Trump back in court...again

Hans Blaster

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He definitely does not word things well. But did she lie? We don't know. She can't remember the incident,
She is quite clear about the details of the attack itself. What she was wearing, where it took place (store, floor, section), what he did in fairly graphic detail.
the date,
she knows what time of year (spring I think) and initially one of two consecutive years long ago.
anything. But she is sure it happened in a public store.
In an isolated part of that store in an unbusy time of day/year.

It is far from "not anything".
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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She is quite clear about the details of the attack itself. What she was wearing, where it took place (store, floor, section), what he did in fairly graphic detail.

she knows what time of year (spring I think) and initially one of two consecutive years long ago.

In an isolated part of that store in an unbusy time of day/year.

It is far from "not anything".
Just not when, exactly where....anything. And who waits for 30 years to bring forth an accusation, conveniently right during a political campaign, of which she cannot remember details.

We know who.

We also know that "believe all women" only applies to those who accuse conservatives or Republicans. How do we know? No one "believed" the accusers of Biden, Clinton, or Cuomo.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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The jury was convinced it happened. They found Trump guilty of sexual assault and defamation.

-- A2SG, and they actually heard the evidence from both sides....
No, he was not found guilty. Guilty or not-guilty applies in a criminal trial. There wasn't enough evidence to charge him, so they gambled with the lower standard of a civil trial, preponderance of the evidence. He was found "liable" not guilty.
 
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rambot

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Just not when, exactly where....anything. And who waits for 30 years to bring forth an accusation, conveniently right during a political campaign, of which she cannot remember details.

We know who.

We also know that "believe all women" only applies to those who accuse conservatives or Republicans. How do we know? No one "believed" the accusers of Biden, Clinton, or Cuomo.
Who didn't believe Clinton? Nonsense.
Who didn't believe Cuomo?
I do think some gave Biden the benefit of the doubt though.
 
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Hank77

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No, he was not found guilty. Guilty or not-guilty applies in a criminal trial. There wasn't enough evidence to charge him, so they gambled with the lower standard of a civil trial, preponderance of the evidence. He was found "liable" not guilty.
How could he be found 'liable' if the jury didn't think he was guilty of what he was accused of?
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Who didn't believe Clinton? Nonsense.
Who didn't believe Cuomo?
I do think some gave Biden the benefit of the doubt though.
Heh. Oh there were a lot of them for Clinton, and a lot for Cuomo too. Either you are very young or were just not paying attention.

Here's a list for Clinton, and just one entry:
Gennifer Flowers


Flowers came forward during the 1992 presidential campaign and said she had been Clinton’s mistress for over a decade. Immediately after the allegations surfaced, Clinton denied having a relationship with Flowers in an interview on 60 Minutes with Hillary sitting beside him. In 1998, Clinton admitted to having a sexual relationship with Flowers, but he stated it only occurred once in 1977.


Cuomo:


"Tuesday’s devastating report from state Attorney General Tish James detailed instances of sexual harassment and mistreatment of 11 women by Gov. Andrew Cuomo.


Some of those 11 women are named in the report — others feared retaliation or other reprisals for publicly coming forward — and nine of them are current or former state employees."

 
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rambot

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Heh. Oh there were a lot of them for Clinton, and a lot for Cuomo too. Either you are very young or were just not paying attention.
47...so on the young side....but most folks I know put up no argument over clinton.
OH! I thought you'd have been referring to Lewinsky.

And I was here for Cuomo. I saw the left be pretty much ambivalent to it.

Here's a list for Clinton, and just one entry:
Gennifer Flowers


Flowers came forward during the 1992 presidential campaign and said she had been Clinton’s mistress for over a decade. Immediately after the allegations surfaced, Clinton denied having a relationship with Flowers in an interview on 60 Minutes with Hillary sitting beside him. In 1998, Clinton admitted to having a sexual relationship with Flowers, but he stated it only occurred once in 1977.

To be fair though, you were talking about how the left reacted to these reports. I know they exist. I know what they were reported to have done. As I said, not many people said much in Cuomo's defense as I recall. But please, feel free to bring up a thread here on CF to prove your point!
Cuomo:

"Tuesday’s devastating report from state Attorney General Tish James detailed instances of sexual harassment and mistreatment of 11 women by Gov. Andrew Cuomo.
Some of those 11 women are named in the report — others feared retaliation or other reprisals for publicly coming forward — and nine of them are current or former state employees."



Come to think of it, I'm actually a bit confused:

Do you think it is BETTER to believe the victim or it is better to NOT believe the victim?
 
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Arcangl86

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How could he be found 'liable' if the jury didn't think he was guilty of what he was accused of?
Because civil liability and criminal guilt are legally different things, even if I think we tend to be sloppy with the way we use them vernacularly.
 
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Hank77

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Because civil liability and criminal guilt are legally different things, even if I think we tend to be sloppy with the way we use them vernacularly.
The only difference is that one term is used in civil cases and the other in criminal cases.

The term liable generally means that a court has determined an individual, company or some other entity caused, and is responsible for, another person's injury. When a defendant is found liable, he or she is generally obligated to compensate the injured party for their damages. The term "liable" is often confused with “guilty." However, the term "liable" is used in civil cases and the term "guilty" is only used in criminal cases.

So the jury believed Trump was guilty of sexually assaulting Ms. Carroll and therefore liable (responsible) for the harm he inflicted on her and must compensate her monetarily.

 
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A2SG

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No, he was not found guilty. Guilty or not-guilty applies in a criminal trial. There wasn't enough evidence to charge him, so they gambled with the lower standard of a civil trial, preponderance of the evidence. He was found "liable" not guilty.
Okay. Differences in terminology aside, what's your point?

Did he do it, or didn't he?

-- A2SG, the jury was convinced, by a preponderance of the evidence, that he did....
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Okay. Differences in terminology aside, what's your point?

Did he do it, or didn't he?

-- A2SG, the jury was convinced, by a preponderance of the evidence, that he did....
It's not "differences in terminology". It is a much lower standard than a criminal trial. A civil trial is not a criminal trial, and has a much lower standard of evidence. Preponderance just means, "yeah, maybe...it is certainly possible. Could have happened based on what we were told, so yeah, more likely than not" Preponderance of the evidence is akin to - as I heard one attorney say, getting the ball just past the 50 yard line, vs. the touchdown required for "beyond a reasonable doubt".
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Trump has been found liable for rape... why can't we move on as a country? This guy has no business in politics.
Never happened. Rape is a criminal charge. He was never criminally charged.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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47...so on the young side....but most folks I know put up no argument over clinton.
OH! I thought you'd have been referring to Lewinsky.

And I was here for Cuomo. I saw the left be pretty much ambivalent to it.


To be fair though, you were talking about how the left reacted to these reports. I know they exist. I know what they were reported to have done. As I said, not many people said much in Cuomo's defense as I recall. But please, feel free to bring up a thread here on CF to prove your point!



Come to think of it, I'm actually a bit confused:

Do you think it is BETTER to believe the victim or it is better to NOT believe the victim?
There was DEAD SILENCE by the left to all of the multiple accusations against Cuomo. I was paying attention.

I think there needs to be one standard. That is my point. Do we "believe all women" or not? Or do we just believe woman who accuse Trump (and other disfavored parties) but not popular Democrats? That nonsense needs to stop. We cannot have one lower standard for the right/conservatives/Republicans to be attacked, and a very high bar for the left/liberals/Democrats to even be mentioned, which is the current stance, and has been for years.

Cuomo: CNN, ABC and CBS avoid airing harassment claims against Gov Cuomo
 
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FireDragon76

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Never happened. Rape is a criminal charge. He was never criminally charged.

Rape is sex with a person against their will. Trump sexually abused Ms. Carrol, and its meaningless legalism and obfuscation to suggest otherwise. Sexual abuse is despicable and sexual abusers are despicable.
 
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iluvatar5150

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There was DEAD SILENCE by the left to all of the multiple accusations against Cuomo.

Dead silence? You mean except for the NY AG, both NY senators, Nancy Pelosi, most of the NY congressional delegation, and President Biden?


I was paying attention.

You obviously weren't.


I think there needs to be one standard. That is my point. Do we "believe all women" or not? Or do we just believe woman who accuse Trump (and other disfavored parties) but not popular Democrats? That nonsense needs to stop. We cannot have one lower standard for the right/conservatives/Republicans to be attacked, and a very high bar for the left/liberals/Democrats to even be mentioned, which is the current stance, and has been for years.

Cuomo: CNN, ABC and CBS avoid airing harassment claims against Gov Cuomo
Many of the politicians I cited earlier called for him to resign by March 2021 (your article is dated Feb 25), while some waited until after the AG's report dropped in August. Other Dems have been pushed to resign for similar misdeeds or, in the case of Al Franken, far less.

That's an objectively higher standard than what's been on display in the Republican party the last several years where investigations have sought to have been squashed (e.g. Kavanaugh), misdeeds outright excused (e.g. Trump's Ukraine quid pro quo), and a fraudster allowed to retain a seat in Congress for a year (Santos).
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Dead silence? You mean except for the NY AG, both NY senators, Nancy Pelosi, most of the NY congressional delegation, and President Biden?




You obviously weren't.



Many of the politicians I cited earlier called for him to resign by March 2021 (your article is dated Feb 25), while some waited until after the AG's report dropped in August. Other Dems have been pushed to resign for similar misdeeds or, in the case of Al Franken, far less.

That's an objectively higher standard than what's been on display in the Republican party the last several years where investigations have sought to have been squashed (e.g. Kavanaugh), misdeeds outright excused (e.g. Trump's Ukraine quid pro quo), and a fraudster allowed to retain a seat in Congress for a year (Santos).
Check your dates. Not one outlet would even discuss the Cuomo allegations when they occurred. Dead silence on all the complicit outlets. Only nearly a year later when the inevitable was coming out did the usual suspects pretend that it mattered to them.

And stop cherry picking tiny snippets of my post out of context.

Again, since you obviously did not look at the source I cited...Note that these same outlets RAN with other allegations that favors the Biden narrative

Media ran with false narratives the first second they were reported on: Covenant Catholic Kids, Jussie Smollett, Russia hoax, Gretchen Whitmer kiddnapping plot, Hunter Biden's laptop, Steele dossier...one could go on awhile.

But dead silence on this one for most of a year.


 
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A2SG

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It's not "differences in terminology". It is a much lower standard than a criminal trial. A civil trial is not a criminal trial, and has a much lower standard of evidence. Preponderance just means, "yeah, maybe...it is certainly possible. Could have happened based on what we were told, so yeah, more likely than not" Preponderance of the evidence is akin to - as I heard one attorney say, getting the ball just past the 50 yard line, vs. the touchdown required for "beyond a reasonable doubt".
Your point being...?

Did Trump do it, or didn't he?

I suppose it could be debatable on the sexual assault, none of us were there (though the jury felt the evidence was strong enough for them to believe he did it), but it's abundantly clear Trump defamed her. He's still doing it, in fact, even as a new jury is deciding how much to award her in damages.

Still...either way, I'm not sure what your point is.

-- A2SG, are you claiming he didn't do it....even though Trump himself has admitted he's capable of doing it....
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Rape is sex with a person against their will. Trump sexually abused Ms. Carrol, and its meaningless legalism and obfuscation to suggest otherwise. Sexual abuse is despicable and sexual abusers are despicable.
Again, Rape is a criminal charge and he was never charged with rape. He was accused at the much lower standard of a civil trial, and found "liable" by a preponderance of the evidence, not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, as a criminal trial would establish. 51% likely.

No argument that sexual abuse and rape is despicable. It's just unfortunate that there are two standards of justice. Nothing happened to Cuomo at all, despite sexual abuse claims of 11 women. Nothing happened to Epstein when he was around.

Too bad the Biden Administration has done nothing about the 85,000 missing kids from the border (likely trafficked) and all the women trafficked by the cartels, having entirely abdicated the border Constitutional responsibility until 4 years in - now that an election is looming.

Over 85,000 unaccompanied minors lost, border report shows

 
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