Was 911 an inside job?

Was 911 carried out by the Government?

  • Yes or more likely than not

  • No.

  • I dont want to say.


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capnator

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Was 911 an inside job? Is there truth in the conspiracy theories?

Because indeed if the people in positions of power have indeed kick started this age of "terror" then there are indeed dark forces at work in positions of power around this world working to an end that will surely be to the detriment of the christian.



Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The whole world is not just going to one day out of random chance to just decide to wander after the beast.
 

Micahyah

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For people wanting to read more and get more information, a new book to check out is here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0664231179/sr=8-1/qid=1155709947/ref=sr_1_1/002-0669533-6430454?ie=UTF8

Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11: A Call to Reflection and Action
by David Ray Griffin

An article written about the theologian and his beliefs and his two prior books on research on 9/11 can be found here:

http://bohemian.com/bohemian/06.14.06/david-ray-griffin-0624.html

Unquestioned Answers
Nonconspiracy theorist David Ray Griffin takes aim at the official 9-11 story
By Steve Bhaerman, The Bohemian (North Bay Weekly) June 14, 2006


[...]
Fast forward to a sunny Sunday afternoon early last year when I found myself in Santa Rosa's Church of the Rose to hear Dr. David Ray Griffin, author of a book on the 9-11 attacks called The New Pearl Harbor, as well as The 9-11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions. Griffin, a soft-spoken retired professor of theology with sandy, graying hair, proceeded to calmly and quietly dismantle the official 9-11 story. The room was filled to standing with people of all ages, many of whom attended the church. As Griffin made his case for how the official story could never have happened the way they said it did, I looked around me. Everyone was riveted, and yet I could detect no fear, no paranoia in the room.

People were hearing his message--the essentials of which are that our government likely knew about or had something to do with the 9-11 attacks--and yet there was something about his delivery that was reassuring. I've heard David Ray Griffin twice since then, once at a small gathering of world government advocates, the other time at the prestigious Commonwealth Club in San Francisco. Each event had a similar ambiance: a calm, thoughtful, scholarly presentation without the least hint of sensationalism or personal glory.

Whatever one's assumption of what a "conspiracy theorist" is like, David Ray Griffin doesn't fit the mold, perhaps because he's really a nonconspiracy theorist. While he methodically deconstructs the official story, he doesn't spin his own alternative yarn to fill the vacuum. Instead, he allows audience members to draw their own conclusions. As for conspiracy theories, he explains, "the official story is itself a conspiracy theory. As the accepted 'conspiracy theory' goes, a cadre of al Qaida operatives conspired to hijack four jetliners, did so undetected and were able to complete their mission with no interception or even interference from the best-prepared air force on the face of the earth."

Even more unusual, Griffin says, "the crime was solved immediately, and the official story was in place before the day of the attack was over. Within 48 hours, our president stood at the National Cathedral surrounded by Billy Graham, a cardinal, a rabbi and an imam, and used this religious setting to declare a holy war on terror."
[...]

False Flags

While Griffin professes no formulated alternative theory of what did happen, he offers a clue in the title of his first book. A New Pearl Harbor refers to a passage in a document called Project for the New American Century--the neocons' blueprint for what they call "pax Americana"--which says that for the American people to accept the overt military mission of creating security through world domination, a "new Pearl Harbor" would be needed. Griffin believes that the 9-11 attacks were just that.

This is a pretty serious--and horrific--assertion to make: that the leaders of our country would see fit to sacrifice some 3,000 civilians so that we could launch a preemptive attack on a perceived enemy. And yet, Griffin is quick to point out, our history is rife with just such incidents, from the "remember the Maine" boosterism preceding the Spanish-American war to the Gulf of Tonkin lie that launched U.S. involvement in Vietnam to the Pearl Harbor attacks themselves. Indeed, recent scholarship on Pearl Harbor suggests that President Roosevelt knew of the attack plan in advance and even purposely provoked the Japanese, because he knew it was the only way we could join the war against Germany. This in itself offers a dicey moral dilemma: Is it justified to sacrifice thousands of lives to save millions of lives?

During the Cold War, two more chilling examples of so-called false flag operations have come to light. (False flag operations are covert situations conducted by governments or other organizations that are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities.) In his recent book, NATO's Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe, Dr. Daniele Ganser, a senior researcher at the Center for Security Studies, Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, reports that NATO, guided by the CIA, supported terrorist attacks on civilians in various European countries to discredit the left and create fear on the part of the populace.

In Italy, right-wing terrorists, supplied by a secret army (named "Gladio," Latin for "sword"), carried out bomb attacks in public places, blamed them on the Italian left and were thereafter protected from prosecution by the military secret service. As right-wing terrorist Vincenzo Vinciguerra explains in Ganser's book, "The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security."

In our own country during the early '60s, the Joint Chiefs of Staff under the command of Gen. Lyman Lemnitzer came up with a similar plan to provoke an attack on Cuba. According to NSA myth-buster James Bamford in his 2001 Random House publication Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency, the Joint Chiefs called for undercover operation of terror within the United States that included plans for "innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war."

President John F. Kennedy nixed the plan immediately, and it was never put into action. But it did have the approval of top military brass, and with the right president--or the wrong one--it could very well have come about.

In the aftermath of 9-11, Griffin initially dismissed any speculation that the attacks could have been an inside job. "I subscribed to the 'blow-back' theory," Griffin says. "After generations of exploitation and interference by Western powers, these people had such fury that they had to lash out any way they could."

At the time, Griffin, who was close to retirement from his position at Claremont School of Theology, was working on a book on global democracy. In the wake of 9-11, he decided that he needed a special chapter on U.S. imperialism. He worked on that chapter for over a year before he came to the view that 9-11 was an inside job. "As much as I knew about prior false flag operations, as much as I knew or thought I knew about the nefariousness of the current regime, my first take was not even the Bush administration could or would do such a thing."
[...]

Collective Evil

Of course, the top echelon of leaders in this country aren't exactly your usual run-of-the-lineup perps--which, according to Griffin, is why those who've pointed fingers at the emperor's bare buttocks in this case have been marginalized like a bunch of tinfoil-headed kooks. No argument about this. I've asked a number of savvy authors and commentators why they haven't taken on the unanswered questions and unquestioned answers around 9-11. Their answers have been pretty much the same: It's just too big a stretch for most Americans to believe their own government could have had anything to do with it. However, in an exceedingly underreported Zogby poll done just last month, 42 percent of adults polled believe the U. S. government and the 9-11 Commission "concealed or refused to investigate critical evidence" that contradicts the official explanation of the attacks.
[...]

You know the official story, for critiques of it, go to www.st911.org, for critiques of those critiques, go to www.911mythbusters.org.
 
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Jipsah

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Micahyah said:
as for conspiracy theories, he explains, "the official story is itself a conspiracy theory. As the accepted 'conspiracy theory' goes, a cadre of al Qaida operatives conspired to hijack four jetliners, did so undetected and were able to complete their mission with no interception or even interference from the best-prepared air force on the face of the earth."
Not a "conspiracy story", unless like most of the people who have constructed the elaborate 9-11 mythologies you're a conspiracy buff and believe that everything from increases in the price of potato chips to tornadoes in Oklahoma is the result of a conspiracy. The story of 9-11 is a story as old as governments, where a fat and complacent country gets sucker punched.

"Hijackers take over a plane with knives? Fat chance!" I flew from Jacksonville to Nashville the week before 9-11. When I emptied my pockets at security I remembered that I was still carrying a largish pocket knife. I dropped it in the bucket and expected to have it taken away. The girl opened it, laid the blade across the palm of her hand to check its length, closed it and handed it back to me. They weren't looking for anything as mundane as pocket knives, they were looking for real weapons.

The hijack crews were Middle Eastern men who bought one way tickets with cash and had no luggage. Everything about them shouted "Hijack crew!" in a loud voice. But caught up in the posturings of "political correctness", the security people (such as they were) weren't supposed to "profile" anyone in what could be construed as a "racist" manner. On the planes they got.

Once the planes started dropping off the ATC radars there was a flurry of activity, but it wasn't until after all the planes (except flight 93) had slammed into their targets that fighters came anywhere close to where they'd been. There were no combat air patrols being flown anywhere, and hadn't been for years. Fighters were (and to a large extent, are) poised to take on aerial threats from outside the US, not within it. The best air force in the world got caught flat footed.

History is replete with examples of precisely this sort of thing happening. The cascade governmental screw-up has been the proximate cause of more disasters than can be counted. There's no reason to believe that it will cease to be in the foreseeable future. It was certainly what allowed the Muslim Murderers to drop the Trade Center.

Of course, as I said, conspiracy buffs don't buy it. Simple answers don't appeak to them; they much prefer Rube Goldberg constructs of interlocking conspiracies dedicated to something or the other and covert groups of supermen who manipulate events to bring about outcomes too subtle for normal folks to understand.

This is a pretty serious--and horrific--assertion to make
"Stupid" would be closer to the mark.
 
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gwynedd1

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Jipsah said:
Not a "conspiracy story", unless like most of the people who have constructed the elaborate 9-11 mythologies you're a conspiracy buff and believe that everything from increases in the price of potato chips to tornadoes in Oklahoma is the result of a conspiracy. The story of 9-11 is a story as old as governments, where a fat and complacent country gets sucker punched.

"Hijackers take over a plane with knives? Fat chance!" I flew from Jacksonville to Nashville the week before 9-11. When I emptied my pockets at security I remembered that I was still carrying a largish pocket knife. I dropped it in the bucket and expected to have it taken away. The girl opened it, laid the blade across the palm of her hand to check its length, closed it and handed it back to me. They weren't looking for anything as mundane as pocket knives, they were looking for real weapons.

The hijack crews were Middle Eastern men who bought one way tickets with cash and had no luggage. Everything about them shouted "Hijack crew!" in a loud voice. But caught up in the posturings of "political correctness", the security people (such as they were) weren't supposed to "profile" anyone in what could be construed as a "racist" manner. On the planes they got.

Once the planes started dropping off the ATC radars there was a flurry of activity, but it wasn't until after all the planes (except flight 93) had slammed into their targets that fighters came anywhere close to where they'd been. There were no combat air patrols being flown anywhere, and hadn't been for years. Fighters were (and to a large extent, are) poised to take on aerial threats from outside the US, not within it. The best air force in the world got caught flat footed.

History is replete with examples of precisely this sort of thing happening. The cascade governmental screw-up has been the proximate cause of more disasters than can be counted. There's no reason to believe that it will cease to be in the foreseeable future. It was certainly what allowed the Muslim Murderers to drop the Trade Center.

Of course, as I said, conspiracy buffs don't buy it. Simple answers don't appeak to them; they much prefer Rube Goldberg constructs of interlocking conspiracies dedicated to something or the other and covert groups of supermen who manipulate events to bring about outcomes too subtle for normal folks to understand.

"Stupid" would be closer to the mark.


Pretext for war? I can use the same line:

History is replete with examples of precisely this sort of thing happening.

What history have you people been reading?

The whole 20th centruy was set up on a pretext when Bismark lured France to fight Prussia. Why? He wanted to unify Germany.

What utter and absolute non-sense that wars are mere accidents.
 
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lordvoldemort

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capnator said:
Was 911 an inside job? Is there truth in the conspiracy theories?

Because indeed if the people in positions of power have indeed kick started this age of "terror" then there are indeed dark forces at work in positions of power around this world working to an end that will surely be to the detriment of the christian.



Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The whole world is not just going to one day out of random chance to just decide to wander after the beast.

Why must everyone quote a verse when something happens.

As far as i can tell the world hates us for what we did afterwards.

So No UBL is responsible for 9/11
 
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Micahyah

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Jipsah said:
Not a "conspiracy story", unless like most of the people who have constructed the elaborate 9-11 mythologies you're a conspiracy buff and believe that everything from increases in the price of potato chips to tornadoes in Oklahoma is the result of a conspiracy. The story of 9-11 is a story as old as governments, where a fat and complacent country gets sucker punched.

Jipsah, a conspiracy is a crime committed by multiple people working together, so it is an indisputable fact that 9/11 was done by a conspiracy, that's the point. You choose to believe the government's theory abou the conspiracy, despite the fact that the FBI publicly admits it has no hard evidence linking Osama Bin Laden to the Crime. You can go to the Most Wanted list and check for yourself.

Jipsah said:
The hijack crews were Middle Eastern men who bought one way tickets with cash and had no luggage. Everything about them shouted "Hijack crew!" in a loud voice. But caught up in the posturings of "political correctness", the security people (such as they were) weren't supposed to "profile" anyone in what could be construed as a "racist" manner. On the planes they got.

The hijack crews were trained on military bases in florida, and FBI officials and military intelligence officials were living next door, remember that? A couple went to a military-run defense language school. Congressman Curt Weldon pointed out on the floor of Congress that there was an Able Danger program dealing with several members of this group that had all of its data destroyed criminally.

Jipsah said:
Once the planes started dropping off the ATC radars there was a flurry of activity, but it wasn't until after all the planes (except flight 93) had slammed into their targets that fighters came anywhere close to where they'd been. There were no combat air patrols being flown anywhere, and hadn't been for years.

This is a lie, there were over 60 interceptions by fighters in the year prior to 9/11. Also, Norman Mineta testified to the commission that in the White House Bunker Cheney and an aide were talking about the plane approaching the pentagon from 100 miles out, then 75 miles out, then 50 miles out, then 25 miles out. Cheney said, the order still stands. And we know that no defense or even an alarm went off in the Pentagon before the plane hit the building. Again, this is sworn testimony given to the 9/11 Commission by the Secretary of Transportation about the Vice President.

Jipsah said:
Fighters were (and to a large extent, are) poised to take on aerial threats from outside the US, not within it. The best air force in the world got caught flat footed.

Actually, there were several war games scheduled on 9/11, some having to do with hijacked airliners. This came out in the recent Vanity Fair article. The 9/11 Commissioners are coming out with a book saying that the pentagon lied to them about the war games, one commissioner, Max Cleland, quit over these lies.

Jipsah said:
History is replete with examples of precisely this sort of thing happening. The cascade governmental screw-up has been the proximate cause of more disasters than can be counted. There's no reason to believe that it will cease to be in the foreseeable future. It was certainly what allowed the Muslim Murderers to drop the Trade Center.

History is replete with governments attacking themselves (real or fake) and then blaming it on fringe groups and enemies, like what Nero did to the Christians, or the Reichstag fire that Hitler did, or Operation Gladio where the CIA did terror attacks to topple the leader of Iran, or the Polish radio station that Hitler used to invade Poland, or the Tonkin Gulf incident used to escalate the Vietnam War, or the USS Liberty incident, etc.
 
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Micahyah

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Who is Paul Craig Roberts?

Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy under Ronald Reagan (awarded the Treasury Department's Meritorious Service Award for "his outstanding contributions to the formulation of United States economic policy.")

Senior Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and Research Fellow at the Independent Institute.

Former editor and columnist for The Wall Street Journal and columnist for Business Week and the Scripps Howard News Service

Held the William E. Simon Chair in Political Economy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (1982 -1993)

Distinguished Fellow at the Cato Institute from 1993 to 1996

Olin Fellow at the Institute for Political Economy

Nationally syndicated columnist for Investor's Business Daily

Winner of the 1992 Warren Brookes Award for Excellence in Journalism

Ranked "One of the top seven journalists" by the Forbes Media Guide (1993)

Author of, The Tyranny of Good Intentions, and Marx's Theory of Exchange, Alienation and Crisis

Dr. Roberts was educated at the Georgia Institute of Technology ( B.S.), the University of Virginia (Ph.D.), the University of California at Berkeley and Oxford University where he was a member of Merton College.

He is listed in Who's Who in America, Who's Who in the World , The Dictionary of International Biography, Outstanding People of the Twentieth Century, and 1000 Leaders of World Influence.

Could anyone in their right mind consider this man a crackpot "conspiracy theorist"?

What we know and don’t know about 9/11

Paul Craig Roberts


08/16/06 "Information Clearing House" -- -- I received a number of intelligent responses from readers of my August 14 column, “Gullible Americans,” The letters deserve a reply. Moreover, some contain important points that should be shared with a wider audience. Pundits such as myself are not the only people who have interesting things to say. Considering the number of letters and the time it would require to respond individually, I am replying instead in this column.

Most readers from whom I heard understand the difference between loyalty to country and loyalty to a government. They understand that to support a political party or a government that is destroying the US Constitution and America’s reputation in the world is, in fact, an act of treason. Therefore, I did not have to read the usual drivel about how doubting “our government” is un-American.

Among the issues raised are:

How could the complicity of the US government, or some part of it, in the events of 9/11 be kept a secret? For the most part, this question comes from Americans who believe the government must have been, to some extent, complicit in the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon.

How can we differentiate between the real facts, the 9/11 Commission’s reporting of the facts, and “conspiracy theories”?

What about the role of suicide flyers led by M. Atta?

What about the Popular Mechanics article and the TV documentary that debunk the skeptics and support the official explanation of 9/11?

What about the role of the US media in propagandizing Americans with the official explanation instead of examining the explanation, especially with regard to such truncated hatchet-job interviews with 9/11 skeptics such as the hatchet jobs presided over by Donny Deutsch on CNBC and by neocon Tucker Carlson on MSNBC?

Why are so many Americans hostile to holding the Bush regime accountable for its obvious and documented lies, lies that have misled America to war and gratuitously slaughtered and maimed tens of thousands of people, including our own troops?

I will begin by stating what we know to be a solid incontrovertible scientific fact.

We know that it is strictly impossible for any building, much less steel columned buildings, to “pancake” at free fall speed. Therefore, it is a non-controversial fact that the official explanation of the collapse of the WTC buildings is false.

We also know for a fact that the Air Force somehow inexplicably failed to intercept the alleged hijacked airliners despite the fact that the Air Force can launch jet fighters to 29,000 feet in 2.5 minutes. We also know that the two co-chairmen of the 9/11 Commission have just written a book that reveals that the US military lied to the Commission about its failure to intercept the hijacked airliners.

There are various explanations for this second fact. The military could have lied to cover up complicity or to cover-up its incompetence. However, no investigation has been made to ascertain the true explanation for the failure.

This leaves us with the incontrovertible fact that buildings cannot “pancake” at free fall speeds.

The only explanation known to science for the free fall collapse of a building, especially into its own footprint, is engineered demolition, which removes the supports for each floor of the building at split second intervals so that the debris from above meets no resistance on its fall. To call this explanation a “conspiracy theory” is to display the utmost total ignorance. Any physicist or engineer who maintains that buildings can “pancake” at free fall speed has obviously been bought and paid for or is a total incompetent fool.

The WTC buildings are known to have collapsed at free fall speed into their own footprints.

This fact does not tell us who is responsible or what purpose was served.

Since the damning incontrovertible fact has not been investigated, speculation and “conspiracy theories” have filled the void. Some of the speculation is based on circumstantial evidence and is plausible. Other of the speculation is untenable, and it is used to protect the official explanation by branding all skeptics “conspiracy theorists.” I would not be surprised if some of the most far-out “conspiracy theories” consist, in fact, of disinformation put out by elements in the government to discredit all skeptics. But I do not know this to be the case.

How could government complicity be kept a secret? It can be kept a secret, because so many Americans are scientifically ignorant and emotionally weak. They are incapable of realizing the contradiction in the government’s claim that the WTC buildings “pancaked” at free fall speed, and they are emotionally incapable of confronting the evil of the Bush regime. Many Christians think that Bush is “a man of God” who is protecting American morality from homosexuals and abortionists. Others who wear their patriotism on their sleeves think Bush is standing up for America and innocent Israel, and that they must not let anti-American anti-war protesters cause America to lose another war and repeat the Vietnam experience. Americans are both ignorant and full of resentments against the left. This makes them easily manipulated by the neoconservatives who dominate the Bush regime and the media.

Also, many anti-war and anti-Bush online sites are scared of being called “crazy conspiracy kooks.” They protect their sites by staying away from the 9/11 issue, just as so many Americans are scared to death of being called “anti-semitic” and thereby do not dare criticize Israel no matter the heinous war crimes that state routinely commits. Of all the online subscribers to my column, only vdare.com and NewsMax had the courage to post my column. Realizing that even antiwar sites would serve as de facto gatekeepers for the neocons, I offered the column to ICH, whose editor cannot be intimidated.

The Popular Mechanics article and the TV documentary are obviously false since they both endorse the official explanation that the WTC buildings “pancaked” at free fall speed, an obvious scientific impossibility. Whether the false reporting by Popular Mechanics and television are due to incompetence or to complicity in a government cover-up, I do not know.

We know nothing about alleged suicide flyers led by M. Atta except what the government has told us, a government that has lied to us about everything else, such as Iraq’s alleged WMD and alleged links to Osama bin Laden, and Iran’s alleged nuclear weapons program, a program for which the International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors cannot find evidence.

According to reports, the BBC has found 6 of the alleged suicide hijackers alive and well in their home countries. I do not know if the report is true, but I do know that the report has been ignored and there has been no investigation. Both the US government and the US media have turned a blind eye. We have no way of knowing if Atta and his named accomplices hijacked the planes, or, if they did, whether they were dupes of intelligent services that pretended to be a terrorist cell and organized the cover for the engineered demolition.

The fact that we do not know any of these things, and the fact that the 9/11 Commission co-chairmen now tell us that their report is flawed, are good indications that we have no documented information of who was behind the plot, why it occurred, or how it operated.

With regard to the role of the US media, if it is indeed a media rather than a propaganda ministry, one reader cited remarks by the distinguished investigative reporter, John Pilger, made in an address at Columbia University on 14 April 2006:

“During the Cold War, a group of Russian journalists toured the United States. On the final day of their visit, they were asked by their hosts for their impressions. ‘I have to tell you,’ said their spokesman, ‘that we were astonished to find after reading all the newspapers and watching TV, that all the opinions on all the vital issues were by and large, the same. To get that result in our country, we imprison people, we tear out their fingernails. Here, you don’t have that. What’s the secret? How do you do it?’”

This quote is probably apocryphal, but it is well used to make a valid point. The answer to the Russian’s question is that during the cold war the American public viewed the Soviet Union as a dangerous adversary and were amenable to reports to that effect. The fact that the Soviets were a potentially dangerous adversary made Americans blind to the roles of the US military-industrial complex, which benefitted financially from cultivating the adversary relationship, and the US government, which benefitted politically from cultivating the adversary relationship, in keeping the adversarial relationship alive.

The uniformity of the US media has become much more complete since the days of the cold war. During the 1990s, the US government permitted an unconscionable concentration of print and broadcast media that terminated the independence of the media. Today the US media is owned by 5 giant companies in which pro-Zionist Jews have disproportionate influence. More importantly, the values of the conglomerates reside in the broadcast licenses, which are granted by the government, and the corporations are run by corporate executives--not by journalists--whose eyes are on advertising revenues and the avoidance of controversy that might produce boycotts or upset advertisers and subscribers. Americans who rely on the totally corrupt corporate media have no idea what is happening anywhere on earth, much less at home.

Despite the dark days in which we live, some readers find optimism in recent polls that show more than one-third of the US public now disbelieve the official account of 9/11 despite the Bush regime’s propaganda faithfully trumpeted by the US media. Bush’s own rock-bottom polls show that Americans, like the Russians of the Soviet era, can read between the lines of the propagandistic US media. Many Americans can still spot a liar and a cheat when they see one.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.
 
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Jipsah

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Micahyah said:
it is an indisputable fact that 9/11 was done by a conspiracy
Yeah, by ObL and his Islamic Kamikazes.

You choose to believe the government's theory abou the conspiracy, despite the fact that the FBI publicly admits it has no hard evidence linking Osama Bin Laden to the Crime.
I don't care diddly about bin Laden. I think he's the obvious culprit, but it wasn't him it was somebody else of his ilk.

The hijack crews were trained on military bases in florida, and FBI officials and military intelligence officials were living next door, remember that?
So? I live three doors down from a cop and next door to the curator of the Tennessee State Museum. Zat mean if I climb up o a water tower with the deer rifle they'll have had something to do with it? Well, I reckon in your mind it would...

This is a lie, there were over 60 interceptions by fighters in the year prior to 9/11.
Define "interceptions". Interceptions of what? And with how much notice? How long did it take them to intercept their targets? Were the targets taking evasive action?

Also, Norman Mineta testified to the commission that in the White House Bunker Cheney and an aide were talking about the plane approaching the pentagon from 100 miles out, then 75 miles out, then 50 miles out, then 25 miles out. Cheney said, the order still stands. And we know that no defense or even an alarm went off in the Pentagon before the plane hit the building.
That's 'cause right up until the last minute they thought that plane was going for the White House. Which it probably was until the slug at the stick realized that he might miss the White House but was reasonably sure of hitting the Pentagon.

History is replete with governments attacking themselves
Always with a specific intent in mind, not simply because they were Bad Guys and it's the End of the World. Cui bono? Nobody in this case.
 
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Micahyah

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Jipsah said:
Yeah, by ObL and his Islamic Kamikazes.
So? I live three doors down from a cop and next door to the curator of the Tennessee State Museum. Zat mean if I climb up o a water tower with the deer rifle they'll have had something to do with it? Well, I reckon in your mind it would...

Supposed terrorists being trained on military bases and at military run schools is entirely different from your straw man argument, and you know it.

Jipsah said:
Define "interceptions". Interceptions of what? And with how much notice? How long did it take them to intercept their targets? Were the targets taking evasive action?

Aircraft off course, depends on the incident, like I said, there were over 60 of them.

Jipsah said:
That's 'cause right up until the last minute they thought that plane was going for the White House. Which it probably was until the slug at the stick realized that he might miss the White House but was reasonably sure of hitting the Pentagon.

No, the testimony was not about a plane heading specifically towards the White House, check the testimony.

Jipsah said:
Always with a specific intent in mind, not simply because they were Bad Guys and it's the End of the World. Cui bono? Nobody in this case.

Cui bono? Where do we start? How about Project for a new American century, which wanted to reshape America's foreign policy, but said it would take "a catastrophic, catalyzing event". This was written september of 2000. It just so happens many of the signatories were working in the administration then, like Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et. al.

How about the fact that people wanted a pipeline in Afghanistan. In the summer of 2001, we told the Taliban that we would either shower them with gold, or shower them with bombs, based on whether or not they gave us the pipeline. They refused. The afghanistan operation was planned before 9/11.

Then we have Iraq, that people wanted to topple for years and years, and was in the plans of PNAC and the plans of operation Clean Break, presented to Netanyahu by a policy group that included Richard Perle, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Libby, Douglas Feith, you starting to get the picture?

Who benefits leads you straight to the culprits in this case.

Who divided up the oil fields of Iraq in the summer of 2001 with secret meetings the Congress were not a part of, just the oil company heads? VP Cheney.

Who talked in his first policy meeting in Feb 2001 about getting into Iraq any way, andy how? Bush

Who has made hundreds of billions off of contracts, both military and construction? Carlyle Group, Bechtel, Halliburton, etc.

Were many of the people sitting on those boards involved in conspiracies in the past like the Iran-Contra affair? yes.
 
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lordvoldemort

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one scandal does not mean that another scandal or conspiracy comes from that.

To quote Bill O'Reilly Put down the kool aid. . .

This is turing into a conspiracy theory. Haliburton and such being behind it and such, nothing but conjecture. In War certain companies will profit from it, just because they are in the war business.

The problem with some of the alegations could be taken more seriously, but where for the fact, that there is a "I hate Bush" group that has endorsed these theories.

So if any one is gettin info from them, put down the kool aid and stop drinking it ;) ( i mean this is fun :D)
 
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Micahyah

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lordvoldemort said:
one scandal does not mean that another scandal or conspiracy comes from that.

To quote Bill O'Reilly Put down the kool aid. . .

Quoting Bill O'Reilly is like drinking kool aid.

lordvoldemort said:
This is turing into a conspiracy theory. Haliburton and such being behind it and such, nothing but conjecture. In War certain companies will profit from it, just because they are in the war business.

The government has a conspiracy theory, and people that don't believe the government have a conspiracy theory. Everyone has a theory, its all about which theory is correct.

lordvoldemort said:
The problem with some of the alegations could be taken more seriously, but where for the fact, that there is a "I hate Bush" group that has endorsed these theories.

Its not an I hate Bush group, many of the most prominent members come from conservatives that worked for Reagan, Bush Sr., and even W himself, like:

Former Chief Economist under George Bush, and professor at Texas A&M, Morgan Reynolds. http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds12.html

Former Director of Advanced Space Programs Development for the U.S. Air Force, under President Reagan, and combat fighter pilot Col. Robert Bowman (Caltech Phd in aeronautics and nuclear engineering).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6900065571556128674

Former CIA Intelligence Advisor to Reagan and George HW Bush and founder of the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, Ray McGovern
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Researchers_questioning_the_official_account_of_9/11
Kevin Ryan, former department head at UL (Underwriter Laboratories) the company which certified the steel which went into the WTCs upon their construction, and inspected it after the WTC collapses in 2001.
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041112144051451

Former assistant secretary of the U.S. Treasury Senior Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Research Fellow at Stanford's Independent Institute, and former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal, Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.wanttoknow.info/050908insidejob911#roberts
Canadian National Defense Minister, the Honourable Paul Hellyer
http://www.septembereleventh.org/kc/multimedia/movies/Hellyer.mov
Minister for the Environment, and Member of Parliament (United Kingdom) Michael Meacher
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8274552561914055825

National Minister of Defense (Germany). Also, served as Minister of Technology Andreas Von Bulow
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8274552561914055825

Former Chief of Staff of the Russian armed forces, and chief of the department for General affairs in the Soviet Union 's ministry of Defense, General Leonid Ivashov
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NIM20060123&articleId=1788
Former MI6 British Counter Intelligence Officer, David Shayler
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5403286136814574974

Professor of Physics, Brigham Young University, and co-chair of Scholars For 9/11 Truth, Steven Jones
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

Emeritus Professor of Philosophy of Religion & Theology, Claremont Graduate University, and author or editor of some 30 books, including "The New Pearl Harbor" and "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions" David Ray Griffin
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6837001821567284154

Professor of mathematics, University of Western Ontario, and founder of the Scientific Panel Investigating Nine-Eleven (SPINE), A.K Dewdney
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/operation_pearl.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._K._Dewdney

Aircraft crash investigation authority, USAF Col. (Ret) George Nelson
http://www.physics911.net/georgenelson.htm

Former chief Pentagon arms negotiator for the Middle East, USAF Col. (Ret) Don de Grand-Pre
http://www.prisonplanet.com/022904degrand.html

Former senior official of the CIA, Bill Christinson. He was a National Intelligence Officer and the Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis before his retirement in 1979. Since then he has written numerous articles on U.S. foreign policies.
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Aug06/Christison14.htm


You can not believe the conspiracy if you want, but don't try to say its a bunch of liberal Bush haters.
 
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lordvoldemort

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Most of it comes from that group or lean toward that group. That was why i said it.

Personally, UBL did it because he has made several references to doing it.

But why would the US Goverment do such a thing, that is what i can not wrap myself around? I dont want to hear it is money that motivates it, but there must be something concrete, definitive reason, as to why, the gov't or people in league with the gov't or certain parts of it, to do it?

1993 Muslim terrorist wanted to bring down the WTC, they almost did, if they moved the truck one support beam over, they would have. So with that pattern, i think they wanted to do it and had the desire to do it.

Put that aside, and can you give me a reason, as to why they could not have done it. One of my professors i had, had a friend who was a former muslim and from his experienced they were obsessed with bringing down the WTC, and he predicted that they would bring it down by anymeans.

So from what i have been told and informed in, WTC is brought down by UBL or associates.

Quoting Bill O'Reilly is like drinking kool aid.

hehe!
 
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gwynedd1

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Jipsah said:
Yeah, by ObL and his Islamic Kamikazes.

I don't care diddly about bin Laden. I think he's the obvious culprit, but it wasn't him it was somebody else of his ilk.

So? I live three doors down from a cop and next door to the curator of the Tennessee State Museum. Zat mean if I climb up o a water tower with the deer rifle they'll have had something to do with it? Well, I reckon in your mind it would...

Define "interceptions". Interceptions of what? And with how much notice? How long did it take them to intercept their targets? Were the targets taking evasive action?

That's 'cause right up until the last minute they thought that plane was going for the White House. Which it probably was until the slug at the stick realized that he might miss the White House but was reasonably sure of hitting the Pentagon.

Always with a specific intent in mind, not simply because they were Bad Guys and it's the End of the World. Cui bono? Nobody in this case.

I could explain all day. I could believe my government , even though they have lied and created pretexts for just about every war in the 20th century like Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, incubator babies etc. or I could believe my own "lying eyes".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBw9v0xs_9k&search=timelapse edinburgh demolition building
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic28...planet.com/articles/july2006/100706squibs.htm
 
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D

Driver

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Bin Laden denied any involvement in press releases a few days after the attack and in 2 later interviews (as well as the Taliban). Source The later alleged "confession" portrays "a much fatter" Bin Laden, with many other different features, and is considered by most to be a fake. The Bin Laden family is longtime friends of the Bush family and Osama has links to the CIA. Also, see why the Moussaoui confession (the so-called 20th hijacker) doesn't add up:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...107742,00.html


The physics of the WTC collapses as presented by BYU Physics Professor Steven Jones is very convincing. How did the Towers fall at nearly free-fall speed? Shouldn't there have been a slowing down of the speed due to the resistance encountered by the concrete floors? Also, how do you explain the molten metal in all 3 locations?

The Towers were desgined to withstand several impacts of Boeing 707's (the largest at the time) according to Frank Demartini (also a 9/11 vicitm):
"The building was designed to have a fully loaded Boeing 707 crash into it.That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain MULTIPLE IMPACTS OF JETLINERS because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door,...this intense grid,... and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting."

You Tube

 
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