Trinity is wrong.

[hybrid]

However, the sun's rays can't be attributed to the Son,

as of the divine origin, the son is the perfect image and the effulgent brightness of the invisible god.

.. the Son is his own individual being. Capable of individual thought, but intentionally serving his Father and God. The Son isn't simply "how God works" ... he's his own individual being, an individual personal force, a fellow-servant of God, and our king/messiah/lord.

yup, as of his human origin.

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[Gregory Thompson]

Part 1.

1st Corinthians 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints.

Athanasian Creed, The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God.”

Against Praxeas 9 [A.D. 216], Keep always in mind the rule of faith which I profess and by which I bear witness that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are inseparable from each other.”

Against Praxeas 25 [A.D. 216], These three [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] are, one essence, not one person.”

Dogmatic Letter on the Trinity 8:2 [A.D. 381], To those who accuse us of a doctrine of three Gods, let it be stated that we confess one God, not in number but in nature.”

Question; Is the Father 33.3% [1/3] or is he 100% [3/3]? And is the Son 33.3% [1/3] or is he 100% [3/3]? And is the Holy Spirit 33.3% [1/3] or is he 100% [3/3]? We cannot have three parts who are all 100% since we come up to 300%.”

Fundamental Doctrines 1:1:6 [A.D. 225], God, therefore, is not to be thought of as being either a body or as existing in a body, but as a simple intellectual being, admitting within himself no addition of any kind.”

Treasury of the holy Trinity 11 [A.D. 424], The nature of the Godhead, which is simple and not composite, is never to be divided into two.”

Question; How do you have three in one?”

The Trinity doctrine is very confusing, for it states that three are one and one is three and yet one is not three and three is not one”.

To force a choice upon us between accepting Yehoshua HaMoshiach [ben David] as a lunatic, liar, or the Eternal God himself cleverly diverts us from the truth about his real identity.

The only form of oneness like this in the bible is the oneness between Adam and Eve . you may ask .. how can two then be one?

since they are made in the appearance and be-alikeness of God this characteristic carried over also .

reminds me hearing a rabbi say about his faith . until you're married you won't understand it .

 

[Glorthac]

what does it mean to say that i am a part of god?
is god a pie that can be divided into 6 billion pieces of humanity or
a machine that is composed of parts.

God is ONE. either he is in you and you are in him or not.
there is no such thing as "well im not really that good,
maybe only 1/4 of the father is in me. that is nonsense..

god is one and omnipresent. that means he and nothing but the whole he is present in every point of spacetime and and every cell of your body. if you ponder that a little bit, you would perhaps come to the conclusion that "god is one" is not a "quantitative" aspect of god as the naive monotheists believed but it is a "qualitative" attribute. which means he is the only one, the entirety. there is nothing outside of him.

We Trinitarians also believe God is not divided (Athanasian Creed Verse 4), but God is ONE.
As for "he and nothing but the whole he is present in every point of spacetime and every cell of your body", St. Augustine of Hippo wrote about this topic in his Confessions. He would say: "Then there is more God in the elephant than in the ant, because there is more cells in the elephant?"

 

[KCDAD]

what does it mean to say that i am a part of god?
is god a pie that can be divided into 6 billion pieces of humanity or
a machine that is composed of parts.

God is ONE. either he is in you and you are in him or not.
there is no such thing as "well im not really that good,
maybe only 1/4 of the father is in me. that is nonsense..

god is one and omnipresent. that means he and nothing but the whole he is present in every point of spacetime and and every cell of your body. if you ponder that a little bit, you would perhaps come to the conclusion that "god is one" is not a "quantitative" aspect of god as the naive monotheists believed but it is a "qualitative" attribute. which means he is the only one, the entirety. there is nothing outside of him.

A pie? No, God is infinite. God is everywhere and everything. So we are all a part of God.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

 

[Moriel]

Nice graphic... but does the graphic allow the Father and Son to be the "same being" though one directly tells us the other is greater than him? When one knows things the other does not? When one calls the other his "Father and God?" and when one can be completely dead while the other is not dead?

The bible says that Jesus sacrificed his very soul, that he forfeited even his spirit for us... not just letting "his body die so that his spirit immediately returned" ... but that his very spirit/soul died. If other "persons" were members of the same "being... do they have individual spirits/souls? Or, was the Father dead while Jesus was dead?

That's the problem... if they have individual bodies, wills, minds, spirits, and souls... in what way are they "one being" beyond an illustrative, theoretical sense (as a husband and wife are "one flesh," and as Jesus mentioned all are "one" in John 17)?

 

[hybrid]

We Trinitarians also believe God is not divided (Athanasian Creed Verse 4), but God is ONE.
As for "he and nothing but the whole he is present in every point of spacetime and every cell of your body", St. Augustine of Hippo wrote about this topic in his Confessions. He would say: "Then there is more God in the elephant than in the ant, because there is more cells in the elephant?"

god is infinite. what does it matter if an ant has few infinities and an elepant has millions of infinities? even when add up, they all end up possessing the same amount of infinity.

 

[hybrid]

A pie? No, God is infinite. God is everywhere and everything. So we are all a part of God.

but this is exactly what i am trying to point out to you.
your belief that you are a part of god that you have concluded from the fact that god is infinite and that god is everything is inconsistent and irrational.

because you cannot rationally justified that infinity can have parts called you. how can an infinity have parts? can you grab a handful of infinity and say here is a part of infinity.? this is me. it has no basis in reality,except as an arbitrary belief.


.

 

[hybrid]

Nice graphic... but does the graphic allow the Father and Son to be the "same being" though one directly tells us the other is greater than him? When one knows things the other does not? When one calls the other his "Father and God?" and when one can be completely dead while the other is not dead?

The bible says that Jesus sacrificed his very soul, that he forfeited even his spirit for us... not just letting "his body die so that his spirit immediately returned" ... but that his very spirit/soul died. If other "persons" were members of the same "being... do they have individual spirits/souls? Or, was the Father dead while Jesus was dead?

That's the problem... if they have individual bodies, wills, minds, spirits, and souls... in what way are they "one being" beyond an illustrative, theoretical sense (as a husband and wife are "one flesh," and as Jesus mentioned all are "one" in John 17)?

spirit is the substance of the soul. i.e. what soul is made of.
the will is an aspect of the spirit.
the soul is being. the fact or state of existing.
it is the sense or feeling of "I AM" present to all of us.
we know we exist. it is self verifiable and self evident.
the bodymind is the person. the person is the distinct expression of the soul mostly based on accumulated memories, conditions and situations we found ourselves in life.

individualizing things like spirit, will, soul is a misconception. it is an usurpation of the ego person when he say i have a will of my own. there is only one will. when the person claimed ownership to this will it becomes a belief that the person possess a wn individual will independent to that of god's. for example, is the hypostasis of the I AM in me is the same as yours or different? what i mean is the underlying reality that make this "i am" possible is common to us or not? or is what different are the "ideas" we attached to the I Am? e.g. i am white, you are black, i am engineer, you are a teacher. ( you are as the I AM version of you from my perspective) .

the perceived problems how same being can be three persons is because the word person usage today is different from the one employed during the nicene era, the original word is hypostases. meaning that which stands under. it is a philosophical technical term used in the nicene creed when they are forced to explain exactly questions like these during those times..

the personalities that arise from the common underlying reality ( hypostases) is best understood as role manifested by the same "being/spirit. the one common substance of the three. these roles are further can be understood within a larger context of a salvation scheme called god's divine economy. this is a purely human affair because for some reason, humans are the only creatures that seems to be in need of salvation, primarily because we don't understand the workings of god.

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[2ducklow]

Kinda like this one? Hey it's a pretty triangle so it must be true.

 

[KCDAD]

How neatly you fit the Creator of the universe into a 2 dimensional drawing.

Sort of like Johnny Quest or Fred Flintstone. Where is that infinite part?

 

[KCDAD]

but this is exactly what i am trying to point out to you.
your belief that you are a part of god that you have concluded from the fact that god is infinite and that god is everything is inconsistent and irrational.

because you cannot rationally justified that infinity can have parts called you. how can an infinity have parts? can you grab a handful of infinity and say here is a part of infinity.? this is me. it has no basis in reality,except as an arbitrary belief.


.

Of course you can. I can grab a handful of water from the ocean and say I have a part of the ocean in my hand... and not diminish the ocean one bit. Or I can grab a single grain of sand from the beach and claim to hold a part of the infinity of space in my hand. The part is not infinite... that's a "duh".
I am that grain of sand to God's universe.

Numbers (1,2,3,4 etc) are parts of the universe of infinite numbers...

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Kinda like this one? Hey it's a pretty triangle so it must be true.

if i were to find the scriptural references for the illustration would that make any difference? its an old diagram .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

How neatly you fit the Creator of the universe into a 2 dimensional drawing.

Sort of like Johnny Quest or Fred Flintstone. Where is that infinite part?

Oh i LOVE questions like that!

infinity is not outside . but inside . the deeper you go the more there is!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

This infinity talk is fun though . kudos .

 

[hybrid]

Of course you can. I can grab a handful of water from the ocean and say I have a part of the ocean in my hand...and not diminish the ocean one bit.

wrong analogy, ocean has boundaries, measurable and its finite.

Or I can grab a single grain of sand from the beach and claim to hold a part of the infinity of space in my hand. The part is not infinite... that's a "duh".
I am that grain of sand to God's universe.

sands are discrete particles. the beach is a collection of this countable particles. so what you have in your hand is finite sands. that you got from the finite beach.

interestingly, you claim/say that the single sand in your hand is a part of the infinite space. to do so is to believe that sand is also made of infinite space in a different form. right.?

therefore to say that you are a grain of sand is simply a mis-identification, what you really are (or what you are made of) .... is infinite space (based on your analogy) . but of course to be an infinite space within the surrounding infinite space loses the meaning of separateness. when this true identity is recognized (that all is infinite space even the sands), you are said to be ONE with the universe.

Numbers (1,2,3,4 etc) are parts of the universe of infinite numbers...

nope. they are integers in a number set theory.
infinity is not a number,
it's a concept.


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[KCDAD]

nope. they are integers in a number set theory.
infinity is not a number,
it's a concept..

Why do you bother? I didn't say infinity was a number. I said numbers were a part of a universe of infinite numbers. An infinite universe of numbers... an infinite set...get the CONCEPT?

 

[Glorthac]

How neatly you fit the Creator of the universe into a 2 dimensional drawing.

Sort of like Johnny Quest or Fred Flintstone. Where is that infinite part?

I'd have to say its that "God" word in the middle.

 

[hybrid]

Why do you bother? I didn't say infinity was a number. I said numbers were a part of a universe of infinite numbers. An infinite universe of numbers... an infinite set...get the CONCEPT?

because imo, it doesn't fit with the analogy too. and numbers don't exist in the universe. they only exist in you head. gee wizz

 

[KCDAD]

because imo, it doesn't fit with the analogy too. and numbers don't exist in the universe. they only exist in you head. gee wizz

...and what does exist outside your head?