Vaccination: Mandate Momentum

[ToddNotTodd]

The thing that amuses me, is that it is mostly the people on the right, the “trump supporters” who think that the virus is either fake, over played, or not as dangerous as it is.

but that’s not the part I find numerous. Most of them are also against taking the vaccine as they feel it is either “the mark of the beast” or will poison you, or any other random conspiracy. Yet trump himself claims to have made it possible and claims to be the reason it is available as quickly as it was with “operation warp speed”.

The switch between (quite often by the same person in the same conversation) “thank Trump for getting the vaccine out so quickly” and “heck no I’m not getting the Bill Gates cyber tracking vaccine” is a wonder to behold. It’s as if Trump supporters have developed multiple personality disorder all at the same time…

 

[Benjamin413]

Well I personally don’t understand this at all. We shouldn’t think that someone is a threat. We shouldn’t live in fear. I don’t live in fear and I don’t treat anybody as a threat. But that’s just me. Bible says (was it 365 times?) ”Don’t be afraid”. That is one for each day in a year.

True. But businesses place safeguards all the time. Which is their right to do. Just like people have the right to refuse the vaccine and go someplace else

 

[RDKirk]

It makes some sense, considering that it has always been the case that people with COVID are most infectious relatively early, before the disease gets really bad, and even before they might realize they are ill.

"When the disease gets really bad" is when the body begins to respond with symptoms from the successful invasion of the virus. But a vaccinated person should never have a successful invasion of the virus.

Let's say we have two people who have been in contact with measles, one person is immune (having had measles before or having been vaccinated), the other person has not. The usual situation is that the immune person never develops the same viral load.

They are saying that vaccinated people against Covid-19 are developing the same Delta viral load as unvaccinated persons...and they are expressing surprise about it. This is an unusual finding.

 

[RDKirk]

I would take the bullet too, because bullet doesn’t have incredients which are harmful for my temple which is my body.

Why, then, do people who are shot by bullets die at a greater rate than people taking the vaccine?

Do you know anyone who has been shot by a bullet?

 

[RDKirk]

The switch between (quite often by the same person in the same conversation) “thank Trump for getting the vaccine out so quickly” and “heck no I’m not getting the Bill Gates cyber tracking vaccine” is a wonder to behold. It’s as if Trump supporters have developed multiple personality disorder all at the same time…

I keep saying: It's a spiritual delusion.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But you have no right to make that decision for others. Governments must do what is in the best interests of everyone.

Who are you referring to when you say “others”? People who are vaccinated or people who aren’t? Aren’t you saying here that those who choose to remain unvaccinated are a danger to those who choose to remain unvaccinated? But then again it’s common knowledge that even those who are vaccinated can still carry and transmit the virus. So they’re just as much of a threat to those who choose not to be vaccinated as those who choose not to be vaccinated. Something to ponder…

 

[FireDragon76]

"When the disease gets really bad" is when the body begins to respond with symptoms from the successful invasion of the virus. But a vaccinated person should never have a successful invasion of the virus.

Let's say we have two people who have been in contact with measles, one person is immune (having had measles before or having been vaccinated), the other person has not. The usual situation is that the immune person never develops the same viral load.

They are saying that vaccinated people against Covid-19 are developing the same Delta viral load as unvaccinated persons...and they are expressing surprise about it. This is an unusual finding.

Vaccines don't always prevent infection, of course- that's really not why we traditionally vaccinate, anyways. Delta is causing vaccinated people to get mild disease, but it seems to generally stop short of putting you in the hospital.

There's no question the virus seems to be getting tougher in the face of vaccination. In the worst case, the SinoVax vaccine, which used to be decent against the Alpha variant, is having real challenges protecting against Delta and Lambda. Even some Chinese authorities have admitted as much.

I keep saying: It's a spiritual delusion.

It's really a societal moral failing with complex origins, but "spiritual delusion" is as good an analogy as any.

 

[sandman]

Your still mocking it, the vaccine is the protection, god is under no obligation to protect you while you treat the virus as if it's not dangerous and using the means to protect yourself. God gave you the vaccine, hiding behind him isn't going to make him protect you, especially if you going to try to force his hands. God helps those who help themselves.

I have searched the Bible for many years and have yet to find a verse that says “God helps those who help themselves” That is something that is made up by religion for those who do not want to believe in the integrity of the truth of Gods Word.

What I do find is God stating 1 Pet 5:7 Casting all your cares (anxiety) upon him; for He careth for you.

Why should we cast them to God …..because anxiety breeds fear …and fear defeat the promises of God.

Gods obligation is to His Word ….He can do no less than what He has promised in His Word. On top of the truth…. He is my Father…we are his sons and daughters…. He absolutely wants us to shield us and protect us. Any earthly father worth his salt would give up his life protecting his kids ….Would God do any less than an earthly father?

Psalms 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

I don’t always get it right…. but I have seen the power of God in my life multiple times …..many times when I unquestionably should been dead …It’s there it’s real and I believe …and the only thing that ever defeats the power of God in someone’s life is fear.

Shadrack, Meshack, and to bed we go… pretty much says it all….

Daniel 3

16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.

17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

 

[FireDragon76]

I have searched the Bible for many years and have yet to find a verse that says “God helps those who help themselves” That is something that is made up by religion for those who do not want to believe in the integrity of the truth of Gods Word.

It's not in the Bible, but socially responsible Christians have never understood faith as protecting people from foolishness.

 

[sandman]

It's not in the Bible, but socially responsible Christians have never understood faith as protecting people from foolishness.

So…I guess that makes me socially irresponsible ……………..….I can live with that too….if it means I am pleasing God

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

 

[pitabread]

So…I guess that makes me socially irresponsible ……………..….I can live with that too….if it means I am pleasing God

I always find it interesting when people use religious beliefs to justify harmful behaviors. :/

 

[RDKirk]

Vaccines don't always prevent infection, of course- that's really not why we traditionally vaccinate, anyways. Delta is causing vaccinated people to get mild disease, but it seems to generally stop short of putting you in the hospital.

When invaded by a virus, the body's initial response is through the "innate immune system," which creates the symptoms that make us feel sick...and if allowed to run amok, may even kill us. That system begins to take effect very quickly, within hours of infection.

Vaccines set up an acquired immune response in persons who have not previously had a genuine infection to have developed an acquired immune response beforehand. If a person does not already have an acquired immune response to that particular virus, it will take the body about 2 to 3 weeks to develop one. But if a response to that virus already exists, it takes the acquired immune response system only hours to respond.

The acquired immune response does two things: It suppresses further replication of the virus and it also suppresses the body's innate immune system response--it squelches the symptoms of the innate immune system. So the quick response of the acquired immune system because of vaccination handles the infection before the innate immune system gets out of hand.

That's why a vaccinated person can be infected without presenting symptoms--the acquired immune response took care of the problem before the innate immune system got rolling.

But still there should be less of a viral load in the vaccinated person, and that is usually the case with other viruses. From what has been said so far, the vaccine is suppressing the innate immune system without stopping Delta from replicating.

So I'm in the process of asking questions about that.

 

[loveofourlord]

So…I guess that makes me socially irresponsible ……………..….I can live with that too….if it means I am pleasing God

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

hmmmm...right because of all those versus in the bible about kill others before they kill you, kill those weaker then yourself. The strong shall inherit the earth and such...your mocking god and the virus with these kind of statements. I doubt got is going to take kindly to those that kill others out of selfishness and not trying to protect their fellow man.

 

[loveofourlord]

So…I guess that makes me socially irresponsible ……………..….I can live with that too….if it means I am pleasing God

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

I remember something about in the bible about do not test god.

 

[cow451]

I have searched the Bible for many years and have yet to find a verse that says “God helps those who help themselves” That is something that is made up by religion for those who do not want to believe in the integrity of the truth of Gods Word.

What I do find is God stating 1 Pet 5:7 Casting all your cares (anxiety) upon him; for He careth for you.

Why should we cast them to God …..because anxiety breeds fear …and fear defeat the promises of God.

Gods obligation is to His Word ….He can do no less than what He has promised in His Word. On top of the truth…. He is my Father…we are his sons and daughters…. He absolutely wants us to shield us and protect us. Any earthly father worth his salt would give up his life protecting his kids ….Would God do any less than an earthly father?

Psalms 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

I don’t always get it right…. but I have seen the power of God in my life multiple times …..many times when I unquestionably should been dead …It’s there it’s real and I believe …and the only thing that ever defeats the power of God in someone’s life is fear.

Shadrack, Meshack, and to bed we go… pretty much says it all….

Daniel 3

16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.

17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

Matthew 7:7-8 speaks to being offered and the choice to accept or refuse.

In John 9, Jesus was willing to heal the man blind from birth… but the man was given instructions to follow.

I appreciate the correction on the old saying, which apparently goes back to Ancient Greece.

 

[hedrick]

I need to do some specific investigation about a point in that regard.

I have heard from sources I trust that vaccinated persons "infected" by Delta are being found carrying the same "viral load" of Delta as unvaccinated persons "infected" by Delta.

By my understanding, "same viral load" indicates that the Delta variant is just as successfully active and replicating in a vaccinated person as in an unvaccinated person. That doesn't seem possible, however, comparing the difference between the two groups in symptoms presented.

So I have questions.

The NJ state epidemiologist was asked that today. He said the evidence for this was based primarily on testing in one cluster of cases. Testing was of nasal swabs. This is relevant because that’s often how the virus comes in, and exhalations often spread it. But that doesn’t mean that the virus was in their system in general, and the fact that vaccines protect against illness suggests that they do reduce virus in the body.

Going beyond what he said. It also appears that in the US vaccinated people don’t test positive as often as non vaccinated, though the advantage is stronger for more serious illness. So the point seems to be that if you do test positive you may have the same level of virus in your nose, but you are less likely to test positive. (Note that much of the testing is done by nasal swab.)

My understanding of the term viral load is that it is commonly used for virus in the body, so if you don’t look at the details the recent statements could be misleading.

 

[sandman]

I remember something about in the bible about do not test god.

Testing God would be like testing your teacher …they both have the answer sheets.

But you were probably referencing something else…

KJV does not use the word test…. but some other versions do. The majority of the time it is used as tempt or tempter like after Jesus fasted 40 days in the wilderness and the devil tried to tempt Him …

It is used as try and prove (almost the same way) a couple of times…. when God askes his people in Malachi 3 (I think) to prove him now herewith if He would not open the windows of heaven and pour them out blessings that they would not have room enough to receive it. (I probable should quote these, but you get the gist.)

 

[RDKirk]

The NJ state epidemiologist was asked that today. He said the evidence for this was based primarily on testing in one cluster of cases. Testing was of nasal swabs. This is relevant because that’s often how the virus comes in, and exhalations often spread it. But that doesn’t mean that the virus was in their system in general, and the fact that vaccines protect against illness suggests that they do reduce virus in the body.

Going beyond what he said. It also appears that in the US vaccinated people don’t test positive as often as non vaccinated, though the advantage is stronger for more serious illness. So the point seems to be that if you do test positive you may have the same level of virus in your nose, but you are less likely to test positive. (Note that much of the testing is done by nasal swab.)

My understanding of the term viral load is that it is commonly used for virus in the body, so if you don’t look at the details the recent statements could be misleading.

Those are the details I'm asking about.

 

[busrider]

I would take the bullet too, because bullet doesn’t have incredients which are harmful for my temple which is my body. You or anybody else can judge me thousand times for that, I forgive you and for all those who judge thousand and one times. Be blessed.

There is no judgement, just frustration at the stupidly of people that believe absolute lies about the vaccine. The internet made pretend believers, I blame the internet for your desire to die and not care for others as a Christian should not you.

 

[busrider]

The thing that amuses me, is that it is mostly the people on the right, the “trump supporters” who think that the virus is either fake, over played, or not as dangerous as it is.

but that’s not the part I find numerous. Most of them are also against taking the vaccine as they feel it is either “the mark of the beast” or will poison you, or any other random conspiracy. Yet trump himself claims to have made it possible and claims to be the reason it is available as quickly as it was with “operation warp speed”.

They will die in their ignorance and take many others with them thinking they are the righteous