand". If Johns vision was referring to events nearly 2000 years to come, the book should have been sealed up with John just as well as it was with Daniel. The visions that Daniel received of the end were referring to "many days". "At hand" has nothing to do with events 2000 years to come.

 

[Hidden Manna]

That is coming, still, in the regeneration of our bodies when we are glorified, which is when we shall no more be "Jew, Gentile, male, female", and not marry nor give in marraige nor procreate -nor have any dwelling place in this present earth until it is regenerated after the tousand year reign; but we will have reached the goal that Paul pressed toward, as the One New Man, in body, soul, and Spirit, in the New Man's likeness and image; which is the goal, the finish, that the law taught of in the living oracles, that the Creator provided for us from the beginning of the world -which is to come, in the regeneration.

Paul did not say in the regeneration of our bodies when we are glorified, which is when we shall no more be "Jew, Gentile, male, female"

Paul did not say "shall be" as if in future, he said has made both one and later calls it them one body through the cross, jew and gentile that is. Something most futurist even acknowledge except for you and the regenerated human fleshly body thing which the scriptures do not mean.


Eph.2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, [that is,] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man [from] the two, [thus] making peace,16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross,]

but we will have reached the goal that Paul pressed toward, as the One New Man, in body, soul, and Spirit, in the New Man's likeness and image; which is the goal, the finish, that the law taught of in the living oracles, that the Creator provided for us from the beginning of the world -which is to come, in the regeneration.

They reached that goal when the old vanished away in AD70 because the body scripture is referring to is the corparate body Christ without the old system in place which pointed to spiritual realities in Christ.

What Body was Resurrected


Paul DOES say that there is ONLY one body. I believe it is that ONE body that is being spoken about when "resurrection" of the "dead in Christ" is talked about. It is that "body" that will rise...not a physical "body".

Romans 12:5
so in Christ we who are many form one body , and each member belongs to all the others.
1 Corinthians 12:12
The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body . So it is with Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:20
As it is, there are many parts, but one body .
Ephesians 2:16
and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body , and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—
Ephesians 4:25
Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body .
Colossians 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

It is the dead "body" of sin that has to be resurrected:

Romans 6:6
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—

We know our physical "body" isn't done away with when we are saved

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin , yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Is your PHYSICAL "body" dead because of your sin?

1 Corinthians 15:35
[The Resurrection Body ] But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?"

Notice Paul says "body" and not "bodies" ONE body.

1 Corinthians 15:42
So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable.

Notice again the singular "body" and not "bodies".

1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body .If there is a natural body , there is also a spiritual body .

Again, Paul continues to use the singular "body" and not "bodies". He doesn't say "there are natural BODIES and there are also spiritual BODIES"

2 Corinthians 4:10
We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body .

Paul says " OUR body"....why doesn't he say "OUR BODIES"...he's obviously talking about many people by using "OUR"....but he STILL uses the singular "BODY" and not "bodies". OUR ONE BODY.

2 Corinthians 4:11
For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body .

Again, Paul says OUR mortal BODY (singular)...why not "bodies".

Then notice Paul's usage of of the term "body" when he's referring to his OWN PERSONAL PHYSICAL BODY as opposed to this OTHER "body" he's been talking about :

THE "body"
Philippians 1:24
but it is more necessary for you that I remain in THE body .
His PERSONAL body
Galatians 6:17
Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on MY body the marks of Jesus.
Philippians 1:20
I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in MY body ,whether by life or by death.

Paul referring to his listeners PHYSICAL "body" or "bodies"

1 Thessalonians 4:4
that each of you should learn to control his OWN body in a way that is holy and honorable.
Romans 7:5
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in OUR bodies ,(notice the plural) so that we bore fruit for death.


And we see in this next verse that Paul used the term "body" to refer to a GROUP of people

1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

What do you think Peter means here by "judged according to men in regard to THE BODY"?

1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body ,but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Then let's look at the 3 scriptures where Paul talks about "bodies" where people say it is referring to the "resurrection"

Romans 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

No mention of resurrection here. Paul is talking to his listeners about something that had already happened to them "if the spirit is living in you".

Romans 8:23
Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies .

Paul said this was something THEY were eagerly awaiting....and equates the "redemption of our bodies" with " our adoption as sons". We know this happened in 70AD when Jesus returned. That is when the "adoption" occurred and therefore that is ALSO when the "redemption of our bodies" occurred. THere is no resurrection mentioned here.

Philippians 3:21
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Again, no mention of "resurrection" here. It's talking about "transformation" of their lowly bodies to be like Jesus "glorious BODY". Why doesn't Paul say " will RESURRECT our lowly bodies "? We've already seen over and over and over how Paul referred to Jesus' "BODY".....and it was NEVER in reference to His physical body....but always in reference to His SPIRITUAL body..or the "body" of believers. At Jesus return He was going to "transform" (not resurrect) the believer's "lowly bodies" into the true "body of Christ"......making them ALL into ONE eternally.

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you ARE the body of Christ , and each one of you is a part of it.
Romans 12:5
so in Christ we who are many form one body ,and each member belongs to all the others
Ephesians 4:25
Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body .

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Paul, a man, a male, said that 'in Christ' there is neither male, female, Jew, Gentile, but the One New Man, and we are 'in Christ, in Spirit', as the One Spirit, but Paul never pretended to be at that goal of having arrived at the regenerated body, glorified [no man will remain on this earth after that goal is reached until this earth is regenerated with the heavens after the thousand year Sabbath rest],Paul pressed toward it, that mark of the perfect, completed, regenerated man.

Paul declared that He was a man, a Jew, of the tribe of Benjamin, and declared those facts after he was converted and added to the One Spirit; the body of Christ; the Church.

Acts 21:39; But Paul said, I am a man [which am] a Jew of Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
And so it goes: rightly dividing the Word of God leaves no room for the false teachings of preterism.

But in the regeneration, there will be no more name of 'Adam', named, nor male, female, Jew, or Gentile, but Israel, the One New Man, the Church; and the bride; and the Sons of God; perfected in spirit [adopted in His One Spirit], in body because we receive the cleansing of our being, in our soul.

The hope of the Church is the glorious appearing of our LORD and soon coming groom, to regenerate our mortal bodies in His New Man image and to take us to Himself.
If we depart these bodies of adamic clay before the resurrection and rapture of the Believers in Christ, then we go to be with the LORD and all the dead in Christ in paradise above to wait for our resurrection and rregenerated bodies from this dust, but no one gets the regenerated body until we all do, in the 'gathering' which is the first harvest that Pentecost represents, that is coming at the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the regeneration of the living saints, who will all receive the regenerated bodies together and go into the Presence in the temple and remain there for our week of consecration as priests, in our new "garments", our regenerated bodies, as Leviticus 8 speaks of as a type, a shadow.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Paul, a man, a male, said that 'in Christ' there is neither male, female, Jew, Gentile, but the One New Man, and we are 'in Christ, in Spirit', as the One Spirit, but Paul never pretended to be at that goal of having arrived at the regenerated body, glorified [no man will remain on this earth after that goal is reached until this earth is regenerated with the heavens after the thousand year Sabbath rest],Paul pressed toward it, that mark of the perfect, completed, regenerated man.

Paul declared that He was a man, a Jew, of the tribe of Benjamin, and declared those facts after he was converted and added to the One Spirit; the body of Christ; the Church.

Acts 21:39; But Paul said, I am a man [which am] a Jew of Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
And so it goes: rightly dividing the Word of God leaves no room for the false teachings of preterism.

But in the regeneration, there will be no more name of 'Adam', named, nor male, female, Jew, or Gentile, but Israel, the One New Man, the Church; and the bride; and the Sons of God; perfected in spirit [adopted in His One Spirit], in body because we receive the cleansing of our being, in our soul.

The hope of the Church is the glorious appearing of our LORD and soon coming groom, to regenerate our mortal bodies in His New Man image and to take us to Himself.
If we depart these bodies of adamic clay before the resurrection and rapture of the Believers in Christ, then we go to be with the LORD and all the dead in Christ in paradise above to wait for our resurrection and rregenerated bodies from this dust, but no one gets the regenerated body until we all do, in the 'gathering' which is the first harvest that Pentecost represents, that is coming at the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the regeneration of the living saints, who will all receive the regenerated bodies together and go into the Presence in the temple and remain there for our week of consecration as priests, in our new "garments", our regenerated bodies, as Leviticus 8 speaks of as a type, a shadow.

What Body was Resurrected

Paul DOES say that there is ONLY one body. I believe it is that ONE body that is being spoken about when "resurrection" of the "dead in Christ" is talked about. It is that "body" that will rise...not a physical "body".

Romans 12:5
so in Christ we who are many form one body , and each member belongs to all the others.
1 Corinthians 12:12
The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body . So it is with Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:20
As it is, there are many parts, but one body .
Ephesians 2:16
and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body , and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—
Ephesians 4:25
Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body .
Colossians 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

It is the dead "body" of sin that has to be resurrected:

Romans 6:6
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—

We know our physical "body" isn't done away with when we are saved

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin , yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Is your PHYSICAL "body" dead because of your sin?

1 Corinthians 15:35
[The Resurrection Body ] But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?"

Notice Paul says "body" and not "bodies" ONE body.

1 Corinthians 15:42
So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable.

Notice again the singular "body" and not "bodies".

1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body .If there is a natural body , there is also a spiritual body .

Again, Paul continues to use the singular "body" and not "bodies". He doesn't say "there are natural BODIES and there are also spiritual BODIES"

2 Corinthians 4:10
We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body .

Paul says " OUR body"....why doesn't he say "OUR BODIES"...he's obviously talking about many people by using "OUR"....but he STILL uses the singular "BODY" and not "bodies". OUR ONE BODY.

2 Corinthians 4:11
For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body .

Again, Paul says OUR mortal BODY (singular)...why not "bodies".

Then notice Paul's usage of of the term "body" when he's referring to his OWN PERSONAL PHYSICAL BODY as opposed to this OTHER "body" he's been talking about :

THE "body"
Philippians 1:24
but it is more necessary for you that I remain in THE body .
His PERSONAL body
Galatians 6:17
Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on MY body the marks of Jesus.
Philippians 1:20
I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in MY body ,whether by life or by death.

Paul referring to his listeners PHYSICAL "body" or "bodies"

1 Thessalonians 4:4
that each of you should learn to control his OWN body in a way that is holy and honorable.
Romans 7:5
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in OUR bodies ,(notice the plural) so that we bore fruit for death.


And we see in this next verse that Paul used the term "body" to refer to a GROUP of people

1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

What do you think Peter means here by "judged according to men in regard to THE BODY"?

1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body ,but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Then let's look at the 3 scriptures where Paul talks about "bodies" where people say it is referring to the "resurrection"

Romans 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

No mention of resurrection here. Paul is talking to his listeners about something that had already happened to them "if the spirit is living in you".

Romans 8:23
Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies .

Paul said this was something THEY were eagerly awaiting....and equates the "redemption of our bodies" with " our adoption as sons". We know this happened in 70AD when Jesus returned. That is when the "adoption" occurred and therefore that is ALSO when the "redemption of our bodies" occurred. THere is no resurrection mentioned here.

Philippians 3:21
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Again, no mention of "resurrection" here. It's talking about "transformation" of their lowly bodies to be like Jesus "glorious BODY". Why doesn't Paul say " will RESURRECT our lowly bodies "? We've already seen over and over and over how Paul referred to Jesus' "BODY".....and it was NEVER in reference to His physical body....but always in reference to His SPIRITUAL body..or the "body" of believers. At Jesus return He was going to "transform" (not resurrect) the believer's "lowly bodies" into the true "body of Christ"......making them ALL into ONE eternally.

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you ARE the body of Christ , and each one of you is a part of it.
Romans 12:5
so in Christ we who are many form one body ,and each member belongs to all the others
Ephesians 4:25
Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body .

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna,
Ad 70 had nothing to do with the Church of Christ and the end of one system and the beginning of another. And the glory departed the temple that solomon built and never returned to the second temple nor to it when Herod remodeled it.

You should check the history of the temples out, cause you wrongly interpret Hebrews, and the temple that was 'then standing', which was Solomon's, as the temple that Herod remodeled and that was destroyed in 70 AD.
Preterism distorts history and the Word of God to come up with it's false doctrines.


The glory was given to the Church on the day of Pentecost, ten days after Jesus Christ ascended into heaven and received that glory, as the Firstborn of this earth -which He was from the incarnation, but not glorified, as He ransomed the earth to receive the glory as High King and High Priest, 'Firstborn', over it.


The Church was established on that day of Pentecost, with the twelve apostles and the 120 in the upper room, who were waiting for the promise of the Father, the glory that was to come.

That day of Pentecost signaled the beginning of the foundation layer of the house of God, which Jesus Christ as the New Man, is the chief foundation Stone of, and the Father was so anxious for the New Beginning of the New Creation human house for His dwelling place that the Holy spirit came as a rushing mighty wind and filled them all!
Talk about New Beginnings! He was most eager to begin a New House and showed us so in the mighty rushing wind joyfully coming to indwell the first layers of His New Man house for His glory.
But we are only spiritually added to the house, the final house is not finished and will not be until all receive their regenerated bodies and are glorified with the glory of the Presence of God.



The Holy Spirit added three thousand souls to the Church that first day, and continued to add those to the One Church who were being saved daily.

The temple that fell in 70 AD had nothing, nada, to do with the Church, which was already four decades old at that time.
Preterism is totally false in claiming the Church had anything to do with the temple's destruction or that it in any way, shape, form, or manner, began at that time!
The Gospel of the coming kingdom and the need to repent and be converted had already gone around the world -even to the western continents and China before the Jewish temple was destroyed in 70 AD, and the Gospel of the coming kingdom is continuing to go around the world in each generation, and shall, until He come to take His great power and reign over this earth for the thousand years called the Peace, or the Sabbath, of this earth.
To have a part in His kingdom we must be born from above -and that is the Gospel.
His kingdom is coming and every tare shall be destroyed every seed of the wicked one will be removed and be found no more, and cast into the everlasting fire; and this earth will have great and glorious peace for one thousand years and greatly prosper while families increase fromt he Blessed of the LORD who enter it as those unregenerated in body but regenerated in spirit redeemed of the LORD.



Nothing about the temple at all has to do with the Church in this Church age!

 

[Hidden Manna]

Hidden Manna,
Ad 70 had nothing to do with the Church of Christ and the end of one system and the beginning of another. And the glory departed the temple that solomon built and never returned to the second temple nor to it when Herod remodeled it.

Yes it did and history has proven it, the temple was destroyed and the jews were scattered forever ending the old covenant system of sacrifices, no temple no sacrifices in the way to deceive the nations back into the old covenant. Marked the begining of the Kingdom of Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords.

Soloman's temple was the first temple and was destroyed by the Babylonians when the people of Israel when to Babylon captivity for 70 years. Then Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel all prophesied that the temple would be rebuilt which it was and became know as Herod's temple.

Now there are two other temple mentioned in scripture: first was Jesus Himself.

John 2:18 So the Jews answered and said to Him, "What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?"19 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."20 Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?"21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.

And then there is the heavenly temple which all earthly temple foreshadowed as mention in Heb.9 and where Christ blood was put on the mercy seat.

You should check the history of the temples out, cause you wrongly interpret Hebrews, and the temple that was 'then standing', which was Solomon's, as the temple that Herod remodeled and that was destroyed in 70 AD.
Preterism distorts history and the Word of God to come up with it's false doctrines.

I have never meet a preterist yet that has said the temple mentioned in Hebrews speaking of the heavenly tabernacle as being Herod's temple that was destroyed in AD70. Did I make a mistake or something to make you think that was what I meant or did you just misunderstand something?

Futurist grossly distorts history and the Word of God to come up with it's false doctrines, not preterist.

The glory was given to the Church on the day of Pentecost, ten days after Jesus Christ ascended into heaven and received that glory, as the Firstborn of this earth -which He was from the incarnation, but not glorified, as He ransomed the earth to receive the glory as High King and High Priest, 'Firstborn', over it.

You quoting things in a way that do not make any sense when you said: but not glorified, as He ransomed the earth to receive the glory as High King and High Priest, 'Firstborn', over it.

Could you please restate that in a way that does.

The Church was established on that day of Pentecost, with the twelve apostles and the 120 in the upper room, who were waiting for the promise of the Father, the glory that was to come.

That day of Pentecost signaled the beginning of the foundation layer of the house of God, which Jesus Christ as the New Man, is the chief foundation Stone of, and the Father was so anxious for the New Beginning of the New Creation human house for His dwelling place that the Holy spirit came as a rushing mighty wind and filled them all!
Talk about New Beginnings! He was most eager to begin a New House and showed us so in the mighty rushing wind joyfully coming to indwell the first layers of His New Man house for His glory.

I agree

But we are only spiritually added to the house, the final house is not finished and will not be until all receive their regenerated bodies and are glorified with the glory of the Presence of God.

I disagree but believe that we are only spiritually added to the house and we are glorified with the glory of the Presence of God. Regenerated physical human bodies is not scripturual as I have shown why in the last posting I made with what body means in scripture. Did you read it, if so please address those issues and stop just this non-sense of regenerated physical human bodies

The Holy Spirit added three thousand souls to the Church that first day, and continued to add those to the One Church who were being saved daily.

The temple that fell in 70 AD had nothing, nada, to do with the Church, which was already four decades old at that time.
Preterism is totally false in claiming the Church had anything to do with the temple's destruction or that it in any way, shape, form, or manner, began at that time!

I agree and so would all othe preterist that the Church had nothing to do with the temples destruction. If fact the Church took Jesus warning and fleed to Petra where they were saved from the great tribulation that came upon the Jews who were left in Jerusalem.

The Gospel of the coming kingdom and the need to repent and be converted had already gone around the world -even to the western continents and China before the Jewish temple was destroyed in 70 AD, and the Gospel of the coming kingdom is continuing to go around the world in each generation, and shall,

I agree but it shall forever as long as people are still alive. When they die physically the opportunity ends for them if they have not repented and they die the second death after there own personal judgment.

until He come to take His great power and reign over this earth for the thousand years called the Peace, or the Sabbath, of this earth.

Please show us just one single scripture that says that the thousand years are called the Peace, or the Sabbath, of this earth.

Sabbath day foreshadowed resting or abiding in Christ not the 1000 years.

If the 1000 years is to be taken literally what happens after that? Does Jesus Christ then end His reign as King of kings ?

You have nada moot a thing here as truth. Furustic fantasy that all folks.

Nothing about the temple at all has to do with the Church in this Church age!

I agree because I know what you mean, however Church age is not even mentioned in scripture. This term comes from the traditional teachings from men. The scripture speaking of the everlasting covenant which shall never end.

All this doom and gloom non-sense is about the age we now living in is not at all the truth. The truth is is that we are now and have been for the last 1900 years or so been living in that age that was to come to the first century Church and this age started in AD70 and here is what foretold it.

Luke 21:20 " But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.22 "For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 "And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25 " And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;26 "men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.27 "Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna, your posts are too long to respond to all in one, and I don't read the books you post from other preterist authors.
Keep a point short so that I can respond to it, instead of just picking one point or so, as I do, and leaving the book -and whatever I missed if you added anything of your own.


At least Seven temples in Scripture: but the First and the Last are inner houses in the greater temple that is YHWH, in the beginning, and in the end is 'God and the Lamb'.

1 Adam is the first house of YHWH; meant to be an inner house, a 'Holy of Holies' was to be built of the human being 'stones', the sons of God who were to come forth in the multiplying of the male and female Adam persons.

2 The heavenly temple that Adam was to be the Holy of Holies of, which temple was prepared in the six days of creation -and it is a foreshadowing of the redemption to come in the New Man for all in Adam -whosoever will.

3 the tabernacle in the wilderness

4 Solomon's temple

5 the rebuilt temple which Herod remodeled

6 Ezekiel's temple that Messiah shall build in Jerusalem when He returns as Son of Man to reign for the Sabbath Peace of this earth, the Last Day of a thousand years.
And it is not truth to say that temple has been built -it is outright dishonest to say that it has been built! -no one who believes Scripture can honestly claim such a thing! Only by denying and twisting Scripture in terrible ways can a preterist claim that Ezekiel's temple has been built.

7 The Church, individually and corporately, being built as the final Israel, the New Jerusalem, as the Holy of Holies, the inner temple, and the final house for the Father's dwelling, in the Temple that is God and the Lamb, in that regenerated new heavens and new Earth.

 

[Hidden Manna]

What Body was Resurrected

Paul DOES say that there is ONLY one body. I believe it is that ONE body that is being spoken about when "resurrection" of the "dead in Christ" is talked about. It is that "body" that will rise...not a physical "body".

Romans 12:5
so in Christ we who are many form one body , and each member belongs to all the others.
1 Corinthians 12:12
The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body . So it is with Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:20
As it is, there are many parts, but one body .
Ephesians 2:16
and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body , and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—
Ephesians 4:25
Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body .
Colossians 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

It is the dead "body" of sin that has to be resurrected:

Romans 6:6
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—

We know our physical "body" isn't done away with when we are saved

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin , yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Is your PHYSICAL "body" dead because of your sin?

1 Corinthians 15:35
[The Resurrection Body ] But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?"

Notice Paul says "body" and not "bodies" ONE body.

1 Corinthians 15:42
So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable.

Notice again the singular "body" and not "bodies".

1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body .If there is a natural body , there is also a spiritual body .

Again, Paul continues to use the singular "body" and not "bodies". He doesn't say "there are natural BODIES and there are also spiritual BODIES"

2 Corinthians 4:10
We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body .

Paul says " OUR body"....why doesn't he say "OUR BODIES"...he's obviously talking about many people by using "OUR"....but he STILL uses the singular "BODY" and not "bodies". OUR ONE BODY.

2 Corinthians 4:11
For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body .

Again, Paul says OUR mortal BODY (singular)...why not "bodies".

Then notice Paul's usage of of the term "body" when he's referring to his OWN PERSONAL PHYSICAL BODY as opposed to this OTHER "body" he's been talking about :

THE "body"
Philippians 1:24
but it is more necessary for you that I remain in THE body .
His PERSONAL body
Galatians 6:17
Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on MY body the marks of Jesus.
Philippians 1:20
I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in MY body ,whether by life or by death.

Paul referring to his listeners PHYSICAL "body" or "bodies"

1 Thessalonians 4:4
that each of you should learn to control his OWN body in a way that is holy and honorable.
Romans 7:5
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in OUR bodies ,(notice the plural) so that we bore fruit for death.


And we see in this next verse that Paul used the term "body" to refer to a GROUP of people

1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you.

What do you think Peter means here by "judged according to men in regard to THE BODY"?

1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body ,but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Then let's look at the 3 scriptures where Paul talks about "bodies" where people say it is referring to the "resurrection"

Romans 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

No mention of resurrection here. Paul is talking to his listeners about something that had already happened to them "if the spirit is living in you".

Romans 8:23
Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies .

Paul said this was something THEY were eagerly awaiting....and equates the "redemption of our bodies" with " our adoption as sons". We know this happened in 70AD when Jesus returned. That is when the "adoption" occurred and therefore that is ALSO when the "redemption of our bodies" occurred. THere is no resurrection mentioned here.

Philippians 3:21
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Again, no mention of "resurrection" here. It's talking about "transformation" of their lowly bodies to be like Jesus "glorious BODY". Why doesn't Paul say " will RESURRECT our lowly bodies "? We've already seen over and over and over how Paul referred to Jesus' "BODY".....and it was NEVER in reference to His physical body....but always in reference to His SPIRITUAL body..or the "body" of believers. At Jesus return He was going to "transform" (not resurrect) the believer's "lowly bodies" into the true "body of Christ"......making them ALL into ONE eternally.

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you ARE the body of Christ , and each one of you is a part of it.
Romans 12:5
so in Christ we who are many form one body ,and each member belongs to all the others
Ephesians 4:25
Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body .

This was not from a book, it was from a posting from this forum by EP which no one has or can refute and I stand by it 100%

I do not read books because of eye strain and migraines, what I do read I read little at a time or suffer. Maybe if your view is right I'll get regenerated eyes that can handle reading more.

As for now I stick with what I see as the truth that is in the preterist view. Right now if I found out the preterist view to be a lie I would give up on scripture and everything mentioned in it totally.

I hang on by what I now see as the truth that all scripture was fullfilled in AD70 and that we are now with Christ as He manifests Himself through those who believe in Him coming in the glory of the Father which is in Spirit and in truth.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I've said it before and used lots of Scripture that lays it out very nicely,, Hidden Manna,
After the Last Day, the Day of Peace, ruled by the Prince of Peace, who is the LORD of the Sabbath; that Sabbath Rest for this earth of the Last sevens of thousands; is the eighth day, the New Beginning!

The eighth day is signed, for just one, in the sign of circumcision, as the cutting off of all seed, in Adam, given to Abraham, who was the first to receive the promise of Life in the New Spirit by the name change from Abram to Abra -H- am.

No one in Adam will have a part in the regenerated heavens and earth: all in Adam will be cut off forever from the inheritance and all in Adam will be exo -out! not in the regenerated heavens and earth;exo the regenerated heavens and earth, but in the outer darkness, in the lake of fire, as cast aways forever, in the second death, the permanent separation from the Life, in the Living Spirit.

I did a lot of proof Scriptures on the Last Day as the Sabbath Rest before, to refute preterism, but I can go on the merry go round again, I suppose, and repost them by researching them out again -cause I don't know where I put all that work at, on these particular threads that I have posted to refute preterism on. -but later, not now.

Job particularly understood the Redeemer standing on the earth in the Last Day, and the Last Day was what He said, in the original, cause He was familiar with Enoch's writings which were referenced several times.

"I know that my Redeemer lives and that He shall stand at the last day upon the earth, and I will see Him with my own eyes in my own flesh after my flesh is destroyed".

Job 19:25-27;
For I know [that] my redeemer liveth, and [that] he shall stand at the latter [last] [day] upon the earth:
And [though] after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; [though] my reins be consumed within me.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

This was not from a book, it was from a posting from this forum by EP which no one has or can refute and I stand by it 100%

I do not read books because of eye strain and migraines, what I do read I read little at a time or suffer. Maybe if your view is right I'll get regenerated eyes that can handle reading more.

As for now I stick with what I see as the truth that is in the preterist view. Right now if I found out the preterist view to be a lie I would give up on scripture and everything mentioned in it totally.

I hang on by what I now see as the truth that all scripture was fullfilled in AD70 and that we are now with Christ as He manifests Himself through those who believe in Him coming in the glory of the Father which is in Spirit and in truth.

You may not read books now, Hidden Manna, but you have come to believe books written by preterists that you have read, and you post long passages from them and sometimes you give the authors and sometimes -at least once that I found, you did not -and you did not reply to my charge of plagarism on that to you.

Why do you hang your faith on preterism? Jesus Christ is the Truth, Himself, and He is not now reigning in earth and His will is not now being done in earth as it is in heaven. He in fact taught us to pray that His Kingdom come, His will be done, in earth as it is in heaven.

He particularly said that He is going to restore the kingdom to Israel.
And we who make mention of the LORD are to give Him no rest till He stablish Jerusalem a praise 'in the earth'.

You will have regenerated eyes, with no mutations, in your regenerated body, for Jesus promised us that even the very hair on our head is numbered and will not 'perish' if we are born from above, and all our bodily members were written in His Book of Life before the foundation of the world, and we are very precious to Him because He made us, and He will resurrect our bodies from the dust in regenerated elements of the New Creation -with no mutations.

I'm sorry for your eye sight. Growing old is a pain but the promise of the regenerated body is a sure thing, if we are born from above.

Are you born again?
Do you know that you have the Spirit of Christ?
The thief on the cross did not understand much, but He knew that Jesus was coming into His kingdom on earth and for His confession of faith He was redeemed and went to be in Paradise witht he LORD that day.

And are you a male or a female Adam person?

 

[Hidden Manna]

You may not read books now, Hidden Manna, but you have come to believe books written by preterists that you have read, and you post long passages from them and sometimes you give the authors and sometimes -at least once that I found, you did not -and you did not reply to my charge of plagarism on that to you.

I have copied many good postings from preterist with user names and asked for their permmision to use their postings, that mean nothing to people who have written books and make their living selling God's word of truth for profit. Sometimes these user named people may have quoted from other sources I do not know every case. I have had to correct many spelling mistakes though so I know most of it was just written for the tread.

Are you all for selling the gospel for profit? Do you support those who do, I'm do not and never will. If truth belongs to God it is His to freely give and as far as your charge of plagarism against me ask me if I care. My mission in life is to get as many Church goers out there to stop going to these places where they get all this false information about futurism that makes Jesus look like a liar and start a new fellowship of true seekers of the truth.

Isaiah 55:1 "Ho! Everyone who thirsts, Come to the waters; And you who have no money, Come, buy and eat. Yes, come, buy wine and milk Without money and without price. * 2 Why do you spend money for [what is] not bread, And your wages for [what] does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat [what is] good, And let your soul delight itself in abundance. * 3 Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you -- The sure mercies of David.

Why do you hang your faith on preterism? Jesus Christ is the Truth, Himself, and He is not now reigning in earth and His will is not now being done in earth as it is in heaven. He in fact taught us to pray that His Kingdom come, His will be done, in earth as it is in heaven.

My faith hangs in Christ and He spoke the truth and I find the truth in the preterist view of eschatology. That does not make me born again believing in Christ does.

Jesus also said His Kingdom is not of this world and that it comes without observation and that it is within you. I do not have to look for what you are expecting, no way, it's not scripturual.

He particularly said that He is going to restore the kingdom to Israel.
And we who make mention of the LORD are to give Him no rest till He stablish Jerusalem a praise 'in the earth'.

Israel Reborn or Judged

I never thought of the Jews in our day fulfilling any Bible prophecy because they are not the biblical Jews or Israel that is in the Bible.

1948 Israel?
The reestablishment of the state of Israel in 1948 is considered to be the most important sign that the second coming is near. One of the great problems with this dispensational view is that there is no rebirth of Israel or rebuilt temple mentioned anywhere in the New Testament. Nor is the supposed re-gathering of the Jews to their homeland. This is puzzling, because if the rebirth of Israel is the “super sign,” you would think it would be very prominent in prophetic passages such as Matt. 24 and Revelation. It simply is not.

There is only one passage that dispensationalists point to that they say speaks of the rebirth of Israel and that is in Matt. 24.
“Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.”

The thought is that the fig tree represents a re-born Israel. However, other passages in the New Testament cast doubt upon this interpretation. In Matthew 24’s parallel passage in Luke 21 Jesus says to “look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near (Luke 21:29-30).” Are we talking about the rebirth of many nations here? It is far more logical to assume that Jesus was merely using the fig tree(s) as an object lesson.

Moreover, other passages that could associate Israel with a fig tree always speak of judgment and never of any sort of rebirth.
“Now in the morning, as He returned to the city, He was hungry. And seeing a fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it but leaves, and said to it, ‘Let no fruit grow on you ever again.’ Immediately the fig tree withered away.

And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, ‘How did the fig tree wither away so soon?’

So Jesus answered and said to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ it will be done.’” Matthew 21:18-21

Most scholars believe this particular fig tree did represent Old Covenant Israel. It was about to pass away and never bear fruit again. Jesus was not just mad because he wanted some figs and could not get any. Moreover, never again means never again.

Furthermore, when Jesus said that if they had faith and did not doubt, they would not only do what was done to the fig tree, but they could also say to this mountain “Be removed and be cast into the sea,” and it would be done. Was Jesus given them permission to tear up actual mountains and cast them into the sea? No, He was talking about something spiritual.

For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.” And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:18-24

If they had faith, they would see the Old Covenant which was represented by Mount Sinai torn up and cast away. And indeed it was.

Let us consider another parable with a fig tree.

“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’” (Luke 9:3-9)

Obviously, the fig tree is not a nation about to be reborn, but one that was about to be judged, and indeed it was. It is interesting that Jesus probably told this parable in the third year of His ministry.
Next we must look at the covenantal implications of the rebirth of Israel. God’s promise to give the Jews the land of Israel as their inheritance was an Old Covenant promise. This begs the question is the Old Covenant still in effect? If we say it passed away with the coming of the New Covenant, then so did the promise of the land.

However, if we say that it is still in effect for the Jews, we still run into problems. In the scriptures the promise that the Jews would hold the land of Israel was conditional. Deuteronomy 28 tells us “If you are not careful to do all the words of this law … you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it, And the LORD will scatter you among all the peoples, from one end of the earth to the other. …” If the people who now live in Israel are not keeping the Law of Moses (and they can’t be. The Mosaic Law ceased to be observed in AD. 70, and it has never been observed in full since.), how can we say that God has given them the land back?

Even if you say that God’s covenant with Abraham to give the Jews the physical land of Israel is still in effect, look what the Bible says are God’s conditions for remembering His promise.

“But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me, and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt— then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember; I will remember the land, Leviticus 26:40-42.

Did the Jews meet this condition before the 1948 re-gathering? No! This dispensational view essentially makes God a liar!

You will have regenerated eyes, with no mutations, in your regenerated body, for Jesus promised us that even the very hair on our head is numbered and will not 'perish' if we are born from above, and all our bodily members were written in His Book of Life before the foundation of the world, and we are very precious to Him because He made us, and He will resurrect our bodies from the dust in regenerated elements of the New Creation -with no mutations.

I'm sorry for your eye sight. Growing old is a pain but the promise of the regenerated body is a sure thing, if we are born from above.

I was blind but now I see with the eyes of understanding and hears that hear what the Spirit is saying. I now have a spiritual body that does not need to physically see.

Are you born again?
Do you know that you have the Spirit of Christ?

Yes and yes

The thief on the cross did not understand much, but He knew that Jesus was coming into His kingdom on earth and for His confession of faith He was redeemed and went to be in Paradise witht he LORD that day.

The bible do not say that Jesus was coming into His kingdom on earth you do, or that is your understanding of it. That do not make it the truth just because the thought belongs to you now does it.

And are you a male or a female Adam person?

Niether because I am noot a Adam person, I am in Christ, I died with Him on the cross and rose from the dead with Him, but in the flesh I am male.

 

[bryanhilton]

Okay, I'll admit I didn't sift through all the posts, but I was curious about if the people who believe we are living in the millial age and don't look for the rapture of the Church forgot about several passages of Scripture:

1. We are not appointed to God's wrath (i.e. the tribulation):
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
1 Thessalonians 5:9
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The 1 world government under rule of the antichrist has not taken place:
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
Revelation 13:15-18
15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

3. Also Revelation 11:7-12
The 2 Witnesses (in verse 10 it says they [the 2 witnesses] tormented them that dwell on the earth).
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

There is a known Day and an unknown Day.

Jesus describes the unknown Day in Matthew 24:
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

and I feel that people who dwell on the earth will be able to count down the days until Christ returns with His people because the Bible clearly states that the tribulation period will last 7 years and that halfway through the 7 years the antichrist will break the treaty with Israel and start the persecution. After 3 1/2 years Jesus will return and smite the antichrist and the false prophet and set up His kingdom on earth for 1000 years.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Okay, I'll admit I didn't sift through all the posts, but I was curious about if the people who believe we are living in the millial age and don't look for the rapture of the Church forgot about several passages of Scripture:

1. We are not appointed to God's wrath (i.e. the tribulation):
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
1 Thessalonians 5:9
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The 1 world government under rule of the antichrist has not taken place:
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
Revelation 13:15-18
15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

3. Also Revelation 11:7-12
The 2 Witnesses (in verse 10 it says they [the 2 witnesses] tormented them that dwell on the earth).
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

There is a known Day and an unknown Day.

Jesus describes the unknown Day in Matthew 24:
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

and I feel that people who dwell on the earth will be able to count down the days until Christ returns with His people because the Bible clearly states that the tribulation period will last 7 years and that halfway through the 7 years the antichrist will break the treaty with Israel and start the persecution. After 3 1/2 years Jesus will return and smite the antichrist and the false prophet and set up His kingdom on earth for 1000 years.

Try seeing it this way: That all scripture was fullfilled in AD70 when the temple was destroyed as Jesus said it would be in Luke 21:20-24

That was the end the the then known world "heaven and earth" of judahism that was under the law of sin and death.

First off you need to take a serious look at Daniel 9:27 where you get this 7 years of antichrist. That scripture is not referring to antichrist, there is no 2000 year gap, it speaks of Jesus Christ the Messiah and His death in the middle of the week. It was Jesus who came and confirmed the covenant with Israel and it was Jesus who ended all sacrfices. It time to get back to the bible and stop listing to traditional teachings that come from men.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna,
You are in the flesh of Adam, and according to Adam, in the flesh you will die -unless you are raptured first: those bodies of the raptured living Believers do not sleep the sleep of death in the elements of this present creation.

Well -I am a female Adam, married to a male Adam, and we are both adopted in the One New Man Spirit, but we have not received our regenerated bodies nor have we died as male, female, and been separated by death as man and wife.

When we are regenerated in body and are no more in Adam, in the body of Adamic flesh, then we who are in Christ, now in Spirit, only, will be in Christ in the New Man flesh: and we will have each other, on occaision, for tea, and maybe plan a garden or two together: no molds, no lack of water to water, no pests to destroy, or disease to waste our gardens -and you can come for tea too -if truly you do not deny His name and are truly adopted into the One New Man and are regenerated in body with us, then, and -we plan to have as much fun in fellowship in our regenerated bodies as we do in our adamic bodies, as man and wife.
We will have forever as friends, in fellowship in the One New Man, as sons of God in Christ, the Israel of God.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Both the dead in Adam and the living in Christ will be resurrected in their own body, and the body parts were all written in the Book of Life of each person who was ever going to come into their being, in Adam, and all to come into their being in Adam were written in the book of Life as ‘Adam’ -the firstborn and his seed, to be human sons of God, a dwelling place for the Presence of glory, of YHWH.

We died to that son-ship in Adam, in the fall of our firstborn, but the New Man, YHWH of hosts from heaven who is come as human being ‘brother’ to Adam, as his Redeemer-Kinsman, avenger, and ‘groom’ of the ‘barren widow’ who bore no ‘living sons’ to God, after all, will regenerate our adamic bodies in His own image in the resurrection if we are truly born again, adopted in Spirit in the One New Man Spirit, the Spirit of Christ.

Our own individual bodies’ members are all written in the book of life and not one part will be missing or be mutated because of sin and corruption, in the regeneration of our own bodies, regenerated from the elements of this present creation.


Luke 12:4-7;
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Matthew 10: But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.


Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them.

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.

In this life only will 'members' of our 'bodies' 'perish', but in the regeneration, in the adoption of our bodies, all our members will be regenerated according to the pattern written in the book of life for us -our DNA is recorded!
If we are blotted out of the Book of Life then we will not be 'regenerated' in the resurrection, for all in the Book of Life belong to Jesus -He bought the Book, as title deed to earth -and it's dominion, and it's 'living souls'- by His blood of Ransom -and He now owns the earth that the Adam, as son of God and [to be] multiplied sons of God [from his seed], were given, and He's coming to take possession of His purchase and rule this earth for the thousand years of Peace, it's own true 'Sabbath Rest' of the thousand years, the seventh millennium of its existence.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Okay, I'll admit I didn't sift through all the posts, but I was curious about if the people who believe we are living in the millial age and don't look for the rapture of the Church forgot about several passages of Scripture:

1. We are not appointed to God's wrath (i.e. the tribulation):
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
1 Thessalonians 5:9
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The 1 world government under rule of the antichrist has not taken place:
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
Revelation 13:15-18
15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

3. Also Revelation 11:7-12
The 2 Witnesses (in verse 10 it says they [the 2 witnesses] tormented them that dwell on the earth).
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

There is a known Day and an unknown Day.

Jesus describes the unknown Day in Matthew 24:
(taken from Biblegateway.com)
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

and I feel that people who dwell on the earth will be able to count down the days until Christ returns with His people because the Bible clearly states that the tribulation period will last 7 years and that halfway through the 7 years the antichrist will break the treaty with Israel and start the persecution. After 3 1/2 years Jesus will return and smite the antichrist and the false prophet and set up His kingdom on earth for 1000 years.

They not only forget about them, they deny that they are true for us who are living, waiting for the Blessed Hope, the appearing of our LORD; and they say that the resurrection is past, overthrowing the faith of some.

You can add these Scriptures to your list -check the original wording of them in the concordance:
Psalm 75:2,3; When I rapture [laqach] the Church [congregation], then I will judge in 'equity", the inhabitants of the earth are "dissolved" [faint hearted];

Isaiah 26:19-21 & chapter 27;
In those passages, the resurrection of the dead in Christ from the dust of this present creation and the rapture of the living saints and the call of them to come, enter into their chambers and shut their doors behind them until the indignation be past, for the LORD will come out of His place and punish the serpent and restore Israel is clearly seen.

In Numbers 10:1-7, the law, or oracle, of the two silver trumpets, made according to the pattern of the heavenly trumpets, is told, and in that law, we learn that the two, sounded two times, is the call, which has no set time or feast or day to be sounded twice -it is at the whim of YHWH; to call the entire congregation [the Church] of YHWH to meet at the door of assembly.

Our door of assembly is in heaven, where the temple that Moses made all things according to the pattern of, is.

And when we are called to gather at the door by the two trumps sounding twice, at the last trump, we who are alive and remain are to be changed in body, and caught up together with the resurrected bodies of the dead in Christ from the dust of this earth, and we will be told to enter in and shut our doors behind us until the indignation is past.

Then, in Leviticus 8, in the oracles of the consecration of the priests, who washed and dressed in the priestly garments and were anointed and entered behind the doors of the temple and did not go out for an entire week, seven full days, of their consecration as priests, we learn from that oracle where we, who will put on our priestly garments of consecration =the new body, at the rapture, will be 'hiding' for the seven years {which is counted as one week], behind the shut doors of the temple in heaven, consecrated as priests in our new, holy outer garments of priesthood [the regenerated body]-for we have the underwear, now, who are born from above in Spirit.

And we will go no more out, but be made pillars in the temple on high and reign with Him from the heavenly realm that the principalities and powers and rulers of darkness rule from now, for they will be cast out by a war, when Michael and His angels fight with them and cast them down to earth during that seven years of great tribulation, and we will receive rulership as priests of God and as kings with Him, to rule over this earth for the thousand years from that realm, with those angels who never fell! -and never return to dwell on the earth's soil in houses here, again -until the heavens and the earth are regenerated and we return from God out of heaven as that finsihed city, the bride of Christ, the New Jerusalem, whose Chief foundation Stone is Christ, the New Man, and whose capstone will be the glory of the Presence of the Father; which is the glory that the New Man came to ransom us back for, that we lost in Adam, at the fall.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The temple that Solomon built was destroyed at the beginning of the indignation, when Babylon destroyed the temple that the glory of YHWH's Presence and the Ark of the Covenant had departed from.

The glory and the Ark never returned and the nation of Israel has not had Moses' Ark of the Covenant [though they made a replica, they had no 'Testimony' in it that was written by the hand of YHWH [the Word, Jesus Christ pre-incarnation] nor the staff of Aaron that budded nor the pot of Manna, nor has the Presence of glory met them at the Mercy Seat, since the beginning of the indignation, which will be ended at the last seven years -it is ongoing still, and will not end until Messiah returns and restores Israel as He has promised.

So; since the 'indignation' began at the Babylonian invasion and has not ended, and will have an end after the Church age ends, and Jesus promised that the Father had put the timing in His hands to restore the kingdom to Israel, which has never been restored since the glory departed at the beginning of the indignation, then the temple that Herod remodeled has no relation to the restoration of Israel, promised, when the glory shall return, as Ezekiel saw, in chapter 43:1-7:
and the preterist teaching that the temple that was destroyed in 70 AD has anything to do with the Church of God that began on the Day of Pentecost, four decades earlier, when He came to fill His New [Creation] house as the rushing mighty wind [in a measure of promise of the full glory that shall come when we are regenerated and the glory is fully bestowed upon us as the house of YHWH] is bogus, false, not Scriptural, and a complete opposite of the truth of God's Word.

The indignation began at the Babylonian invasion: it will have a last end, and everything in-between is just the ongoing indignation that began so very long ago to us, but not to God, frm His measure of time:

Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end [shall be].

last end 'achariyth; 1) after part, end a) end, issue, event b) latter time (prophetic for future time) c) posterity d) last, hindermost







AV - end 31, latter 12, last 7, posterity 3, reward 2,
hindermost 1, misc. 5; 61
The indignation began, is ongoing, and will have a last end after the Church is raptured.

 

[Hidden Manna]

They not only forget about them, they deny that they are true for us who are living, waiting for the Blessed Hope, the appearing of our LORD; and they say that the resurrection is past, overthrowing the faith of some.

"Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come." (II Thessalonians 2:1-2. New American Standard)

A similar passage is found in II Timothy 2:16-18. What is so challenging about these verses to the futurist view? Please ask yourself the following question: If the day of the Lord is, as you and I have always been traditionally taught, a time ending, universe destroying event, with people literally coming out of their graves how in the world could the Thessalonians ever have been convinced, as they obviously were, that the day of the Lord had already come?

All they had to do when any one would suggest such an idea was say "Look around! Time marches on. Obviously, the day of the Lord has not come!" The same could be said of the passage in II Timothy. If the resurrection is when all the physical graves are opened, when Jesus bodily, visibly descends on a cloud with the audible sound of a trumpet: how could any one convince those at Ephesus that it had already happened? The point is, Paul did not challenge the teaching concerning the nature of the day. He only challenged the chronology.)

The following is a comparison of how various translations render II Thessalonians 2:2.

1. KJV — is at hand.
2. ASV — is just at hand.
3. New KJV — as though ...had come.
4. RSV — has come
5. NASB — has come
6. New English Bible — is already here
7. NIV — has already come
8. Amplified — has (already) arrived and is here
9. Living New Testament — has already begun
10. McCord's New Testament Translation — has come
11. Williams — is already here
12. Beck — has already come
13. Good News For Modern Man — has come
14. Lamsa — at hand
15. Jerusalem — has already arrived
16. Berkeley — had arrived
17. Today's English Version — has come
18. Twentieth Century NT — is come
19. Emphasized NT, Rotherham — hath set in
20. Godspeed — had already come

Now here are my next two questions to you.

1) Please show me just one scripture by Paul to these saints were he says their understanding of the nature of the day of the Lord was wrong. Obviously, they did not have the same traditional literal physical concepts of a grave opening time ending when Jesus bodily, visibly descends on a cloud like many today. Please show me just one scripture were Paul tells them their spiritual nature of that day is wrong.

2) Please show me just one scripture by Paul to these saints that says the day of the Lord was not to happen in the same generation. Obviously, they did not have the same traditional ideas that Christ's would return thousands of years away.

Scripture please just scripture.

Please show me just one scripture by Paul to these saints were he says their understanding of the nature of the day of the Lord was wrong.

Please show me just one scripture by Paul to these saints that says the day of the Lord was not to happen in the same generation.

As we have seen here these saints never had the concept of a second coming 2.000 years away from the first. I will be looking forward to seeing your scripture.

 

[bryanhilton]

Try seeing it this way: That all scripture was fullfilled in AD70 when the temple was destroyed as Jesus said it would be in Luke 21:20-24

That was the end the the then known world "heaven and earth" of judahism that was under the law of sin and death.

First off you need to take a serious look at Daniel 9:27 where you get this 7 years of antichrist. That scripture is not referring to antichrist, there is no 2000 year gap, it speaks of Jesus Christ the Messiah and His death in the middle of the week. It was Jesus who came and confirmed the covenant with Israel and it was Jesus who ended all sacrfices. It time to get back to the bible and stop listing to traditional teachings that come from men.

Sorry dude, but Daniel 9:27 states:
(taken from biblegateway.com)
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' [a] In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Jesus didn't set up an abomination that causes desolation.