bryanhilton said:
Anyways, What about the one world government, all worshiping the beast and the prophet, the mark of the beast in the right hand and forehead, the temple being rebuilt (which I think I remember hearing that the sanhedran [not sure about the spelling] is working on now in Israel) and the antichrist ruling from the temple being kept from the hour of temptation that shall come upon the whole world, etc. etc. The world is crying out for a so called leader to provide peace and stability and to me it ties right in to Bible prophecy for the last days from what I have studied. Also, you never mentioned anything concerning what Jesus said in Matthew 24:15-15:
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains
What is your view of these things and where do you see it tying into the preterist views?
Lots of questions and I do got good answers for them all which if you were to read all my posting on this tread I'm sure you would get a good idea of that the real truth is behind all this end-time maddness which every generation since the cross has thought they were in.
How about this, you keep a record of all those questions and we can go though this all again but one thing at a time.
I'll start off with the Last Days and who the scriptures say were in them.
I'll be coping and pasting alot of the best, it saves me time as I only type with one finger per hand and have to hunt and peck otherwise.
The Biblical Last Days.
To understand out study of the last days and show how it could be possible, they were fulfilled in the last days of the Old Covenant there are three very important Biblical truths that must be established. First, the years from the cross to the desolation of Jewish system in Jerusalem in the A.D. 70 is the last days of the covenant of the law. It is stated time and again that the New Testament was written in the final years of the world that then was, otherwise known as the Old Covenant or Old Testament era (Heb. 1:2). This is the period of the last days, or end of the age, which saw its fulfillment.
By presenting Scripture in such a way, as to allow it to speak for itself, we will see that the New Testament is a collection of books written in the last days of the Old Covenant, all of which display the earnest expectation of the believers that the last days would be in their lifetimes.
Second, The faithfulness of God. Remember, God is faithful, II Peter 3:9. God is not a man that he should lie, Numbers 23:19. The faithfulness of God not only involves doing WHAT has been promised, it means doing it WHEN IT WAS PROMISED
Third, The time statements in the Bible. In Daniel 10-12 is a vision encompassing a period of time from 536 BC to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD; about 600 years. Two times in this text Daniel was told the appointed time is long and the vision refers to many days to come (10:1,14). Remember, this vision was relayed to Daniel from God. While God is not bound by time, he was communicating to man who is bound to time. God called this 600 year period of time long; he said it involved many days. God can most assuredly tell time and read a calendar!
Before we begin our study on the last days let me first say that while God is not bound by time like man when God speaks to man He speaks in a language that man can understand, thus when something is said to happens soon in mans time God is recognized as faithful and true to His promise when it is fulfilled. God gives us an illustrations of His true faithfulness in the event of the birth of Isaac. Isaac was born at the set time of which God promised Abraham (see Genesis 18:13-14; 21:1-3)
The Bible says it is inspired, II Timothy 3:16. The original word translated inspired literally means God breathed. The thought of the Bible being from God suggests that since God is perfect or infallible, and the Bible is from Him it ought to be infallible as well. Specifically, if the Bible made a promise that something would happen within a specified time frame, if that event did not happen when and as promised the Bibles claim to inspiration falls.
It is Jehovah himself that gave the criteria for determining whether a prophet was true or false; if a prophets prediction did not come true (within the time the prophet said it would) he was a false prophet, (see Deuteronomy 18:19-22) If God does not keep the when part of his promises, he has not kept his promise! The inspiration of the scriptures demands complete fulfillment of every aspect of Gods promises.
Gods years are endless; from everlasting to everlasting thou art God Psalms 90:2. Isaiah calls Jehovah the Father of eternity 9:6-9. However when God communicate with man, he uses (time statements) that man can understand. What are time statements?
The time statements are how God communicates with man in terms of Time. The time statements are literal imminent statements as seen in (Genesis 18:13-14; 21:1-3) The time statements refer to soon events of Jewish importance.
In Ezekiel 7, God through Ezekiel said the Day of the Lord was at hand. The Day of the Lord in this context was when God used Babylon to punish Israel for her sin. This is the concept of the Day of the Lord; it is not an end of time idea. It is when God used a nation to punish another as it related to his chosen people. In chapter 11 Israel responded to the threat of coming judgment. They insisted that although Ezekiel said it was at hand it was really not. It was time to build houses, not worry about judgment. One can almost hear some of those people: Well, yes, Ezekiel has said the Day of the Lord is at hand, but after all, one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day, Psalms 90:4
When Israel elasticized Gods words of imminence into relativity, ambiguity and meaning-less-ness, God responded. In Ezekiel 12:21ff, [Please, take the time to get your Bible and read it for yourself!] Adonai told Ezekiel to tell Israel that her days of changing the time for his predictions were over. He had said judgment was at hand; Israel said it was not at hand. Jehovah would not tolerate it.
Ezekiel was instructed to tell Israel that in that generation judgment would fall just as Jehovah had indicated when he said it was at hand. [Have you read those verses for yourself yet? If not, why not do it right now and see for yourself that what we are saying is true?] What we have then, is an example of man saying that while God had said something was imminent it really was not; it was for a long time off. We have Gods response; when God said at hand he meant at hand! He did not mean hundreds or thousands of years; he meant soon! God, Himself rebukes this interpretation of His time statements. God employed the language of humanity to communicate His message in the Bible to humanity in humanitys own time statements.
Another example of man changing the meaning of Gods time words is in Amos. God warned Israel the time had come for her to be judged, 8:2-3. In spite of the warnings Israel put far off the evil day. In spite of Gods warning that judgment was at hand they insisted All things continue as they were, They refused to believe God meant the end has come. As a result God said Woe to them for putting of His words! 6:3. As we have just seen if God do not keep the when part of the time statements then He has not kept his promise! Jehovah would not tolerate this interpretation of His time statements. He rebukes it Himself in scripture.
Most honest students of the Bible already realize that the New Testament is full of time statements that point to an imminent last days of the Old Covenant. Once Scripture is allowed to speak for itself, one cannot honestly deny the overwhelming amount of Scripture passages which declare that the last day prophecies were to shortly come to pass. By listing these numerous verses, we can see that the first century saints believed they were living in the last days of the Old Covenant. Peter specifies. Who (Christ) verily was fore ordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you. (1 Peter 1:20)
The apostle John made a similar statement: 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. Here, the same word eschatos is used for last. However, the Greek word for time is slightly different, though very related: it is the Greek word hora defined by Strongs as: 5610. hora, ho-rah; appar. a prim. word; an hour (lit. or fig.):--day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.
John believed they were in the last or farthest season or hour of the Jewish age.
Peter specifies the range of this period, commonly called the last days, in his sermon in Acts 2:16-21. He declares that, it was fulfilling the prophecy of (Joel 2:28-32). What is significant about Peters statement is that he was claiming that they were in the last days. The writer of Hebrews expressed this identical sentiment as he began his discourse comparing the fading Old Covenant with the Everlasting New Covenant:
Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, {2} Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Jesus was manifested, not at the beginning, or start of the last days but during the last days. The period between A.D. 30 and 70 is, as the apostle Peter describes it, these last times (1 Peter 1:20).
Hath in these last days the writer confirms. Without any speculation those in the first century believed they were in the last days. Certainly the writers of the New Testament were very aware of those passages we have studied involving the last days of Judah and Jerusalem. Therefore it is safe and logical to say that the New Testament writers believed that they were in the last days of the Jewish age.
The apostle John made this time statement: 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. Here, the same word eschatos is used for last. However, the Greek word for time is slightly different, though very related: it is the Greek word hora defined by Strongs as: 5610. hora, ho-rah; appar. a prim. word; an hour (lit. or fig.):--day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.
John believed they were in the last or farthest season or hour of the Jewish age. Paul believed the same:
Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. There are two different Greek words used here translated as time. In the first cause Paul says knowing the time. The Greek word here is 2540. kairos, kahee-ros; of uncert. affin.; an occasion, i.e. set or proper time:--X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while. Comp. G5550. Strongs.
In the second clause Paul uses the phrase high time. High time is the same Greek word used in first John. Both Paul and John firmly believed that they were in the last time or days of the Jewish age. Paul believed they were living in the end of the Jewish age as well: 1 Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the age are come.
Paul was describing the history of the Jews and their rebellion against God in the wilderness. We should not ignore the fact that Paul, in discussing the ancient rebellion which took place in the wilderness says it was written for their admonition, upon whom the ends of the age are come.
New consider the time statements of James as he addressed the unbelieving Jews: James 5:1-4 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth eaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Clearly James taught that these men were in the last days.
Jude, in describing the same group of unbelieving Jews, also speaks of this period, although with a different phrase: But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. (Jude 1:17-18)
The word time is the Greek word chronos, defined by Strongs Exhaustive Concordance as: 5550. chronos, khron-os; a space of time. The word last is defined as: 2078. eschatos, es-khat-os; a superl. prob. from G2192 (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time):--ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost. Certainly we can conclude from Jude that they were in the farthest or uttermost space of time of the Jewish age. They were in the last days of the Jewish state.
The impression of the Apostles is the nearness of the end is worthy of notice that there is a marked gradation in the language of the different epistles. Going from know that in the last days perilous times will come To the last times and the last times became the last days, and the last days become the last hour [escath wra esti]. The period of expectation and delay was now over and the decisive moment was at hand. And that, knowing the time.. The night is far spent, the day is at hand. (Romans 13:11-12)
There are many other passages that could be used to support the fact that the first-century believers and particularly the apostles believed unanimously that they were in the end of the Jewish age or the last days of the Jewish age. The fact is that anytime Scripture uses the phase last days it means, a period from 30-70 AD. This was the period during which the Apostles were preaching and writing, the last days of Old Covenant Israel before it was forever destroyed in the destruction of the Temple (and the Old Covenant sacrificial system) not the end of the world or physical universe.
Now just to show that Israel today does not fit the picture I'll post one more after this, than you ask me questions about them and give another one of your recorded questions to me.
