Vaccine mandates and passports - a complete failure

[probinson]

So if someone comes to me trying to convince me to get vaccinated and I ask the question "Can you guarantee and assure me I won't get any serious side effects or consequences as a result of taking it" I expect a direct answer, not the standard "serious side effects are rare but the vaccines are generally tolerated well" response, as that is not good enough for me.

The benefit/risk calculus of vaccinating a healthy teenage boy is totally different than the benefit/risk caculus of an 80-year old with multiple co-morbidities. This is what advocates of mandates miss.

Mandate advocates don't care if a second dose of vaccine puts you at higher risk of myocarditis. They also do not care if perhaps a single dose of vaccine after an infection is sufficient, rather than two doses (as has been studied and suggested). They don't care if studies show that immunity after infection is actually better than vaccine-induced immunity. They care only that you comply with the mandate of 2 shots and 2 weeks, because they say so. It is one of the least scientific approaches to a health problem ever.

I don't know why people today are so afraid to ask for questions. Are people afraid they going to be labelled as a anti-vaxx because they asking questions?

People have labeled Dr. Paul Offit an anti-vaxxer for advising caution with boosters and advising his own 20-year old son not to get boosted, even though he has actually developed vaccines and is now on the FDA advisory committee for vaccinations! That's how crazy the world has gone.

 

[probinson]

Here's a look in at Israel, currently on their fourth dose of vaccine;

Yikes! This article (published October 13, 2021) certainly didn't age well (emphasis added);

Israel has defeated the Delta variant of the coronavirus and can expect six to eight months of COVID quiet, according to a leading virologist.

Dr. Rivka Abulafia-Lapid told The Times of Israel on Tuesday that the fourth wave is coming to an end, that Delta is highly unlikely to generate another wave, and that the strong spread of a new variant is improbable.

This is mostly due to the allocation of booster shots across age groups in Israel, which, given the functioning of the immune system, are likely to deliver longer-lasting protection than the initial two shots, she said.

“My estimate is that once we have three vaccines, protection will last for a year,” said Abulafia-Lapid, a senior doctor at Hadassah Medical Center and part of the Hebrew University’s faculty. “There should be good memory in the body for around a year that can fight off COVID infection in many cases.”

Top virologist says Delta defeated, predicts 6+ months of COVID quiet for Israel​

Keep in mind to be considered "fully vaccinated" in Israel now requires a booster. It's hard to imagine how they could have been more wrong.

 

[alertandawake]

Give it time and one will need another booster to boost the previous booster. It is like a person is going around in circles, not really making any progress.

Now I have been reading up on some articles of children being allowed to get the vaccines behind their parents back? This is madness. How can children know and understand what they are being injected with? Is there no end to this insanity?

 

[lifepsyop]

The benefit/risk calculus of vaccinating a healthy teenage boy is totally different than the benefit/risk caculus of an 80-year old with multiple co-morbidities. This is what advocates of mandates miss.

Mandate advocates don't care if a second dose of vaccine puts you at higher risk of myocarditis. They also do not care if perhaps a single dose of vaccine after an infection is sufficient, rather than two doses (as has been studied and suggested). They don't care if studies show that immunity after infection is actually better than vaccine-induced immunity. They care only that you comply with the mandate of 2 shots and 2 weeks, because they say so. It is one of the least scientific approaches to a health problem ever.

I've heard it described as the "absurdity of the ritual". The more irrational and impractical the ritual is, the more it strengthens the ideological group's social bond and sense of power. If the ritual were more practical, people might generally follow it for practicality's sake. But the more impractical the ritual, the more of a religious or cult-like experience it becomes to share in it and impose the ritual on others. It strengthens their social bond and sense of authority: "Because we say so. We are the science." ... It's like a mental intoxication.

You can hear it in the language "following the science"... this narrative that they are saving the world through some kind of collective gnosis or enlightenment that is channeled through high-priest type figures like Fauci. The belief that the world will not be safe again until every healthy child is inoculated against a virus that doesn't even pose a significant threat to them. And then they'll shift the crisis to something else. The facts do not matter. It is a sad situation.

 

[SkyWriting]

So in the last week or so, I've personally seen dozens of fully vaccinated, sometimes boosted people testing positive for COVID. In fact, nearly everyone that I know that's tested positive recently is at least fully vaccinated.

And are they glad they did?

 

[SkyWriting]

Give it time and one will need another booster to boost the previous booster. It is like a person is going around in circles, not really making any progress.Now I have been reading up on some articles of children being allowed to get the vaccines behind their parents back? This is madness. How can children know and understand what they are being injected with? Is there no end to this insanity?

Yes. Yes there is.

 

[alertandawake]

So in the last week or so, I've personally seen dozens of fully vaccinated, sometimes boosted people testing positive for COVID. In fact, nearly everyone that I know that's tested positive recently is at least fully vaccinated.

So how many of these people were led to believe that they would be safe? I fairly am certain most people who got these vaccines believed they were protected?

Because if they were led to believe they would be protected, and they still got it, then that is deception. It is very simple, if they were told they would be protected, then they were deceived or lied to. To clarify, as I have discussions with people I know (and yes it can get into quite a debate), but ultimately if you are told that a product will keep you safe, or protected from getting a disease, but you still got it, then that means you were either lied to or deceived. You cannot use the argument "oh the symptoms are less severe if you get the shot" because that is not what the word "protection" means.

And I still see the same argument today promoting vaccines, "get vaccinated, get your boosters, get protected, keep you and your community safe" or something to that effect.

And yet the problem is getting more and more out of control. We seeing variants pop up left right and centre.

So can someone remind me again why we have vaccine mandates and passports? Wasn't it because they were supposed to prevent infections? To prevent transmissions? To prevent symptomatic disease and keep the "unclean", unvaccinated people away so that all of these infections would stop spreading so rapidly?

That is what my understanding was, but I think these vaccines served a purpose, the question is "what purpose?" There is a reason why something is done. So if the vaccines are not doing what they were suppose to be doing, then why were they given to people?

This is the problem today, for many, their minds have reached a level they either cannot or unable to analyse and question. Contrary to what many may think, it is not a crime to seek more information and ask questions. But in this day and age we live in for some reason, asking questions makes the person appear to be "misinformed".

 

[J Michael]

Interesting....

Isolated island in Pacific Ocean experiences first COVID-19 cases of the pandemic after arrival of fully vaccinated, triple-tested missionaries who were in quarantine

https://www.theblaze.com/news/kiribati-covid-outbreak-pacific-protocols

 

[JacksBratt]

Give it time and one will need another booster to boost the previous booster. It is like a person is going around in circles, not really making any progress.

Now I have been reading up on some articles of children being allowed to get the vaccines behind their parents back? This is madness. How can children know and understand what they are being injected with? Is there no end to this insanity?

The producers of the vaccines are going deaf... From the "CHA CHING" of the money they are making.
Compounded by the bleating "baa baa baa" of the sheep who are following the "science".

 

[JacksBratt]

Here's your "irony" of the month. Coming late in the month but it is surely the winner...

Fully vaccinated and boosted Prime Minister Justine Trudeau, gets COVID and cannot speak, in person to the thousands and thousands of Canadians who are protesting the vaccine mandates.....

You cannot make this stuff up.

 

[Derek1111]

Here's your "irony" of the month. Coming late in the month but it is surely the winner...

Fully vaccinated and boosted Prime Minister Justine Trudeau, gets COVID and cannot speak, in person to the thousands and thousands of Canadians who are protesting the vaccine mandates.....

You cannot make this stuff up.

why do people think it is ironic that people who are vaccinated get COVID?

The science suggests, as expos4ever has said repeatedly on this thread, that vaccination provides strong protection against serious illness, hospitalisation and potentially death. There is less evidence, but some, that it makes you less transmissible. If right, that would protect those with whom you come into contact. However, you can still contract the virus. That's why you keep taking standard measures, including distancing, wearing a proper mask when you can't distance, try to use ventilated areas, and stay home when sick.

It would be highly ironic if the PM had gone out and shaken hands with everyone when knowingly C19 positive. But not doing that (and Trudeau did the opposite) doesn't strike me as ironic at all. Unless you mean this in an Alanis Morissette sense (i.e., not ironic at all).

 

[probinson]

why do people think it is ironic that people who are vaccinated get COVID?

Probably because we were told, incessantly and repeatedly by public health authorities and governments alike all over the world and amplified by the media, that breakthrough cases were "rare". But we all know now that was hooey. At this point, nearly everyone I know has had COVID, vaccinated or not. I suspect that's true for most people.

The science suggests, as expos4ever has said repeatedly on this thread, that vaccination provides strong protection against serious illness, hospitalisation and potentially death.

Not even the CEO of Pfizer agrees with this statement;

"The two doses, they're not enough for omicron," Bourla said. "The third dose of the current vaccine is providing quite good protection against deaths, and decent protection against hospitalizations."

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/pfi...d-vaccine-doses-arent-enough-for-omicron.html​

Of course, the CEO of Pfizer has an enormous financial conflict of interest in pushing third doses on the most bare bones of data, so you might want to take anything he recommends with a massive grain of salt.

There is less evidence, but some, that it makes you less transmissible.

Not sure what evidence you're referring to. All you have to do is look at the massive outbreaks all over the world in highly vaccinated countries to see that transmission is quite high, even amongst highly vaccinated populations. There have been huge outbreaks in fully vaccinated colleges. The list goes on.

However, you can still contract the virus. That's why you keep taking standard measures, including distancing, wearing a proper mask when you can't distance, try to use ventilated areas, and stay home when sick.

Right. Now that the virus is even more transmissible than before, let's do all the same things that didn't work for the less transmissible variants. That'll work for sure this time!

 

[J Michael]

Right. Now that the virus is even more transmissible than before, let's do all the same things that didn't work for the less transmissible variants. That'll work for sure this time!

I believe that fits the definition of insanity. Makes the notion of "mass formation psychosis" more legit.

 

[expos4ever]

You guys keep "complaining" about needing all these boosters. Well, that is certainly not an argument that the vaccines are not working despite your repeated efforts to spin it that way.

We need to exercise regularly - we need a "booster" of exercise every 2 or 3 days - to maintain fitness.

Does that mean exercise does not "work" to promote fitness, just because you need "boosters" of exercise?

 

[probinson]

You guys keep "complaining" about needing all these boosters. Well, that is certainly not an argument that the vaccines are not working despite your repeated efforts to spin it that way.

So what's the plan? Boosters every 10 weeks for the rest of your life?

Surely you're not suggesting with your remarkably poor attempt to draw a comparison between vaccines and exercise that you need a vaccine every week from now until forever. Or are you?

Frequent Boosters Spur Warning on Immune Response

 

[alertandawake]

So what's the plan? Boosters every 10 weeks for the rest of your life?

With what I have seen so far, and of the conditioning today, I think many would. As that seems to be the answer to everything today.

Probably because we were told, incessantly and repeatedly by public health authorities and governments alike all over the world and amplified by the media, that breakthrough cases were "rare". But we all know now that was hooey. At this point, nearly everyone I know has had COVID, vaccinated or not. I suspect that's true for most people.

This I agree. And this "breakthrough cases", that to me is just another way of saying the vaccine didn't work on the person getting the shot.

What amazes me when reading articles, is that if unvaccinated people who get covid ends up in ICU and are for some reason a strain on the health system, but if a vaccinated person gets covid and ends up in ICU, because the person is vaccinated they not a strain on the health care system? How does that even make any sense?

But as usual with today, when one analyses what they are being told, but as soon as one finds a weakness in the armor, "That's misinformation".

 

[expos4ever]

Not sure what evidence you're referring to. All you have to do is look at the massive outbreaks all over the world in highly vaccinated countries to see that transmission is quite high, even amongst highly vaccinated populations. There have been huge outbreaks in fully vaccinated colleges. The list goes on.

You have been provided with this evidence in this very thread.

From post 6:

A South African study shows that the vaccine is still somewhat effective at preventing transmission:

In the population in the South African study, the Pfizer vaccine's effectiveness against infection dropped down to about 30% for the omicron variant, compared with about 80% against the variant before omicron, the scientists reported.

30% is better than 0% (no vaccine).

And this, from an epidemiologist at American University:

The preliminary data about omicron and vaccines is coming in quickly and is revealing lower vaccine effectiveness. Best estimates suggest vaccines are around 30%-40% effective at preventing infections and 70% effective at preventing severe disease.

Again, 30-40% is better than nothing.

 

[expos4ever]

What amazes me when reading articles, is that if unvaccinated people who get covid ends up in ICU and are for some reason a strain on the health system, but if a vaccinated person gets covid and ends up in ICU, because the person is vaccinated they not a strain on the health care system? How does that even make any sense?

It does not make sense.

However, no one ever said such a ridiculous thing - you are constructing a strawman.

 

[probinson]

Again, 30-40% is better than nothing.

But well under the 50% the FDA said was required for EUA.

 

[probinson]

It does not make sense.

However, no one ever said such a ridiculous thing - you are constructing a strawman.

It's what you've been implying all along. Mandates will reduce strain on hospitals. But that's simply not true as anyone who looks at highly vaccinated areas can see.