Trump: Vote For an Alleged Sexual Predator Because He’s Tough On Crime

[chilehed]

But we aren't talking about the Nazis are we?

I'm sure you'd like to avoid it, given what you have in common with them.

Murder is a legal term, and abortion does not meet the definition because the killing must be illegal. Abortion is not illegal.

Nor was killing Jews in Nazi Germany, but it was still murder.
Nor was killing black people in the Confederate States before the civil war, but it was still murder.

As I said, your claim is incoherent.

 

[Archivist]

I'm sure you'd like to avoid it, given what you have in common with them.


Nor was killing Jews in Nazi Germany, but it was still murder.
Nor was killing black people in the Confederate States before the civil war, but it was still murder.

As I said, your claim is incoherent.

This is when you can tell that a person has nothing to support their position--they start throwing insults. Now according to you my views and those of the Nazis are one and the same and my views are incoherent. So sorry that you apparently cannot carry on a polite conversation.

Again, we simply have to agree to disagree on the question of whether abortion is murder. We do agree that the Democrat in this race supports a woman's right to have an abortion. Since you are going to start throwing insults let's just leave it at that.

 

[Christie insb]

And you know this how?

Moore was a registered Democrat campaigning and performing the duties of his office as a proud member of the Democrat Party, don't you? How does that fit into your paradigm?
Please, illustrate for all of us who here ever said such behavior was Ok? Seriously, you made the charge, now back it up.

I an pretty old, and Southerners used to be Democrats because the Republican Party was the party of Lincoln, so maybe he was just like he is now, only blue. If not people change their political affiliation for various reasons. So what?
As far as the allegations, the cohesion of his statement

And you know this how?



Been hearing that excuse a lot lately. Tell us, what was primary concern which governed your thinking during the Clinton years as opposed to the primary concern which governs your thinking now?



Who here said they did not care about kids?

How do you rationalize a thought pattern which only allows you to conclude if person A believes the true concern of the liberal establishment is claiming Moore's Senate seat regardless of guilt or innocence they must not care about children? Or if they do not blindly accept the allegations as gospel truth because a woman made them they do not care about children? Such logic reeks of programming, not erudition.



I wouldn't send a 14 year old child to be a page for any politician. But you do know that at the time these incidents were alleged to have taken place, Moore was a registered Democrat campaigning and performing the duties of his office as a proud member of the Democrat Party, don't you? How does that fit into your paradigm?



And here we go again. If I do not blindly accept the narrative, I must hate children.



Please, illustrate for all of us who here ever said such behavior was Ok? Seriously, you made the charge, now back it up.

I was writing a post and then accidentally deleted it. So I will be brief.
I don't care about his political affiliation. He could be red or green or orange and if he did as they said, he needs to find a nice gas station where he can pump rich people's gas for them. What makes me think there is something there is 1. I think thou protests too much, Ray. He wouldn't be so on the one hand minimizing his behavior and on the other hand screaming bloody murder about some of the charges. 2. The stories by the women seem to go together but even more so, his being banned from the mall makes him seem like a very creepy guy. Anyway you are not going to change your mind and I am not going to waste my thumbs on you anymore.

 

[chilehed]

This is when you can tell that a person has nothing to support their position--they start throwing insults.

I made a reasonable and truthful observation about the intellectial content of your position, and that's not what "throwing insults" is. The Nazis believed that Jews had no human rights, and that killing innocent Jews was not murder because it was not against the civil law at the time. You believe that unborn babies have no human rights, and that killing innocent unborn babies is not murder because it is not against the civil law. Your view here is, in fact, the same as that of the Nazis, and is no more legitimate.

Now according to you my views and those of the Nazis are one and the same...

That's not at all what I said. What I said is that you have something in common with them, and it's true that you do have this thing in common.

...and my views are incoherent.

Again, that's a reasonable conclusion because in this matter they are.

So sorry that you apparently cannot carry on a polite conversation.

I'm sorry that you're apparently unwilling to reflect on your position when someone politely tells you something unpleasant that you don't want to see about yourself.

 

[archer75]

Trump of course would want someone misusing sex. Makes him feel more normal. I am sorry I supported Bill Clinton, but I can't go back and change it now. This is real stuff, and I hate it that people don't even care about kids. Young teens serve as pages for those guys. Would you send your 14 year-old daughter over to visit Moore or be a page for him, knowing what we know now? If not, why don't you care about other people's children. I am actually completely horrified that I, an immoral liberal, have to go on a Christian forum and say it's not okay for men in their thirties to be sexual with young teens. We really do need Jesus to come back. "Whoever causes one of these little ones to stumble, it is better that a millstone be tied around his neck and he be cast into the sea."

I'm a Christian and I agree with you 100%.

This isn't about forgiveness. Do we support the candidacy of a man who (allegedly) made a lifetime habit of pursuing underage girls while acting like he's the sex police for everyone else?

What Clinton did was really vile, not because sex is wrong but because it's a loser move to use the power of your office to get someone to be in awe of you and have a sexual relationship with you - and then to throw that person away like a used tissue.

What RM has done is both illegal (in many cases) and wrong - wrong for the same reasons but worse - you don't use your age and professional position to shut up the underage girls you chase after.

Loser move. He's an admitted loser. If you knew a 20-year old guy chasing 14-year-olds like this and telling them "no one will believe you, because I'm the big man on campus," you'd know he was doing wrong and acting like a total loser.

How much worse that he was that much older!

 

[JackRT]

The key point here is "just when does human tissue become a human person?"

"The law does not provide that the act of abortion pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation..."--St Augustine

"The intellective soul i.e., true person is created by God at the completion of man's coming into being." -- St Thomas Aquinas

"Many modern philosophers and theologians return to St. Thomas' view."-- Fr Joseph F. Donceel, S.J.

"To admit that the human fetus receives the intellectual soul from the moment of its conception, when matter is in no way ready for it, sounds to me like a philosophical absurdity. It is as absurd as to call a fertilized ovum a baby." --Jacques Maritain

"Many people believe that the Roman Catholic Church's opposition to abortion stems from its conviction that a new human person exists from the first moment of conception...It is clear that this is not now, or has ever been, official church teaching on the matter."--James T. McCartney

"In the rabbinic tradition...abortion remains a non-capital crime at worst."--Rabbi David Feldman


The Scriptures are silent in defining when one becomes a person.

 

[tulc]

I'm sure you'd like to avoid it, given what you have in common with them.


Nor was killing Jews in Nazi Germany, but it was still murder.
Nor was killing black people in the Confederate States before the civil war, but it was still murder.

As I said, your claim is incoherent.

Wow...I'd say you shouldn't have an abortion if you feel that strongly about it.
tulc(thinks that simplifies the problem right there)

 

[majj27]

The key point here is "just when does human tissue become a human person?"

"The law does not provide that the act of abortion pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation..."--St Augustine

"The intellective soul i.e., true person is created by God at the completion of man's coming into being." -- St Thomas Aquinas

"Many modern philosophers and theologians return to St. Thomas' view."-- Fr Joseph F. Donceel, S.J.

"To admit that the human fetus receives the intellectual soul from the moment of its conception, when matter is in no way ready for it, sounds to me like a philosophical absurdity. It is as absurd as to call a fertilized ovum a baby." --Jacques Maritain

"Many people believe that the Roman Catholic Church's opposition to abortion stems from its conviction that a new human person exists from the first moment of conception...It is clear that this is not now, or has ever been, official church teaching on the matter."--James T. McCartney

"In the rabbinic tradition...abortion remains a non-capital crime at worst."--Rabbi David Feldman


The Scriptures are silent in defining when one becomes a person.

I did a bit of checking in the few minutes I had today, and the closest I could find directly relating to this was in Exodus, where a man who caused a miscarriage was judged not as having killed someone, but as having damaged property (technical the women's husband's property).

Admittedly, I was rushed, so I may well have missed something.

 

[JackRT]

I did a bit of checking in the few minutes I had today, and the closest I could find directly relating to this was in Exodus, where a man who caused a miscarriage was judged not as having killed someone, but as having damaged property (technical the women's husband's property).

Admittedly, I was rushed, so I may well have missed something.

You didn't miss anything:

Exodus 21: 22 If men quarrel, and one strike a woman with child, and she miscarry indeed, but live herself: he shall be answerable for so much damage as the woman's husband shall require, and as arbiters shall award. 23 But if her death ensue thereupon, he shall render life for life. 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

If this passage be read in it's complete historical context, what we learn is that in the case of an accidentally induced abortion (the fetus is dead) then the father has a right to financial compensation for future loss of income. However if the mother is killed, it becomes a far more serious offense. The death of the fetus is clearly not regarded as seriously as the mother's death.

 

[zachly]

Trump: Vote For an Alleged Sexual Predator Because He’s Tough On Crime
Roy Moore was twentyish when those stories occurred. Haven’t you ever done anything wild and stupid when you were a youth? That was over 30 years ago!!! He didn’t commit a crime otherwise he could never have become a lawyer. The political left had to dig deep to find this information, b/c they want Jeff Session's (R-AL) seat to be filled by a democrat and thereby create a Senate majority to overrule any of Trump’s future legislation. This is a smear campaign pure and simple.

 

[majj27]

Last I checked, 32-year olds aren't usually considered teenagers.

 

[chilehed]

The key point here is "just when does human tissue become a human person?”

You seem intent on avoiding the real point: if human beings have no unalienable human rights from the moment of conception, they have no such rights at all, ever.

"The law does not provide that the act of abortion pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation..."--St Augustine

"The intellective soul i.e., true person is created by God at the completion of man's coming into being." -- St Thomas Aquinas

etc, etc…

You’re not doing yourself any favors here, cherry picking quotes out of context.

1,600 years ago Augustine didn't know that an unborn baby even existed before quickening, much less that it was capable of sensation, and it’s clear from his writings that if he knew what we know today he’d have had no doubt that unborn human beings are living souls.

St. Thomas plainly says, in your own quote, that human beings are true persons form the moment of conception.

The quote from McCartney is both irrelevant and deceptive. The Church has always very clearly and definitively taught that it is murder to intentionally kill an innocent human being, and it is a fact that the unborn child is an innocent human being.

The quotes of Maritain and Feldman merely parrot your own position, they have interesting personal opinions but their conclusion (that abortion is licit) is unsupportable.

The Scriptures are silent in defining when one becomes a person.

So what? There are many truths that Scripture doesn’t address; the purpose of Scripture is not to be a source of all philosophical and scientific truths. If you really don’t believe anything that’s not in Scripture, then you don’t believe much.

Wow...I'd say you shouldn't have an abortion if you feel that strongly about it…

That’s exactly what the American slaveowners said: “If you think it’s wrong to own slaves and kill them if you wish, then don’t do it.”

A Nazi may as well have said ”Wow, I’d say you shouldn’t gas 6 million Jews if you think that strongly about it”.

All human beings have human rights. Unborn children are innocent human beings. Abortion is murder. Someday you'll be ashamed that you ever thought otherwise.

I'm done here.

 

[tulc]

(snip)
That’s exactly what the American slaveowners said: “If you think it’s wrong to own slaves and kill them if you wish, then don’t do it.”

A Nazi may as well have said ”Wow, I’d say you shouldn’t gas 6 million Jews if you think that strongly about it”.

All human beings have human rights. Unborn children are innocent human beings. Abortion is murder. Someday you'll be ashamed that you ever thought otherwise.

You have no idea what I think.

I'm done here.

tulc(hopes you had a good Thanksgiving)

 

[tulc]

Roy Moore was twentyish when those stories occurred. Haven’t you ever done anything wild and stupid when you were a youth? That was over 30 years ago!!! He didn’t commit a crime otherwise he could never have become a lawyer. The political left had to dig deep to find this information, b/c they want Jeff Session's (R-AL) seat to be filled by a democrat and thereby create a Senate majority to overrule any of Trump’s future legislation. This is a smear campaign pure and simple.

Actually he was 34 when all "those stories occurred", and "those stories" were sexually assaulting a 16 year old and "dating" a 14 year old among other things.
tulc("Roy Moore was twentyish" seriously?)

 

[archer75]

ANYONE who defends a serial pedophile over a "democrat" is mentally ill. You show you don't care about children either. Given that most "pro-life" types are also in favor of cutting any and all safety nets to assure the child they want born has the bare minimum necessities in life show their utter immorality.

The patriarchy and misogyny is alive and well in the GOP. It's disgusting, unbiblical and un-Christian. Remember "there are those who say to me Lord, Lord..."

I find it disgusting...truth is, it gives Christianity a massive black eye. It gives a HORRIBLE witness. How can you tell someone of the love and goodness of Christ and then turn around and defend these people?

That is a perfect way to put it. Gives Christianity a black eye.

And this isn't a time to say "well, everyone's a sinner". That's true, but not everyone is a sinner with massive political and financial strength that they use for purely evil ends in the name of Christ.

 

[Christie insb]

And even if he did do it, his opponent supports the murder of babies, which is much, much worse.

I am not so sure about that.

 

[archer75]

So, I guess my question then would be "why can't the people who don't support murdering babies put up a candidate who is not a child molester and all-around creep?"

 

[badatusernames]

.

 

[GingerBeer]

And this from the people who insisted it was only about sex and therefore private and let him get on with doing the job for the American people. What a joke.

The most important comment made today was when Trump said we do not need a liberal in that Senate seat, because he is correct.

Why does the US senate not need a "liberal" in it?

 

[Sistrin]

Why does the US senate not need a "liberal" in it?

The short answer is liberalism kills. Whenever liberal/progressive policy is enacted the death toll always goes up.

In addition modern Liberalism is permeated and defined by nothing more than and little less than Communists, Socialists and Dictators. Trump's election has clearly exposed that truth for all who have eyes to see. This truth can be ascertained by simply listening to anything Chuck Schumer or Elizabeth Warren have to say; but more than listen to what they say watch how they say it.

For one more reason at its most basic level liberalism is anti-God. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to state liberalism is anti-Christian, for liberals do worship a god, the god known of as The State. Think about it, why do you believe on election night last year millions of people were actually broken down in tears, crying and wailing over the fact Clinton had lost the election? Why one year later were these same people out screaming at the sky? The answer isn't as simple as their side losing the Presidential election, the answer is their god had been cast down. This truth also accounts for the immediate and continual effort by the American left to overturn the results of the legal and constitutional election of Donald Trump, because one liberals care nothing of the Constitution or the legalities enforced therein and two they are hellbent to avenge their god. A legal election, the Constitution, Democracy, all of that can be damned.

Then you have the absolute moral decrepitude inherent in liberalism and defined by the Democrat Party throughout history. Remember, if every accusation leveled against Roy Moore is true, the actions those accusations represent all occurred when Moore was a proud Democrat, a proud member of the Democrat party.

For these and at least fifty other reasons I could give, Trump is correct, we don't need another liberal in the Senate.