"Understanding Biblical Murder (by Moses) and other Biblical Misconceptions"

[tooldtocare]

Ask a Jew -- a Jew's View

Ok, what is your view

Just asking -

 

[tooldtocare]

I see a problem that may be developing with many viewers

It’s the scale

.,,……..,,.,.,..,.,,.,As an experiment,

Hold down your [CTRL] while rolling your mouse roller up or down

What do you see-?

Just asking -

 

[tooldtocare]

I was circumcised when I was a baby. Does that mean I am Jewish?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

.

 

[tooldtocare]

If your mother is Jewish

She is no longer with us so I cannot ask her

and the circumcision was performed by a mohel
then yes you are Jewish

I don't know where it was performed. I had other things on my mind at the time

, if not, then you are just a little bit lighter.

Ok, maybe I am just a little lighter & I will leave it at that. I am off to other discussions.
bye -

 

[Open Heart]

I was circumcised when I was a baby. Does that mean I am Jewish?

Circumcision doesn't make a person a Jew. It brings a Jewish son into the covenant.

 

[tooldtocare]

(Gen 37:1 KJV) And Jacob dwelt in the land wherein his father was a stranger, in the land of Canaan.

Ps Jacob was renamed “Israel”

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Iacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God, and with men, and hast preuailed.

(Deu 2:29 KJV) (As the children of Esau which dwell in Seir, and the Moabites which dwell in Ar, did unto me until I shall pass over Jordan into the land which the LORD our God giveth us.

(Gen 41:44 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.

(Gen 41:46 KJV) And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt.

Joseph who is now the de facto ruler over all of Egypt saves the Israelites who are experiencing a great famine and moves them to Egypt and gives them power over all the agriculture lands. Clearly they were not slaves as some would have believed.

(Gen 41:57 KJV) And all countries came into Egypt to Joseph for to buy corn; because that the famine was so sore in all lands.

(Gen 42:1 KJV) Now when Jacob saw that there was corn in Egypt, Jacob said unto his sons, Why do ye look one upon another?

(Gen 42:2 KJV) And he said, Behold, I have heard that there is corn in Egypt: get you down thither, and buy for us from thence;

(Gen 42:3 KJV) And Joseph's ten brethren went down to buy corn in Egypt.

(Gen 42:5 KJV) And the sons of Israel came to buy corn among those that came: for the famine was in the land of Canaan.

(Gen 42:6 KJV) And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land:

(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:

(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.

(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

[ ** See “Canaan” and "Goshen" descriptions. Canaan was not the homeland of the Israelites, they just occupied it ]

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

(Gen 47:4 KJV) They said moreover unto Pharaoh, For to sojourn in the land are we come; for thy servants have no pasture for their flocks; for the famine is sore in the land of Canaan: now therefore, we pray thee, let thy servants dwell in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:5 KJV) And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [ISRAEL] and thy brethren are come unto thee:

(Gen 47:6 KJV) The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle.

(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [ISRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.

NOTE: The Israelites pack up everything and move to Egypt leaving everything behind and live in Egypt for 400+ years


As a bystander, my question to you is, the above period was a great time for the Jewish people, what happened to change this?

 

[LoAmmi]

(Gen 37:1 KJV) And Jacob dwelt in the land wherein his father was a stranger, in the land of Canaan.

Ps Jacob was renamed “Israel”

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Iacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God, and with men, and hast preuailed.

(Deu 2:29 KJV) (As the children of Esau which dwell in Seir, and the Moabites which dwell in Ar, did unto me until I shall pass over Jordan into the land which the LORD our God giveth us.

(Gen 41:44 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.

(Gen 41:46 KJV) And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt.

Joseph who is now the de facto ruler over all of Egypt saves the Israelites who are experiencing a great famine and moves them to Egypt and gives them power over all the agriculture lands. Clearly they were not slaves as some would have believed.

(Gen 41:57 KJV) And all countries came into Egypt to Joseph for to buy corn; because that the famine was so sore in all lands.

(Gen 42:1 KJV) Now when Jacob saw that there was corn in Egypt, Jacob said unto his sons, Why do ye look one upon another?

(Gen 42:2 KJV) And he said, Behold, I have heard that there is corn in Egypt: get you down thither, and buy for us from thence;

(Gen 42:3 KJV) And Joseph's ten brethren went down to buy corn in Egypt.

(Gen 42:5 KJV) And the sons of Israel came to buy corn among those that came: for the famine was in the land of Canaan.

(Gen 42:6 KJV) And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land:

(Gen 42:25 KJV) Then Joseph commanded to fill their sacks with corn, and to restore every man's money into his sack, and to give them provision for the way:

(Gen 45:20 KJV) Also regard not your stuff; for the good of all the land of Egypt is yours.

(Gen 45:21 KJV) And the children of Israel did so: and Joseph gave them wagons, according to the commandment of Pharaoh, and gave them provision for the way.

(Gen 47:1 KJV) Then Joseph came and told Pharaoh, and said, My father [ISRAEL] and my brethren, and their flocks, and their herds, and all that they have, are come out of the land of Canaan; and, behold, they are in the land of Goshen.

[ ** See “Canaan” and "Goshen" descriptions. Canaan was not the homeland of the Israelites, they just occupied it ]

(Gen 47:3 KJV) And Pharaoh said unto his brethren, What is your occupation? And they said unto Pharaoh, Thy servants are shepherds, both we, and also our fathers.

(Gen 47:4 KJV) They said moreover unto Pharaoh, For to sojourn in the land are we come; for thy servants have no pasture for their flocks; for the famine is sore in the land of Canaan: now therefore, we pray thee, let thy servants dwell in the land of Goshen.

(Gen 47:5 KJV) And Pharaoh spake unto Joseph, saying, Thy father [ISRAEL] and thy brethren are come unto thee:

(Gen 47:6 KJV) The land of Egypt is before thee; in the best of the land make thy father and brethren to dwell; in the land of Goshen let them dwell: and if thou knowest any men of activity among them, then make them rulers over my cattle.

(Gen 47:11 KJV) And Joseph placed his father [ISRAEL] and his brethren, and gave them a possession in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded.

NOTE: The Israelites pack up everything and move to Egypt leaving everything behind and live in Egypt for 400+ years


As a bystander, my question to you is, the above period was a great time for the Jewish people, what happened to change this?

Not sure I fully understand your question but if you mean what went wrong in Egypt:

Exodus 1
8 Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt. 9 “Look,” he said to his people, “the Israelites have become far too numerous for us. 10 Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country.”

 

[Open Heart]

Glad to see you here, Lo Ammi!

 

[tooldtocare]

Not sure I fully understand your question but if you mean what went wrong in Egypt:

Exodus 1: .,.,.,.,if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country.”

What did the Israelite's do that would cause such a statement-? I think what was being said is; they are our enemies so what do we do with them? But before they decide, Moses does what they feared all along.

And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brothers, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brothers. And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand. And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Why smite you your fellow?

Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelled in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.

More murdering by the Israelite's
​

(Exo 12:27 KJV) That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

(Exo 12:28 KJV) And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

The Lord did not command this killing
they just said this to lie to themselves​

(Exo 12:29 KJV) And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt,.,.,.,.Not the Lord I know, He forbids killing and not a doer of it

(Exo 12:30 KJV) And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.

<Staff Edit>

 

[LoAmmi]

What did the Israelite's do that would cause such a statement-? I think what was being said is; they are our enemies so what do we do with them? But before they decide, Moses does what they feared all along.

And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brothers, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brothers. And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand. And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Why smite you your fellow?

Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelled in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.

It's worth mentioning that Moses is shown to be the adopted son of the Pharaoh and not some common slave. But, yes, Moses grows angry at seeing how his people are treated and kills a man.

More murdering by the Israelite's

(Exo 12:27 KJV) That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

(Exo 12:28 KJV) And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

The Lord did not command this killing
they just said this to lie to themselves​

(Exo 12:29 KJV) And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt,.,.,.,.Not the Lord I know, He forbids killing and not a doer of it


(Exo 12:30 KJV) And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.

Ok. This is all pretty much against the Bible. In the Bible, it is the Lord that does this, not the people.

But killing is what they do best, then and now​

Bullets fired from the tank flew through the classroom window, hitting Mahmoud Hamad in the neck and Hisham al Habil in the head. The boys had not even been sitting by the windows but in the middle of the room.

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/index.html

Photos of a 12 year old palestinian boy being shot by Israeli soldiers and the ambulance driver who tried to save him also being shot and killed.
http://www.palestine-net.com/misc/durra/

Three-year-old Rawan Abu Zeid, who took bullets in the neck and head while buying candy with her friends.

5 June 2004
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2785.shtml

An eight-year-old Palestinian girl shot dead by Israeli troops in the central Gaza Strip was killed while showing off her new school uniform to friends
http://tinyurl.com/99kh8zk

I could post hundreds more of the deliberate killing of children if you want more proof

Ask me and I will provide -

And I could point out where Palestinians have killed Israeli boys and girls. The problem in Israel isn't the Jews or the Palestinians, it's that the leaders on both sides have little interest in finding peace and putting themselves out of their position of power. The current Israeli PM was losing the race until he basically doubled down on his anti-Palestine rhetoric and kept his power that way.

But if you're trying to say, basically, that Jews are all killers, well that's just offensive and wrong.

 

[LoAmmi]

+

​

Killing is one thing & murder is another. Moses murders a man in cold blood. Which is a total violation of one of the Ten Commandments. Care to guess which one?​

Well, if we're going by the Torah, the Ten Commandments had yet to be handed out. However, I would agree, Moses murdered an Egyptian and fled. That Moses was chosen by the Lord to be His prophet says more about how the Lord can redeem people than Moses being awesome.​

​

Killing (murder) is not "pretty much" against the Lord's teaching; it is totally against it; period, no if/buts/or whats

Yes, but you are saying you don't like what's recorded in the Bible. I can't help you with that.

Go for it, I will be your witness. Just make sure it's "boys & girls that the Palestinians murdered and not IDF killers

http://www.takeapen.org/Takeapen/Templates/showpage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=84&FID=922

Not that this justifies deaths on either side, but children on both sides are being killed.

If that helps you sleep at night then continue telling yourself this

Not sure what you're on about here. I see the lack of peace being a result of the lack of leadership on both sides being willing to find it. I even pointed out the Israeli PM's actions. Is English your native tongue?

What is wrong is hiding behind the "Jew" word. They, the child murderers are not Jews, they are Israelite's. There is a difference; a big difference

Israeli is a word that covers those who are citizens of the country of Israeli. Israelite is the word used for those people who came out of Egypt and went into the land of Israel. Jew is a word for those who were left of the Southern Kingdom of Judah, though it is typically used for all the Hebrew people.

BTW you left out Passover; what's up?
-

Left out what? The Lord went through Egypt and all the firstborn were killed that were not in the houses with the blood above the door. You're the one who has issue with the Bible, not me.

 

[tooldtocare]

Well, if we're going by the Torah, the Ten Commandments had yet to be handed out.​

I believe I have learned something. Moses was given the Ten Commandments after he murders a man. Which was after Passover as well.

However, I would agree, Moses murdered an Egyptian and fled.

At least you did not deny it, thanks

That Moses was chosen by the Lord to be His prophet says more about how the Lord can redeem people than Moses being awesome.

This is where you and I go down different paths. There is nothing awesome about murdering someone.

I believe the Lord (God) chose the Israelite people to be the example of goodness and caring and loving for everyone to see setting an example for all to follow​

(Mal 3:5 KJV) And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

(Ezek 14:7 KJV) For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to inquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 24:19 KJV) When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

(Deu 24:20 KJV) When thou beatest thine olive tree, thou shalt not go over the boughs again: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Deu 24:21 KJV) When thou gatherest the grapes of thy vineyard, thou shalt not glean it afterward: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow.

(Jer 7:6 KJV) If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:

(Jer 22:3 KJV) Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.

(Zec 7:10 KJV) And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

(Exo 22:21 KJV) Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Exo 23:9 KJV) Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

(Lev 19:34 KJV) But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

(Lev 25:35 KJV) And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.

(Deu 1:16 KJV) And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

(Deu 10:18 KJV) He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

(Deu 10:19 KJV) Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

I believe the Lord (God) chose the Israelite people to be the example of goodness and caring and loving for everyone to see setting an example for all to follow

The Israeli's are being judged right now and you and I will witness the conclusion of His judgement. Again, we will see judgement day in our lifetime

-

​

 

[LoAmmi]

I believe I have learned something. Moses was given the Ten Commandments after he murders a man. Which was after Passover as well.​

If you don't know the Torah, how can you attempt to educate us on it?


Seems you have an ax to grind with Israel. I'm not an Israeli. I was born and live in the United States. I have nothing to do with Israeli politics, though I do have opinions on their policies.​

 

[tooldtocare]

If you don't know the Torah, how can you attempt to educate us on it?​

I don’t know who the “us” is cause I am talking to you.

My parents were Catholic. I was baptized in a Catholic Church when I was a baby. In my early 20’s I was baptized in my wife’s Baptist Church. Now I just call myself a Christian. And leave it at that

Muḥammad[n 1] (Arabic: محمد‎‎; c. 570 CE – 8 June 632 CE)[1] is the central figure of Islam and widely regarded as its founder by non-Muslims.[2] He is known as the "Holy Prophet" to Muslims, almost all of whom consider him to be the last prophet sent by God to mankind[3][n 2] to restore Islam, believed by Muslims to be the unaltered original monotheistic faith of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets.[4][5][6][7] Muhammad united Arabia into a single Muslim polity and ensured that his teachings, practices, and the Quran, formed the basis of Islamic religious belief.

I was given a “Bible” with the Old & New Testaments bound together when I was a boy. I have not seen a “Torah” bible or read what is inside. And then and again I have not read the book of Islam.

All I know is love your neighbor Islam as you love your Christian neighbors. No spitting allowed

-

 

[LoAmmi]

My parents were Catholic. I was baptized in a Catholic Church when I was a baby. In my early 20’s I was baptized in my wife’s Baptist Church. Now I just call myself a Christian. And leave it at that

Good.

Muḥammad[n 1] (Arabic: محمد‎‎; c. 570 CE – 8 June 632 CE)[1] is the central figure of Islam and widely regarded as its founder by non-Muslims.[2] He is known as the "Holy Prophet" to Muslims, almost all of whom consider him to be the last prophet sent by God to mankind[3][n 2] to restore Islam, believed by Muslims to be the unaltered original monotheistic faith of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets.[4][5][6][7] Muhammad united Arabia into a single Muslim polity and ensured that his teachings, practices, and the Quran, formed the basis of Islamic religious belief.

I have no idea why you posted this here.

I was given a “Bible” with the Old & New Testaments bound together when I was a boy. I have not seen a “Torah” bible or read what is inside. And then and again I have not read the book of Islam.

Perhaps if you come into a section that's has for its purpose of bringing Jews who practice Judaism and Christian Jews together, you should ask more than you comment when you are ignorant of basic phrases. The Torah is, generally, the first five books of what you call the Old Testament. It is the fundamental text of the Jewish faith. The rest of the "Old Testament" is called the Tanakh. So, when I say you don't know the Torah, I mean that.

All I know is love your neighbor Islam as you love your Christian neighbors. No spitting allowed

-

To my knowledge, I have never spat upon a person since I've been a child.

 

[All4Christ]

 

[tooldtocare]

<staff edit>​

And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brothers, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brothers. And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand. And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Why smite you your fellow?

and he spied an Egyptian

he slew the Egyptian

behold, two men of the Hebrews

said to him that did the wrong, Why smite you your fellow?

The onlookers are saying Moses murders a fellow Jew not an “Egyptian” ?

-

 

[LoAmmi]

Since you are going to delete this post and the others and most likely me too

may you and yours live long and prosper​

And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brothers, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brothers. And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand. And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Why smite you your fellow?

and he spied an Egyptian

he slew the Egyptian

behold, two men of the Hebrews

said to him that did the wrong, Why smite you your fellow?

The onlookers are saying Moses murders a fellow Jew not an “Egyptian” ?

-

Because they believed Moses was an Egyptian. He was the adopted son of the Pharaoh. They had no reason to believe he was anything but another Egyptian, but one who just killed another Egyptian.

 

[LoAmmi]

Since you are going to delete this post and the others and most likely me too

may you and yours live long and prosper​

And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brothers, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brothers. And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand. And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Why smite you your fellow?

and he spied an Egyptian

he slew the Egyptian

behold, two men of the Hebrews

said to him that did the wrong, Why smite you your fellow?

The onlookers are saying Moses murders a fellow Jew not an “Egyptian” ?

-

There's something that's been bothering me in this thread and I'd like to address it. Earlier, you stated that the Lord you follow does not kill people, however that is in stark contrast not only to what the Bible has to say about it, but what His role in the Universe is. If one believes, as Judaism and Christianity teach, that He is in control of everything, then it is by His will that all die. You do not die one second before He allows it. Isaiah writes:
Isaiah 45:
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Calamity is by the Lord's will. Life and death are both in His domain.

You mention a judging of Israel. What would that judging entail? Destruction of Israel? That would not be deathless. In Genesis, He destroys Sodom and all the residents die. It was not some group of people but He Himself did it. I'm not sure where you get your notion that He does not cause people to die because that robs Him of the supreme sovereignty He holds over the Universe.