Trinity is wrong.

[2ducklow]

What is clear to you is irrelevant. Jesus entered the temple John 8:2 and the word Christ or Messiah is NEVER mentioned in the entire chapter.

christ told them non plainly.


(NKJV) John 10:24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."

(NKJV) John 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.

John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 5:37 And the Father that sent me, he hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form.

JJohn 8:18 I am he that beareth witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

Jesus answer to the Jews who requested of him that he tell them plainly if he was the Christ or not , was that the works he did bear witness that the Father has sent him and in other scripture we see that the works that appeared to be done by Jesus were done by his Father. that is how Jesus told them that he was the Christ. The Father sent the Christ into the world, and Jesus proof is the works that he did . he gave the same answer in john 8 and again in john 10, both times they would not believe Jesus, as Jesus said the would not. Jesus works bear witness that he is the christ. the jews didn't believe him in john 8 or John 10.

The Jews attempted to stone Jesus in the temple the second time, because according to them he was making himself God, 10:33.

and for blasphemy. 2 reasons, because Jesus said "I and my Father are one" they assumed he was claiming to be god, and the second reason was for claiming to be the Christ, which they called blasphemy.

(NKJV) John 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for (1st reason, namely claiming to be the Christ) blasphemy, and (2nd reason, a false understaanding of Jesus statement that he and the Father are one.) because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."

When was the illegal trial in the temple? And you know that the Jews were willing to break the law even in the temple how? Can you conceive of religious leaders who would openly break the law in their place of worship in front of witnesses?

No one stoned Jesus in the temple. But wasn't Jesus trial in the temple area? isn't that where the sanhedrin met? At any rate, it's irrelevant, for no one was stoned in the temple area, but certainly Jesus trial was illegal. Jews broke the law all the time.

There is no mention of blasphemy in John 10:24.

there is no mention of Jesus being god in john chapter 8 , yet you claim that's the meaning of John 8.58. john 10.33 lists blasphemy as the first reason they attempted to stone him the second time. that's only a few verses after the jews requested Jesus to tell them plainly if he was the christ and after Jesus told them the second time that the proof of who he was (the christ) was the works that he did which testified that the Father had sent him (the christ).

Yeah right! You would quote Osama Bin Laden if you thought it would support your argument. What I quoted was the only extant history of the early church that Jesus built on the rock and against which the gates of hell could not prevail.

Did Jesus promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against the history of the early church ? No.

Check any lexicon these same early leaders are cited in determining the meaning of words. See e.g. the entry for θεός/Theos from BAGD.

The church is made up of born again believers in Christ Jesus, they have allways been around. The church isn't an orginazation, like the catholic or baptist, or pentecostal church. The church are the called out ones who are believers in Jesus. the church is not the trinity doctrine, or the oneness doctrine, or any doctrine of the church. the church has never all believed the same thing, even when they tried to stamp out all non trinitarian beliefs, they never succeeded. there have always been those in the body of Christ who did not believe the trinity, even on pain of a horendous death. Like servetus.

2. Some writings in our lit. use the word θεός. w. ref. to Christ (without necessarily equating Christ with the Father), though the interpretation of some of the pass. is in debate. In Ro 9:5 the interpr. depends on the punctuation. If a period is placed before oJ w]n ktl., the doxology refers to God (so EAbbot, JBL 1, 1881, 81-154; 3, 1883, 90-112; RALipsius; HHoltzmann, Ntl. Theol. 2 II ’11, 99 f ; EGünther, StKr 73, ’00, 636-44; FCBurkitt, JTS 5, ’04, 451-5; Jülicher; PFeine, Theol. d. NTs 6 ’34, 176; OHoltzmann; Ltzm. ; AMBrouwer; RSV text).—If a comma is used in the same place, the reference is to Christ (so BWeiss; EBröse, NKZ 10, 1899, 645-57; ASchlatter; ThZahn; EKühl; PAlthaus; M-JLagrange; JSickenberger; RSV mg. S. also eijmiv I1.—Undecided: ThHaering.—The conjecture of the Socinian scholar JSchlichting [died 1661] w|n oJ =‘to whom belongs’ is revived by JWeiss, most recently in D. Urchristentum ’17, 363; WWrede, Pls ’05, 82; CStrömman, ZNW 8, ’07, 319 f ). In 2 Pt 1:1 ; 1J 5:20 the interpretation is open to question. On the other hand, q. certainly refers to Christ in the foll. NT pass. : J 1:1 b ( w. oJ qeov" 1: 1a, which refers to God the Father; on qeov" w. and without the article, acc. to whether it means God or the Logos, s. Phil o, Somn. 1, 22 9 f; JGGriffiths, ET 62, ’50 f , 314-16; BMMetzger, ET 63, ’51 f , 125 f ), 18b. oJ kuvriov" mou kai; oJ qeov" mou my Lord and my God! ( nom. w. art . =voc .; s. beg. of this entry.—On the resurrection as proof of divinity cf. Diog. L. 8, 41, who quotes Hermippus: Pythagoras returns from a journey to Hades and appears among his followers [ eijsevrcesqai eij" th;n ejkklhsivan ], and they consider him qei`ovn tina ) 20:28 (on the combination of kuvrio" and qeov" s. 3c below). Tit 2:13 ( mevga" q .). Hb 1:8 , 9 (in a quot. fr. Ps 44:7 , 8 ). S. TFGlasson, NTS 12, ’66, 270-72. Jd 5 P 72. But above all Ignatius calls Christ qeov" in many pass. : qeo;" jIhsou`" Cristov" ITr 7:1; Cristo;" qeov" ISm 10:1. oJ qeo;" hJmw`n IEph inscr .; 15:3; 18:2; IRo inscr. (twice); 3:3; IPol 8:3; to; pavqo" tou` qeou` mou IRo 6:3. ejn ai{mati qeou` IEph 1:1. ejn sarki; genovmeno" qeov" 7:2. qeo;" ajnqrwpivnw" fanerouvmeno" 19:3. qeo;" oJ ou{tw" uJma`" sofivsa" ISm 1:1.— Hdb. exc. 193 f ; MRackl, Die Christologie d. hl. Ign. v. Ant. ’14.—StLösch, Deitas Jesu u. antike Apotheose ’33.

A Greek-English Lexicon Gingrich & Danker
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that's like saying Jesus is God cause Billy Graham says he is.

 

[Der Alte]

christ told them non plainly.

None of the vss. you listed are relevant none mention Christ or Messiah

Jesus answer to the Jews who requested of him that he tell them plainly if he was the Christ or not , was that the works he did bear witness that the Father has sent him and in other scripture we see that the works that appeared to be done by Jesus were done by his Father. that is how Jesus told them that he was the Christ. The Father sent the Christ into the world, and Jesus proof is the works that he did . he gave the same answer in john 8 and again in john 10, both times they would not believe Jesus, as Jesus said the would not. Jesus works bear witness that he is the christ. the jews didn't believe him in john 8 or John 10.

Still no reference to Christ or Messiah.

and for blasphemy. 2 reasons, because Jesus said "I and my Father are one" they assumed he was claiming to be god, and the second reason was for claiming to be the Christ, which they called blasphemy.

If it was a mistake then John made the same one.

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.​

No one stoned Jesus in the temple. But wasn't Jesus trial in the temple area? isn't that where the sanhedrin met? At any rate, it's irrelevant, for no one was stoned in the temple area, but certainly Jesus trial was illegal. Jews broke the law all the time.

The Sanhedrin did not meet in the temple area. The Jews tried to stone Jesus twice in the temple.

there is no mention of Jesus being god in john chapter 8 , yet you claim that's the meaning of John 8.58. john 10.33 lists blasphemy as the first reason they attempted to stone him the second time. that's only a few verses after the jews requested Jesus to tell them plainly if he was the christ and after Jesus told them the second time that the proof of who he was (the christ) was the works that he did which testified that the Father had sent him (the christ).

What reason did the Jews give for trying to stone Jesus, John 10? It was not for claiming to be the Christ.

Did Jesus promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against the history of the early church ? No. The church is made up of born again believers in Christ Jesus, they have allways been around. The church isn't an orginazation, like the catholic or baptist, or pentecostal church. The church are the called out ones who are believers in Jesus. the church is not the trinity doctrine, or the oneness doctrine, or any doctrine of the church. the church has never all believed the same thing, even when they tried to stamp out all non trinitarian beliefs, they never succeeded. there have always been those in the body of Christ who did not believe the trinity, even on pain of a horendous death. Like servetus.

So were those called early church fathers such as Polycarp, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Justin, etc. leaders of the church or not. Or were there some other folks who represented the church?

that's like saying Jesus is God cause Billy Graham says he is.

You rejected the ECF as evidence, I showed that the highly renowned Greek lexicon cited the ECF for correct definitions of Greek words. Lexicographers did not make up definitions, they read the writiings of people who spoke the languages. Without people like the ECF we would not know anything about the Greek. Got any more silliness like Billy Graham?

 

[2ducklow]

christ told them non plainly.


(NKJV) John 10:24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."

None of the vss. you listed are relevant none mention Christ or Messiah

If it was a mistake then John made the same one.

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
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Jesus didn't break the sabbath, and Jesus didn't make himself equal with god, the Jews thought he did but he didn't. Jesus fulfilled the sabbath, he in no way brokethe sabbath. Plus even if Jesus did make himself equal with god, which he didn't, it would only prove he wasn't god. if I am equal to you Der Alter, it doesn't mean I am you.
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