Was 911 an inside job?

[Micahyah]

Personally, UBL did it because he has made several references to doing it.

Actually he denied it, as was listed above.

But why would the US Goverment do such a thing, that is what i can not wrap myself around? I dont want to hear it is money that motivates it, but there must be something concrete, definitive reason, as to why, the gov't or people in league with the gov't or certain parts of it, to do it?

American hegemony. Project for a New American Century. Also written about in Brezinski's [was in Carter's cabinet] 1996 work, the Grand Chess game. You are talking about people that see the world as their own global game of Risk. Alot of this has to do with countering China's rise and Russia's resurgence. Look at a map of the middle east and see how we have bought off Pakistan, invaded Afghanistan, invaded Iraq, and now are threatening Iran, basically putting a US-allied buffer to the middle east energy reserves. Seriously, click here and look at the map http://iweb.tntech.edu/pli/2005-S/map_middle_east.jpg

you really should read
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century

A Report of the Project for the New American Century
September 2000[/FONT]
​

That will answer you question about why, and what was to gain.​

 

[lordvoldemort]

I understand that America is trying to forge a new middle east at the expense of the soverignty of the arab/muslim countries.

Because the fear is if they unite once again, they could become a powerful force to be reckon with.

So the theory is that, US needed a pretext for war, so "rogue" agents octrastraded 9/11 in order to start the the new middle east program?

I will take alook at the links at another time, getting late here.

 

[Micahyah]

I understand that America is trying to forge a new middle east at the expense of the soverignty of the arab/muslim countries.

Because the fear is if they unite once again, they could become a powerful force to be reckon with.

I think it was less about worrying the Arab world would unite (the Sunni-Shiite conflict, the pro-secular-pro-Shariah divides it severely) and more looking at things as far as global politics and strategy. How to stop communist China, whose demand for oil is rising every year, from basically positioning itself and creating its own Hegemony eventually. Why wait until 2030 to make a strategic political move to secure American interests in the region, when you can do it now?

So the theory is that, US needed a pretext for war, so "rogue" agents octrastraded 9/11 in order to start the the new middle east program?

More or less. A group of policy makers, PNAC and their supporters, felt America would be slow to make the strategic moves they deemed necessary to secure America's future without a "catastrophic, catalyzing event".

 

[lordvoldemort]

I think it was less about worrying the Arab world would unite (the Sunni-Shiite conflict, the pro-secular-pro-Shariah divides it severely) and more looking at things as far as global politics and strategy. How to stop communist China, whose demand for oil is rising every year, from basically positioning itself and creating its own Hegemony eventually. Why wait until 2030 to make a strategic political move to secure American interests in the region, when you can do it now?



More or less. A group of policy makers, PNAC and their supporters, felt America would be slow to make the strategic moves they deemed necessary to secure America's future without a "catastrophic, catalyzing event".

theory wise it makes sense, in a tom clancy sort of way.
But i can look into it and see what comes of it.

 

[capnator]

one thing I can't understand is how the heck did the second plane manage to get through? this from a country that can go to war in 6 mins!

It was probably only being watched by about 45 different radars, maybe it was everybody's smoko break.

gov's around the world have a narsty history of doing these sorts of things but it works nicely everytime because the people are all like... maybe be in the past but not our gov, they love us.

But one thing is certain that afterwards the proganda campaign against terrorism to drum up support for war was pretty crazy here in Australia so I can only imagine what it was like in the U.S.

 

[applepowerpc]

The poll right now just about exactly reflects the outlook of the general population. The general population it's about a 50/50 split whether it was an inside job.

 

[robalan]

The poll right now just about exactly reflects the outlook of the general population. The general population it's about a 50/50 split whether it was an inside job.

What people believe and what is reality are two different things. It's kind of sad how our culture has turned into a nation of conspiracy theorists. I mean, does anybody ever use facts and empirical evidence when they blurt things out? I'm not taking a position on this specific issue. For all I know, it could have been an "inside job". But I just can't stand when people form all these postulations without taking a broad, exhaustive look at the facts. Some people will just hear a single, isolated fact which may be true, and then they jump to all sorts of conclusions. I seriously wish that the same criteria were used with political opinions that are used in the scientific method. Nobody's opinions are rigorously compared with the facts. The general public cannot know whether something is true or false. Anybody can have their opinion and, as long as they sound good and present their case with charisma, they will be listened to. Kind of sad.

 

[gwynedd1]

What people believe and what is reality are two different things. It's kind of sad how our culture has turned into a nation of conspiracy theorists. I mean, does anybody ever use facts and empirical evidence when they blurt things out? I'm not taking a position on this specific issue. For all I know, it could have been an "inside job". But I just can't stand when people form all these postulations without taking a broad, exhaustive look at the facts. Some people will just hear a single, isolated fact which may be true, and then they jump to all sorts of conclusions. I seriously wish that the same criteria were used with political opinions that are used in the scientific method. Nobody's opinions are rigorously compared with the facts. The general public cannot know whether something is true or false. Anybody can have their opinion and, as long as they sound good and present their case with charisma, they will be listened to. Kind of sad.

I have been a study of history for quite some time. What is sad is you claim to be a rational voice. If you had been a student of history then you would know conspiracy and deception is typical, not exceptional.
Discarding that I have also learned through pass times and games. I quickly learned that raw force in the open was always vigerously oppossed and defeated. A good chess player always wins by understanding the complexity and illusions. Until one becomes the dominant power beyond any opposition, war must be deception. Germany had lost WWII in 1939 when her motives were clear.
If there should be one example of what you say , I shall produce 5 of the other.

 

[gwynedd1]

Actually he denied it, as was listed above.



American hegemony. Project for a New American Century. Also written about in Brezinski's [was in Carter's cabinet] 1996 work, the Grand Chess game. You are talking about people that see the world as their own global game of Risk. Alot of this has to do with countering China's rise and Russia's resurgence. Look at a map of the middle east and see how we have bought off Pakistan, invaded Afghanistan, invaded Iraq, and now are threatening Iran, basically putting a US-allied buffer to the middle east energy reserves. Seriously, click here and look at the map http://iweb.tntech.edu/pli/2005-S/map_middle_east.jpg

you really should read
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century

A Report of the Project for the New American Century
September 2000[/FONT]
​

That will answer you question about why, and what was to gain.​

It is not just oil. It is also the "petrol dollar" or dollar oil bourse. Oil must be paid in dollars. This creates the need for world wide dollar reserves. The US can inflate the currency as a tax. The rising price of oil actually supports the dollar. So few people understand this they are mystified by rising oil but inflation being contained. Why? Its simple. More dollars are needed to pay for oil so more dollars are in demand against othe currencies. This is why the dollar has held up against other currencies. Its an oil backed currency. Lower oil prices will weaken demand for the dollar.

http://www.energybulletin.net/7707.html

 

[Micahyah]

The poll right now just about exactly reflects the outlook of the general population. The general population it's about a 50/50 split whether it was an inside job.

I agree, and this shows that the 9/11 commission did not do its job, and a new investigation definitely needs to be done.

Statement Regarding Pentagon’s Alleged Deception
Jersey Girls, August 4, 2006
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Group_of_widows_claim_911_Independent_0804.html
======

Mandate of the 9/11 Commission

The 9/11 Independent Commission was established by law to “... ascertain, evaluate, and report on the evidence developed by all relevant governmental agencies regarding the facts and circumstances surrounding the attacks; ...“make a full and complete accounting of the circumstances surrounding the attacks, and the extent of the United States' preparedness for, and immediate response to, the attacks...”

======

Recent stories in the Washington Post, the New York Times, as well as the release of the transcripts of the NORAD tapes in Vanity Fair, clearly show that the 9/11 Commission failed in its duties.

According to current reports, the Commission knew that it had been deceived by NORAD. In May 2003, representatives of NORAD testified, in full regalia, before the 9/11 Commission equipped with an easel and visual aids to highlight NORAD’s timeline for the day of 9/11. In June 2004, NORAD testified again, changing its previous testimony. The new timeline blamed the lack of military response on late notification by the FAA. The Commissioners never determined or explained why there was a discrepancy between the two sets of testimonies. Governor Kean is quoted in the Washington Post article as saying "we, to this day don't know why NORAD told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth ... It's one of those loose ends that never got tied".

The fact that the Commission did not see fit to tie up all loose ends in their final report or to hold those who came before them accountable for lying and/or making misleading statements puts into question the veracity of the entire Commission’s report. Individuals who came before the Commission to testify, after NORAD’s appearance, had no reason to state the truth. It was abundantly clear that there would be no repercussions for any misrepresentations.

Furthermore, the lack of tenacity and curiosity, by the Commissioners themselves, to determine why NORAD had deceived them is unconscionable. Knowing full well that the lack of military response was such a critical failure, begs the question of whether that same lack of tenacity and curiosity was applied to other critical areas of the 9/11 investigation.

We fought to establish the 9/11 Independent Commission because we believed that American citizens would be better served if our nation’s vulnerabilities were uncovered and then fixed.

Unfortunately, once again the failure to fully and properly investigate all areas, not follow all leads and not address the need for accountability, whether it be bureaucrats lying at a hearing or personnel with questionable performance of assigned duties, continues to leave this Nation and its citizens vulnerable and at risk.

The 9/11 Commission was derelict in its duties. What we needed from them was a thorough investigation into the events of September 11th. Inexcusably, five years later, we still do.


Patty Casazza

Monica Gabrielle

Mindy Kleinberg

Lorie Van Auken

 

[robalan]

I have been a study of history for quite some time. What is sad is you claim to be a rational voice. If you had been a student of history then you would know conspiracy and deception is typical, not exceptional.
Discarding that I have also learned through pass times and games. I quickly learned that raw force in the open was always vigerously oppossed and defeated. A good chess player always wins by understanding the complexity and illusions. Until one becomes the dominant power beyond any opposition, war must be deception. Germany had lost WWII in 1939 when her motives were clear.
If there should be one example of what you say , I shall produce 5 of the other.

I did not understand a single word you just said.

 

[Micahyah]

Austin Pastor Fights to Spread 9/11 Truth
Jones Report | August 17, 2006

Austin-based Unitarian Pastor Davidson Loehr has been questioning 9/11 and standing up against the lies of the government's official story for years.

He is now known for a February 12, 2006 sermon in which he accused the Bush administration of orchestrating the the September 11 attacks.

Loehr delivered a sermon regarding 9/11 as early as September 16, 2001, but from a rather different perspective. Loehr utilized his first sermon in a 'post-9/11' world to highlight the effects of "blowback"--consequences for the adverse effects of U.S. foreign policy from the eyes of many foreign nations, particularly in the Mid-East region.

Loehr's focus shifted on 9/11, but the subject remained an important one in his ministry. In his November 7, 2004 sermon entitled "Living Under Fascism," he stated that "I don't believe anyone can understand the past four years without reading the Project for a New American Century (PNAC)."

He has been a significant force in exposing the official lies regarding September 11 and continues to parlay to his church members information supporting that controversial view of those infamous attacks.

Those views reportedly divided some members of his church, who were said to walk out during Loehr's accusations against the Bush administration.

On August 2, 2006, Pastor Loehr presented Alex Jones' Martial Law 9/11 to crowd of about 200 people, some of which were members of his church and many who were simply members of the community. He prefaced the film by speaking about the activism of Alex Jones and giving background information on the government involvement with 9/11. That discussion can be viewed HERE

Pastor Davidson Loehr has previously been covered by and published in both the Austin-American Statesman (login required) and the Austin Chronicle. He was named "Austin's Best Minister/Spiritual Leader" by the Austin Chronicle in 2005, which is based upon votes by readers of the publication.

Loehr is the author of the book America, Fascism + God: Sermons from a Heretical Preacher published in 2005.

 

[gwynedd1]

I did not understand a single word you just said.

Your original statement:

"It's kind of sad how our culture has turned into a nation of conspiracy theorists"

I rejected it because it is not theory. There is nothing sad about being aware of it. What it sad is how ignorant everyone else is about how power works in the world, and it is not often for the good.

...
The Pharisees conspired against Jesus.
The Roman Senate conspired against Ceasar
Rommel Conspired against Hitler
The Bolshevicks conspired against the Czar.
Alexander VI conspired against the Colonna
John XII conspired against Otto I
The US conspired against Castro
....

It happens all the time. Perhaps you should read about Norman England. Motte and Bailey castels were monuments to the conspiracies of the Nobels against the Kings.

 

[inhisdebt]

Paranoia, is so unbecoming of christians !!!

 

[Driver]

When Jesus sent out the disciples, He said He was sending them as sheep among wolves and told them to be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves".

This was not being paranoid, but was the reality of the the world, not only then, but of the world we live in today. All of the disciples would eventually face hardship, persecution and (all but John) agonizing deaths. But Jesus told them not to fear men who can kill only the body but not the soul, but fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

Paul said we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

We shouldn't gullibly accept everything the major media and the Bush adminstration has said about 9/11, particularly when the evidence does not add up. This is part of what being "wise as serpents" means.

 

[inhisdebt]

When Jesus sent out the disciples, He said He was sending them as sheep among wolves and told them to be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves".

This was not being paranoid, but was the reality of the the world, not only then, but of the world we live in today. All of the disciples would eventually face hardship, persecution and (all but John) agonizing deaths. But Jesus told them not to fear men who can kill only the body but not the soul, but fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

Paul said we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

We shouldn't gullibly accept everything the major media and the Bush adminstration has said about 9/11, particularly when the evidence does not add up. This is part of what being "wise as serpents" means.

The evedence clearly shows two big airplanes fligh into two big buildings and then the two biuildings fall and go boom, to assume the airplanes had nothing to do with is moronic, it would take nearly a 1000 peaple to pull off a job that big with the government, thats a 1000 peaple voluntarily killing 3000 peaple for what. to support G Bush thats crazy, and then to have them keep quite for all this time, your assertations are impossible, preplanting exposives in those buildings would have taken at least 3 to 6 weeks, and no one notices it, and says somthing, that is stupid, and it dont matter how many so called experts with an agenda you can line up, just how does one become an expert in nocking down buildings with airplanes any way, so far its only happened to the buildings in question how does that make someone an expert, Yes ive looked at the evidence and it is without merit, only fearmongers would buy into it, its stupid, odds are good when you fly a big airplane loaded with jet fuel into a building some of the things that happen may be unexpected, there will be secondary explosions from refreigerators and gas appiances around the building or from the airplaine that explode under pressure due to the fires, and the account of one firefighter on the 78 floor that there are only two small fires does not mean there are only two small fires in the building it means that the firefighter hasnt yet gotten above the 78 floor, the Dark black billowing smoke pouring out of the building means that the fire is very big indeed, the fact that the buildings popped out from the top down means that the building fell from the top down, the popping out as it was comes from the sidewalls being forced out as the weight above bares down on it, the building zipped from the region above the fire to the ground as i would expect as fires run uphill towards the oxigen, the secondary explosions reported from the first building were at the time of the second buildings impact, if you watch the films closely you can see material from the second plane strike flying to the second building. And (pull it), would be a referance to abondon the building to the fire, as the loss of life that day was already beyond measure. Trust me chasing after these conspiracy theories says more about your ignorance than you would find flattering.

 

[Driver]

The evedence clearly shows two big airplanes fligh into two big buildings and then the two biuildings fall and go boom, to assume the airplanes had nothing to do with is moronic....

A BYU Physics Professor, and many other professors, engineers, and other professionals, disagree that the planes and the resulting fires could have caused the collapses, and they are hardly moronic.

It looks like it was made to look like 19 Arabs did it, but in order to make all of it happen required a lot of help. And the planners failed miserably in the details.

Those Arabs could not even fly a Cessna, and yet they were able to overcome all the passengers (including military personnel with just box cutters) fly those big airliners into their targets without stalling or crashing somewhere else? It's too far-fetched for me.

 

[Micahyah]

it would take nearly a 1000 peaple to pull off a job that big with the government, thats a 1000 peaple voluntarily killing 3000 peaple for what.

A 1,000 people you figure how? A few people at key positions can make all the difference, look at FEMA's response with Katrina. It's called Bureacracy, and it makes it easy to stop normal response. Such as the multiple war games that were occurring on that day, at least 5. Scheduling war games can involve 1 person, for example.

preplanting exposives in those buildings would have taken at least 3 to 6 weeks,

the Dark black billowing smoke pouring out of the building means that the fire is very big indeed,

No, the dark black billowing smoke is a sign that the temperature wasn't nearly hot enough to damage the steel, as underwriters laboratory said in the NIST report.

the secondary explosions reported from the first building were at the time of the second buildings impact, if you watch the films closely you can see material from the second plane strike flying to the second building.

No, the reports of secondary explosions in the first building did not all come in at the same time the second plane impacted, you just made that up. Anyone can check the oral histories.

 

[inhisdebt]

A BYU Physics Professor, and many other professors, engineers, and other professionals, disagree that the planes and the resulting fires could have caused the collapses, and they are hardly moronic.

It looks like it was made to look like 19 Arabs did it, but in order to make all of it happen required a lot of help. And the planners failed miserably in the details.

Those Arabs could not even fly a Cessna, and yet they were able to overcome all the passengers (including military personnel with just box cutters) fly those big airliners into their targets without stalling or crashing somewhere else? It's too far-fetched for me.

Now that is just plain stupid considering the number of live peaple who seen the airplanes fly into the building, The arabs were trained pilots. Remember enginers designed the (pacer) just like every other job engineers have there 10 % of moroons as well, they come from all schools and all walks of life. Most peaple are cowards and should not be expected to act particularly when they have there families with them. A bomb threat would keep most at bay, weather the bomb was present or not. i worked for the government there is no way anything on that scale could have been performed effectivly on the sly. too many hands in the kitty to keep anything secret.

 

[inhisdebt]

A 1,000 people you figure how? A few people at key positions can make all the difference, look at FEMA's response with Katrina. It's called Bureacracy, and it makes it easy to stop normal response. Such as the multiple war games that were occurring on that day, at least 5. Scheduling war games can involve 1 person, for example.
Your right the normal response was hampered by beurocrates in washington, but the beuracrate was bill clinton, the military cutbacks he made from 92 to 00 were staggering, the marine corps lost 50 000 marines, and another 30 000 or so became reserve positions. the air force stood down on many of there normal air alert posture due to the end of the cold war, they lost airplaines and technoligy, the navy was pushed back on several ships already scheduled for production and the army lost several tank units. but with the end of the cold war many of the units that could respond were shut down. training in the military is the norm for the job it is a constant cycle, and the joint exercise of many branches together at once is comon since (grenada) when we discovered that all the knew tech was usless if we could not communicate with each other, these war games have taught us a lot about upper unit communication and management which is key to our success in battle. i myself have participated in these at differant levels from small unit exercises to activation of troops across the entire eastern US and they accured several times a year normaly.


No, the dark black billowing smoke is a sign that the temperature wasn't nearly hot enough to damage the steel, as underwriters laboratory said in the NIST report.

No dark black billowing smoke is proof positive of an oil based fire. thats all



No, the reports of secondary explosions in the first building did not all come in at the same time the second plane impacted, you just made that up. Anyone can check the oral histories.

There may have been other secondary explosians from items inside the building as well, walk around your house and look at all the items that worn they are explosive under pressure, lets see paint thinner, refrigerants, tv set, hair spray, gas lines.
Now look at a massive building and an airplane, even more and even more powerfull, as the oxigen set ups would have been independent ,and highly explosive, not to mention the fuel that is so dangerouse the aircraft carriors dont cary it in one place they store it in lines throughout the entire ship, so that the entire ship is not lost with one spark, check out the fire on the uss forestall thick black smoke, from jet fuel and almost impossible to put out, and yes it melted the steel.