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Was Adam the FIRST Food Producer??? GENERATIONS ???

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by joshua 1 9, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is a difference between natural selection and artificial selection or selective breeding. They still use the term animal husbandry. The Bible in Genesis 3 calls Adam a Husband and his wife a women, not just male and female.

    Science looks at the prairie voles oxytocin, because they mate for life. It is rare though for animals to mate for life. It could be that Adam and Eve were the first married couple or the first husband and wife.

    Although it is not unusual to find ancient remains of ancient couples that appear to be embracing.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. DogmaHunter

    DogmaHunter Code Monkey

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    1. adam and eve are mythical humans that never existed. Human population never consisted of just 2 individuals.

    2. farming developed multiple times around the world in various human populations and did not radiate out of the middle east, like you like to claim.

    3. when science talks about common ancestry in context of evolution, it talks about ancestral species, not individuals.

    4. prime example of how you misrepresent science to forcefit it into your a priori faith based beliefs while also ignoring the bits that you can't forcefit into it. You are not following the evidence. Instead, you are trying to lead the evidence to the place where you want it to go.
     
  3. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Talk is cheap, you need to produce some evidence.

    Swing and a miss. Nice try though. What makes Adam and Eve unique is that they both lived at the same time. Usually the matriarch and patriarch do not live at the same time. The fact that the common ancestor for the Hebrew people lived at the same point in time is a very unique situation and further proof for the Bible. Also the common ancestor for this group of people lived MUCH more recent in time then all of the other groups or genetic haplotype or genotypes. While Adam and Eve lived around 6,000 years ago the other groups common anestors live 30,000 or more years ago.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  4. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We can go into this in as much detail as you want. If you want to deal in truth instead of misinformation. Because a very simple google search would prove you and your information wrong with no bases in any kind of research or study.

    The earliest farmers lived in the Fertile Crescent, a region in the Middle East including modern-day Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Israel, Palestine, southeastern Turkey and western Iran.Jul 15, 2016
    Farming invented twice in Middle East, genomes study reveals

    Bingo you just told on yourself. By accusing me you told us exactly what you are doing and you passed judgement on yourself. Job well done of showing us how you lack any substance or evidence to substantiate your claims.

    Really you make it to easy to refute your points when what you say is simply not supported by any evidenced produced through a simple google search. If you want to make claims you have to produce evidence to back up those claims.

    For someone called "dogmahunter" it looks like you produce a lot more dogma then you actually hunt. But that is usually the case that people are guilty of what they accuse others of. They just can not face it in themselves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  5. DogmaHunter

    DogmaHunter Code Monkey

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    1. you claim that adam and eve existed. Where is your evidence for that?

    2. genetics demonstrate that human population was never below a couple thousand (and that was some 70.000 years ago - it's called a genetic bottleneck)

    3. everything we know about biology tells us that the MVP (minimum viable population size) for terrestial vertebrates is around 500-1000 individuals - and those estimates don't even take into account the potential negative effects of inbreeding. So it's quite safe to say that a SINGLE breeding pair is utterly doomed to extinction and as unviable as it gets. Unless "magic", off course.

    Any time you wish to support it with evidence, instead of just repeating that claim.....


    Wait, so you in your opinion Adam and Eve weren't the first humans, like your bible so clearly states?

    Also: your evidence for this "common ancestor" (as in: SINGLE breeding couple) for all hebrews?
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  6. DogmaHunter

    DogmaHunter Code Monkey

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    History of agriculture - New World Encyclopedia

    Quote from the article, emphasis mine:

    By 7000 B.C.E., sowing and harvesting reached Mesopotamia and there, in the super fertile soil just north of the Persian Gulf, Sumerian ingenuity systematized it and scaled it up. By 6000 B.C.E. farming was entrenched on the banks of the Nile River. About this time, agriculture was developed independently in the Far East, probably in China, with rice rather than wheat as the primary crop. Maize was first domesticated, probably from teosinte, in the Americas around 3000-2700 B.C.E., though there is some archaeological evidence of a much older development. The potato, the tomato, the pepper, squash, several varieties of bean, and several other plants were also developed in the New World, as was quite extensive terracing of steep hillsides in much of Andean South America. Agriculture was also independently developed on the island of New Guinea


    So, I'll repeat: agriculture was developed all over the world multiple times independently. It did NOT develop just once in the middle-east and spread to the rest of the world from there.


    Nope.

    Google will serve you with other results then other people, based on the websites you frequent etc. It is very well possible that it will just serve you primarily with creationist propaganda.

    Says the guy who makes one bare claim after another.

    Uhu, uhu.

    And all that, based on your ignorance that farming developed multiple times independently, all over the world.
     
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  7. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    This is what well evidenced reality tells us.

    Of course for some, well evidenced reality is far too painful to acknowledge.
     
  8. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What is your point? Dispensationalism shows us that a day in Genesis is 1,000 years. I use the nano diamond comet as a marker for the beginning of the current era that we live in. This means the beginning was around 12,980 years ago. Genesis is 7 days and then in chapter two we find Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden on the eighth day. This is around 6,000 years ago. Bishop Ussher says Adam was born in October 4004 BC. Now lets look at what the Bible says in Genesis 2:4b: "there was not a man to till the ground."

    NOW present your evidence that anyone, anywhere in the world tilled or plowed the ground before Adam in the Year 4004BC in the Middle East in the Garden of Eden.

    You can continue to build strawman and burn down your own strawman, or we can read the Bible and see where you have any evidence at all to demonstrate that the Bible is not 100% accurate and true.

    Again show me what you have to demonstrate that Adam was not the first man to plow the ground.

    "Nanodiamond" Find Supports Comet Extinction Theory

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  9. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you want to deal with the Bible as literature that is fine. Go to your university and sign up for a Bible as literature class and we can talk about it. Or here is a class at Yale University on the Bible as literature. You can learn a lot and clear up a lot of your misconceptions if you would just put a little bit of effort into doing a study on the Bible as literature.

    If you want to claim that the Patriarch in the Bible are mythological then you have to reject science to make that claim. Also no where does science or any university consider the Bible to be a "myth". This just demonstrates that you have never taken a literature class and you do not know what literature is.

    My son took literature in High School and he took a literature class his first year at the University. Even a part of his literature class is to study the Bible as literature. Perhaps you need to take a literature class so you can understand how Science deals with the Bible as literature.

     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  10. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am sorry you feel that way because I feel that is a lot of value to a quality education. Why do you feel that it is to painful for you to acquire knowledge?
     
  11. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    Like i said...........
     
  12. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Nor does scripture claim that Adam And Eve were the first people. So your point is important. Cain and Able my not have been first. The same goes for their parents.
     
  13. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    All correct. Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the earth. They were physical. And they were the first of all mankind to be created in the image of God and given the The Breath of Life.
    And they were placed in a Paradise Garden where God walked and Serpents talked, and the tree of life and the tree of knowledge grew. There the animals all filed past Adam to be named by him. Then Adam was kicked out of the garden and angels with flaming swords guard the Garden so man cannot return.
    As the story reads, there are other people already outside the garden.
     
  14. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    They were the first humans to be given the breath of life and to be created in God's image with a soul that could die. Animals are not held to account and so do not have a soul that dies.
     
  15. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    And, i should believe this why exactly?
     
  16. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    There is not one single verse that states any other human was made before them. God was creating everything on the earth, certain things on certain days in a specific order. Nothing states anything about any other humans being made before Adam and Eve, before the decision to "let us make man"
     
  17. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    The whole earth was called Eden---it was the garden of Eden, the garden was not Eden, but in it.

    Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

    Where does it state there were others outside the garden before Adam and Eve were expelled?

    Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

    There was no man before Adam.
     
  18. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    Yet in that paper there is no suggestion of how farming reached east Asia where there is evidence of it from at least 8000 years ago and in the New World from 10,000 years ago. Clearly, nothing you have presented rules out the independent development of sedentary agriculture at various places around the world, rather than its radiation from the ANE.
     
  19. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    East asia has NOTHING to do with farming going from the Middle East to Europe. Asia is not interested in western food. If anything food from Asia spread to the west along the silk road. Asia has their own Eden. There are at least 18 Edens and the one we read about in the Bible is just one of many in the Biosphere that we call earth.

    Man did not evolve in the Middle East. This was where Neanderthals came from. Man came up out of Africa and God put him into the Garden in Eden. It is easy to go east and west. It is more difficult to go north and south because of the difference in the climate.

    17 most biodiverse places on earth - Matador Network
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  20. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The man God created in Genesis 1:28 (day6) was given the entire world to replenish. The man Adam in Genesis chapter two (day8) was given the Garden in Eden to tend and take care of.
     
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