Trinity is wrong.

[Der Alte]

Despite whatever evidence you may have provided, the texts disagree with you... Almah is the correct word in the Hebrew texts. The Greek translation in the XLL or LXX or CDD... was that intentional???? ... is parthenos, which means a chaste woman... the equivalent of the Hebrew word Bethulah, which Isaiah used several times in his book, but not in chapter 7.

I'm still watining for you to provide any evidence whatsoever in support of anything you say. All I have seen is "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh Huh!"

It doesn't pay to use Strong as a definer of Hebrew words since his New Testament bias is evident in all of his translations. HE HAS to define Almah as virgin because Matthew did. The Hebrews who spoke Hebrew understood their word to be the feminine form of Elem... which means a young lad of the age of puberty. It has no sexual experience connected with it at all. EVER. Period. Only since since the Gospels were written did it have that "virgin" meaning added to it.
Please do try and be more accurate, honest and reasonable.

I did NOT quote from Strong's I quoted from BDB, Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, perhaps you should take your own advice and start reading some credible sources on this instead of regaling us all with your unsupported assumptions/presuppositions. I also quoted from Keil and Delitszch Hebrew commentary. And here is the article from Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

1630 - 'lm

Hebrew Word: 'lm
Strong's Cross Reference: None
Definition: II. Assumed root of the following.

Derivative TWOT Number: 1630a
Derivative Transliteration: 'esem
Derivative Strong's Cross Reference: 5958
Derivative Definition: young man (1Sa_20:22; 1Sa_17:56).

Derivative TWOT Number: 1630b
Derivative Transliteration: 'alma
Derivative Strong's Cross Reference: 5959
Derivative Definition: young woman.

Derivative TWOT Number: 1630c
Derivative Transliteration: 'alumim
Derivative Strong's Cross Reference: 5934
Derivative Definition: youth (abstract).

There is no certain root for these words. They are not clearly related to 'alam 1. The suggestion in KB that they may be derived from an Arabic root meaning "to be vehemently affected with lust" is without foundation, particularly since Arabic literature comes from a time several centuries after the Biblical record, and the relationship, if any, is apt to be the reverse. According to KB 'alma means "marriageable girl, young worn an (until the birth of her first child)." The latter statement is purely conjectural, for there is no evidence on which to base it.

Since be tula is used many times in the OT as a specific word for "virgin, " it seems reasonable to consider that the feminine from of this word is not a technical word for a virgin but represents a young woman, one of whose characteristics is virginity. This is borne out by the fact that the LXX translates it as parthenos in two of its seven occurrences, and that its use in Isa_7:14 was quoted to Joseph by the angel as a prediction of the virgin birth,

Some translators interpret Mat_1:22-23 as being simply a comment by Matthew, but it is more reasonable to consider that the argument that convinced Joseph was the fact, pointed out to him by the angel, that such an event had already been predicted by Isaiah. There is no instance where it can be proved that 'alma designates a young woman who is not a virgin. The fact of virginity is obvious in Gen_24:43 where 'alma is used of one who was being sought as a bride for Isaac. Also obvious is Exo_3:8. Son_6:8 refers to three types of women, two of whom are called queens and concubines. It could be only reasonable to understand the name of the third group, for which the plural of 'alma is used, as meaning "virgins." In Ugaritic the word is used in poetic parallel with the cognate of be tula. See refs. in UT 19: no. 1969.

Bibliography: Wilson, Robert Dick, "The Meaning of 'Alma (AV "Virgin") in Isaiah vii.14, " Princeton Theological Review, 24:308-16. Feinberg, Charles Lee, "The Virgin Binh in the Old Testament and Isa_7:14, " BS 119:251-58. Gordon, C. H., "'Almah in Isa_7:14, " JBR 21:106. Knight, G. A. F., "The Virgin and the Old Testament, " RTR 12:1-13. Lattery, Cuthbert, "The Emmanuel Prophecy: Isaias 7:14, " CBQ 9:89-95., "The Term 'Almah in Isaias 7:14, " CBQ 9:89-95. Moriany, Frederick, "The Emmanuet Prophecies, " CBQ 19:226-33. Steinmueller, J. E., "Etymology and Biblical Usage of 'Almah, " CBQ 2:2843. A.A.M.​

 

[it'sme]

I see you are now admitting that most of your posts are just copy/pastes from your library CD, but you are still not properly identifying them. You need to identify the precise publication you are copying from e.g.

I never said that, I do get my information from many sources, and many different bibles. Do you get your information from the Catholic church? Or somewhere else? Or is all you say just your opinion, if that is so , there are many billions of opinions out there , what makes yours better than anyone else's.
Most of the Christian religions, rely on their own understanding, that why so many different religions. I personally want God's interpretation rather than opinions.
The bible says the knowledge that was sealed up, will become available in the time of the end. I want to know what the information is. Knowing makes you accountable, so most don't want to know. The churches certainly don't know. This knowledge explains a lot about our time, and fits with Gods original purpose.
Der Alter, I would like to ask you a question, are you part of the clergy, are you a priest or something like that? Do do not have to answer that, but I am just curious? I am just an average, nobody.

 

[it'sme]

I'm still watining for you to provide any evidence whatsoever in support of anything you say. All I have seen is "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh Huh!"
I quoted from BDB, Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew Lexicon,

One thing about the Jews is that they killed Jesus, Gods Son. They didn't know who he was. Also Jehovah also cast them off. They were teaching commands from men, not Gods word. So are you putting our trust in some group that God disproves of? The parallel is amazing.

 

[it'sme]

let's start with fallacy, first.

Show me where the satan is ever referred to as a real being. Chronicles? Job? Tempting the Son of God in the wilderness? In the first case he and God are the same being. In the second, they are in concert in testing Job, in the third, they apparently are having conversations... Jesus and satan... pure good and pure evil existing conversing and having a good ol' time together.

Do you really think Jesus had a serious conversation with satan and WAS really tempted? (If he wasn't tempted, as God, of course, wouldn't and couldn't be tempted by his own creation, then the story is meaningless. If he was tempted, then he obviously was not God's son, part if the Holy Trinity)

The serpent is not satan. Lucifer is not satan. The dragon is not satan. Hades is satan. however, PETER is satan. Hmmmm... the only "being" ever identified as satan is Peter.

John 8:42 Jesus said to them: “If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth. 43 Why is it YOU do not know what I am speaking? Because YOU cannot listen to my word. 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell the truth, YOU do not believe me. 46 Who of YOU convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it YOU do not believe me? 47 He that is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why YOU do not listen, because YOU are not from God.” NWT
These verses show you who sent Jesus and it was not Jesus idea, to come to the earth. But Jesus is also saying that he thinks the Devil is real.
Other scriptures like Satan taking Jesus aloft and offering him the kingdoms of the earth. Tells a few things. Jesus believed in a Devil, and that the Devil or Satan had ruler ship the the kingdoms of the earth. Because how could Satan offer them to Jesus if he was not in control of them.
This also bring up the idea that why would Satan offer God the kingdoms of the world. God is ultimately owner of all things. But Jesus did not have ruler ship of the kingdoms of the world , but Satan did.

 

[Der Alte]

I never said that, I do get my information from many sources, and many different bibles. Do you get your information from the Catholic church? Or somewhere else? Or is all you say just your opinion, if that is so , there are many billions of opinions out there , what makes yours better than anyone else's.

The difference is, in the posts I have indicated, virtually your entire post was a copy/paste from your library CD, which did not specifically address anything I posted. I address specific points and quote information from credible sources such as concordances, lexicons, dictionaries, etc. supporting my point.

Most of the Christian religions, rely on their own understanding, that why so many different religions. I personally want God's interpretation rather than opinions.

What makes you think that quoting long essays from the library CD is "God's interpretation?" Speaking of so many different religions, the one you belong to cannot be traced any earlier than 1848 when CT Russell started it.

The bible says the knowledge that was sealed up, will become available in the time of the end. I want to know what the information is. Knowing makes you accountable, so most don't want to know. The churches certainly don't know. This knowledge explains a lot about our time, and fits with Gods original purpose.

Here is that passage in context.

Dan 12:9-13
(9) And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
(10) Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
(11) And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
(12) Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
(13) But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.​

If you think that refers to the WTBS, where is Daniel? Verse 13 says that Daniel will, "stand in thy lot at the end of the days." Since there has never been anyone in the WTBS who claims to be or has been identified as "Daniel" that organization is not the one whom the information will be revealed to at the end of days.

Der Alter, I would like to ask you a question, are you part of the clergy, are you a priest or something like that? Do do not have to answer that, but I am just curious? I am just an average, nobody.

I am not a Catholic, and not a "priest" of any denomination. I am retired and serve in a church in a ministerial capacity but receive no compensation.

 

[it'sme]

I am not a Catholic, and not a "priest" of any denomination. I am retired and serve in a church in a ministerial capacity but receive no compensation.

OK my impression of you just shot up a little. Jesus didn't recieve any nor did the other servants of God. Neither do we. It is all volunteer , work and service. Just like Jesus said it should be.

 

[it'sme]

What makes you think that quoting long essays from the library CD is "God's interpretation?" Speaking of so many different religions, the one you belong to cannot be traced any earlier than 1848 when CT Russell started it.

It depends on how you look at it. There have always been people that have tried to follow God in spirit and truth. Even if it was on their own. The idea of having an organization at this time , is that this is the time the knowledge would become known, and also the preaching work, that has to be done before the end comes .
(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

So this has to be completed before the end comes. This is a huge job, and it takes organization to do it. It is also a warning work. Jehovah always warned people before he did something. Jesus started this preaching work, he told us how to do it, we are to reach people individually ( house to house)

Acts 20: 20 while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house NWT
Ask yourself, who else is doing this? We are in every country in the world.
The bible is about government, God's government. It is not about man's salvation ( though that is certainly apart of it. ) That is why it is about "this good news of the kingdom ".

 

[it'sme]

If you think that refers to the WTBS, where is Daniel? Verse 13 says that Daniel will, "stand in thy lot at the end of the days." Since there has never been anyone in the WTBS who claims to be or has been identified as "Daniel" that organization is not the one whom the information will be revealed to at the end of days.

I want to answer this but I have to go out. but i will soon as I can.

 

[Der Alte]

It depends on how you look at it. There have always been people that have tried to follow God in spirit and truth. Even if it was on their own. The idea of having an organization at this time , is that this is the time the knowledge would become known, and also the preaching work, that has to be done before the end comes.

I said nothing about "some people," I said an organized body of believers, by any name, who believed essentially as you do, between 90 AD and 1848. Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against the CHURCH that he built. And there have been denominations doing this work long before CT Russell, and the first JW knocked on a door.

Not only are we taking the gospel to the world but we are also doing the other things the Bible tells us to do. We plant churches, build hospitals, build homes, orphanages, schools, etc. and have been doing so for years before the WTBS. Have you actually preached, stood up in front of a congregation and proclaimed the gospel, the good news, in a foreign country? I have! In 2007 I was privileged to preach, in a divided country, in the church closest to the border with most repressive society in the world today. Preaching does NOT mean handing out literature.

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

So this has to be completed before the end comes. This is a huge job, and it takes organization to do it. It is also a warning work. Jehovah always warned people before he did something. Jesus started this preaching work, he told us how to do it, we are to reach people individually ( house to house)

See above. Bintheredunthatgotthetshirtdontfit!

Acts 20: 20 while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house NWT

Ask yourself, who else is doing this? We are in every country in the world.
The bible is about government, God's government. It is not about man's salvation ( though that is certainly apart of it. ) That is why it is about "this good news of the kingdom ".

As I said, we have been doing that long before CT Russell and the JW. Don't say we are in every country unless you personally have been there, as I have.

 

[it'sme]

Dan 12:9-13
(9) And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
(10) Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
(11) And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
(12) Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
(13) But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.​

If you think that refers to the WTBS, where is Daniel? Verse 13 says that Daniel will, "stand in thy lot at the end of the days." Since there has never been anyone in the WTBS who claims to be or has been identified as "Daniel" that organization is not the one whom the information will be revealed to at the end of days.

Before I answer this do you understand the significance of the 1,290 days.? Also what is your understanding of the time of the end?

 

[KCDAD]

Der Alter;53744571]I'm still watining for you to provide any evidence whatsoever in support of anything you say. All I have seen is "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh Huh!"



I did NOT quote from Strong's I quoted from BDB,

H5959 עלמה ‛almâh
BDB Definition:
1) virgin, young woman
1a) of marriageable age
1b) maid or newly married
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H5958
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1630b

true enough, you quoted from someone who quoted Strong.

 

[it'sme]

I said nothing about "some people," I said an organized body of believers, by any name, who believed essentially as you do, between 90 AD and 1848. Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against the CHURCH that he built. And there have been denominations doing this work long before CT Russell, and the first JW knocked on a door.

Not only are we taking the gospel to the world but we are also doing the other things the Bible tells us to do. We plant churches, build hospitals, build homes, orphanages, schools, etc. and have been doing so for years before the WTBS. Have you actually preached, stood up in front of a congregation and proclaimed the gospel, the good news, in a foreign country? I have! In 2007 I was privileged to preach, in a divided country, in the church closest to the border with most repressive society in the world today. Preaching does NOT mean handing out literature.

Who are they and what was the message, and how did they preach? Are they still doing this now? And what is the purpose of this , how is it supposed to end?

 

[Der Alte]

H5959 עלמה ‛almâh
BDB Definition:
1) virgin, young woman
1a) of marriageable age
1b) maid or newly married
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H5958
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1630b

true enough, you quoted from someone who quoted Strong.

Continuing to post meaningless commentary! You might try actually looking something up. BDB predates Strong's. What you highlighted was simply a cross reference, there is also a cross reference to TWOT. Keep posting, show us what else you do not know. Still waiting for you to post the first piece of evidence, vice your own unsupported assumptions/presuppositions.

 

[Der Alte]

Our purpose is to get people interested in the bible so they will talk, the literature , is helpful to people becasue on their own time they can do research. Our purpose it to study the bible with people. That's not so easy in a world like ours. Though it depends on where you live.
You can not say JW's don't try, or are not known for this preaching work.We also do it the way Jesus and his followers did. Jesus set the example for us.

Sorry I don't see any command "to get people interested in the bible so they will talk . . ."

Act 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Mar 1:21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.

Mar 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

Act 14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.

Act 17:1-2
(1) Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
(2) And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures​

,

 

[it'sme]

Sorry I don't see any command "to get people interested in the bible so they will talk . . ."

Act 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Mar 1:21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.

Mar 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

Act 14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.

Act 17:1-2
(1) Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
(2) And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures​

,

I guess this scripture is not in your bible.
Acts 20:20 (New International Version)

20You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house.

Thats is what Jesus set up the congregations to do. It also mentioned what is helpful. Some times this means, talking about things about some problems they are having with a understanding of the bible. Like what is death? What happens when you die. Why is the world the way it is. They don't get the accurate info from their Churches.
Do you understand what the average person thinks about God when religions tell them the are going to Hell to be tortured. The chruches have a lot to answer for. These teachings are not in the bible. People are going to be resurrected to the earth not heaven. Man was created for the earth. Adam and Eve were to live on the earth. When religions make up this stuff, what do you think people think of organized religions.

 

[it'sme]

As I said, we have been doing that long before CT Russell and the JW. Don't say we are in every country unless you personally have been there, as I have.

What countries, and what were to preaching there? What religion are you talking about?

 

[KCDAD]

Continuing to post meaningless commentary! You might try actually looking something up. BDB predates Strong's. What you highlighted was simply a cross reference, there is also a cross reference to TWOT. Keep posting, show us what else you do not know. Still waiting for you to post the first piece of evidence, vice your own unsupported assumptions/presuppositions.

BDB:

A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament with an appendix containing Biblical Aramaic
first edition 1906;

Strongs':

constructed under the direction of Dr. James Strong (1822–1894) and first published in 1890

 

[KCDAD]

Sorry I don't see any command "to get people interested in the bible so they will talk . . ."

It would be pretty weird of there was one...the first references to The Bible in Christian Era is around 223 CE. (Although the Tanakh was referred to as ta biblia by Hellenized Jews, such as those in Alexandria.)

 

[Der Alte]

Sorry I don't see any command "to get people interested in the bible so they will talk . . ."

It would be pretty weird of there was one...the first references to The Bible in Christian Era is around 223 CE. (Although the Tanakh was referred to as ta biblia by Hellenized Jews, such as those in Alexandria.)

Got a problem with the way it is worded, take it up with the guy who posted it, I only quoted what he said.

τότε βοήσῃ, καὶ ὁ θεὸς εἰσακούσεταί σου· ἔτι λαλοῦντός σου ἐρεῖ Ἰδοὺ πάρειμι. ἐὰν ἀφέλῃς ἀπὸ σοῦ σύνδεσμον καὶ χειροτονίαν καὶ ῥῆμα γογγυσμοῦ ​

Der Über Älter

 

[KCDAD]

Got a problem with the way it is worded, take it up with the guy who posted it, I only quoted what he said.

That's it? Yes, but you quoted it as if you were surprised that "I don't see any command 'to get the people interested in the bible'"...

When of course it would be VERY weird if there was such a command.