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Was Adam the FIRST Food Producer??? GENERATIONS ???

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by joshua 1 9, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    I am familiar with the justification for Adam and Eve and breeding with our siblings.
    But the "Creation" of Adam and Eve is not equal with "Creation from nothing" language.
    And many other passages suggest the world was already full of people.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  2. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Yes, that's why God choose to alter Man and make-over him in the image of God.
     
  3. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The story I have been told is that there was a problem with Satan in Heaven. He fell because of his pride and he was cast down to the earth. One third of the angles followed in the rebellion and now here on earth two thirds will follow in the rebellion.

    The Bible talks about the Breath of Life. Genesis 2:7. "He breathed the breath of life into the man's nostrils, and the man became a living person."
     
  4. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is every reason to believe that Adam and Eve descended from all those other people. What the Bible calls gentiles. Although the Bible suggests that they inner married.

    Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

    Sometimes I wonder if life is about sorting them back out again.
     
  5. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In the world people do what they do because it makes them feel good. The hormones have an effect. One example is the Prairie Vole where they mate for life because of the Oxytocin hormone.

    With Christ His love for the Bride is a sacrificial love. God so loved the world that HE GAVE HIS only begotten Son. God's love for us is a sacrificial love.
     
  6. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    No.

    Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

    God was.
     
  7. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    We can see that Adam is treated the same as other generations.
    Not as the first man and originator of all people.
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    And we continue the marriage becasue we would wish that for our spouse.
    And it ain't easy.
     
  9. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    I don't see anyone's name before Adam in that album.
    Luke says otherwise.

    Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
     
  10. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    The word is:
    FATTEN(Verb) {בָּרָא / ba'ra}1
    ]in the summit Elohiym fattened the skies and the land,
    Genesis Chapter 1
    in~SUMMIT {בְּרֵאשִׁית / bê'rey'[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]} he~did~FATTEN(Verb) {בָּרָא / ba'ra}1] Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} AT {אֵת / eyt} the~SKY~s2 {הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim} and~AT {וְאֵת / wê'eyt} the~LAND {הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets}

    רא [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] Definition: Grain is fed to the livestock making them fat or full.
    FATTEN(Verb): Definition: To make more substantial, fleshy or plump; to fill up. The filling of the earth in Genesis 1 with the sun, moon, plants and animals. The filling of man with breath and the image of God. To bring something about. Hebrew: ברא b.r.a AHLB: 1043-E(V) KJV Translations: create, creator, choose, make, cut down, dispatch, done, fat Strong's: #1254
    FED.FAT: Definition: A member of the livestock that has been fed grains to fatten it for the slaughter. Hebrew: בריא ba-ri-masc.בריאה -fem. Alternate Translations: fattening AHLB: 1043-E(b) KJV Translations: fat, rank, firm, fatter, fed, plenteous, new thing Strong's: #1277, #1278

    SUMMIT: The head, top or beginning of a place, such as a river or mountain, or a time, such as an event. The best or most important. The point at which something starts; origin, source. Hebrew: ראשית rey-[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-fem. Alt. Trans.: best, first Strong's: #7225

    Genesis 1:27 / The filling of man



    "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them". Genesis 1:27 (KJV)

    While the above is a common translation for this verse, there are two words within it, that when translated from a Hebraic perspective, illuminate the passage in a new light. The first word is ברא (bara), which in this verse cannot mean, "create something from nothing", as another verse would contradict this translation.

    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

    God did not create the man out of nothing; instead he formed him out of the ground. With our new understanding of the word ברא, discussed previously, he filled him with his image, which brings us to the next word.

    The word צלם (tselem), translated as "image" above, is also translated in other passages as an "idol", which is an "image" of a god. A more Hebraic understanding of the word would be a "shadow". An idol is meant to be a "shadow" of the original, a representation, just as a "shadow" is the image of the original. We can now read the above passage as:

    "So God filled the man with his shadow, with the shadow of God he filled him; male and female he filled them". Genesis 1:27

    Man was formed from the dust of the ground, but unlike the other animals, man was filled with the shadow of God. All that God is, we were made to duplicate, just as a shadow duplicates the original. Genesis 2:7, quoted above, states that man was filled with God's breath. From an ancient Hebrew perspective, the breath is the character of the person; therefore, the shadow of God is the same as his character. God filled the man with his own breath, his own character.

    ^ Genesis 1:26 / Likeness

    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... (Genesis 1:26, KJV)

    The parent root of the word דמות (demut) is דם (dam) and means "blood." One descended from the "blood" of another often resembles the one descended from. Derived from the parent root דם is the child root דמה (damah) meaning "to resemble" Derived from this child root is the word דמות (demut) and means a resemblance or to be like something else in action or appearance, just as a son "resembles" his father.
    MTT: Genesis 2
     
  11. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    1 in~SUMMIT {בְּרֵאשִׁית / bê'rey'[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]} he~did~FATTEN(Verb) {בָּרָא / ba'ra}1] Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} AT {אֵת / eyt} the~SKY~s2 {הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim} and~AT {וְאֵת / wê'eyt} the~LAND {הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets}

    in the summit Elohiym fattened the skies and the land,

    2 and~the~LAND {וְהָאָרֶץ / wê'ha'a'rets} she~did~EXIST(Verb) {הָיְתָה / hai'tah} CONFUSION {תֹהוּ / to'hu} and~UNFILLED {וָבֹהוּ / wa'vo'hu} and~DARKNESS {וְחֹשֶׁךְ / wê'hho'shekh} UPON {עַל / al} FACE~s {פְּנֵי / pê'ney} DEEP.SEA {תְהוֹם / tê'hom} and~WIND {וְרוּחַ / wê'ru'ahh} Elohiym {אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him} much~FLUTTER(Verb)~ing(fs) {מְרַחֶפֶת / mê'ra'hhe'phet} UPON {עַל / al} FACE~s {פְּנֵי / pê'ney} the~WATER~s2 {הַמָּיִם / ha'ma'yim}

    and the land had existed in confusion and was unfilled, and darkness was upon the face of the deep sea and the wind of Elohiym was fluttering upon the face of the waters,


    in the summit Elohiym fattened the skies and the land, and the land had existed in confusion and was unfilled, and darkness was upon the face of the deep sea and the wind of Elohiym was fluttering upon the face of the waters,

    LAND: Definition: The solid part of the earth's surface. The whole of the earth or a region. Hebrew: ארץ e-rets-fem. Edenics: earth; terra - with a reversal of letters; terrain AHLB: 1455-C(N) KJV Translations: earth, land, country, ground, world, way, common, field, nations, inferior Strong's: #0776

    What it says is that the world was empty (infilled), rock, dirt, water--nothing else. Your basic asteroid.
    The next question might be--where did the asteroid come from?---
    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    However you want to slice it---there was no man on this planet before God made Adam and Eve.
     
  12. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Basically scripture (in greek) says
    Let us "process" man into our image.
    This started with Adam.
     
  13. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    However, it was originally written in Hebrew, not Greek. It is the Hebrew understanding of scripture that is more accurate, not the Greek, which didn't even exist for long after the Hebrews.
     
  14. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    My mistake. Hebrew which is said to be more accurate:

    The word you are looking for is "bara". But it's not here to support your stand.


    26 Then God said, "Let Us make (asah) man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

    asah: do, make
    Transliteration: asah
    Short Definition: do

    accomplish (8), accomplish much (1), accomplished (4), accomplishing (1), achieve (1), administer (1), administered (1), apply (1), appointed (3), artificial (1), bring forth (1), build* (1), built (3), busy (1), cared (1), causing (1), developing , exerted (1), make your ready (1), Maker (13), maker (4), makes (19), making (5),perform (31), take action (6), thoroughly deal (1), treat (3), tried (1), trim (1), trimmed (1), truly practice (1), use (1), used (4), wage (2), waged (2), work (12), worked (7), wrought (2), yield (5), yielded (1), yields (1).



    Let us consider:
    2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through Him all things were made, ( ginomai) and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

    ginomai - (closer to "born", but still do, or make)
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  15. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Nothing in your post even covers Adam and Eve's change into the Image of God.
    26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
     
  16. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Right. Then God let
    the land
    to form
    all the living creatures
    according to His plan.

    Here God considers mankind, and decide to improve on this, of all the animals that have "evolved" from the earth. (I don't mean "evolve" as in stupid and blind. I mean "evolve" exactly as God engineered biology and controlled every molecule befor sin.)

    Currently, we call this "getting a makeover." In this case, it was makeover of the Spirit.
    Before Adam, mankind did not have the Breath of life in Him. Man was not really
    alive before this and still is not counted as sinful until after being born again of the Spirit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  17. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Humans were born of the land as were all other creatures that move on ground.
     
  18. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Neat.

    What's it say in Swahili?
     
  19. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God had to bring the elements together that He used to make the man. That is why in the beginning God made the Heavens and the Earth.
     
  20. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    They were not changed into it---they were made that way from the start.



    I was not looking for the word I presented it in post #90

    Strong's Concordance
    ginomai: to come into being, to happen, to become
    Original Word: γίνομαι
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: ginomai
    Phonetic Spelling: (ghin'-om-ahee)
    Short Definition: I come into being, am born
    Definition: I come into being, am born, become, come about, happen.

    DO(Verb): To bring to pass; to bring about; to act or make. Hebrew: עשה ah.sh.h-com. Alt. Trans.: make; use Strong's: #6213
    עסו [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] Definition: The making or doing of anything.
    DOING: Hebrew: עסו a-sah-masc. KJV Translations: n/a Strong's: [Found in names only]
    MTT: Genesis 1

    For we are dust and unto dust we return. God made the dust.
    Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
    Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

    In every instance of creation, God spoke, and it was so. When God commands, it is done right then and there. Unless He says--become a living thing in 2 million years, it will happen right then.

    Psa_33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

    You have not posted anything that states any man was on the dust before Adam and Eve.
    And it would be helpful if you posted
    your source.

    Where does it say God let the land do anything? Each day was an evening and a morning---
    The Hebrew word for day is yom and this word appears in Scriptures over 1400 times. And without exception this word, when written in the singular sense, means day. And that's it. Never anything else. Eons are indicated with the plural form: days, as in the days of such and such. The most popular counter argument is that the meaning of our word is fiercely restricted to 'day' for about a thousand times in the sequential Scriptures, but in the secluded chapter of Genesis 1 means something completely different! But honestly, if in Genesis 1 our word should have meant 'long time' it would have said 'long time'. There are words available in Hebrew that mean just that. None of which occur in Genesis 1.
    The word as used in Genesis 1 means day and day alone. There's no way around it, and every serious theory to make (systematic, not theological) sense out of Genesis 1 should first and foremost address the yom-problem.
    The Hebrew word for day is yom and this word appears in Scriptures over 1400 times. And without exception this word, when written in the singular sense, means day. And that's it. Never anything else. Eons are indicated with the plural form: days, as in the days of such and such. The most popular counter argument is that the meaning of our word is fiercely restricted to 'day' for about a thousand times in the sequential Scriptures, but in the secluded chapter of Genesis 1 means something completely different! But honestly, if in Genesis 1 our word should have meant 'long time' it would have said 'long time'. There are words available in Hebrew that mean just that. None of which occur in Genesis 1.
    The word as used in Genesis 1 means day and day alone. There's no way around it, and every serious theory to make (systematic, not theological) sense out of Genesis 1 should first and foremost address the yom-problem.

    בַּיֹּום (ba-yom)
    This is the word יום (yom) meaning “day” with the prefix ב (ba) meaning “in.” Combined these mean “in the day.”
    Daytime (יומם yomam, Strong's #3119): This word is derived from the word yom [str:3117] meaning "day" which can refer to a twenty-four hour period or daytime. The word yomam always refers to the daylight hours, the time between sunup and sundown.


    Gen.2:17
    "but from the tree of discernment of function and dysfunction you will not eat from him, given that in the day you eat from him you will surely die,"
    There it is : {בְּיוֹם / bê'yom
    Which is different from the {יוֹם / yom} used in the Genesis 1 account.
    The yom problem in addressing Genesis 1
     
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