Compiling a list of potentially heterodox churches and denominational outliers

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,191
5,710
49
The Wild West
✟476,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I am compiling a list of parishes, cathedrals, chapels and local churches in Mainline and other denominations that have unusual and potentially erroneous practices and beliefs. Presently the list includes the following parishes, local churches, and cathedrals, in alphabetical order:


All Saints Evangelical Anglican Church, Ventura, California (Evangelical Anglican Church in America)
Since apparently the Episcopal Church is not liberal enough, there exists an Anglican denomination for those who want to ensure the use of politically correct gender pronouns in their worship. I have only found this one parish of it thus far.

:herb:


Bethel Church, Redding, California (New Apostolic Reformation)
This megachurch engages in unusual, and in my opinion, somewhat troubling worship practices, including “grave soaking.” It has 11,000 members making it larger than many historic denominations, including the Remonstrant Church in the Netherlands, founded by Arminius, and several traditional Lutheran and continuing Anglican churches, making it something of a church unto itself.

:herb:

Capitol Hill Baptist Church (SBC / 9Marks) Washington, DC
This Southern Baptist Church is pastored by Mark Dever, one of the senior leaders of 9Marks, a psuedo-denomination of Calvinist churches including parishes of the SBC, PCA, OPC, and non-denominational churches. 9Marks is known for membership contracts and abusive “church discipline”, wherein if someone fails to leave a 9Marks denomination in a state of good standing and following the correct procedure, they are not permitted to join another 9Marks-affiliated church. 9Marks also published on its website an extremely offensive blog post which appeared to justify Muslim antipathy towards Christians on the basis that the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics are “idol-worshipping, inappropriate contentography-viewing, sexually promiscuous drunks,” which is not a very Christian thing to say.

:herb:

Cathedral of Hope United Church of Christ, Dallas, Texas
This church recently joined the United Church of Christ, having previously been a part of the Metropolitan Community Church, a denomination catering to the homosexual community, and is characterized by unscriptural views on the subject.

:herb:

Cathedral of St. John the Divine, Episcopal Church, Manhattan, New York City, New York
This cathedral recently consecrated an altar with a crucifix depicting our Lord and Savior, the only begotten Son and Word of God, as a woman.

Edit: I recently saw photos of a deeply disturbing Halloween party at this cathedral, which I will not be sharing, but for the sake of a party, they exploited the Gothic architecture of the cathedral to put on something of an actual horror show.

:herb:

Churchill Park United Church, Winnipeg, Manitoba
I debated for a time on whether to include this church because their behavior is so shocking, I am aware of at least one Canadian Lutheran church which has in fact pronounced an anathema against them. For a time, I refused to even disclose what they did because I found it so horrific, but I have realized that people need to know the truth. And the horrible truth in this case is that this church committed an act of extreme sacrilege by putting a man to death in their sanctuary in a ritualized euthanasia ceremony, something so horrific as to be difficult to believe. Indeed, prior to this happening, the nightmare in question was confined to the imaginary realm of the 1970s science fiction film Logan’s Run, but they turned it into reality.

:herb:

Ebeneezer Lutheran Church aka “herchurch” ELCA, Alameda, California
Under the leadership of the current pastor, this formerly de rigeur Lutheran parish has been radically transformed into a temple of the “divine feminine.” They are known for selling “Mother Goddess Rosaries” with an idol of a female goddess.

:herb:

First Methodist Church, Seattle, Washington
This church is on this list specifically because of a deeply problematic blog run by its Elder (Pastor), Rev. Jeremy Smith, entitled “Hacking Christianity.” Whereas the title implies hacking in the favorable sense of advanced computer development, as opposed to criminal hacking, or cracking (the programmers who developed the Internet, and the key software that runs on it, the UNIX operating system, and most open source projects such as the Linux operating system and GNU programming environment, as well as computer security specialists, identify as hackers; noted UNIX/Linux developer and open source advocate Eric S. Raymond is famous leader in the Hacker community and maintains the “Jargon File” which is something of an explanatory guide to that community), however, the approach he takes in his blog strikes me as representing “Hacking Christianity” in the sense of hacking it apart. Among his controversial positions are that John Wesley was opposed to creeds, and that creeds, like our CF.com Statement of Faith, are “Weaksauce”, and that the modernist faction of the UMC, despite having been defeated at every GC for the past decade and despite the Traditional Plan having continually won support, should not concede to the proposed schism but rather simply ignore the African conferences that voted for the Traditional Plan, as their views don’t matter, whereas the views of United Methodists like George Takei, who is at odds with how most members of the UMC define moral theology, do matter. There is much more shocking and outrageous material on his blog, and if we make the reasonable assumption that this is reflected in what he preaches from the pulpit, his church definitely warrants a place on this list.

:herb:

The Fountains United Methodist Church, Fountain Hills, Arizona
I did not imagine there was a clergyman more removed from the mainstream United Methodist Church and the typical North American Methodist parishioner than Rev. Jeremy Smith of First Methodist Church in Seattle, described above, until I read about this unfortunate parish in the Juicy Ecumenism blog, and subsequently verified their claims directly from the website of the church and its leader, Rev. David M. Felten, who oddly styles himself “the Reverend” of this parish, rather than the more usual Methodist terminology of Elder or Minister or Pastor. Rev. Felten adopts such an extreme postmodern liberal theology that it would be impossible to reconcile his views with the Nicene Creed. Specifically, Rev. Felten denies that the Holy Spirit impregnated the Blessed Virgin Mary, and instead appears to give some credence to the Talmudic slander that our Lord was the result of a rape by a Roman soldier named Panthera. This blasphemy is accompanied by an implicit denial, found within the liturgical texts, of the deity of Jesus Christ. What is more, the “Reverend” is also a Pelagian, and has recently written several articles attacking the doctrine of original sin. He furthermore views the Scriptural text as “outdated” with regards to human sexuality and “reproductive rights.” And as one might expect by this point, he is a fellow traveller of John Shelby Spong and Dominic Crossan on the doctrine of the Resurrection, which is to say, he doubts that our Lord rose from the dead, at least physically. The majority of Methodist laity who are simply looking for a reliable, decent church in which to worship should give this parish a wide berth.

:herb:

Old South Church (United Church of Christ), Boston, Massachusetts
This beautiful church is sadly run by those who support the ugliest forms of human behavior. I recall a young minister preaching an angry sermon about the evils of the Supreme Court ruling which Christians throughout the United States have been praying for, for nearly fifty years, and this parish has put their views in support of abortion in writing. Such blatant disregard for the value of human life from the moment of conception automatically earns them a spot on this list.

:herb:

St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church, San Francisco, California
This Episcopalian parish has an eclectic style of worship, blending elements of Russian Orthodox and Ethiopian Orthodox liturgy with Shaker dance, and distressingly, elements of Shinto and non-Christian religions. Their ceiling features icons painted in the Eastern Orthodox style, which include an icon of the Kangxi Emperor, responsible for banning Christianity under penalty of death. They have written a number of their own anaphoras, in imitation of Oriental Orthodox practice, one of which is dedicated to Cain, the first murder, and another to the UN Millenium Development Goals. Their funeral service makes use of a Shinto shrine, in which the cremains are temporarily placed (there is no provision for traditional burial). The name doubtless comes from the common misconception that St. Gregory of Nyssa was a universalist; he was not, but rather merely considered apokatastasis, which is the restoration of all things, an eschatological possibility. The church might have taken a different name had they realized that St. Gregory of Nyssa was one of only a handful of church fathers who found it necessary to write canons for his diocese specifically prohibiting homosexuality.

:herb:

St. Paul Catholic Church, Lexington, Kentucky
Depressingly, this is the first Roman Catholic church I have had to add to this list, as a denominational outlier, after a priest in a rainbow stole gave a clearly liturgical blessing to a Lesbian couple in the nave of this parish, in an act which appears to violate even the deeply problematic Fiducia Supplicans, and which is certainly in direct contradiction to the kerygma of Pope St. John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, memory eternal.

:herb:
Sunshine Cathedral, Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Since the departure of the Cathedral of Hope in Dallas for the United Church of Christ, this church is now the largest remaining in the perverse “Metropolitan Community Church,” which boasts of being the “Largest Queer Church in the World.” It seems probable that this was the parish whose members attempted dialogue with the great Presbyterian moral theologian Dr. James Kennedy, memory eternal, who was not only thoroughly unmoved by their arguments, but was prompted by them to make a sermon explaining how arguments that sodomy does not refer to homosexuality but to inhospitality are entirely wrong, which is something of a classic. Lately, the pastor of this church delivered a sermon in which he called into question the relevance of belief in the miracles traditionally attributed to our Lord, which is enough, combined with its size and prominence, to earn its place here as a potentially heterodox church.

:herb:

Trinity-on-the-Green Episcopal Church, New Haven, Conneticut
This Episcopalian parish earned a well-deserved spot on the list because the leadership of this church thought it would be a good idea to have a special Choral Evensong for gay pride, accompanied by their well known Boys’ Choir, which has the effect of forcing their youth into accepting unbiblical doctrines regarding homosexuality which contradict the doctrines of the Anglican Communion and the Book of Common Prayer.

:herb:

Westboro Baptist Church, Topeka, Kansas
This church is widely known for its extremely hateful message and for protesting funerals.

:herb:

West Hill United Church, Toronto, Ontario
This church has become notorious for having an atheist as its minister, the result of a settlement between the United Church of Canada and Greta Voss, the atheist in question. Voss is probably the only openly atheistic minister of a Trinitarian denomination, although atheist clergy are not uncommon in Unitarian churches, since once you deny the deity of Christ, it is just a hop, skip and a jump as we say in the American vernacular to denying the deity altogether. I gathered from the Settlement that the UCC had concerns about what it could mean for it existentially, in terms of Canadian law, had they deposed her, but on this I could be mistaken. Aside from the severe problems this implies, the church also rejects Scriptural and normative Christian teaching on human sexuality and other issues, as one would expect.

:herb:

I am interested in learning of additional churches that fall into this general category of unusual and potentially heterodox practices and belief, whether they are liberal mainline, Catholic, Orthodox, or conservative Protestant. There is for example in the Bay Area a Roman Catholic church that prior to the installation of Archbishop Cordilleone, was known for being dominated by homosexuals, but fortunately, the Archbishop, installed by Pope Benedict XVI, is a conservative traditionalist who has secured traditional values in his archdiocese.

i am particularly interested to hear if any churches are actively reading New Testament apocrypha. In 2009, a now-deceased Episcopalian priest in Orange County called for removing the creeds from the liturgy, on the basis that they disrupt “the flow”, and quoted the psuedepigraphical Gospel of Mary in support of his thesis. There is the Ecclesia Gnostica, but they are obviously not a Nicene Christian church, so I am not concerned about them.

I think it is important to raise awareness of potentially problematic parishes, particularly in the mainstream Christian denominations like the SBC, ELCA, PCA, OPC and the Episcopal Church.
 
Last edited:

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,191
5,710
49
The Wild West
✟476,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
To reiterate, if you know of any churches, chapels, parishes or cathedrals that in any way resemble any of the above, or strike you as having problematic beliefs or worship practices, please post the details in this thread, being careful to follow the SOP of this forum (for example, do not accuse them of having false doctrines or engaging in heresy, but rather try to take as dispassionate as possible an approach to these churches, even though many of them engage in things which would anger most members of ChristianForums).

I intend to verify and compile all submissions with additional churches I identify on my own, in a post on my ChristianForums blog.

I am also particularly interested in problematic churches outside of the United States, as this list is very Ameri-centric (I could probably include every parish of the Remonstrant church, which has fallen from the excellence it attained under Arminius into being arguably the most liberal church which is not Unitarian, although it has many members who do not believe in the Trinity),
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,191
5,710
49
The Wild West
✟476,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Wow, Episcopalianism… o_O:( Surely there are many Anglicans (who may not even be Episcopalian) who see this as concerning. I am sure there are.

It was from an Episcopalian priest in Louisiana that I obtained much of this information.
 
Upvote 0

anna ~ grace

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 9, 2010
9,071
11,925
✟108,146.93
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It was from an Episcopalian priest in Louisiana that I obtained much of this information.
Surely there’s got to be some concern among clergy and laity… It’s hard to believe all Episcopalians are this incredibly liberal and confused.
 
Upvote 0

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2016
34,227
19,070
44
Albury, Australia
Visit site
✟1,506,854.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Wow, Episcopalianism… o_O:( Surely there are many Anglicans (who may not even be Episcopalian) who see this as concerning. I am sure there are.

Sure. But I would also say, it is easy, when looking at a global church, to find one or two examples of "dodgy" things going on. I am sure if I looked hard enough I could probably find something in just about any church. It doesn't say anything about the denomination as a whole, and it probably doesn't even say much about the day-to-day life in those two particular churches.

I would prefer to focus on the positive, rather than get all up in arms because someone at some point had a lapse in judgement or two.
 
Upvote 0

Athanasius377

Is playing with his Tonka truck.
Site Supporter
Apr 22, 2017
1,371
1,515
Cincinnati
✟708,093.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Wow, Episcopalianism… o_O:( Surely there are many Anglicans (who may not even be Episcopalian) who see this as concerning. I am sure there are.
Not really. Its happened so much over the years I am more surprised when I hear of an orthodox church in the Episcopal church than one that is heretical or heterodox. Thats one of the reasons the denomination is on life support here in the US.
 
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,313
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,605.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
i am particularly interested to hear if any churches are actively reading New Testament apocrypha. In 2009, a now-deceased Episcopalian priest in Orange County called for removing the creeds from the liturgy, on the basis that they disrupt “the flow”, and quoted the psuedepigraphical Gospel of Mary in support of his thesis. There is the Ecclesia Gnostica, but they are obviously not a Nicene Christian church, so I am not concerned about them.

I suspect this sort of thing is very rare. Here is a little confession one of the people I listen to on You-tube is the famous Gnostic Bishop Stephan Hoeller accidently running across the article on the internet back in 2005 or so.

Exile in Godville - LA Weekly


Hoeller really fascinated me for a few reasons

1) Has a lot in common with my Father's family as far as Austro Hungarian background, coming from upper class, the accent etc.


2) fascinated why someone would reinvent a neo-Gnosticism, that's the psychologist in me (my first field of study, never completed but one in heart).


3) Hearing his sermons online is a really great "Compare and Contrast" exercise as far as doctrine, the Bible. He is obviously not Christian in some areas, but sometimes his stuff can sound like it is coming from a traditional Nicene Creed professing Sacramental bishop.


4) His personal style I found very useful, especially on controversial topics. There are different traps, where someone can maybe insult someone on the other side etc. But the best approach is to take one where you talk about the historic and theological significance around something, in a fatherly or even grandfatherly tone and that can give you a way of disagreeing with different view points that is palatable, effective etc.


But my point on this, looking at what he does etc. it seems like he is very rare. I guess Elain Pagels popularizing the Gnostic text worried a lot of people, with the buzz they generated, but very few are really using them in church from what I can tell.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,191
5,697
68
Pennsylvania
✟792,470.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church, San Francisco, CA
This Episcopalian parish has an eclectic style of worship, blending elements of Russian Orthodox and Ethiopian Orthodox liturgy with Shaker dance, and distressingly, elements of Shinto and non-Christian religions. Their ceiling features icons painted in the Eastern Orthodox style, which include an icon of the Kangxi Emperor, responsible for banning Christianity under penalty of death. They have written a number of their own anaphoras, in imitation of Oriental Orthodox practice, one of which is dedicated to Cain, the first murder, and another to the UN Millenium Development Goals. Their funeral service makes use of a Shinto shrine, in which the cremains are temporarily placed (there is no provision for traditional burial). The name doubtless comes from the common misconception that St. Gregory of Nyssa was a universalist; he was not, but rather merely considered apokatastasis, which is the restoration of all things, an eschatological possibility. The church might have taken a different name had they realized that St. Gregory of Nyssa was one of only a handful of church fathers who found it necessary to write canons for his diocese specifically prohibiting homosexuality.
I am not familiar with the use of the term 'anaphora' as you use it. To me it is only a rhetorical device; and nothing wrong with using one's own, though it may be ill-advised to do so, due to possibly being unfamiliar or awkward. Why would it be heretical? What do you mean by 'anaphoras'?
 
  • Useful
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,191
5,710
49
The Wild West
✟476,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Sure. But I would also say, it is easy, when looking at a global church, to find one or two examples of "dodgy" things going on. I am sure if I looked hard enough I could probably find something in just about any church. It doesn't say anything about the denomination as a whole, and it probably doesn't even say much about the day-to-day life in those two particular churches.

Indeed, these are extreme outliers.

I would prefer to focus on the positive, rather than get all up in arms because someone at some point had a lapse in judgement or two.

Indeed so. My goal in cataloguing unusual churches is not polemical in nature, but rather motivated by a curiosity; in particular, I want to see if any mainstream church has incorporated non-canonical Gospels and other NT apocrypha, such as that collected by Hal Taussig, of the Jesus Seminar and later editor of A New New Testament, and if so, what they are using, and how it impacts their belief. So that is my actual objective in compiling this catalogue of ecclesiastical oddities. However, in coming across various unpleasant potential departures from denominations, creating a list of parishes that, so far, Baptists, Lutherans and Episcopalians might want to think twice before visiting, and perhaps in the case of the SBC, the ELCA and the ECUSA, is a secondary benefit, and it might prompt a healthy discussion about how these parishes reflect on the denomination and its values.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: linux.poet
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,191
5,697
68
Pennsylvania
✟792,470.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
I am compiling a list of parishes in Mainline and other denominations that have unusual and potentially erroneous practices and beliefs.
--------------------------------------------
I am interested in learning of additional churches that fall into this general category of unusual and potentially heterodox practices and belief, whether they are liberal mainline, Catholic, Orthodox, or conservative Protestant. There is for example in the Bay Area a Roman Catholic church that prior to the installation of Archbishop Cordilleone, was known for being dominated by homosexuals, but fortunately, the Archbishop, installed by Pope Benedict XVI, is a conservative traditionalist who has secured traditional values in his archdiocese.

i am particularly interested to hear if any churches are actively reading New Testament apocrypha. In 2009, a now-deceased Episcopalian priest in Orange County called for removing the creeds from the liturgy, on the basis that they disrupt “the flow”, and quoted the psuedepigraphical Gospel of Mary in support of his thesis. There is the Ecclesia Gnostica, but they are obviously not a Nicene Christian church, so I am not concerned about them.

I think it is important to raise awareness of potentially problematic parishes, particularly in the mainstream Christian denominations like the SBC, ELCA, PCA, OPC and the Episcopal Church.

I'm curious why you didn't mention/ aren't interested in potentially problematic parishes in other, more liberal denominations, such as PCUSA, UMC et al, and leave out other non-denominational names that are of a kind, such as "Bible Churches" generally, etc. Also, you seem unconcerned with denominational problems as opposed to individual parishes. But maybe I read you wrong.
 
Last edited:
  • Useful
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,191
5,697
68
Pennsylvania
✟792,470.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Indeed, these are extreme outliers.



Indeed so. My goal in cataloguing unusual churches is not polemical in nature, but rather motivated by a curiosity; in particular, I want to see if any mainstream church has incorporated non-canonical Gospels and other NT apocrypha, such as that collected by Hal Taussig, of the Jesus Seminar and later editor of A New New Testament, and if so, what they are using, and how it impacts their belief. So that is my actual objective in compiling this catalogue of ecclesiastical oddities. However, in coming across various unpleasant potential departures from denominations, creating a list of parishes that, so far, Baptists, Lutherans and Episcopalians might want to think twice before visiting, and perhaps in the case of the SBC, the ELCA and the ECUSA, is a secondary benefit, and it might prompt a healthy discussion about how these parishes reflect on the denomination and its values.
New Vatican coin worships the pagan deity "Gaia, Mother Earth" - CHRISTIAN NEWS
 
  • Informative
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,191
5,697
68
Pennsylvania
✟792,470.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
I am compiling a list of parishes in Mainline and other denominations that have unusual and potentially erroneous practices and beliefs. Presently the list includes the following parishes, local churches, and cathedrals, in alphabetical order:

Bethel Church, Redding, California (New Apostolic Reformation)
This megachurch engages in unusual, and in my opinion, somewhat troubling worship practices, including “grave soaking.” It has 11,000 members making it larger than many historic denominations, including the Remonstrant Church in the Netherlands, founded by Arminius, and several traditional Lutheran and continuing Anglican churches, making it something of a church unto itself.

Capitol Hill Baptist Church (SBC / 9Marks) Washington, DC
This Southern Baptist Church is pastored by Mark Dever, one of the senior leaders of 9Marks, a psuedo-denomination of Calvinist churches including parishes of the SBC, PCA, OPC, and non-denominational churches. 9Marks is known for membership contracts and abusive “church discipline”, wherein if someone fails to leave a 9Marks denomination in a state of good standing and following the correct procedure, they are not permitted to join another 9Marks-affiliated church. 9Marks also published on its website an extremely offensive blog post which appeared to justify Muslim antipathy towards Christians on the basis that the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics are “idol-worshipping, inappropriate contentography-viewing, sexually promiscuous drunks,” which is not a very Christian thing to say.

Cathedral of Hope United Church of Christ, Dallas, Texas
This church recently joined the United Church of Christ, having previously been a part of the Metropolitan Community Church, a denomination catering to the homosexual community, and is characterized by unscriptural views on the subject.

Cathedral of St. John the Divine, Episcopal Church, Manhattan, New York City, NY
This cathedral recently consecrated an altar with a crucifix depicting our Lord and Savior, the only begotten Son and Word of God, as a woman.

Ebeneezer Lutheran Church aka “herchurch” ELCA, Alameda, CA
Under the leadership of the current pastor, this formerly de rigeur Lutheran parish has been radically transformed into a temple of the “divine feminine.” They are known for selling “Mother Goddess Rosaries” with an idol of a female goddess.

St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church, San Francisco, CA
This Episcopalian parish has an eclectic style of worship, blending elements of Russian Orthodox and Ethiopian Orthodox liturgy with Shaker dance, and distressingly, elements of Shinto and non-Christian religions. Their ceiling features icons painted in the Eastern Orthodox style, which include an icon of the Kangxi Emperor, responsible for banning Christianity under penalty of death. They have written a number of their own anaphoras, in imitation of Oriental Orthodox practice, one of which is dedicated to Cain, the first murder, and another to the UN Millenium Development Goals. Their funeral service makes use of a Shinto shrine, in which the cremains are temporarily placed (there is no provision for traditional burial). The name doubtless comes from the common misconception that St. Gregory of Nyssa was a universalist; he was not, but rather merely considered apokatastasis, which is the restoration of all things, an eschatological possibility. The church might have taken a different name had they realized that St. Gregory of Nyssa was one of only a handful of church fathers who found it necessary to write canons for his diocese specifically prohibiting homosexuality.

Westboro Baptist Church, Topeka, KS
This church is widely known for its extremely hateful message and for protesting funerals.

I am interested in learning of additional churches that fall into this general category of unusual and potentially heterodox practices and belief, whether they are liberal mainline, Catholic, Orthodox, or conservative Protestant. There is for example in the Bay Area a Roman Catholic church that prior to the installation of Archbishop Cordilleone, was known for being dominated by homosexuals, but fortunately, the Archbishop, installed by Pope Benedict XVI, is a conservative traditionalist who has secured traditional values in his archdiocese.

i am particularly interested to hear if any churches are actively reading New Testament apocrypha. In 2009, a now-deceased Episcopalian priest in Orange County called for removing the creeds from the liturgy, on the basis that they disrupt “the flow”, and quoted the psuedepigraphical Gospel of Mary in support of his thesis. There is the Ecclesia Gnostica, but they are obviously not a Nicene Christian church, so I am not concerned about them.

I think it is important to raise awareness of potentially problematic parishes, particularly in the mainstream Christian denominations like the SBC, ELCA, PCA, OPC and the Episcopal Church.
Fallout Escalates over ‘Goddess’ Sophia Worship
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,191
5,710
49
The Wild West
✟476,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I'm curious why you didn't mention/ aren't interested in potentially problematic parishes in other, more liberal denominations, such as PCUSA, UMC et al, and leave out other non-denominational names that are of a kind, such as "Bible Churches" generally, etc. Also, you seem unconcerned with denominational problems as opposed to individual parishes. But maybe I read you wrong.

I am extremely interested in potentially problematic or unusual parishes in every denomination, but I need people to identify them for me. The whole point of this thread is to survey the membership of Christian Forums for a list of unusual, weird and doctrinally dubious parishes.

Denominational problems are obviously a huge issue, insofar as the politics within a denomination are presumably a major factor in what is keeping these parishes in operation in their current style. However, first, I want to collect a listing as comprehensive as possible listing, and then, it might be possible to analyze denominational issues.

So if you are aware of any parishes in this group, please let me know. There is one UMC parish I know of which has a problem, in that one of its ministers runs a doctrinally dubious website called hackingchristianity.net, but I haven’t been able to identify the specific parish.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,191
5,710
49
The Wild West
✟476,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Could someone define what each church is teaching wrong?

If you look at my initial post, you can see my concerns, but these are not, strictly speaking, condemnations; I learned the hard way that accusing a church of false doctrine is not permitted in Denomination Specific Theology, but fortunately I did not catch a ban, however, I understand the wisdom of that logic in ensuring that the discussions in here remain respectful and do not devolve into low polemics or bullying. So the status of the doctrines of these churches I would characterize as questionable and potentially problematic or erroneous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: linux.poet
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,191
5,710
49
The Wild West
✟476,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I am not familiar with the use of the term 'anaphora' as you use it. To me it is only a rhetorical device; and nothing wrong with using one's own, though it may be ill-advised to do so, due to possibly being unfamiliar or awkward. Why would it be heretical? What do you mean by 'anaphoras'?

Eucharistic prayers. In the Eastern churches, the Eucharistic Prayer as it is commonly called in the West, such as the Roman Canon or the Anglican Holy Communion Service, is called an Anaphora, whereas the communion liturgy is divided into two parts, the liturgy of the catechumens, which includes the scripture lessons and is directly analogous to the Liturgy of the Word; and the Liturgy of the Faithful, which includes the Creed, the Cherubic Hymn, the Anaphora, the Fraction, the Distribution of the Eucharist, and the Dismissal; together these are called a synaxis, and if they are used without the Eucharist being served, in the Eastern Orthodox Church it is called a Typika Service, equivalent to the Anglican service of Ante-Communion.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,191
5,710
49
The Wild West
✟476,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Surely there’s got to be some concern among clergy and laity… It’s hard to believe all Episcopalians are this incredibly liberal and confused.

Indeed, the parish and cathedral I mentioned are extreme outliers. The Episcopal Church is not as liberal as most people think. Although I am not enthusiastic about the plans for a new BCP, in that it looks like the most theologically controversial factions will be involved; they already had a conference on “re-imagining the liturgy” which was filled with bad ideas. The idea of a new prayer book also comes on the heels of an earlier decision by the Church not to replace the 1979 BCP, for fear of repeating the schisms and trauma that occurred with the replacement of the 1928 BCP (which remains in use in a few Episcopal parishes, although technically this is against the rules).

I actually like the 1979 BCP, especially the traditional language recension known as the Anglican Service Book.
 
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
13,191
5,697
68
Pennsylvania
✟792,470.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
Eucharistic prayers. In the Eastern churches, the Eucharistic Prayer as it is commonly called in the West, such as the Roman Canon or the Anglican Holy Communion Service, is called an Anaphora, whereas the communion liturgy is divided into two parts, the liturgy of the catechumens, which includes the scripture lessons and is directly analogous to the Liturgy of the Word; and the Liturgy of the Faithful, which includes the Creed, the Cherubic Hymn, the Anaphora, the Fraction, the Distribution of the Eucharist, and the Dismissal; together these are called a synaxis, and if they are used without the Eucharist being served, in the Eastern Orthodox Church it is called a Typika Service, equivalent to the Anglican service of Ante-Communion.
Sorry for my off topic interruption to your OP, but thanks for responding anyway. I had just about guessed it was something liturgical like that, (but never heard of it as such before). My guess was based on the rhetorical cadence that anaphoric phrases (in the sense that I am familiar with) engender when recited. I'm guessing a proper etymology of your 'anaphorics' would show something of that nature.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,191
5,710
49
The Wild West
✟476,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Sorry for my off topic interruption to your OP, but thanks for responding anyway. I had just about guessed it was something liturgical like that, (but never heard of it as such before). My guess was based on the rhetorical cadence that anaphoric phrases (in the sense that I am familiar with) engender when recited. I'm guessing a proper etymology of your 'anaphorics' would show something of that nature.

You might take a look at the anaphoras of the Syriac Orthodox Church here, https://syriacorthodoxresources.org/Liturgy/Anaphora/index.html which overlap with Eastern Orthodox anaphoras (compare those of St. John Chrysostom and St. James to the Eastern Orthodox counterparts, Liturgy of Saint James and The Liturgical Texts Project - informal collection of Western Orthodox liturgical texts for perusal

The Syriac Orthodox Church also has a version of the anaphora of St. Basil, and the Coptic Anaphora of St. Cyril, which is the classic Alexandrian liturgy, known to the Greek Orthodox as the Divine Liturgy of St. Mark (one of the two oldest attested liturgies, the other being that of Saints Addai and Mari; the Alexandrian liturgy is attested in the 2nd century Strasbourg Papyrus), albeit reconfigured to the Antiochene-Jerusalemite anaphoral structure (used in the West Syriac Rite, the Armenian Rite, the Ethiopian Rite, the Coptic Liturgy of St. Gregory, and the Byzantine Rite).
 
Upvote 0