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Very concerned about Jerusalem / US embassy

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by friend of, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


    Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.






    1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
    1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

    .
     
  2. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    I have never said that God would no allow for any Christian to be killed , happens everyday in war- car accidents - plane crashes -illnesses -
    Just because someone in the OT times before Jesus shed his blood on the cross saved people from the fire does not mean that Jesus will not spare the live of His people in the GT , God told Noah to build an ark because a flood will come to destroy life on earth , so it was a instruction of exactly how God will save Noah by keeping Noah out of the flood,
    God told Lot to leave the city now- because God was going to destroy it .

    1 Thess_ 5:9
    For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    There are more scriptures that say the same thing. There are people who refuse to study the bible to get the understanding of the why of the rapture and the result is they don't understand the why so they simply slap it together with the second coming without any idea of what is happening and that makes it easy to pass on it and think about something else. People hear of the "first fruits" and don't even give thought to where that phrase came from, they will use it to make the their point without even knowing what it means, First fruits is because there is more than one harvest.

    When harvesting grapes or tomatoes or melons , fruit from trees you don't harvest fruit just one time for the season then no more , No! you go back and harvest the fruit that had just budded during the first harvest and when those buds have grown you go back and harvest them . That is why the term First Fruits is used to depict the scriptural harvest,

    You cannot find any scripture that states that all Christians are harvested at the same time - though some people twist some scripture into that meaning,.
    it is nothing more than your carnal way of thinking that you cannot understand scripture is very clear on a rapture .
    Some people go so far as to try to separate satans wrath from Gods wrath but that makes no sense at all because God himself sends the great delusion of satanic power to convince people that God has come to earth in the Man of Lawlessness , God has told us before it happens and why it will happen to educate his true believers of what will happen and why it will happen so that his followers don't fall for the deception.

    Yes the rapture IS BIBLICAL - you need to study to understand it , There is no scripture that says God will protect Christians through GT , those who go into the wilderness are people who come to Christ AFTER the GT has begun,
    There is no scripture that says Believers that exist before the GT will go through it because that is contrary to what Jesus has said
    You can deny the truth , but that only shows that you support your preferred view and not the truth of Gods Word
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  3. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Unintended duplication
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  4. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In reading Revelations, "the beast" is sometimes a political reference, and at other times some kind of machine like a computer AI. To assume it is a US/Israeli entity is presumptuous. I do not say it is not so, nor do I say it is. I, also, believe the political state of Israel is at the heart of the global government of Revelations. And perhaps the Kabbalah will be at the heart of the global religion, although clothed in another form. I am a Trump supporter, too, and believe God is using Trump as He used Cyrus in the past. Time will tell. Wait and watch.
     
  5. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I do.
     
  6. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I do not think you understand what love of God really means. You are too concerned about protecting national Israel from her enemies than warning people AMONG YOU about the TRUTH and COMMANDMENTS on the sins of homosexuality, divorce and remarriage, abortion, murder, stealing, greedy, etc. and lead them to Christ with the testimony of the Scripture. This is the love of God which is your great commission.

    1st John 5:2-3
    • "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    • For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."
    The evidence of Christian love for our brethren (according to God), is obedience, not social engineering, humanistic reasoning, or guarding nation Israel against enemies that contradict His instruction.

    We are supposed to protect people from going to HELL and we are assigned a job to share Gospel with them. Nothing in Scripture that God commanded us to protect the modern nation of Israel!
     
  7. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Unfortunately, the traditional interpretations of the four kings of Daniel chapter 7 usually are that they are literal empires or political powers. However, I've studied this enough to know that this is not true. When we examine the scriptures more carefully we see that God is not interested in history lessons of worldly empires, but is illustrating spiritual truths.

    Daniel 7:2-3
    • "Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
    • And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another[/i]."
    God has inspired these truths to be written in cryptic symbolism. For example, patterned after four literal ruling Kingdoms (Chaldea, Persian, Greece and Rome), but symbolizing a spiritual rule in the earth. These four beasts are spiritual pictures of the construct from which Satan rules, which is through carnal man. In other words, the four beasts actually symbolize systemic carnal world rule. In fact, in Revelation chapter 13 we can see these very same beasts pictured as one single beast that has all the aspects of these four beasts illustrated in Daniel chapter 7. I believe that they are four here to symbolize the "universality" of this rule of Satan over the peoples of the world. The number 4 symbolizes universality. The beasts are kings, which symbolize rules. The wind many times is synonymous with spirit, and by this prophesy referring to "the four winds of the heaven," it implies the Holy Spirit. Horns are symbolic of power and strength. The winds of heaven here is an illustration that God ultimately controls all the universe, both good and bad (Revelation 7:7). The sea is the tumultuous world, or peoples of the world, often spoken of as humanity. And the beasts that came up from the sea "symbolize" epocs, dominions that successively emerge from the tumultuous disturbances of the world (mimicking the tumultuous sea -As Isaiah 13:4). If you will read about when Christ calmed the tumultuous sea it was illustrating His rule over the wicked forces of the world that would destroy His disciples in their ship (Church). So these four kings symbolize their universal rule. Diverse or different because they differ in symbolism, purpose, and strength.

    A short version is a beast themselves is the systemic rule of Satan, "through carnal men," that are "as beasts," I believe that it's talking about Satan, and his ministers of unrighteousness, which are people. And thus how Satan rules through them to attack the Lord's people.
     
  8. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Seems that you would just turn away when you see your brother an Israelite having problems or being attacked in some way as you would prefer not to help them nor love them .

    44 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’

    45 “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’

    46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”

    Galatians 5:14
    For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

    James 2:8
    If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right.

    Mark 12:31
    The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”


    You really need to learn what love really is as it is not just helping those who fit your own views
     
  9. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    The Jews have always been persecuted. Are you okay with that?
     
  10. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    Love means doing unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
     
  11. Antig

    Antig Active Member

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    Where does it say the fourth beast will be Israel and USA?

    Fantasy. Pure fantasy
     
  12. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do you realize that our brothers and sisters are not strictly Israelites?

    Evangelism is part of Church service, just as exhorting, worship, song, prayer, rebuke, teaching and preaching. Our great commission is to feed with milk and meat of the Gospel to those who are poor in spirit or spirits in prison. In other words, witnessing to anyone who is in spiritual bondage of Satan. Jews and Gentiles!

    You greatly misunderstood! Nothing here was said that we need to protect Jews for the sake of nation Israel from her enemies. Rather we are to bring Gospel to the Jews as well as the Gentiles about Christ and His Kingdom. Jews and Gentiles are both your neighbors, no matter what countries they are starting in. I think you should start with your own household, then the church, the community, and go from there.
     
  13. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Indeed.
     
  14. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jews and Gentiles, of course! The Jews in nation Israel is no different.
     
  15. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    I would argue, of course, that ALL Jews today are directly descended from gentiles who assimilated into Talmudic Judaism, and have ZERO relationship to the pre desolation Hebrew people, not genetically, not politically and certainly not religiously.

    The Church is the ONLY entity on earth Today whereby Biblical Israel Continues.
    .
    "The Church" in Acts 2:47 had a grand total of 0 Gentiles in it. It is a JEWISH entity.
    It was (and still is) the Nazarene sect of Judaism, the faithful remnant who followed Israel's Messiah. The "church" is not something separate from Israel, but rather is the remnant of the faithful within Israel.

    Isaiah pointed out that in times of Israel's great apostasies, the faithful of the nation were reduced to a tiny remnant of elect ones (Isaiah 1:8-9). So it was in the first century, where Paul identifies himself as an example of the faithful remnant (Romans 11:1-5).

    The apostles continually say that the members of the Nazarene sect are the true elect ones (2 Tim 2:10; Col 3:12; Galatians 6:15-16; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 2:9-10 ).

    However, many here have a bizarre idea of who is Israel (they count the disobedient sons of Abraham as Israel while discounting entirely the faithful sons of Abraham).
    THEY TEACH THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THE APOSTLES TEACH.

    St. Paul said that when the nation was in mass apostasy, the TRUE Israel was carried on not through the lineages of the wicked sons but rather through the OBEDIENT FEW (called the "remnant"), such as was true in Isaiah's day (Romans 9:27-29) and Elijah's day (Romans 11:3-5).

    Peter says the same thing at Acts 3:22-24, where it is clear that the wicked jews who refuse Christ were to be "cut off from among the People of Israel" while the faithful jews (John the Baptist, Joseph and Mary, the Twelve, the Seventy, the three thousand on Pentecost day, and many other jews) were the True Faithful Israel.

    Just as the jewish church abode with Moses in the wilderness (Acts 7:37-38), so Jesus had HIS jewish church (Mt. 16:18-19). And within a few years after Pentecost, the faithful Israel learned how to start accepting both jewish and also gentile followers from all over the empire to convert into their Nation (1 Peter 2:9-10; Mt 21:40-45). And so the tiny remnant True Israel grew into a worldwide Judaism living under the promised NEW covenant of Israel's Messiah.

    And so it was also in Moses' day, when the countless thousands of wicked sons of Abraham were slain in the wilderness while the faithful sons of Abraham survived and got to enter the Promised Land. We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

    Just like with Moses in the Wilderness, Believing Faithful Israel continues, while Wicked, Apostate Israel is destroyed.

    And Just Like Old Covenant Israel, Gentiles who believe and convert to New Covenant Israel are welcomed and received as full fledged citizens.

    The Church is the faithful ones of Israel.

    The insistence that "True Israel" is carried on through the lineages of the Unbelieving wicked sons is polar opposite to what the apostles all taught.

    Israel is JESUS CHRIST and His Jewish Followers with gentiles grafted in.

    There is no Israel apart from Christ.
     
  16. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Okay good
     
  17. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Do you realize Jesus says to love all people including your enemies ?
    You are just making excuses so you feel good about loving people that don't believe as you do
    Jesus said he came to heal the sick -those who need a doctor - this was Jesus response when the people tried to say that he should focus his attention on the Jews of Israel and they thought he came to be among the elite because Jesus is King but he rebuked them
    Your posts reflect that Christians should only focus on evangelizing and not loving all people

    44 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’

    45 “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’

    46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”
     
  18. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    No. That is why my wife and I support ministries that take the Gospel to modern Jews.

    We have had Jewish Christians in our home for Bible study.

    If we really love someone we will tell them they are lost without Christ, instead of letting them die in their sins.

    How about you?
    What are you doing to take the Gospel to the Jewish people?




    .
     
  19. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I did not say that.

    There are lots of definitions of love floating around in the Christian community, but not all of them are love "as God defines it." Some are nothing but caring for someone, some are but emotions and some are mere infatuations. Every religion in the world has people in it who dearly love their family members, their neighbors, and their countrymen. But that's not the love of the Bible that illustrates you love God. It may be simple familiarity, friendship, sentiment, passion or experiential love. True love (as defined by God) is that we desire for others the very same mercy and salvation that we ourselves have received of God. Freely we have received, we want others, both Jews and Gentiles, to receive just as freely. We desire they "KEEP" the commandments of God, and be true Christians who are faithful to God's word where they do not succumb to the flesh, which constantly wars against this. We know that in mankind keeping God's commandments, thereby is the love of God Perfected.

    You made a false accusation that I only wanted us to focus on evangelizing but not loving all people. You are wrong. The love of God (apage love) is to see others the same mercy and salvation that we experienced which is what our evangelizing is all about! Selah!
     
  20. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    It is called "agape" love , divine love that God has given is what he expects -all I did was point out that you want to focus on evangelism while not helping Israel from their oppressors - you'd rather let them deal with their enemies without our help

    1 Cor 13
    If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

    2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

    3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

    4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

    5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

    6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

    7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

    9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

    10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

    11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

    12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

    13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
     
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