Was Ellen White a true or false prophet?

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Gary K

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I'll take one question at a time or I will be overwhelmed with questions, Posting is a slow process for me as I had a stroke a year or so ago that left me with me left hand crippled up enough I can no longer touch type and make all kinds of typos I have to fix or my posts would be unreadable.

Also today is my birthday and my wife is taking me out to dinner this evening. I turned the big 30 today. Just kidding. I turned the big 70 today.
 

HTacianas

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I'll take one question at a time or I will be overwhelmed with questions, Posting is a slow process for me as I had a stroke a year or so ago that left me with me left hand crippled up enough I can no longer touch type and make all kinds of typos I have to fix or my posts would be unreadable.

Also today is my birthday and my wife is taking me out to dinner this evening. I turned the big 30 today. Just kidding. I turned the big 70 today.

Since you asked, Ellen White was a false prophet, one of many to arise from the apparent mania of upstate New York of the early to mid 1800s.
 
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Gary K

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Since you asked, Ellen White was a false prophet, one of many to arise from the apparent mania of upstate New York of the early to mid 1800s.
And your question? I didn't agree to accept insulting comments. about her.
 
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HTacianas

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And your question? I didn't agree to accept insulting comments. about her.

Well, you asked if she was a true or false prophet. I answered the question. We can go a different way with it I suppose. What causes you to believe that she was a true prophet?
 
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Gary K

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Well, you asked if she was a true or false prophet. I answered the question. We can go a different way with it I suppose. What causes you to believe that she was a true prophet?
So you expect me to write a book? I already explained I can't do a lot of typing. If this is all you can come up with don't bother posting again.
 
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Gary K

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Well, you asked if she was a true or false prophet. I answered the question. We can go a different way with it I suppose. What causes you to believe that she was a true prophet?
I'm sorry. I just went for a walk and should have realized there would be a lot of people her as pedantic as I am. I should have said specific questions
 
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daq

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I'll take one question at a time or I will be overwhelmed with questions, Posting is a slow process for me as I had a stroke a year or so ago that left me with me left hand crippled up enough I can no longer touch type and make all kinds of typos I have to fix or my posts would be unreadable.

Also today is my birthday and my wife is taking me out to dinner this evening. I turned the big 30 today. Just kidding. I turned the big 70 today.

To be open, fair, and honest about such a question, I would first need to study the writings of Ellen White, and then come to a conclusion based on a comparison of her writings with the scripture. I simply do not have the time, nor the interest, because of the great amount of work before not only myself but all of us in studying the scripture directly. But I will say that what people often say about such people, and what such people have actually said, can very often be two different things.
 
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DamianWarS

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I'll take one question at a time or I will be overwhelmed with questions, Posting is a slow process for me as I had a stroke a year or so ago that left me with me left hand crippled up enough I can no longer touch type and make all kinds of typos I have to fix or my posts would be unreadable.

Also today is my birthday and my wife is taking me out to dinner this evening. I turned the big 30 today. Just kidding. I turned the big 70 today.
I only have a cursory knowledge of Ellen White and her writings. However, I recognize a role denominations/individuals can have in reaching regional or marginalized groups that others cannot reach. We get all tribal with it and end up being in competition with each other which is counter-productive. So long as the fundamentals of faith and scripture are not obscured varied doctrines can thrive and with that the gospel even when they clash from group to group.

The issue is when we miss the point and see this as grounds for war against each other, the leader of which is indeed a false prophet. For when fundamentals do become obscured and have selfish motives these leaders are too false prophets. I don't know where Ellen White fits into this, and everyone has a different line that can't be crossed. Broadly speaking I protest the classification of laws such as moral or health motivated so that we may discriminate against it as this is not a biblical methodology of approaching law and I think this produces an unbalanced culture that relies on the knowledge of the prophet over the text too much. This imbalance often is the trappings of a false prophet, but the motivation and fruit of their teaching may further reveal something more innocuous.

I would be willing to take a look at one of her books that you feel best represents her core theology and ethos (not several books, just one) but by the time I'm finished the book this thread will probably be too old to comment in.
 
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I only have a cursory knowledge of Ellen White and her writings. However, I recognize a role denominations/individuals can have in reaching regional or marginalized groups that others cannot reach. We get all tribal with it and end up being in competition with each other which is counter-productive. So long as the fundamentals of faith and scripture are not obscured varied doctrines can thrive and with that the gospel even when they clash from group to group. The issue is when we miss the point and see this as grounds for war against each other, the leader of which is indeed a false prophet. For when fundamentals do become obscured and have selfish motives these leaders are too false prophets. I don't know where Ellen White fits into this, and everyone has a different line that can't be crossed. Broadly speaking I protest the calcification of laws such as moral or health motivated so that we may discriminate against it as this is not a biblical methodology of approaching law and I think this produces an unbalanced culture that relies on the knowledge of the prophet over the text too much. This imbalance often is the trappings of a false prophet, but the motivation and fruit of their teaching may further reveal something more innocuous.

I would be willing to take a look at one of her books that you feel best represents her core theology and ethos (not several books, just one) but by the time I'm finished the book this thread will probably be too old to comment in.
Steps to Christ is a small one, Here is a link, Steps to Christ — Ellen G. White Writings

I thought it was a very good book.

I'll take one question at a time or I will be overwhelmed with questions, Posting is a slow process for me as I had a stroke a year or so ago that left me with me left hand crippled up enough I can no longer touch type and make all kinds of typos I have to fix or my posts would be unreadable.

Also today is my birthday and my wife is taking me out to dinner this evening. I turned the big 30 today. Just kidding. I turned the big 70 today.
There have been many prophets since Christ. So why do Adventist only focus on her?
 
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Gary K

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Steps to Christ is a small one, Here is a link, Steps to Christ — Ellen G. White Writings

I thought it was a very good book.


There have been many prophets since Christ. So why do Adventist only focus on her?
Because she was given to the SDA denomination and she passes all the Biblical tests of a prophet. None of the other so called prophets do like Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, or Nostradamus, I can't think of any others at the moment or I'd list them too.

Steps to Christ is an awesome book If anyone wants to improve their relationship God put into prsctice what she wrote in that book. The Desire of Ages is also an extremely good book. I'm a Christian today because of it. It shows the love of God so well that I realized for the first time in my life in my mid twenties that God actually loved me, the guy that the rest of my family despised.

I know that seems really odd to most people but when fasmilies get very disfunctional they will often pick one person by some unspoken way and choose them to take out all their anger on. I was the one chosen in my family for that role.
 
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I'm amazed but the people who know nothing. or very little, about Ellen White's writings but are convinced she was a false prophet. I knew a lot of prejudice existed against her but ignorant prejudice is something else. It speaks to closed minds.
 
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Bob S

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I'll take one question at a time or I will be overwhelmed with questions, Posting is a slow process for me as I had a stroke a year or so ago that left me with me left hand crippled up enough I can no longer touch type and make all kinds of typos I have to fix or my posts would be unreadable.

Also today is my birthday and my wife is taking me out to dinner this evening. I turned the big 30 today. Just kidding. I turned the big 70 today.
Happy Birthday to you and many more. I have had 88 of them Gary. We just sold our home here in Tennessee and bought one in Georgia. I just could not take care of four acres on the side of pretty steep hill anymore. Our new home is on level ground and only a third of an acre.

I have studied many of Ellen White's writings. Some are very inspiring, some are downright false and some just do not make any sense. Some of her writings are verifiably copied from other writers. I will copy one on the plan of salvation where she had the plan come after the fall of man.

Sorrow filled heaven, as it was realized that man was lost ... I saw the lovely Jesus and beheld an expression of sympathy and sorrow upon His countenance. Soon I saw Him approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded His Father. Said my accompanying angel, He is in close converse with the Father.... Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time He came from the Father, His person could be seen.... He then made known to the angelic host that a way of escape had been made for lost man. He told them that He had been pleading with His Father, and had offered to give His life a ransom, to take the sentence of death upon Himself ... Jesus bade the heavenly host be reconciled to the plan that His Father had accepted... Early Writings, pp. 149-151.

SDAs make excuses for this false statement saying in an other writing Ellen got it correct. If I believed her writings and only read the one in "Early Writings" and not the Bible, I would have been duped into believing God didn't know man was going to sin. Rev 17:8.
 
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Gary K

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Happy Birthday to you and many more. I have had 88 of them Gary. We just sold our home here in Tennessee and bought one in Georgia. I just could not take care of four acres on the side of pretty steep hill anymore. Our new home is on level ground and only a third of an acre.

I have studied many of Ellen White's writings. Some are very inspiring, some are downright false and some just do not make any sense. Some of her writings are verifiably copied from other writers. I will copy one on the plan of salvation where she had the plan come after the fall of man.

Sorrow filled heaven, as it was realized that man was lost ... I saw the lovely Jesus and beheld an expression of sympathy and sorrow upon His countenance. Soon I saw Him approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded His Father. Said my accompanying angel, He is in close converse with the Father.... Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time He came from the Father, His person could be seen.... He then made known to the angelic host that a way of escape had been made for lost man. He told them that He had been pleading with His Father, and had offered to give His life a ransom, to take the sentence of death upon Himself ... Jesus bade the heavenly host be reconciled to the plan that His Father had accepted... Early Writings, pp. 149-151.

SDAs make excuses for this false statement saying in an other writing Ellen got it correct. If I believed her writings and only read the one in "Early Writings" and not the Bible, I would have been duped into believing God didn't know man was going to sin. Rev 17:8.
What does God knowing man was going to sin have to do with that statement? You think God broadcast that to the unfallen angels? Why would He tell them. oh, you know that new race of people my Son just created? They are going to sin and plunge themselves into misery and death slowly and painfully destroying themselves and each other. Why?

Do you think it was easy for the Father to give His only Son up to what was coming? A life of poverty, prejudice, hatred and the most cruel and shamefull death known? I don't understand how you could see that as a false statement.
 
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Bob S

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What does God knowing man was going to sin have to do with that statement? You think God broadcast that to the unfallen angels? Why would He tell them. oh, you know that new race of people my Son just created? They are going to sin and plunge themselves into misery and death slowly and painfully destroying themselves and each other. Why?

Do you think it was easy for the Father to give His only Son up to what was coming? A life of poverty, prejudice, hatred and the most cruel and shamefull death known? I don't understand how you could see that as a false statement.
Gary, you are trying to cover for a blatant lie. The plan of salvation was made before the foundation of the Earth. There had already been sin in Heaven. Satan and a third of the angels had sinned. God is omnipotent so He knew man was going to sin before He created him. Ellen's story involves her "angel". If it had been a true angel the angel would know the true story. The fact that Ellen later got the story straight proves she made up the story in "Early Writings".
 
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Bob S

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Peter’s fall was not instantaneous, but gradual. Self-confidence led him to the belief that he was saved, and step after step was taken in the downward path, until he could deny his Master. Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel, this side of heaven, that we are secure against temptation. Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading. Every one should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation. God’s word declares, “Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried.” Daniel 12:10. Only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of life. (James 1:12). {COL 155.1}

That statement is in compete opposition to Jesus words to us.
This is how we KNOW we belong to the truth........believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. 1Jn3

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Jn5:24

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jn3:16


We will be tempted and we will sin. That does not mean every time we sin we lose our eternal life. No one will be in Heaven if we believe Ellen White's writings.

The practice of secret habits surely destroys the vital forces of the system. All unnecessary vital action will be followed by corresponding depression. Among the young, the vital capital, the brain, is so severely taxed at an early age, that there is a deficiency, and great exhaustion, which leaves the system exposed to disease of various kinds. But the most common of these is consumption. None can live when their vital energies are used up. They must die. God hates everything impure, and his frown is upon all who give themselves up to gradual and sure decay.
ApM 28.1

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”
ApM 29.1

Those who corrupt their own bodies cannot enjoy the favor of God, until they sincerely repent, make an entire reform, and perfect holiness in the fear of the Lord. None can be Christians and indulge in habits which debilitate the system, and bring on a state of prostration of the vital forces, which end in making a complete wreck of beings formed in the image of God. This moral pollution will certainly bring its reward. The cause must bring the results. Those who profess to be disciples of Christ should be elevated in all their thoughts and acts, and should ever realize that they are fitting for immortality, and that if saved, they must be without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing. Their Christian character must be without a blemish, or they will be pronounced unfit to be taken to a holy heaven, to dwell with pure, sinless beings in God's everlasting kingdom.
ApM 29.2

We have not forgotten you, my dear boy. When we see other little children around, we long to get our little Willie in our arms again, and press his little soft cheek, and receive his kiss. In about five weeks we shall be at home again, and then, Willie, we will work in the garden, and tend the flowers and plant the seeds. You must be a good, sweet, little boy, and love to obey Jenny and Lucinda. Give up your will, and when you wish to do anything very much, inquire, Is it not selfish? You must learn to yield your will and your way. It will be a hard lesson for my little boy to learn, but it will in the end be worth more to him than gold. [By the blessing of God and his mother's instructions, Willie has overcome the impatient spirit which he sometimes manifested when quite young, and he now possesses a most affectionate, amiable, and obedient disposition. A.P.P.] Learn, my dear Willie, to be patient, to wait others’ time and convenience; then you will not get impatient and irritable. The Lord loves those little children who try to do right, and he has promised that they shall be in his kingdom. But wicked children God does not love. He will not take them to the beautiful City, for he only admits the good, obedient, and patient children there. One fretful, disobedient child, would spoil all the harmony of heaven. When you feel tempted to speak impatient and fretful, remember the Lord sees you, and will not love you if you do wrong. When you do right and overcome wrong feelings, the Lord smiles upon you.
AY 61.2
 
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DamianWarS

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Sorrow filled heaven, as it was realized that man was lost ... I saw the lovely Jesus and beheld an expression of sympathy and sorrow upon His countenance. Soon I saw Him approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded His Father. Said my accompanying angel, He is in close converse with the Father.... Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time He came from the Father, His person could be seen.... He then made known to the angelic host that a way of escape had been made for lost man. He told them that He had been pleading with His Father, and had offered to give His life a ransom, to take the sentence of death upon Himself ... Jesus bade the heavenly host be reconciled to the plan that His Father had accepted... Early Writings, pp. 149-151.
extra biblical additions like these are in my opinon irresponsible and I have a broad rule to accept them as I would a fairy tale, by using them for their moral values but not in the sense they are new revelations. So I accept them as much as I accept the book or Mormon or that matter the Quran. They have agreeable aspects to them but as soon some new information comes out the bible does not confirm it turns into fictional account. These are indeed the trappings of a false prophet.

Sure there's good stuff that can be pulled out but that doesn't make it new revelation. My question is what is the goal behind these revelations? And if the goal is unclear then what is the fruit? There's a lot of demand for accounts like these in her day and when it's adding to the bible on paperthe whole thing doesn't look good... again the trappings of a false prophet.
 
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Gary K

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Gary, you are trying to cover for a blatant lie. The plan of salvation was made before the foundation of the Earth. There had already been sin in Heaven. Satan and a third of the angels had sinned. God is omnipotent so He knew man was going to sin before He created him. Ellen's story involves her "angel". If it had been a true angel the angel would know the true story. The fact that Ellen later got the story straight proves she made up the story in "Early Writings".
I said unfallen angeks, Do you really think He wanted to spread that kind of sorrow in heaven before it absolutely had to enter? In my book you don't think much of the love of God for His sentient creation, or the love of unfallen beings for us.
 
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Gary K

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extra biblical additions like these are in my opinon irresponsible and I have a broad rule to accept them as I would a fairy tale, by using them for their moral values but not in the sense they are new revelations. So I accept them as much as I accept the book or Mormon or that matter the Quran. They have agreeable aspects to them but as soon some new information comes out the bible does not confirm it turns into fictional account. These are indeed the trappings of a false prophet.

Sure there's good stuff that can be pulled out but that doesn't make it new revelation. My question is what is the goal behind these revelations? And if the goal is unclear then what is the fruit? There's a lot of demand for accounts like these in her day and when it's adding to the bible on paperthe whole thing doesn't look good... again the trappings of a false prophet.
I asked for specific questions so it's possible to answer them in a reasonable amount of time and typing and I explained why.

I guess we'll just have to go through the Biblical tests for a prophet as you ignore what I asked.
 
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Gary K

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Ok. Here goes on the Biblical tests for a true prophet.

Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation is a book of prophecy about the end times so this tells us there will be true prophets until the end of time.

Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Jesus told us the same thing Revelation does as He would not have warned us about false prophets if there was not going to be true ones too at the end of time.

The Bible tells us to test the prophets.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Now we get into the into the tests of a true prophet.

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Jer 18:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Jer 18:9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
Jer 18:10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

In other words there are conditional prophecies and the conditions are based upon the actions of people.involved in the prophecy. Jonah's prophecy concerning Nineveh is a prime example. In fact that's why Jonah tried to run away from God as He knew God was merciful and if the Ninevites repented He would not destroy them.

Jon 4:1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
Jon 4:2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
Jon 4:3 Therefore now, O LORD, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.

That's enough for me right now as my fingers are sore from all the posting I've been doing.
 
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Here comes more on the Biblical tests of a true prophet.

Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

OK. I am now ready for specific questions about Ellen White writings and her life's work.
 
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