Compiling a list of potentially heterodox churches and denominational outliers

[RileyG]

Fair point, but the people I was thinking of aren't necessarily celibate.

ok! Then I understand where you are coming from.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Interesting video; it seems that heterodoxy is not a big concern for many (maybe most Christians):

Lutherans Officially Allowed to Receive Eucharist

The public practice of interfaith Communion is spreading.

www.churchmilitant.com

 

[bbbbbbb]

Speaking as someone with experience, many same-sex attracted celibate Christians do not identify as "gay" or identify with the LGBT community because it's too political. We do not like those terms.

Blessings

Quite true. I know a large number of homosexual individuals who are culturally conservative and are completely turned off by the politicization of their sexuality.

 

[Hazelelponi]

What about colleges?

I just read an article about Wheaton College that I think is concerning. It may be something for you to check out more thoroughly and then consider prayerfully listing it...

When the 'Harvard of Christian Schools’ goes woke | Fox News

Wheaton College is called the "Harvard of Christian Schools" due to its academic rigor, but lately the comparison is because of the adoption of wokeness.

www.foxnews.com

^^ Fox News link..

 

[bbbbbbb]

What about colleges?

I just read an article about Wheaton College that I think is concerning. It may be something for you to check out more thoroughly and then consider prayerfully listing it...

When the 'Harvard of Christian Schools’ goes woke | Fox News

Wheaton College is called the "Harvard of Christian Schools" due to its academic rigor, but lately the comparison is because of the adoption of wokeness.

www.foxnews.com

^^ Fox News link..

It is an enormous can of worms when one looks into seminaries and colleges. That ought to be the topic of another thread IMO.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I’ve never met a gay organist or a gay monk, and I know a few hundred of each. Gay interior designers, fashion designers, flight attendants and even a minority pilots, sure.

Actually in the Orthodox Church it is forbidden by an ancient canon for anyone to become a monk “because they abhor womankind,” which is an old fashioned way of conveying the concept of homosexuality. Additionally, it has been forbidden since the late fourth century for boys to live in Orthodox monasteries, whereas it took much longer for this to be adopted in the West with regards to oblates, but adopted it was.

We had a gay cantor. When it got discovered he became a gay ex-cantor. at least never to show up in that parish again.

 

[bbbbbbb]

At the Catholic cathedral here in Davenport, Iowa and at the largest Missouri Synod Lutheran church in the area the organists, who were extremely skilled and popular, were both gay.

 

[chevyontheriver]

At the Catholic cathedral here in Davenport, Iowa and at the largest Missouri Synod Lutheran church in the area the organists, who were extremely skilled and popular, were both gay.

Present tense or past tense?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Present tense or past tense?

The Lutheran organist was actively gay until his death about two years ago and the Catholic organist is still happily living with his partner.

 

[chevyontheriver]

The Lutheran organist was actively gay until his death about two years ago and the Catholic organist is still happily living with his partner.

I meant were they still at their parishes after this became public.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I meant were they still at their parishes after this became public.

These aspects of the personal lives have never been made "public". These men were/are not particularly interested in broadcasting their personal lives any more than any other average person. Nor were/are they interested in concealing themselves in a monastery as some men in their circumstances have done. The simple facts are that good organists (or organists in general) are a rapidly disappearing breed, as are clergy, especially Catholic clergy. As they say, beggars can't be choosers. The church authorities seem to have accommodated themselves to various peccadillos of their staff.

 

[The Liturgist]

Nor were/are they interested in concealing themselves in a monastery as some men in their circumstances have done.

I should note that I have never met in person a bona fide monk who I had reason to believe was gay, but I have only ever visited Eastern and Oriental Orthodox monasteries, although there was the case of the Greek Old Calendarist Elder Panteleimon, who broke communion with ROCOR after they began investigating allegations of sexual harassment from novice monks, and worse, he took a group of 17 Greek parishes with him into schism. Its a great tragedy.

Under the canon law of the Early Church which is still in effect in the Eastern Orthodox church, one cannot become a monk if one abhorrs the idea of sex with women. However, someone who triumphed over the sin is eligible.

 

[The Liturgist]

By the way, I will add these parishes to the list, and will also add any monasteries that are hypocritically failing to ensure that their monks are not simply homosexuals pretending to monasticism, if I can be furnished with verifiable information.

I will not add a parish to this list on the basis of mere allegation; the potential heterodoxy of each parish or cathedral or monastery relative to their denomination must be based on their own statements and matters of undisputed fact which are also current. So in the case of Elder Panteleimon and Holy Transfiguration, he resigned after admitting it was true and died two years later, and HTM is now a respected part of the Old Calendarist Orthodox, so in that case the information is no longer current or relevant.

Also nothing would make me happier than to be able to remove parishes, cathedrals or other entities from this list. And it does occasionally happen.

 

[The Liturgist]

Interesting video; it seems that heterodoxy is not a big concern for many (maybe most Christians):

Lutherans Officially Allowed to Receive Eucharist

The public practice of interfaith Communion is spreading.

www.churchmilitant.com

Well it is a concern for me.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I should note that I have never met in person a bona fide monk who I had reason to believe was gay, but I have only ever visited Eastern and Oriental Orthodox monasteries, although there was the case of the Greek Old Calendarist Elder Panteleimon, who broke communion with ROCOR after they began investigating allegations of sexual harassment from novice monks, and worse, he took a group of 17 Greek parishes with him into schism. Its a great tragedy.

Under the canon law of the Early Church which is still in effect in the Eastern Orthodox church, one cannot become a monk if one abhorrs the idea of sex with women. However, someone who triumphed over the sin is eligible.

I have very sincere doubts that any monks are active homosexuals. Some may suffer from same-sex attractions, but I really doubt that they decided that life in a monastery would provide an outlet for the sexual proclivities. Monastic life is hardly a life of ease or luxury.

 

[The Liturgist]

I have very sincere doubts that any monks are active homosexuals. Some may suffer from same-sex attractions, but I really doubt that they decided that life in a monastery would provide an outlet for the sexual proclivities. Monastic life is hardly a life of ease or luxury.

I appreciate that.

Occasionally there will be an abusive hegumen like Elder Panteleimon, and also this is why boys cannot become novices in Orthodox monasteries since around the year 400. In Benedictine monasteries there were boys admitted as oblates for several centuries, and there is evidence that there were hypocritical monks, but at that time some Western monasteries were centers of learning and culture and political influence.

 

[Paidiske]

I have very sincere doubts that any monks are active homosexuals. Some may suffer from same-sex attractions, but I really doubt that they decided that life in a monastery would provide an outlet for the sexual proclivities. Monastic life is hardly a life of ease or luxury.

I remember reading a book by a monk some time ago (sorry, the details escape my memory, although I think he was an Anglican monk) in which he commented that most people who can marry, do; and, therefore, that most people who end up choosing monastic life had some reason which made marriage difficult for them. In his case, he was same-sex attracted, and found monastic life as life-giving a place to live faithfully with that as anywhere else.

I agree that in my experience people don't choose monastic life thinking that it will provide them with opportunities for same-sex relationships. Good grief, there is no lack of opportunity in secular life these days!

 

[RileyG]

I have very sincere doubts that any monks are active homosexuals. Some may suffer from same-sex attractions, but I really doubt that they decided that life in a monastery would provide an outlet for the sexual proclivities. Monastic life is hardly a life of ease or luxury.

There was Father Seraphim Rose, who lead an active homosexual lifestyle, and later left when he became Orthodox.

 

[RileyG]

Interesting video; it seems that heterodoxy is not a big concern for many (maybe most Christians):

Lutherans Officially Allowed to Receive Eucharist

The public practice of interfaith Communion is spreading.

www.churchmilitant.com

I think it's been determined that it's false.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I think it's been determined that it's false.

Can you verify that it is false? There was a big stink about joint ELCA/Catholic services in a parish in the Western US; I know of another couple of ELCA parishes where inter communion is common with their local Catholic community. It is even happening in a town 8 miles away; Lutherans communing in a Catholic Church, and the Priest knows it. The Catholic Church in Germany is notoriously liberal, and there is likely at least a thread of truth at a local level if not country wide.