Viruses that prove common descent

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Only until they have to face Him. May YHWH have mercy on us all !

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

It doesn't really matter to Christianity -- so why do so many Christians insist on denying good, fundamental science? It makes us look like idiots.

I have denied nothing scientific. Science is a good thing, even if atheists try to use it for their agenda it still is a good thing that I fully support.

 

[Barry Desborough]

Abraham, Father of Faith!

Good Example, Perfect in God's Plan, Purpose and Redemption of some men.

Excerpt from the last week somewhere online:

"Abel, Enoch, Noah, all three worshipped God. Abraham did not; he worshipped idols. Things had gone from bad to worse, until the men in Ur of the Chaldees and in all the other cities around them were idolaters. And Abraham and Nahor and their father Terah were no different: `they served other gods’ (Joshua 24. 2). By himself Abraham was not morally the equal of any of those three men who went before him, Noah, Enoch or Abel. By nature he was on the same level as Adam after his fall, or as Cain. Yet he was the startingpoint for divine recovery.

Through none of those who preceded Abraham did God set Himself to deal with the situation created by sin. Abraham was the first through whom He did this."

Please stick to the topic, yeshuaslavejeff.

 

[Barry Desborough]

No need to.
When anything contradicts YHWH the CREATOR, it is false.

So you say...

 

[sfs]

I have denied nothing scientific.

Who said you denied anything? I'm talking about Christians who deny common descent. I have no idea what your views on the subject are. You asked why it matters, and I told you my reason (one of my reasons) for thinking that it's of some importance.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just saying what YHWH in HEAVEN says.

He never changed.

So you say...

 

[Barry Desborough]

I have denied nothing scientific. Science is a good thing, even if atheists try to use it for their agenda it still is a good thing that I fully support.

I have no agenda other than defending the truth. Believe what you like, but don't attack well-established facts and knowledge that can contribute to the advancement of humanity.

 

[sfs]

So, is anyone going to say anything about ERVs? That would be, you know, on-topic for this thread.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The TRUTH 2000 years ago,
the TRUTH 5000 years ago,
is still the TRUTH TODAY.

YHWH created all things simple.

Mankind came up with many devices. (leading away from YHWH)

 

[Barry Desborough]

I guess this just killed the God of Abraham, the only remaining God left. Congrats atheists you win. Or if that is not your point then what does this really matter.

Many people follow the Abrahamic religions without feeling the need to deny evolution. Try and separate the two in your mind. It can be done.

 

[Barry Desborough]

So, is anyone going to say anything about ERVs? That would be, you know, on-topic for this thread.

That would be good. I'm a retired teacher, and the love of explaining things to people is still ingrained in me.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Many people follow the Abrahamic religions without feeling the need to deny evolution.

We've been told that we cannot say that no one who follows Jesus ever believes in evolution, only that it contradicts their (Creationists) beliefs when they believe the BIBLE concerning Creation.

 

[Barry Desborough]

We've been told that we cannot say that no one who follows Jesus ever believes in evolution, only that it contradicts their (Creationists) beliefs when they believe the BIBLE concerning Creation.

Don't go by what people tell you. Go by the evidence. Determine the truth as honestly and as objectively as you can manage, then adjust your beliefs to it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Don't go by what people say. Go by the evidence.

I go by what YHWH Reveals.

He has revealed that man's wisdom and man's knowledge is not only false, it is leading men to worship the creation in stead of the CREATOR.

The evidence when the TRUTH is known and explained,
in line with YHWH'S WORD and PLAN and PURPOSE,
is all against you, not for you.

Perhaps on the web someone can provide a webpage showing this more clearly.

Not here.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Barry what do you exactly think this means, in regards to theism. If it doesn't matter then why did you even post this thread.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

It doesn't really matter to Christianity -- so why do so many Christians insist on denying good, fundamental science? It makes us look like idiots.

I think it boils down to not understanding the subject, thinking its a direct attack on the bible and thinking the goal of evolution is to disprove God. I think an introductory course would serve a lot of people well so they can see that the existence or non existence of God is not addressed in biology and it doesn't even ask the question.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Way to miss the essential point. ERVs are remnants of retroviral integrations into germline DNA. Retroviruses cannot target specific DNA loci, yet closely related species exhibit these remnants in exactly corresponding loci. The only explanation for this is that they integrated in ancestral organisms and have been duplicated via reproduction ever since. - Unless you have another explanation for common loci?

That's a totally false belief. Those viruses develop specific strategies for envading cells. If they had to develop a new strategy every time because they were unable to target specific cells, they would die out. I know you like to believe falsely that their envasion is random, but the fact they are indeed located in the same locale in both species shows your belief has no merit. You even admit these retrovirus are found in corresponding locals, then utter the falsehood they don't target the same locals. They target those exact locals because they have developed invasion strategies for those cells and mechanisms for defenses against the cells at those specific locals.

HIV in fact targets only white blood cells. It does not target any other cell within the body for reproduction. This well known selective targeting falsifies your belief they do not target specific types of cells that perform specific functions in specific locals. Also HTLV-I and II target lymph cells only.

They understand this fact well in designing gene therapies where a key consideration in retro viral vector design is the source of the viral envelope protein on vector virons, because this protein binds to specific cell-surface proteins and is the primary determination of the range of cells that can be tranduced by the vector. Only specific cells existing in specific locations that have specific functions can be targeted. Your beliefs are outdated and do not coincide with modern genetic knowledge on the subject.

 

[AV1611VET]

Don't go by what people tell you. Go by the evidence. Determine the truth as honestly and as objectively as you can manage, then adjust your beliefs to it.

Why then do those who do that very thing say they see God in nature, and others don't?

 

[xianghua]

See Veritas: ERV FAQ: Why do virologists and geneticists think that ERVs come from retroviruses? Isn't that just supposition on their part?

what is your best evidence from that article that those ervs are the product of viral insertion?

 

[Speedwell]

Don't go by what people tell you. Go by the evidence. Determine the truth as honestly and as objectively as you can manage, then adjust your beliefs to it.

What he means is, that if he voiced his true opinion about non-YEC Christians, the forum moderators would get on his case.