To those who don't believe in eternal security...

[DingDing]

Nah, ... You're focusing again still on your own philosophies instead of the actual accurate analogy.
...

Sorry, but saved people ain't pickles in a jar.

 

[CodyFaith]

Even if all that were not so, even without all the Scriptural evidence you contradict with osas,
remember that people don't know if they are saved or not
when they are not saved
even if they think they are saved - no matter how sure they are!
No matter how many other people are duped also !
No matter how many other people tell them wrongly that they are saved !

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

I know I'm saved because I love my brother in Christ. I have passed from death unto life.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Explain this verse. And not only explain it, but explain it honestly:

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If you can't, no worries, it's really not possible to explain it any other way than an eternal security perspective. Because that's the truth.

How about this: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (Mark 3:39 KJV)

I would say that grieving the Holy Spirit is on the way to blaspheming Him. So it is a warning, and not a promise of eternal security

 

[South Bound]

I must be confused.

The first true thing you've said in this post

 

[South Bound]

@South Bound ,
Jesus' parable of the Unmerciful Servant is found in Matthew 18:21-35. Verse 35 is the most salient to this thread.

And it doesn't say what you claimed it said

 

[CodyFaith]

How about this: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (Mark 3:39 KJV)

I would say that grieving the Holy Spirit is on the way to blaspheming Him. So it is a warning, and not a promise of eternal security

Well the actual verse is about grieving the Holy Spirit which means not heeding to what the Spirit who dwells inside a believer is saying. But doctrine can be found inside this verse for eternal security.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Nope. What my question comes down to is, does a Christian still have free will such that he can reject God, or has that freedom been eliminated by being saved?

God is a gentleman. He will not impose His will upon another. I have been cooperating with God (I don't like the word "saved" because it implies that God just dips you into Him, so that the Just Judge can't see the sinner, just God.) for 39 years now, and there have been plenty of times when I doubted my place in heaven. If you have been a Christian for 39 years, and not, in the depths of your heart, doubted your place in heaven, then you must have gotten something "SPECIAL" when you began to live for Jesus that most people that I have known, including head pastors at some evangelical churches didn't get.

 

[South Bound]

So how do you jive your words with the words of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount? I would kind of have to go with Jesus on this, since He is both God and Judge (and you are rather something less).

Nothing in the Sermon on the Mount is inconsistent with anything I've said here

 

[Monk Brendan]

Likewise, this doesn't mean that the rest of the world has no choice, but that God knows before hand what we will choose and works within that choice to do His will that more might come.

But God knowing does not negate man's free will! All have a choice to believe God or not.

 

[BobRyan]

But God knowing does not negate man's free will! All have a choice to believe God or not.

And here is the proof of that.

Since God knows the future - absolutely it means that He knows not only what you will do and say - -He knew what CHRIST would do and say. Did Christ have free will? you bet! that means that free will was not negated in the least by the fact that God knows the future.

The most EXTREME form of LACK of free will is for someone to hand you a piece of paper with every word you are going to speak today - written out in advance. And no matter what happens you will in fact fulfill every detail of what is written on that page. That is how detailed God can see HIS OWN future as well as yours. He therefore is the LEAST enabled to have the experience of free will. And yet by definition HE has the MOST free will of anyone. And those of us who know absolutely nothing about the future have tghe greatest sense/experience of Free will

 

[Norbert L]

Explain this verse. And not only explain it, but explain it honestly:

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If you can't, no worries, it's really not possible to explain it any other way than an eternal security perspective. Because that's the truth.

Just as Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness, and all who looked upon the serpent were healed, so too that anyone who looks upon the Son of Man and believes are saved. (John 3:14-15)

Come join the family of God. You're wanted. So much.

 

[Norbert L]

Explain this verse. And not only explain it, but explain it honestly:

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If you can't, no worries, it's really not possible to explain it any other way than an eternal security perspective. Because that's the truth.

I believe a Christian needs to figure out -> How does anyone "grieve the holy Spirit of God"? Because when that is done (upon figuring it out) the warning is there is NO eternal security.

 

[DingDing]

Nothing in the Sermon on the Mount is inconsistent with anything I've said here

... Salvation is not a "path we take". ...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

<staff edit>

as in Scripture: "YHWH CREATED EVERYTHING SIMPLE,
but man came up with many devices (distractions/ sinful/ carnal/ etc) .... "

 

[Kenny'sID]

Just as Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness, and all who looked upon the serpent were healed, so too that anyone who looks upon the Son of Man and believes are saved.

And when they, by action or inaction, show they no longer believe, they are no longer saved.

More simply put, you slip, fall off the edge of a deadly high cliff and grab the hand of someone reaching out to save you, you are saved, you let go and you are not.

But unlike that scenario, you have a second or more chances to grab hold again, but not forever.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The first true thing you've said in this post

So you still believe that Romans 11 is directed to Jews? Reread verse 1.

 

[paul becke]

Not necessarily. " Faith without works is dead." What are your thoughts on James 2?

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
Philippians 2:12 NIV
http://bible.com/111/php.2.12.NIV

Yes, Jason. What the 'once saved, always saved' people can't or don't want to understand is that faith in this Christian context is more than mere credence : 'the devil believes and trembles.' It entails commitment ; and that means a persevering commitment. Moreover, it is presumption, a major, because seminal sin, presume that we will persevere, until the very end of our life.

Sure, we must have confidence, the confidence with which our mutual love between God and ourselves reassures us, and which we need, in order to be able us to face severe trials. The plain fact of the matter, it seems to me, at least, is that we all come to know the truth of the Christian faith, so that, really, belief doesn't come into it. It's a matter of having the courage to stick with Christ and his Providential plan for our own personal salvation. The Apostles knew for certain that Jesus was God. All that remained was for them to prove how much they loved him. The same goes for us, I'm inclined to believe.

When Peter heard the voice ask him, 'Quo vadis?' he could have refused to turn back to face his martyrdom, and, I would imagine, still be saved, but his love for Jesus was as great as his humility - despite the bad press he tends to get, emphasising his human weakness.

The matter of 'being saved', is beautifully addressed in this sermon to Pope Francis :

https://zenit.org/articles/father-cantalamessas-5th-lent-homily-2016/

 

[DingDing]

I believe a Christian needs to figure out -> How does anyone "grieve the holy Spirit of God"? Because when that is done (upon figuring it out) the warning is there is NO eternal security.

I would not agree with the statement that there is no eternal security. But if by your statement you meant that salvation can be forfeited by departing from faith, then I agree. But there is "eternal security" in the sense that those who abide (remain) in Christ will receive the eternal reward of eternal life. So there is security for those who remain in Christ; they will receive the promise.

 

[Sammy-San]

Explain this verse. And not only explain it, but explain it honestly:

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If you can't, no worries, it's really not possible to explain it any other way than an eternal security perspective. Because that's the truth.

Just as Moses lifted up the bronze serpent in the wilderness, and all who looked upon the serpent were healed, so too that anyone who looks upon the Son of Man and believes are saved. (John 3:14-15)

Come join the family of God. You're wanted. So much.

If a person knows God is real and deliberately sins and doesn't repent, they won't go to Heaven when they die.

 

[razzelflabben]

It means the jar of pickles is not sentient thinking being. in this case - not even a robot.

But we can be glad God does not call us a "Jar of pickles"

maybe not jars of pickles but scripture does call us pillars I Tim. 3:15; aroma's II Corinthians 2:14-16; light Ephesian 5:8; salt Matthew 5:13; building and field I Cor. 3:9; stones I Peter 2:5; temple I Corinthians 3:16-19; vessels II Tim. 2:21; branches John 15:5; and clay pots...so I am not really sure why you would object to the analogy unless it hit a little too close to home.