Evolution Goes (Retro)Viral

Warden_of_the_Storm

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Figures you'd take what I said that way.

I almost edited that part about the Jews out, but I though you'd see the forest.

I guess not.

AV, that poem is specifically about the persecution of groups deemed as opponents to the Nazis. You cannot even pretend that poem can be taken in any other form, just because you want to still say that Pluto is a planet! No-one is going to make you 'disappear' for saying that Pluto is still a planet. Not one government or organization is going to kill you for saying that.

All you are doing is showing that you have a persecution complex... over a hunk of bloody rock billions of miles away in outer space, which has absolutely no bearing on your life.
 
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AV1611VET

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All you are doing is showing that you have a persecution complex... over a hunk of bloody rock billions of miles away in outer space, which has absolutely no bearing on your life.

Let me reiterate that, if the IAU can violate its own bylaws without most of academia caring ...

If science can pluto "child in the womb" to "fetus" and get away with it ...

If science can call us monkeys and get away with it ...

Then I submit our morals are degraded.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Let me reiterate that, if the IAU can violate its own bylaws without most of academia caring ...

If science can pluto "child in the womb" to "fetus" and get away with it ...

If science can call us monkeys and get away with it ...

Then I submit our morals are degraded.

But fetus has been used to refer to unborn children ever since the Latin language was used.

Humans are apes, and God's own creation shows that we share the similarity.

The morals of the US have no more been degraded since the country was founded, and even before then, it was not a perfect country in the slightest.

To suggest that it is means that you have zero knowledge of history. Which I imagine is a true statement of fact about you.
 
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AV1611VET

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AV, that poem is specifically about the persecution of groups deemed as opponents to the Nazis. You cannot even pretend that poem can be taken in any other form, just because you want to still say that Pluto is a planet! No-one is going to make you 'disappear' for saying that Pluto is still a planet. Not one government or organization is going to kill you for saying that.

All you are doing is showing that you have a persecution complex... over a hunk of bloody rock billions of miles away in outer space, which has absolutely no bearing on your life.

Oh ... and ... two more words:

Operation Paperclip
 
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AV1611VET

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But fetus has been used to refer to unborn children ever since the Latin language was used.

Thanks for the QED.

Humans are apes, and God's own creation shows that we share the similarity.

Thanks for the QED.

The morals of the US have no more been degraded since the country was founded,

Too bad you can't compare then to now.

... and even before then, it was not a perfect country in the slightest.

Well, now it's more imperfect.

To suggest that it is means that you have zero knowledge of history.

Apparently so do you.

There was a time when even our gas stations closed on Sunday.

Which I imagine is a true statement of fact about you.

Look in the mirror for more facts.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Thanks for the QED.
Thanks for the QED.

You use that phrase so much that I'm sure you don't even know what it means or why you use it anymore. I'm not proving your point in the slightest.

Too bad you can't compare then to now.

Yeah, I kind of can.

Well, now it's more imperfect.

Please...

Apparently so do you.

There was a time when even our gas stations closed on Sunday.

Oh, woe is me! You are allowed to pump gas on Sundays! Oh, the horror, the terror! The brazen attack on Christianity!!

Get a grip.

Look in the mirror for more facts.

Now that just makes no sense.
 
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AV1611VET

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You use that phrase so much that I'm sure you don't even know what it means or why you use it anymore. I'm not proving your point in the slightest.

Looks like you know how I'm using it though.

That's exactly what I mean: "You're demonstrating my point."

Yeah, I kind of can.

Probably all you know is from your history books.

You know? academia? only on paper? etc.?

Or did you actually live in the United States in the '50s and '60s, like I did?

Oh, woe is me! You are allowed to pump gas on Sundays! Oh, the horror, the terror! The brazen attack on Christianity!!

LOL -- here we go:

Thanks for the QED.

That's the ridicule academia used on moral America to get their way.

(And I didn't even mention there was a time when our courthouses displayed the Ten Commandments on their lawns.)

Oh, woe is me! We were allowed to display the Ten Commandments on our courthouse lawns! Oh, the horror, the terror! The brazen attack on Atheism and the Cults!

Get a grip.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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AV, you're wrong on so many levels, that I'm not going to bother responding to you on this. If you want to continue this, start a new thread and invite me over to that, but I'm going to wok with you to further derail this thread more than we have.
 
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Estrid

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The fossil of 'Nebraska Man' (Hesperopithecus) was first reported in February 1922 (eight years before the discovery of Pluto), and correctly identified as the tooth of a peccary in December 1927, less than six years later. I think that this counts as a temporary misidentification.

Pluto was discovered in the constellation Gemini in 1930, and was reclassified as a dwarf planet 76 years later, when it had moved into Ophiuchus or Serpens. However, even from the beginning, Pluto was recognised as anomalous. In 1930 itself, the American astronomer Frederick Leonard proposed that Pluto was merely the brightest member of a trans-Neptunian asteroid belt. Less than ten years later the British astronomer Raymond Lyttleton suggest that Pluto was an escaped satellite of Neptune, and in 1949 and 1950 the Dutch-American astronomer G.P. Kuiper found by direct measurement of the disc of Pluto that it could not be larger than Venus. In any case, by the end of this century, Pluto will have been classified as a dwarf planet for more than 90 years, longer than it was classified as a true planet, so the earlier classification was not really a long-term misidentification.
In the event, wasn't the criteria for" planet"
changed?

It's a marvel, of a sad sort that there's no appreciation
at all for the feat of even detecting its existence I. The first place.
Let alone working out the details of its structure
and composition sufficient to determine if it matches
the criteria for "planet".

And sending a rocket to visit.

Left to theists, the sun would not be recognized
as a star, and all those other lights but the moon
would still be "stars". Over a flat earth.

But I think some book says " those nattering nabobs,
You shall always have among you"
 
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AV1611VET

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Let alone working out the details of its structure and composition sufficient to determine if it matches
the criteria for "planet".

So they just named it a planet without "working out the details if its structure and composition sufficient to determine it it matches the criteria for 'planet'"?

Hmmm ...

Nebraska Man comes to mind here too.
 
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Blaise N

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Evidence for evolution tends to be based on a range of research findings rather than a single wham-bam knockout factoid. For many Creationists fossils are the basis for anti-evolutionary arguments and they may not be aware of the strength of genetics in confirming evolution/common ancestry.

In my opinion, the strongest single argument for common ancestry is the existence of Endogenous Retroviruses (ERVs) in cross species DNA. Unfortunately, this can be a tedious, hard-to-follow explanation using concepts unfamiliar to most of us.

I recently came across the
‘Stated Clearly’ YouTube explanation for ERVs which does an excellent job of explaining the link between common ancestry and ERVs in plain, non-technical English with animations. I pirated the video text to put together a written version of how ERVs effectively ‘prove’ common ancestry (see below).

For those of you who prefer Talking Pictures, the YouTube version is tacked in under the text.

OB


ERVs & Common Ancestry

Several decades ago, judgements about the ancestry of species (like humans and chimpanzees) were based largely on fossil comparisons. The discovery of genes and DNA created completely new and different ways of determining these relationships through genetic comparisons.

One method involves the analysis of Endogenous Retrovirus (ERV) DNA shared between species.

A retrovirus is basically a string of RNA which penetrates a cell, converts into DNA and inserts itself, at random, directly into the cell’s DNA chain. Once inserted, the retrovirus DNA is duplicated, as part of the cell DNA, every time the cell duplicates itself.

If an infected cell happens to be a sperm or egg cell involved in fertilisation, that cell’s DNA, including the inserted ERV, will become a permanent part of every cell in the newly created offspring. Given enough time the changed DNA will spread through the entire population and all of its descendants. A retrovirus permanently implanted into a species DNA is known as an Endogenous retrovirus. The human genome contains thousands of ERV segments from a number of different ERVs dating back millions of years.


In 2003 the chimp genome was described and found to be almost the same as human DNA. Chimp DNA also included its own ERVs. This raised immediate questions:

Do chimps and humans share the same ERVs located in the same DNA locations?

If true could this be mere coincidence?


ERV’s insert themselves into DNA at random and there are at least 10 million potential insertion locations in the human genome. The odds for the same virus, inserted in the exact same location, in both chimps and humans, being coincidental is less than 1 in 10 million.

The odds of this coincidentally happening twelve times are one in 10 million multiplied by itself twelve times – a figure bigger than the total number of atoms in the observable Universe.

To check on the possibility of common ERVs, scientists searched chimp DNA for ERVs commonly found in human DNA.

They found 205 instances of the same ERV implanted in the same location in both chimps and humans. The odds that this is a coincidence amount to an impossible one in 5.88 x 10^1418 (588 followed by 1416 zeros).
Odds this high amount to certainty. Beyond any reasonable doubt, chimps and humans are descended from a common ancestor.

OB
DNA Evidence That Humans & Chimps Share A Common Ancestor: Endogenous Retroviruses - YouTube
Hey Occams!

Like I’ve said in other places before, when deep thought is taken into the subject entirely, it really doesn’t make sense.Inanimate matter cannot create biological-living-animate matter.Rock cannot form bacteria in an environment absent of it.but of course you are entitled to your views, and I can’t make you change that.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Hey Occams!

Like I’ve said in other places before, when deep thought is taken into the subject entirely, it really doesn’t make sense.Inanimate matter cannot create biological-living-animate matter.Rock cannot form bacteria in an environment absent of it.but of course you are entitled to your views, and I can’t make you change that.

All this is is just an argument from incredulity on your part. You can't imagine it, so it must not have happened.
 
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Blaise N

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All this is is just an argument from incredulity on your part. You can't imagine it, so it must not have happened.
No I’m stating from common sense,rock≠life.

If that were the case, our planet would be like pandora in avatar where everything is living.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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No I’m stating from common sense,rock≠life

Common sense means squat. Your argument is just an argument from incredulity, that's all there is to it. And it's not a good argument to begin with: just saying that it's impossible does not mean that it is impossible.
 
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Blaise N

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Common sense means squat. Your argument is just an argument from incredulity, that's all there is to it. And it's not a good argument to begin with: just saying that it's impossible does not mean that it is impossible.
So you think life spontaneously came into existence by sheer chance?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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So you think life spontaneously came into existence by sheer chance?

No, I don't think that life spontaneously cam into existence by sheer chance. Not one single scientist or person on this forum, who isn't a Creationist, thinks that.

I think that life came about by a slow and gradual process from single celled organisms into the large assortment of multi-cellular organisms that have existed and do exist over a long period of millions of years. Chance is irrelevant. The conditions need to be right only once for life to begin.
 
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Blaise N

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No, I don't think that life spontaneously cam into existence by sheer chance. Not one single scientist or person on this forum, who isn't a Creationist, thinks that.

I think that life came about by a slow and gradual process from single celled organisms into the large assortment of multi-cellular organisms that have existed and do exist over a long period of millions of years. Chance is irrelevant. The conditions need to be right only once for life to begin.
But prior to the planets existence,
Hypothetically speaking if the Big Bang were true,the universe randomly formed under the right circumstances in a empty void absent of any sort of matter(gravity,light,temperature, mass,gravity,etc.) and over trillions of years eventually formed a planet,in which (I used to support evolution,but now shun and object it) went through a volcanic phase,cooled,created vast oceans,which miraculously had microscopic single-cell organisms that eventually evolved into multi cell organisms,eventually evolved into fish,vertebrates,plants,plankton,phytoplankton,and invertebrates.Then learned to adapt to breathe out of water,and over the course of billions of years created plants,mammals,reptiles,birds,insects,arachnids,fish,bacteria,viruses,parasites, and amphibians.

And miraculously eventually came to ape ancestors, who somehow; with small brains eventually learned to speak,walk upright,hunt,fish,create tools,then learned all the ancient ways and eventually over thousands of years created the most advanced and sophisticated race on the planet?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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But prior to the planets existence,
Hypothetically speaking if the Big Bang were true,the universe randomly formed under the right circumstances in a empty void absent of any sort of matter(gravity,light,temperature, mass,gravity,etc.) and over trillions of years eventually formed a planet,in which (I used to support evolution,but now shun and object it) went through a volcanic phase,cooled,created vast oceans,which miraculously had microscopic single-cell organisms that eventually evolved into multi cell organisms,eventually evolved into fish,vertebrates,plants,plankton,phytoplankton,and invertebrates.Then learned to adapt to breathe out of water,and over the course of billions of years created plants,mammals,reptiles,birds,insects,arachnids,fish,bacteria,viruses,parasites, and amphibians.

And miraculously eventually came to ape ancestors, who somehow; with small brains eventually learned to speak,walk upright,hunt,fish,create tools,then learned all the ancient ways and eventually over thousands of years created the most advanced and sophisticated race on the planet?
First off: press the space bar after a comma and full stop, please! Your posts are really hard to read as it is.

And secondly, all you are doing is doubling down on your argument from incredulity. You're mixing the big bang theory, abiogenesis and the theory of evolution all into one in a clearly deliberate act to try and throw them all away because you can't understand nor want to understand the science behind them. And if you think that challenges your religious views, then I don't think your religious views are as strong as you'd like them to be.

And lastly: space after a full stop and a comma. Cannot stress that enough. It's really bugging me.
 
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