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Turkey says Trump declaring Jerusalem to be Israel's capital will start 'fire with no end in sight'

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by NightHawkeye, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    OK. Should we begin with the Armenian massacre in the early years of the 20th century, wherein well over a million Armenians, primarily Christians, were slaughtered by Turkish Islamists. The massacre was so effective that Hitler is said to have copied his final solution for Jews from the Armenian massacre.

    To this day the Turkish government refuses to acknowledge that the Armenian massacre even happened.
     
  2. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired)

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    Sometimes God uses a wrecking bar. :eek:
     
  3. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired)

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    That would be like reading a novel, beginning at the last chapter.
     
  4. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy The artist formerly known as miniverchivi Supporter

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    You can if you'd like...however, it's not exactly relevant to why the Palestinians are upset about foreign interests carving up their country in order to bring 100,000 Jewish refugees in post ww2...and why they would view it as a huge slap in the face for the US embassy to be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
     
  5. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy The artist formerly known as miniverchivi Supporter

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    More like reading a historical text, and starting with the information that's pertinent to why some are upset over the precise comments that are being discussed.

    I know how these conversations go...no matter what angle you go at it from, fundamentalists tend to always try to find a reason why "if you go back far enough, the Muslims are the bad guys".
     
  6. Gadarene

    Gadarene -______-

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    Indeed.

    Also I thought American interventionism was supposed to be bad now and yet y'all are doing it more than ever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  7. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Allow me to help you understand a little more of what drives the middle east. ISIS is driven by what happened a century ago in WWI. Don't take my word for it though. Listen to what the BBC says ...

    Sykes-Picot: The map that spawned a century of resentment

    Reaching its centenary amidst a general chorus of vilification around the region, the legacy of the secret Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916 has never looked more under assault.
    ...
    And the militants of the self-styled Islamic State (IS), bulldozing the border between Iraq and Syria in June 2014, declared their intention to eradicate all the region's frontiers and lay Sykes-Picot to rest forever.
    The intent of Sykes-Picot was to prevent a powerful Arab state from rising in the middle east.
     
  8. Ygrene Imref

    Ygrene Imref Well-Known Member

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    God chooses tyrants, dictators and evil people to judge nations - especially Israel (which is a physical body of people, not land.)

    In fact, that is Dan's purpose.


    Even if Trump was hand-picked by God to be president, that doesn't mean it is because Trump will help America and the world. In fact, any nation/kingdom leaders hand-picked by God has been Judgment to Israel (a physical nation of bodies, not land,) since after Solomon - particularly after Christ.
     
  9. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired)

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    If you go back to the beginning of the controversy you'll no doubt be even more confused. But at some point you'll probably choose one side or the other as this conflict won't continue forever.
     
  10. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    Historically, almost no nations recognized it as so, because it was seized during war, contravening international norms of justice.
     
  11. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired)

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    The international norms of war are to the victors belong the spoils. Possession of Jerusalem has been tenuous for thousands of years for all who conquered it. Note that there is a time limit placed on Jerusalem being trodden underfoot by the gentiles. That time might be just about up. :eek:
     
  12. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    If God wants to re-establish Jerusalem, he is certainly free to do so (perhaps by sending down an army of angels), however my faith tells me that seizing lands that don't belong to you is not just.
     
  13. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, our last four or five presidents supported moving the embassy but, Trump is actually going to keep his word and do it.

    Say what you mean and mean what you say.

    M-Bob
     
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  14. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired)

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    God owns all lands.
     
  15. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Well now---I wonder if a bunch of nations getting together and deciding that the capital of the USA should be Jacksonville, Florida would be acceptable to most of us. Nobody had the right to tell the Israelis' where their capital should be to begin with. God gave them their land, it is theirs and they were not to give it away. What they did wrong was to agree to give away their land to the Palestinians who never existed to begin with. If they had stuck with this is our land, period, and not allowed anyone but God to tell them what to do with it---they wouldn't be in this mess. He would have tended to the details as He always has. God has His won plans and He will do what He wants no matter what the whole world thinks about it.
     
  16. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired)

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    The other Arab nations want the Palestinians to have their own homeland so they don't have to deal with them. This latest dustup will hinder that process.
     
  17. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    How does the modern state of Israel inherit anything from the Old Testament, I am confused by that... I don't see that as part of the historic Christian faith, I see it as speculation and innovation. My hope as a Christian is in Jesus, not Israel.

    Jewish Palestine was destroyed by the Romans. I don't see any evidence the modern state of Israel has any claims to the land except a British mandate and the UN. The UN recognized the state of Israel with it's 1948 borders, and that's generally considered the boundaries of the modern state of Israel. Here on earth, the rule of law is secular and based on reason, not esoteric readings of the Bible.
     
  18. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Alpha Male (Retired)

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    Christianity doesn't nullify or abrogate long standing prophecies and promises given by God in OT times, including those intended for the "end times".
     
  19. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    My religious is about Jesus, not prophecies. I don't see why I should accept stuff that is not edifying towards my faith but in fact harms my middle eastern neighbors by inflaming a volatile situation.

    The traditional Christian belief is that the promises made to Abraham were fulfilled in Christ, and the "promised land" is in heaven with God. Christians are the Israel of God. I do believe that God remembers his "ancient people", and loves them as he loves all peoples, but the obsession with Israel is quite unhealthy.
     
  20. TLK Valentine

    TLK Valentine You will be who you will be. We are our choices.

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    On the plus side, if anything nasty does come to pass, Donald can always find a Clinton to blame it on... this time, it happens to be Bill.
     
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