Was God's Kingdom already established in 70 AD ? - Preterism views

[Hidden Manna]

The Post Mortem Resurrection

The last major view of resurrection held by preterists is that it occurs when one is dead, and that it is the rising out of the grave of the dead person’s spirit to the inheritance of heaven (or hell). This view is found in the Old Testament:

[1] “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands {guard} over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. [2] “ Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace {and} everlasting contempt . [3] “Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever (Daniel 12:1-3, NASB).

Here one learns of a day when a great distress when there would be a great distress on the people of Daniel, the Jews. This occurred in the war against Jerusalem (Mark 13:1-4, 14-20; Luke 21:5-7, 20-24). Around this time, those in the dust would awake and go on to their inheritance if faithful (cf. Daniel 12:13), or to “disgrace and everlasting contempt.”

In the New Testament, one learns of this resurrection in the words of Jesus:

[24] “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. [25] “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. [26] “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; [27] and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is {the} Son of Man. [28] “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, [29] and will come forth; those who did the good {deeds} to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil {deeds} to a resurrection of judgment (John 5:24-29, NASB).

This scene is found in Revelation as well:

[11] Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. [12] And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne , and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is {the book} of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds . [13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged , every one {of them} according to their deeds. [14] Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. [15] And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15, NASB).

Here one sees the scene of the rising from the dead and their judgment. At this point, the defeat of Death occurred, and Hades, the residence of the dead before this event, was destroyed (cf. Luke 16:19-31, the story of the rich man and Lazarus). Now when people die, they go directly to judgment (2 Corinthians 5:9, 10; Hebrews 9:27, 28).

It should be noted that many futurists believe in the past fulfillment of the corporate and regenerative forms of resurrection, on some level or another, while denying that they are “ the resurrection”. For example, members of the churches of Christ that grew out of the Restoration Movement, a generally a-millennial partial preterist group, would hold that the resurrection of regeneration occurs upon hearing the word, having faith in Christ, and baptism, and that the restoration of the kingdom occurred on the day of Pentecost, but without considering this “ the resurrection.” Many with post-millennial or a-millennial leanings would hold that the kingdom has been restored under the reign of Christ without considering this “resurrection” of Israel “ the resurrection.”

Many of these individuals would also hold that the “first resurrection” of Revelation 20:4-6 is the regeneration of those who come to Christ and reign on earth with Him in His kingdom at this time, while others might hold that the “first resurrection” is the raising of the saints during the Christian era. It is the general post-mortem resurrection (the resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous), then, that separates preterists from even their “closest” theological “relatives” (partial preterists, a-millennialists, and post-millennialists). While many of those in these camps hold that the fulfillment of the corporate resurrection and the resurrection of regeneration is in the past, they reject the notion that the post-mortem resurrection is past (except possibly in the first resurrection).

By Kenneth Perkins

 

[Hidden Manna]

Resurrection in Preterist Theology

Many, if not most, who hold to one view of the resurrection affirm at least one of the other views, while not holding it to be “ the ” resurrection. Generally it is believed that all of these things are aspects of resurrection. For example, while the author holds that “ the resurrection” refers to the post-mortem resurrection, this is not a denial of the other resurrections.

For example, one might believe (as does the author) in the corporate resurrection based on the clear teaching of the following passages:

[17] “And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. [18] “But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. [19] “Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; [20] and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, [21] whom heaven must receive until {the} period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time (Acts 3:17-21, NASB).

This time of restoration is the consummation of the establishment of the new covenant and the church, the kingdom of God.

[13] After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, “Brethren, listen to me. [14] “Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. [15] “With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, [16] ‘AFTER THESE THINGS I will return, AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN, AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS, AND I WILL RESTORE IT, [17] SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD, AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,’ [18] SAYS THE LORD, WHO MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO (Acts 15:13-18, NASB).

Here the word speaks of the prophecy of the rebuilding and restoration of the fallen tabernacle of David, which occurred in the first century conversion of the Gentiles to Christ, thus fulfilling Peter’s condition for the return of Christ.

[20] For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope [2] that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. [22] For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. [23] And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for {our} adoption as sons, the redemption of our body (Romans 8:20-23, NASB).

Here Paul speaks concerning the collective deliverance and adoption of the body in the future and the end of the bondage to corruption.

[20] For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; [21] who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory , by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself (Philippians 3:20, 21, NASB).

Here Paul again speaks of the transformation of the body from its lowly state to a glorious state. Thus, the resurrection of the children of Israel corporately was fulfilled at the second coming of Christ. Should this restoration be called “ the resurrection”? Does proper exegesis lead on to the conclusion that this resurrection is “ the ” resurrection of Acts 24 that is called the “hope of Israel”?

Elsewhere, as one has seen, the Bible speaks of the complete transformation of the individual into the image of Christ:

Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day (2 Corinthians 4:16, NASB).

My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you -- but I could wish to be present with you now and to change my tone, for I am perplexed about you (Galatians 4:19, 20, NASB).

The formation of Christ in the believer was fulfilled at the parousia of Christ. Thus, believers were raised at the last day by Christ (John 6:38-55). Is it safe, however, to call this raising “ the resurrection”?

It is my conviction that, while these are forms of resurrection, “ the resurrection” in places such as John 5:28, 29 and Acts 24 is a term that refers specifically to the rising of the physically dead out of their graves in their spiritual bodies. This is particularly evident in the fact that, as the text in John 5 indicates, this resurrection applies to the saved and non-believers, the just and the unjust. This also seen in the words of Paul in the book of Acts:

[14] “But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets; [15] having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked . [16] “In view of this, I also do my best to maintain always a blameless conscience {both} before God and before men. [17] “Now after several years I came to bring alms to my nation and to present offerings; [18] in which they found me {occupied} in the temple, having been purified, without {any} crowd or uproar. But {there were} some Jews from Asia-- [19] who ought to have been present before you and to make accusation, if they should have anything against me. [20] “Or else let these men themselves tell what misdeed they found when I stood before the Council, [21] other than for this one statement which I shouted out while standing among them, ‘ For the resurrection of the dead I am on trial before you today’” (Acts 24:14-21, NASB).

The hope shared by both Paul and his opponents was the resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. This certainly cannot be applied to the corporate resurrection, since at the parousia , the wicked are gathered out of the kingdom, not raised (Matthew 13:36-43, 47-50). While the corporate view is often depicted in terms like those of the post-mortem resurrection (cf. Isaiah 26:11-19; Ezekiel 37), it is also clear from these same passages that this raising is limited to those who are God’s people. In the Isaiah 26 passage, for example, the enemies of God are said to never rise, and Ezekiel 37 the raising is linked directly to being filled with the Spirit, who walk in the ordinances of God, thus demonstrating the non-universal nature of the corporate resurrection, distinguishing it from that in John 5:28, 29 and Acts 24. Moreover, the New Jerusalem, the church, the kingdom of God, contains nothing that defiles (Revelation 21:27).

Likewise, this cannot refer to the resurrection of regeneration, for this resurrection is available only to those who have come to Christ, as one can see in John 6. Moreover, this resurrection is made distinct from the resurrection of regeneration in 1 Corinthians:

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed , in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed . For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality (1 Corinthians 15:51-53, NASB).

Notice the terminology used by Paul; he did not say, “we will all be raised,” but to make a distinction between the resurrection of regeneration for all who are in Christ (we will all be changed) and the post-mortem resurrection limited to the physically dead (the dead will be raised), he makes a distinction and uses different terminology. Thus, the raising of the last day envisioned by Martha is the personal resurrection out of the grave to one’s inheritance (John 11:24; cf. Daniel 12:13), the post-mortem resurrection.

One last point should be made. In 1 Corinthians 15, only the dead in Christ are mentioned as being raised imperishable (as the resurrection in which life is bestowed is limited to the saved: John 5:28, 29). However, this does not limit the post-mortem resurrection to the saved, as it is clear from the testimony of scripture elsewhere (cf. Daniel 12:2; Revelation 20:11-15) that those who are not in Christ will rise also. The specific mention of those in Christ, then, is most likely due to the specific concern for those in Christ mentioned early in the passage (1 Corinthians 15:18-24), much like that in the similar passage of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. Thus, this passage does not teach that there is no resurrection of the unrighteous, but is emphasizing the body raised possessed by those in Christ at the parousia .

Conclusion

The Bible speaks of several aspects of resurrection. These include the corporate resurrection of the nation of Israel in the body of Christ, the regenerative resurrection of spiritual life, and the post-mortem resurrection that leads to the judgment and one’s inheritance of heaven or hell. While the Bible speaks of various forms of resurrection that occurred or were consummated at the Lord’s parousia , it appears proper to only refer to the post-mortem resurrection, the only one which is applicable to both the sinner and the saint, as “ the resurrection”.

By Kenneth Perkins

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The Word of God is Truth, preterism is not true.

The body will be resurrected from the dust of the earth.

Only the body 'sleeps' in the dust of this earth in it's unconscious state of the dead elements that it comes from, after the spirit departs it; and the body will be raised from the elements of this earth in the resurrection.

'dust to dust', but the earth shall cast out the dead bodies from its dust and no more cover her slain.


And on another thread, I posted this, below, that shows that the body of human flesh that Jesus Christ returns in, is the very same body that He 'is come' to inhabit, from time He put it on, in the womb of the virgin; and died in; and rose in; and ascended in, and is glorified in; and is returning in.

"The Word of God clothed Himself with human flesh, and did not become less than Who He was, the Word of God, to put on the 'garment' of the 'prepared body' of flesh..

"Veiled in flesh the Godhead see!
Hail the incarnate Diety!"

In revelation 19;13, His clothing is the human body of flesh that He was put to death in for our blood atonement.

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped [baptized] in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

clothed; AV - clothe 7, clothed with 4, array 3, array in 3, clothe in 3,
cast about 3, put on 1; 24

vesture; himation 1) a garment (of any sort) a) garments, i.e. the cloak or mantle and the tunic 2) the upper garment, the cloak or mantledipped;

bapto 1) to dip, dip in, immerse

Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Mar 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

Consider it, preterists! He is clothed with the human flesh dipped in the 'blood of atonement'; which was His "baptism".

Preterists rely on books tortuously written to try to confuse and deceive the readers.
The Word of God is plain.

The resurrection of the body from the dust of the earth out of the grave, is promised to all in Adam -and those only will be regenerated in the resurrection of the body who are born from above in Spirit.

The dead Adam Spirit is not revived. It is dead forever as son of God and cannot be revived as son of God; if we will be made alive then we must be joined to the LORD by the One Spirit of Adoption; but the body must be regenerated before we can be glorified, and that is the promise given to all in Christ.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Preterists rely on books tortuously written to try to confuse and deceive the readers.
The Word of God is plain.

The resurrection of the body from the dust of the earth out of the grave, is promised to all in Adam -and those only will be regenerated in the resurrection of the body who are born from above in Spirit.

The dead Adam Spirit is not revived. It is dead forever as son of God and cannot be revived as son of God; if we will be made alive then we must be joined to the LORD by the One Spirit of Adoption; but the body must be regenerated before we can be glorified, and that is the promise given to all in Christ.

You were right about just one thing and that is The Word of God is plain, but futurism has distorted the true meaning of scripture as Jesus John and Paul understood and presented it.

It all surrounded around what was lost in Adam and the kind of death he died the every day he sinned which was spiritual death because he died physically some 800+ years later.

God said the day that they eat from the forbidden tree they would die, so what is restored in Christ is spiritual life and living in the presence of God with Christ living in your heart. Not some literal physical gloried fantasy about walking through walls on literal streets of gold for only 1000 years where no one in the world can sin and until then you are not with Christ "only spiritual but that does not count for much".

We have been made alive and we are joined to the LORD by the One Spirit of Adoption; The body has be regenerated and we have been glorified, and that was the promise given to all in Christ. It all happened in AD70 and has been ongoing ever since. Preterism make faith and hope a reality, but futurism destroys faith and hope in the light of what Gods word said and became fulfilled.

 

[A New Dawn]

.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You were right about just one thing and that is The Word of God is plain, but futurism has distorted the true meaning of scripture as Jesus John and Paul understood and presented it.

It all surrounded around what was lost in Adam and the kind of death he died the every day he sinned which was spiritual death because he died physically some 800+ years later.

God said the day that they eat from the forbidden tree they would die, so what is restored in Christ is spiritual life and living in the presence of God with Christ living in your heart. Not some literal physical gloried fantasy about walking through walls on literal streets of gold for only 1000 years where no one in the world can sin and until then you are not with Christ "only spiritual but that does not count for much".

We have been made alive and we are joined to the LORD by the One Spirit of Adoption; The body has be regenerated and we have been glorified, and that was the promise given to all in Christ. It all happened in AD70 and has been ongoing ever since. Preterism make faith and hope a reality, but futurism destroys faith and hope in the light of what Gods word said and became fulfilled.

All will be raised from the dust, as Scriptures promise, in their own bodies, in their own order -the fullness of the Gentiles is the next harvest, that Pentecost spoke of, and it is coming at the sounding of the two heavenly trumpets, as is shown in the oracles, in Numbers 10:1-7, which will sound and call the entire congregation of the LORD to assemble at the door of meeting -our heavenly temple- and we will be resurrected from the dust of this present creation, if we have bodily died, and we will be changed to the regeneraated bodies if we are alive and remain, as Isaiah 26:19-21 speaks of -that Paul spoke about when he said these things; "Behold! I show you a mystery, we shall not all [sleep the bodily sleep of death] die...the trumpet shall sound and the dead in Christ shall rise first and we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them, to meet Christ in the air, ...at the last trump [the last trumpet sounding of the two] and so shall we ever be with the LORD -and caught up in the fully human bodies that are fully redeemed and brought to glory as sons of God forever, in which we shall be glorified.

The resurrection and the rapture are the next order of events that will be accomplished in the Word -and we have not come to that resurrection of our bodies, yet, for we who sleep and we who are alive shall all be given our regenerated bodies together -in that first harvest.

Those who teach that the resurrection is past are speaking false doctrine. the graves have not been opened and the bodies yet lie in them of the Believers in Christ -but the world will not be able to avoid the fact that graves will be opened and those believers bodies will not be in those graves anymore -no bones, no dust, will remain, for the elements will be resurrected in the regenerated form -and He will use the elements of this creation -and all intact bodies and dust of the elements of every person who is a Believer will be given life in the regeneration of the elements that now sleep, without the spirit, in the dust.

dust to bones, will be raised and come out of their graves at the resurrection.

 

[Hidden Manna]

All will be raised from the dust, as Scriptures promise, in their own bodies, in their own order -the fullness of the Gentiles is the next harvest, that Pentecost spoke of, and it is coming at the sounding of the two heavenly trumpets, as is shown in the oracles, in Numbers 10:1-7, which will sound and call the entire congregation of the LORD to assemble at the door of meeting -our heavenly temple- and we will be resurrected from the dust of this present creation, if we have bodily died, and we will be changed to the regeneraated bodies if we are alive and remain, as Isaiah 26:19-21 speaks of -that Paul spoke about when he said these things; "Behold! I show you a mystery, we shall not all [sleep the bodily sleep of death] die...the trumpet shall sound and the dead in Christ shall rise first and we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them, to meet Christ in the air, ...at the last trump [the last trumpet sounding of the two] and so shall we ever be with the LORD -and caught up in the fully human bodies that are fully redeemed and brought to glory as sons of God forever, in which we shall be glorified.

The resurrection and the rapture are the next order of events that will be accomplished in the Word -and we have not come to that resurrection of our bodies, yet, for we who sleep and we who are alive shall all be given our regenerated bodies together -in that first harvest.

Those who teach that the resurrection is past are speaking false doctrine. the graves have not been opened and the bodies yet lie in them of the Believers in Christ -but the world will not be able to avoid the fact that graves will be opened and those believers bodies will not be in those graves anymore -no bones, no dust, will remain, for the elements will be resurrected in the regenerated form -and He will use the elements of this creation -and all intact bodies and dust of the elements of every person who is a Believer will be given life in the regeneration of the elements that now sleep, without the spirit, in the dust.

dust to bones, will be raised and come out of their graves at the resurrection.

No you are wrong

Here is in very simple terms, what the “age of the gentiles” was!!
The time of the gentiles is the time that the Roman army shattered the power of the Holy people in AD 70.

Lu 21:24 - they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Revelation and Daniel clean up this somehow misunderstood phrase.
Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

These are not coincidenses. All of this happpened as Christ said. Somehow the church made a simple event and complicated it. But just as Jesus said, and as long as was told to Daniel and John, it happened THEN!!

Luke21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it; 21:22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. ................Lu 21:24 - they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. ..............32 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place.

....... Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

There is no coincidence that 37 years from Christ’s ascention, Jerusalem was surrounded by armies (Luke 21:20)

3 1/2 years later the temple was utterly destroyed (Matt 23:38, 24:1-3) and the power of Judaism was SHATTERED as Daniel said (Daniel 12:7).
THAT fulfilled all (Daniel 12:7, Luke 21:22).

 

[yeshuasavedme]

No, Hidden Manna,
The times of the Gentiles and the fullness of the Gentiles are not the same thing Gentiles make the Church in this age, but the Church is not tredding down Jerusalem!

Times is number of years, but the fullness of the Gentiles is speaking of the harvest of the Gentile Church, which is Pentecost -I'll go into that more, later.

There are two harvests, the spring and the fall, Pentecost and at Tabernacles;
The 144,000 are the Firstfruits of Israel -who are the firstfruits of the last harvest, that is represented by Tabernacles, which will be fullfilled after the thousand year reign, when the final harvest is gathered -but a thousand years before that final harvest, the firstfruits are gathered -regenerated in body and glorified.

Those first of firstfruits of the first harvest whom Jesus raised after He rose from the dead in His own New Creation body that He came to dwell in, came out of their graves -and so shall all who are resurrected in body from the dust of the earth come out of theri graves -the graves will be empty -and so will a few urns holding ashes of cremation as signs of the resurrection on the dead in Christ.

There is no body in Abraham's tomb -and Joseph made sure his bones were taken out of Egypt as a sign of the resurrection.

The human body is most precious to the LORD, and He made us in a human body in His own image and likeness, to be a house for His dwelling -the restoration is about being brought back as sons of God in our complete body, spirit, and soul -and glorified.

 

[Hidden Manna]

No, Hidden Manna,
The times of the Gentiles and the fullness of the Gentiles are not the same thing Gentiles make the Church in this age, but the Church is not tredding down Jerusalem!

Times is number of years, but the fullness of the Gentiles is speaking of the harvest of the Gentile Church, which is Pentecost -I'll go into that more, later.

There are two harvests, the spring and the fall, Pentecost and at Tabernacles;
The 144,000 are the Firstfruits of Israel -who are the firstfruits of the last harvest, that is represented by Tabernacles, which will be fullfilled after the thousand year reign, when the final harvest is gathered -but a thousand years before that final harvest, the firstfruits are gathered -regenerated in body and glorified.

Those first of firstfruits of the first harvest whom Jesus raised after He rose from the dead in His own New Creation body that He came to dwell in, came out of their graves -and so shall all who are resurrected in body from the dust of the earth come out of theri graves -the graves will be empty -and so will a few urns holding ashes of cremation as signs of the resurrection on the dead in Christ.

There is no body in Abraham's tomb -and Joseph made sure his bones were taken out of Egypt as a sign of the resurrection.

The human body is most precious to the LORD, and He made us in a human body in His own image and likeness, to be a house for His dwelling -the restoration is about being brought back as sons of God in our complete body, spirit, and soul -and glorified.

God did not make man in his image physically because God is spirit. It was Adam's spirit that was made in God's image not his flesh as you are tring to make it out to be so that it fits into your resurrection fantasy of physical corps rising out from the dust of the earth.

Those terms given in scripture were given so that spiritually minded people would understand the things of the Spirit. Carnal things are just the foreshadowing of spiritual things.

Understanding the Resurrection

The key to understanding any passage of Scripture in the New Testament has always been a good grasp of the historical setting of what it fulfilled, in the Old Testament.

Revelations 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
In order to get a form grasp on this verse we need to understand Israel’s concept of the first-fruits and the harvest.

If we are really going to understand the timing of resurrection we have to seriously study the language, history, and culture of ancient Israel.

In order to understand the biblical view of the resurrection you must first understand the concept of the “first fruits” and “the harvest.” Where did this idea of “first-fruits” originate? “On the same general principle that the firstborn of man and beast belonged to the God of Israel and were to be devoted to Him Nehemiah 10:35-39.

The first-fruits including the first grain to ripen each season, were to be brought as an offering to God. Every Israelite who possessed the means of agricultural productivity was under this obligation (Exodus 23:19; 34:26; Numbers 15:17-21; 18:12-13) Speak the to children of Israel, and say to them. When you come into the Land which I give to you, and reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the first-fruits of your harvest to the priest. He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted on your, behalf on the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it (Leviticus 23:10-11).

The first-fruits were brought in a basket to the sanctuary and presented to the priest, who was to set the basked down before the altar. Then, the offering recited the story of Jacob’s going to Egypt and the deliverance of his posterity from there. He then acknowledged the blessings with which God had visited him (Deuteronomy 26:2-11).

It would be natural for Paul to have thought of Christ as the first-fruits, because the day of Christ’s resurrection was the second day of Passover week on which the first ripe sheaf of the harvest was offered to the Lord (Lev 23:10-11,15).

Paul was also establishing another basic point. While Christ was the first-fruits his people were also significance of the “first ripe sheaf” (Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:15; James 1:18). Because they were buried with Christ in baptism into death: and raised in His, resurrection by the glory of the Father they walked in the newness of life (Romans 6:4).

These “New Covenant saints” were the ones who Jesus addressed in verse 25 of John 5. These saints who followed their Lord would never die (John 11:26). Eternal Life, was a gift to those “New Covenant saints” who would finish their days on earth, under the New Covenant. Believers who live until 70 A.D when everything under the Old Covenant was fulfilled by the inauguration of the New Covenant would never die (John 10:28). They would never experience waiting in the place of the dead, the Hadean realm but would be “absent from the body, and present with the Lord” (2 Cor. 5:8).

The resurrection began with the resurrection of Jesus. He opened the way. Those saints who died after they followed their Lord. Those collective believers were of the first resurrection-first-fruits to God. These first-fruits were representative of the whole harvest before God (Revelation 14:4). This select group of Christians, were purchased from the earth as a FIRST-FRUITS offering. The Greek for purchased, means to go to the market. It is a picture of God coming to the earth, to select His FIRST-FRUITS from the entire harvest. The term “first-fruits” itself implies, the remainder of the harvest was about ripe.

The first-fruits are related to the harvest as the part is to the whole. Every Jewish Christian understood this Old Testament concept. The second important truth inherent in the first-fruits figure is the readiness of the harvest to be gathered as signified in the offering of the first-fruits. The act of reaping had already begun, and the harvest was ready to be cut (Revelation 14:15).

The harvest was the dead in Christ from the Old Covenant. These were people like Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Job, Isaiah, and Daniel, etc, not of a time, still to come in our future for in Christ, the time for death to be abolished had arrived (2 Timothy 1:10). These “Old Covenant saints” were the rest of the harvest, the general resurrection. These were the ones Jesus addressed “though he may die, he shall live (John 11:23). Knowing this, we can appreciate why God said: I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Matthew 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38).

Because of the start of the New Covenant at the death of Christ, man now began to pass for death unto life Roman 6:4 and a process of accessing the heavenly realm. For example, when Stephen was stoned he called upon the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” (Acts 7:59).

This is the first resurrection that John mentioned in the last part of verse 5 of chapter 20. These first-fruits believers who died before the Parousia “the Finished work of Christ,” did not go to the place of the dead Abraham’s bosom or the Hadean realm Luke 16:19-31 but instead were under the altar (Revelation 6:9). The first resurrection is considered “blessed and holy” in verse 6 because of their intimate first-fruit relationship with the risen Christ. Their proximity to the Holy Place rendered them priest of God and the Messiah and they became part of that first century symbolic 1000 year reign of Christ.

The harvest, follows the ripening “perfecting and offering of the first-fruits.” With the return of Christ and the destruction of temple, the way into God presence was now opened (Hebrew 9:8). The Hadean realm was emptied, and the Old Covenant saints, who were the harvest, were gathered in the general resurrection in A.D.70. This is the second resurrection that John mentioned in the first part of verse 5 of chapter 20.

One way to better understand the teaching of John’s resurrection in Revelation 20:5 is to get a better grasp of the literary devices that are used by the writer to produce the desired results of the revelation he is seeking to unveil. One such device is chiasmas, which is a term that designates a literary figure or principle, which consist of “a placing crosswise” of words in a sentence or writing.

The term is used in rhetoric to designate an inversion of the order of words or phrases which are repeated or subsequently referred to in the sentence or writing.

 

[Hidden Manna]

The human body is most precious to the LORD, and He made us in a human body in His own image and likeness, to be a house for His dwelling -the restoration is about being brought back as sons of God in our complete body, spirit, and soul -and glorified.

Adam died spiritual the day he sinned, not physically. So what is restored is the spiritual part of man that is now made alive through Christ, but as long as the old temple was still standing before AD 70 redemtion had to wait until then. That was when salvation was completed.

2 Cor 5:16
Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know [Him thus] no longer.

Flesh can not inherit the Kingdom of God so what book are you reading anyway because what you are saying does not line up at all with scripture.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I've sure been over the Scriptures on the body rising from the dust of this creation's elements plenty enough times -but the preterist does not recognize Scripture that refutes the false teaching of preterism, nor respond to it's clear teaching.

The body that Jesus Christ is incarnated in is flesh and bone -of the New Creation, and is fully human.
In Revelation 19:13 He is shown returning to earth from heaven in that human being body -as Son of Man [human!] to reign over the earth for the thousand years -and forever, after He regenerates it; and He is said by John to be
returning in the same human body which the Word of God clothed Himself with at the incarnation, that He was "baptized" in blood in [that He came to die in and rose from the dead in].

Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped [baptized] in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

clothed; AV - clothe 7, clothed with 4, array 3, array in 3, clothe in 3,
cast about 3, put on 1; 24

vesture; himation 1) a garment (of any sort) a) garments, i.e. the cloak or mantle and the tunic 2) the upper garment, the cloak or mantledipped;

bapto 1) to dip, dip in, immerse

Jhn 1:14 A nd the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Mar 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?

The flesh in Scripture that will not inherit the kingdom of God is the Adamic, unregenerated, 'flesh' which generally speaks of the fallen nature, itself -and that is made clear by the many Scriptures dealing with it.

We will be 'bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh' -of the New Man creation- when we are regenerated in body at the resurrection -and that is why we will be "married", or, the "bride" of Christ when we awake in His image as sons of God, clothed with bodies of human flesh made in His New Man image from the elements of this creation
-if our bodies are asleep in the dust when He resurrects the dead in Christ or if we are alive and remain, we shall be changed -instantly dissolved and regenerated in our human flesh- and rise to meet the LORD in the air with those dead in Christ who are resurrected in regenerated bodies at that same moment in time that is yet to come.

 

[Hidden Manna]

I've sure been over the Scriptures on the body rising from the dust of this creation's elements plenty enough times -but the preterist does not recognize Scripture that refutes the false teaching of preterism, nor respond to it's clear teaching.

The body that Jesus Christ is incarnated in is flesh and bone -of the New Creation, and is fully human.

All preterist I know agree with this.

In Revelation 19:13 He is shown returning to earth from heaven in that human being body -as Son of Man [human!] to reign over the earth for the thousand years -and forever, after He regenerates it; and He is said by John to be
returning in the same human body which the Word of God clothed Himself with at the incarnation, that He was "baptized" in blood in [that He came to die in and rose from the dead in].

What John saw in Revelation 1 describe Jesus a little differently with white hair then when he was on earth.

13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands [One] like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. * 14 His head and hair [were] white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; * 15 His feet [were] like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; * 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance [was] like the sun shining in its strength. * 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. * 18 "I [am] He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore.

Then in Mark 16:12 Jesus appeared in another form, only spirited being can manifest physically in another form.

Mark 16:12 After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country.

Jhn 1:14 A[/b] nd the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

All Preterist I know believe Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. Seems to me you are trying to make preterist look like we do not believe this. So where are you coming from?

We will be 'bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh' -of the New Man creation- when we are regenerated in body at the resurrection

WE BE, how about WE ARE NOW bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh. You are speaking as though you are not bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh yet but Paul said a little differently.

Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.

and that is why we will be "married", or, the "bride" of Christ when we awake in His image as sons of God, clothed with bodies of human flesh made in His New Man image from the elements of this creation
-if our bodies are asleep in the dust when He resurrects the dead in Christ or if we are alive and remain, we shall be changed -instantly dissolved and regenerated in our human flesh- and rise to meet the LORD in the air with those dead in Christ who are resurrected in regenerated bodies at that same moment in time that is yet to come.

Paul's Change in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory. "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?" (1 Corinthians 15:51-55)

In order to understand the change that Paul says the (first century saints) would go through (we shall all be changed) We as in Paul looked forward to be changed also. We today must understand the change according to the Bible and Paul's understanding, and not the traditional idea's of the change today.

What was this great change that the living would go through? Lest start at the beginning of the Bible. In Genesis 2:15-17 God told man concerning the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil "in the day you eat thereof you will surely die." Man and woman ate of the fruit. Did they die that day? Amazingly, most people will say "No!" because Adam and Eve did not die physically after they ate the forbidden fruit. But this is not the whole story.

And Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden the day they ate the fruit. Thus, Adam and Eve died spiritually because they were cast out of the presence of God. If Adam and Eve did not die the day they ate then Satan told the truth and God lied! God said you will die in the day you eat, Satan said you will not surely die, Genesis 3:1ff. Who told the truth to Adam and Eve? Unless one can find Adam and Eve physically dead in Genesis 2-3, then the death they died was spiritual and not physical. Death in this context means separation, sin-death, (i.e. separation from God caused by sin); not physical death.

In Romans 5:20 we read Paul said the law was added, "that sin might abound." This does not mean that God gave the Old Law to make men sin more — man had no problem doing that on his own as we see in Genesis. But God gave the Old Law to make sin appear exceedingly sinful, to make man acutely aware of his sinfulness.

The New Testament writers likened life under the Old Covenant to death, because all those under the Law were under the curse, Gal. 3:10. Paul called the Old Testament the "ministration of death" because all it did was condemn; it could not justify, Romans 8:1-3. In chapter 7 of the same book Paul said: "I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me" vs. 9-11.

Can Paul be speaking of physical death? If so, then he was saying he was a physical dead man who was still physically writing, apparently not. Yet he said he had died. Paul's "dying" is to be equated with the old covenant. This is in the present tense. This is the law that Paul labored under created a "body of death." (Romans. 7:24) My point is that Paul calls that Old Law the Ministration of Death because it could not deliver from sin. Paul had learned that he could not earn righteousness in all of his efforts under the Law and all attempt to do so were actually death.

It is evident therefore that when Paul uses the term "the law" in 1 Corinthians 15 that his consistent use of the term should guide our understanding. Paul has not changed subjects. Is it possible to define the Old Covenant as the strength of sin? Now if the Old Law was a (ministration of death), what would deliverance change from that death be? Would it be life from the dead? Allowing the Bible to define the change as deliverance from sin, (separation from God) the Old Covenant of Death to the New Covenant of Life, in Christ we understand Paul's New Testament language of change in (1 Corinthians 15:51-55) 1 Pet. 1:23, would that not be a change from corruptibility to incorruptibility?

The apostle Paul says those who were turning to Christ from that Old Covenant were in fact "being changed or transformed (present tense) into the same image (greek eikona) from glory to glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Corinthians 3:18) What image were they being transformed into? It was the glory of the Lord! The change or transition from the Old Covenant to the New was a transformation into the image of Christ

Paul is plainly dealing with the same issue as Jesus, life and death. Paul strongly believed that the transformation from death, under the Old Covenant to life in Christ was a change from death to life. The subject of this change was the two covenant aeons." (ages,)

Paul has not changed subjects; he is still focused on his singular desire "the change or resurrection from, literally "out from the dead." Our modern view today denies the relationship of the Old Covenant to death and life — spiritual life. It fails to take into consideration that man stands before God in relationship to Covenant. To live under a Ministration of Death was to be a body of death, Rom. 7:24; 8:8-10. (separation from God) To be delivered from that ministration of death was to be changed into a new ministration or covenant of life. This is the Biblical concept of the change in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55.

To put it another way, since the Old Law was the Ministration of Death and the New Law of Christ is the Law of Life, the change became a reality with the full establishment of Christ's New Covenant. The first century saints were in a "already but not yet" aspect to of the change. This meant that there was a time of transition between the Old Covenant of the Law and the New Covenant a time when those coming out from that Old Law were coming into life.

When that Old Covenant of Death was completely taken away, this is called the resurrection. This is the Biblical concept of resurrection. "Christ is the end of the law to those who believe," Rom. 10:4. But the Law would pass when fulfilled and the Hebrew writer says it was at that time growing old and was ready to vanish away, Hebrews 8:13. To Paul and his readers this was a futuristic element of the change. As we have seen earlier, the Biblical definition of life and death, in the context is covenants and Jesus' redemptive work, from death caused by sin, i.e. separation from God.

Since Paul's context for the living is change, in (1 Corinthians 15:51-55) that change is life forever in the very presence God under the new covenant.
__________________

Many teach these earthly bodies will be turn into something that cannot die. However in Isaiah 65 concerning the New Heaven and Earth people still die and sinners are accursed. Just like today.
The change is life that is put in our vessels (bodies) so that we can take hold of eternal life.

Here is a verse that can help explain what the scripture is referring to from the Old Testament.

Isa 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Isa 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

Life was found in Jesus.

Also the tears from the Law were taken away.

When they in Jerusalem came from Law to grace. (Glory to Glory).
They went from death to life.

The temple Killed, brought pain, tears, death, sorrow, etc:

Acts 2 Was the new covenant that brought life, joy, peace, salvation, etc:

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Dear Hidden Manna,
The thousand year reign on earth, of the Son of Man, will be as King over the blessed of the LORD, those redeemed persons who are not in regenerated bodies.

Jesus said that in the regeneration they do not marry nor are they given in marraige, but the millennial reign on earth, which is itself a type and shadow, still, of the eternal kingdom that is coming in the regeneratin of the heavens and the earth, will be a time of persons in their earthly adamic bodies marrying and giving in marraige as the blessed of the LORD who enter that kingdom as saved, or redeemed souls, but unregenerated in body; Jesus promised that He would cleanse His kingdom of all things that offend when He returns to reign over this earth in person....and those who remain on earth in unregenerated bodies will marry,have children, and die, for the entire time of the thousand years of earth's last Day [of a thousand years each 'day'] which is the last day and the Sabbath rest of it. -That's all through Scripture.


We who are regenerated in body and who reign as priests and kings with Him over this earth from the heavenly realm for that thousand years will be in our 'sons of God' adopted bodies, and glorified, and in those bodies we will not marry, we will not die, and we not dwell on this earth until after it is also regenerated -after the Sabbath of it -and we will return to dwell on this earth as the 'New Jerusalem' in the eighth day of creation, which is the New Beginning; in which eighth day all seed of Adam will be cut off forever from the inheritance in the kingdom, and will no more procreate, as they will be cast aways in the everlasting fire who are not regenerated in the New Man's image.

Circumcision given to Abraham is the sign of the eighth day's cutting off of all seed in Adam -no more precreating and no more death forever after the last day, in the new beginning.

And Jesus is in His fully human body but He is not on earth time, is He?
John saw the LORD Jesus as Enoch saw Him, as the 'Head' of days, and as Daniel saw Him as the 'Ancient' of days. He is the same One, but He is in the same body that He came incarnate in; and John was 'in Spirit' and saw the Day of the LORD from the beginning to the end, a thousand years, and John saw Him as He is seen in the book of Daniel, as the Ancient of days after the rapture, when He gives the kingdom to the Saints, who are the "one like the son of man", who are brought to Him, the Ancient of days, which is what He will look like to us when we who are raptured see Him and receive the rule in Him, from Him, that He ransomed this earth back for, as Firstborn....

And just as Abraham had the promise of the Spirit in the name change Abra H am, but did not possess the spiritual regeneration and was seen in spriritual separation, still, in Luke 16 -until the resurrection and the ascension of Jesus, when He led captivity captive- so we who are adopted in spirit and have received the promised Spirit that Abra ham believed in but did not receive, so we have the promised New Man body of the regeneration by faith, but the habitation is laid up for us 'in heaven" in the "Firstborn", who will regenerate our bodies at the rapture and the resurrection that are coming, all at the same time, together, in the future.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Dear Hidden Manna,
The thousand year reign on earth, of the Son of Man, will be as King over the blessed of the LORD, those redeemed persons who are not in regenerated bodies.

The Preterist 1000 years

The Preterist generally takes the position that the “Thousand Years” or Millennium is that 40 year transition period between 26 A.D (Christ’s ministry) and 66 A.D. (The beginning of the Jewish War). The Millennium is marked by the binding of Satan in Christ’s earthly ministry and consummated in the destruction of Jerusalem. This was that period when the Old Covenant was dying as the New Covenant was maturing. The New Covenant finally reached it’s fullness at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. when the Lord came in judgment and rewarded those faithful saints who were eagerly awaiting His Parousia (Matt. 16:27-28). This marks the passing away of the old “Heavens and Earth” (Rev. 21/Old Covenant) and the bringing in of the “New Heavens and Earth” (Rev.22/New Covenant).

The New Covenant is an everlasting covenant that will never end. Satan was defeated (Rom 16:20), death (spiritual) was destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26) and complete salvation accompanied Christ at his second coming (Hebrews 9:28).

The “Thousand Years” is to be understood as a perfect number of years rather than a quantitative amount of years. The “end” or “last days” marked the end of old covenant Israel or the “last days” of the sacrificial system and the beginning of the new covenant Church. The Bible speaks about the “time of the end” and NOT the “end of time”. There is a BIG difference.

You need to get a copy of Ed Stevens audio tape series concerning “The Thousand Years”. You will find that this was a very big topic amongst the Hebrew Rabbi of the first century. Ed documents this very well. In studying Midrash and the Mishnah you will find many first century Rabbi referring to this period as “The days of Messiah”. This was a BIG topic of the day. They called this period “The Thousand Years” because many Rabbi thought that it might be a literal 1000 years but no longer. Many though, believed that this was a 40 year period and reflected the 40 year wilderness wandering of Israel. So, it came to be known as “The Thousand Years” doctrine. A first century Jew has a much better grasp on these things than a 20th century western individual. The Hebrew culture has much symbolism when dealing with prophetic literature.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Dear Hidden Manna,

[/u]Jesus said that in the regeneration they do not marry nor are they given in marraige, but the millennial reign on earth, which is itself a type and shadow, still, of the eternal kingdom that is coming in the regeneratin of the heavens and the earth,

I believe this to be wrong yeshuasavedme, types and foreshadowing all have been fulfilled in Christ.

John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Marrage in the old covenant was an ownwership. The man owned the woman, this is no longer in effect in the new covenant for all are free in Christ. The new covenant had come into full effect in AD70 but stared at the cross. Between the cross and AD70 was a transition point in which they were waiting for the end of the things like the temple to come to and end.

Marriage today is not an ownership and all women can be thankful for that. What Jesus meant by no more marriage in the new heaven and earth is that owership marriage would not be permited according to His will being done on earth as it is in heaven.

The end of literal physical types and foreshadowing were all fulfilled by Christ when the end of the old covenant age happened. Since the cross all we can see is spiritual fulfillments of what the natural things pointed to. Christ coming in judgment against the Jews in AD 70 and His appearing in the glory of the Father which was spiritual not physical is a very good and clear example of what I mean.

Coloss 2:17
which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Hebrews 9:11
. But Christ came [as] High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.

Hebrews 10:1
For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.

Jesus started this speaking plainly with the disciples, no more figurative types and foreshadowing.

John 16:25
" These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father.

John 16:29
His disciples said to Him, "See, now You are speaking plainly, and using no figure of speech!

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna,
I'm sorry, but that post of yours is absolute garble -not Scripture at all!
I'm a female married to a male and He is my head in marraige.
In the regeneration of our bodies at the resurrection [or the rapture]there will be neither male, female, Jew, or Gentile, but all will be the 'One New Man'. in Christ's New Man image.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels *of God in heaven....

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hidden Manna,
I have noticed you refer to the 70 AD destruction of the temple as if it was the temple spoken of in Hebrews chapter 9; but that is not true, and the temple spoken of in Hebrews 9 was the first temple, the temple that Solomon built; and in Ezekiel chapters 1-11, the glory of God is seen by Ezekiel in the Person of YHWH, who is 'now come in flesh', and was then seen departing the temple that then stood.

When the temple that then stood was destroyed, the Ark of the Covenant and the glory of God never returned to dwell in the second temple -nor when Herod remodeled it.
The author of Hebrews makes mention only of that temple as the one in which the blood was offered on the Mercy Seat.
There was no Mercy Seat since Babylon, in Israel.
That kind of blows the preterist claim that the temple destroyed in 70 AD was destroyed when the author of Hebrews wrote.
When the author of Hebrews wrote, the Herodian temple still stood, and the offerings were made in that temple as they could, according to law, but there was no Mercy Seat, no Ark, since the indignation that began with the Babylonian invasion and the destruction of Solomon's temple.
-and the veil was split at the death of Jesus Christ and showed that the first death of separation was ended -but no one can go into the Holy of Holies that one represented without the holy garments, and the Holy Garments speak of the resurrected, regenerated human body.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Hidden Manna,
I'm sorry, but that post of yours is absolute garble -not Scripture at all!
I'm a female married to a male and He is my head in marraige.
In the regeneration of our bodies at the resurrection [or the rapture]there will be neither male, female, Jew, or Gentile, but all will be the 'One New Man'. in Christ's New Man image.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels *of God in heaven....

How do you explain this scripture then if you say we have to wait for a "rapture" and regenerated bodies to literally come up from the dust of the earth when Paul was stating we have this in Christ now when he said: for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Hidden Manna]

Hidden Manna,
I have noticed you refer to the 70 AD destruction of the temple as if it was the temple spoken of in Hebrews chapter 9; but that is not true, and the temple spoken of in Hebrews 9 was the first temple, the temple that Solomon built; and in Ezekiel chapters 1-11, the glory of God is seen by Ezekiel in the Person of YHWH, who is 'now come in flesh', and was then seen departing the temple that then stood.

When the temple that then stood was destroyed, the Ark of the Covenant and the glory of God never returned to dwell in the second temple -nor when Herod remodeled it.
The author of Hebrews makes mention only of that temple as the one in which the blood was offered on the Mercy Seat.
There was no Mercy Seat since Babylon, in Israel.
That kind of blows the preterist claim that the temple destroyed in 70 AD was destroyed when the author of Hebrews wrote.
When the author of Hebrews wrote, the Herodian temple still stood, and the offerings were made in that temple as they could, according to law, but there was no Mercy Seat, no Ark, since the indignation that began with the Babylonian invasion and the destruction of Solomon's temple.
-and the veil was split at the death of Jesus Christ and showed that the first death of separation was ended -but no one can go into the Holy of Holies that one represented without the holy garments, and the Holy Garments speak of the resurrected, regenerated human body.

If what you say is true then we are still seperated from God including Christ until we get a physcial regenerated body. What kind of religious denomination believes that we are still separated from Christ?

If Christ is in the holy of holies and we can NOT be there in Him until we are "physically resurrected does that not go against the basic belief in Christianity.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves [as to] whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? -- unless indeed you are disqualified.

Paul said here that we or they were raised “resurrected” into heavenly places

Ephesians 2:6
and raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly [places ] in Christ Jesus,

Here paul says we have been blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places ]

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places ] in Christ,

What ever your faith is I think I'll stick with mine instead, I like it better that way I do not have to wait from things already given and have no expectations of a futuristic fantasy that in the past has cost me to make so very serious bad decisions like not having children and losing large amounts of investments that were centered around the end-time maddness that my futuristic belief lead me into.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The oracles teach the first principles of the things of God, and if anyone does not speak according to the law and the testimony, there is no light in them.

Hbr 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

I've posted this before, but it is a 'merry go round' with a preterist, who does not believe the plain Word of God nor speak according to the first principles in the oracles.

We who are born from above by the Spirit of adoption are 'one Spirit'
1Cr 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
-and the Firstborn of our 'One Spirit', the Spirit of adoption -who adopts us into His 'One New Creation Man' by that 'One Spirit' (that proceeds from the throne above, as a river of Life), as our human being New Creation Man 'Firstborn', sits on the throne above and is glorified; and we, 'in Him' by spiritual adoption are seated, in that one Spirit that we are, in Christ, our Federal Head and our Firstborn;
contrasted to the 'one Adam being' that our 'firstborn' of, is dead, and we, 'in him' -'in Adam'- die; and we have not received our regenerated bodies nor are we glorified, nor have we received our rewards, nor have we received our particular rule over His dominion, in Him, yet, for our faithfulness in service that we shall receive at the rapture of the Church, when we are all (both the dead and the 'quick') regenerated in body and glorified with the glory promised to come that we now have only the downpayment of, in these bodies, that we receive when we are born again in spirit.

That is coming, still, in the regeneration of our bodies when we are glorified, which is when we shall no more be "Jew, Gentile, male, female", and not marry nor give in marraige nor procreate -nor have any dwelling place in this present earth until it is regenerated after the tousand year reign; but we will have reached the goal that Paul pressed toward, as the One New Man, in body, soul, and Spirit, in the New Man's likeness and image; which is the goal, the finish, that the law taught of in the living oracles, that the Creator provided for us from the beginning of the world -which is to come, in the regeneration.

Abram received the promise of the Spirit in the name being changed with the 'H' added to his own name, in the middle of the 'being', so to speak; Abra -H- am; and he never had the Spirit, though He had the promise and the benefits in this earth of the promise; but we who have the promised Spirit are also promised the body of adoption, in Israel, and the renaming of our being in Him at that regeneration, which is when we shall be fully sons of God and glorified and be no more 'in Adam' physically.

We have the promise and we have the firstfruits of the Spirit, but we do not have our regenerated bodies and we shall receive them and then we shall go "no more out" from the house of the Father -His temple- and in the regeneration of the heavens and the earth, we are seen as the Holy City, the New Jerusalem [all of us who are adopted seed of Adam, both Jews and Gentiles, will be the true 'holy of holies', the 'One Church' that He is building for His habitation forever], which New Jerusalem is the true holy of holies of the temple that is 'God and the Lamb' in the regeneration.

And that is what the Last Adam came to restore us back to, which we were created to be in the beginning, a house of YHWH, for His indwelling in glory, His human 'sons'.

We are 'seated' 'in Him', by that 'One Spirit' of adoption; but in our persons we are in our adamic bodies and earthbound, and are not allowed in, in the body, until we "put on the holy garments" of consecration, our Priesthood garments, which is the regenerated body, to cover the regenerated Spirit that we now are -if we are indeed born from above.

The law teaches all these things about our restoration as sons of God -priests and kings- in His One New Creation Man image at the regeneration.

-And no priest dare go into the Holy of Holies after His washing until he put on the specific garments of priesthood, and no one but the High Priest went into the Holy of Holies, and that once a year, after the symbolic cleansing and anointing and donning of garments to minister before the holy Presence of glory in. The priest took off the holy garments to leave the Holy Presence, but we will never take off our garments of priesthood after we receive them and enter in, and we shall go no more out:
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name. [Genesis 5;2 shows our present name, Isaiah 49 shows His New Name that we will receive in body, at the regeneration, but which we have in Spirit at the adoption].
Jesus Christ is the High Priest of the New Creation Man and had no cleansing of His being to do and no robing of His being to do, after He donned the garments of salvation and vengence; which is the human body that He is clothed with from the incarnation, in which He was 'baptized' with blood for our cleansing, in which same body He is returning to set up His kingdom on this earth and to reign in Person on His throne of glory from the temple in Jerusalem that He will build, which temple Ezekiel describes: and in Him, we shall also serve as "firstborn", which we also would have done in Adam if our first father had not sinned and died (and we died as sons of God to that glory, in him -irreversably); to live again we must be born again and He will make us His sons in His image by adoption and we will go in to the Holy of Holies and be the true holy of holies in the regenerated heavens and earth, that the created one is an oracle of.


Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.