Tithing, A requirement?

[Goinheix]

So, in conclusion, I say that it is not mandatory from God but it is, in my humble opinion, something every Christian should want to do (I'm not referring to tithing but to giving in general).

First. It is your opinion. OK. I respect that. But it is my obligation to tell you that you are wrong.

At least you have understood that is not mandatory. The next step will be to understand that it is prohibited.

At this point, you know that those pastor teaching to tithe are teaching false doctrine, and that bthose tithing are not following the teaching of Jesus, and are not pleasing God neither.

A good start.

If you are ready to lisent, I will explain you how bad, very bad is tithing (or giving in a systematic maner) for your spiritual life.

 

[groktruth]

I looked up these verses and they have nothing to say about tithing. What are you trying to do?

Warn the deluded. Try Matt 5:19-20.

 

[groktruth]

Actually we are not aloud to tithe by own initiative. We do not have the option to tithe. Tithe is part of the Moses Law and we are specifically prohibited of observing any Moses Law, including tithing.

Not only is not compulsory, it is prohibited for christians.

Then why did Jesus tell His disciples that if they wanted to be great in the kingdom of God, they ought to keep, and teach others to keep, the least of the law and the prophets? A commandment he later told them to teach to all new converts? (Matt 5:19-20; Matt 28:20?)

But the main concern I have with what you say, is that you seem to be basing it on scripture, and not on prophetic hearing. Do you not know His voice? I hear Him telling me that attention to tithing is profitable, especially in praying for government leaders in dealing with the unsaved poor. They are poor because they are stealing from God, and ought to be told so. They might then get convicted, test God, learn to fear Him, and then choose salvation. But meditation on tithing for deluded is profitable to help them learn their true condition, to learn that they are deluded about their salvation.

I know that I am saved because I heard Jesus Himself tell me so this morning. Then faith came from my hearing, and I was able to receive His grace, for all the ways that I fall short of His glory, including in my giving. He said that he walked in the flesh, as God, and died to save me. Once, I struggled to be sure I was hearing Him, I wasn't sure I knew His voice. But, through mentoring and studying the rules and commandments for knowing what was true, by "receiving the love of the truth," He taught me what I needed to know to be assured it was Him talking to me.

No believer needs to tithe to be saved, but they must hear and know His voice.

 

[groktruth]

First. It is your opinion. OK. I respect that. But it is my obligation to tell you that you are wrong.

At least you have understood that is not mandatory. The next step will be to understand that it is prohibited.

At this point, you know that those pastor teaching to tithe are teaching false doctrine, and that bthose tithing are not following the teaching of Jesus, and are not pleasing God neither.

A good start.

If you are ready to lisent, I will explain you how bad, very bad is tithing (or giving in a systematic maner) for your spiritual life.

But I am beginning to grasp that, when you speak of tithing, you mean an official church doctrine. I agree completely that in that sense, it is prohibited to believers. Church doctrines are to be limited to what is specifically written for the church, and tithing is not included, is therefore excluded. Building church buildings, and holding bible studies or Sunday schools are also forbidden. Pastors who tell their followers to tithe as church policy are way out of line.

 

[addo]

First. It is your opinion. OK. I respect that. But it is my obligation to tell you that you are wrong.

At least you have understood that is not mandatory. The next step will be to understand that it is prohibited.

At this point, you know that those pastor teaching to tithe are teaching false doctrine, and that bthose tithing are not following the teaching of Jesus, and are not pleasing God neither.

A good start.

If you are ready to lisent, I will explain you how bad, very bad is tithing (or giving in a systematic maner) for your spiritual life.

Okay, this is interesting. If you wish, please explain it to me.

 

[Goinheix]

Okay, this is interesting. If you wish, please explain it to me.

Let say tha tithing is giving some money to the church y a systematic and regular basis. Probably 10%, or more. Perhaps compulsory or willingly. If willingly, as a result of feeling that responsability. Most commonly in connection to the OT Moses Law; or without any conection to the Bible

HOW BAD IS TITHING FOR YOU
You tithe every month. You really believe that you have to, that it is your responsability. You have faith that tithing is what you have to do. Otherwisw, if not by faith you are in sin from the beggining.

The point is that you make your mind to give (says 10%) out of your income every month. That is a law, a obligation you impose to you. Unfortunally, Paul have explain to us that we keep b raking every law; Moses Law, Human Law, or personal laws. Having a law is equal to failing to keep it.

Do you include in your tithe all your income? Before or after taxes? Does include tips, and all other monetary benefits? If you have lunch at the job, or free medical, rent free, transportation, or any benefit; do you calculate how much money that is?

If one month you have to pay a heavy bill; do you pospone the tithe and acumulate it for the next month?

There is too many ways to fail tiyhing as you are supposed to tithe. That is out of question. Paul stated that you will fail; eventualy or everytime; today, or next year.

When you fail tithing, and you will and allready did, you are in sin against your own faith. And that breaks you relationship with the Holy Spirit and get disconnected from God.

If you tithe every month, every month of your entire life you sin, because probably you are failing to tithe as your mind and faith says. Be honnest. Dont you feel that you shall give more than you are giving. You are sinning against your believes.

HOW BAS IS FOR YOU II
Almost all tityhing christians have ear and read Malachi. Almost all of them have lisent to a Pastor preaching on Malachi. If you tithe because Malachi, there is at least two problems.

Probably you are tithing because God will prosper you. And you call that blessing. If you are tithing in the expectative that God prosper you, you are not tithing joyfull but greedy.

If you tithe because Malachi, you are tithing because Moses. If you tithe because the old pact, you are stepping away from the new pact.


HOW BAD IS FOR YOUR PASTOR
Firstly, in Act 15, the Apostles and the Holy Spirit, stated that no load from the Moses Law shall be charge to the christians. playing with the Holy Spirit is not a joke. I diont recomment being at the edge of insulting the Holy Spirit. Any way, being desobedien to the Holy Spirit is not a good thing. And worst if you are supposed to be an spiritual leader.

If I were a Pastor; will never ever teach to tithe. And by no way I will teach tithing in base of Moses or malachy (wich is moses). Not only that. Because and want to stay in safe ground, I will never accept the tithe of one of my brothers. I will not accept it because it might mean for him that I aprove the tithe doctrine, wich the Holy Spirit have declare out of christians. And I will not accept tithe because I (the pastor) am a christian in identical level and status that all other. Me (pastor) am not a bridge between God and christians, but a slave of my brothers. (Hebrew is clear that the one recieving tithe is bigger that the one tithing him)

HOW BAD IS FOR YOUR PASTOR II
The second problem with a tithe pastor is how he yeach to tithe. I have witness the most terrible things. All pastors, when preapearing the speech, confront the problem of not having any text at all. The solution is search in a long list of verses that preevious pastor have lern to change the meaning in orther to make believe the christians that tithe is a christian doctrine.

A pastor tha lay everytime he teaches tithe; a pastor that recieve money every month product of his lay; deffinatly is not in a good spiritual shape, and the longer he keep doing it, the deepest he fell

HOW BAD IS FOR YOUR CHURCH
Besides how bad is for your pastor, and how bad is for you and your brothers (the church) there is some problems to the church as it.

How do you do the grat commandment? How do you spread the world? How do you bring the good news? The only way is with the Holy Spirit. Is the Holy Spirit wich convince people of sin. Is the Holy Spirit who give them faith. Is the Holy Spirit who is using you and gives you the neccessary words for each person in particular.

The problem starts when you plan the campains based on how much money can dedicate to that porpouse. You think that the susses of a gospel campain will be on the things you can pay: technology, media, bibles, what soever. You thrust in the money, the poer of the money. It is the same money poer that fuels all your personal life. I give money, God blees me with money. I do God job giving money (and not getting involved). The God job depend on how much money we have.

The same with any other work in the church. Probably you make charity, and make charity according to the money you (the church) have.

HOW BAD FOR YOUR CHURCH II
What I have witness is that "converting new people" is tied to the money they will give. The money that is invested in preaching the salvation need to return in orther to continue the preaching. That is human thinking that let the Holy Spirit aside.

One real life example (not necessary it happens in your church but something similar):
My Church is in Tres Cruces (in case some of you know Montevideo city). It is at 2 block from the international bus terminal. Buses come and go to all Uruguay and neighbour countries. I proposed the pastor to preach at the waiting room. There is a lot of people awaiting for our for his bus depparture; and after that, many ours in the bus to think and think. The answer was: "if some body is converted he will assit a church in his own town, and that is not any good for us.

Tres Cruces is also the center of many hospitals. The numbers of hospitals withing 1 Km is over a docen. Whithing few (3 or 4) blocks from the church are 4 big hospitals. What if we preach to those sick, specially to those with terminal situation. The answer is: "those terminal will die soon and will never asist our church, the other sick people will assist a church at his neighbourhood or town"

HOW BAD FOR CHRISTIANHOOD
because of the false tithing doctrine, many pastor were put at the adge of the oportunity to meke money, to make a busynes of the church. very easelly some pastor lerned that people actually is willing to give money, it is not hard, but people is really needing to give money. And people seack for securuty, for financial securuty. It is very easy to preach malachy and get money from people.

because we (not me but you) teach tithe as doctrine, making busines with the chruch is onle one little step further.

But other people needs the real message. some people really need the gospel and Jesus. Only that will never enetr a busynes church, and probably will never enter a church at all. and if they do, they will wlak away when see you tithing. not because they are tight to the money, because they think you are in busynes aswell.

 

[groktruth]

Go, Goinheix!

 

[Hismessenger]

The true church doesn't need money to operate and if you understand what the true church is, these comments about giving money to the building would cease in the face of the truth. The only thing the church needs to function is true believers who aren't afraid to suffer for the truth of God. Get real. The building isn't the church. It is a place of fellowship and if God has ordained it, it will survive. God never ordained them and that is why they keep being torn down in the face of His truth.

hismessenger

 

[groktruth]

The true church doesn't need money to operate and if you understand what the true church is, these comments about giving money to the building would cease in the face of the truth. The only thing the church needs to function is true believers who aren't afraid to suffer for the truth of God. Get real. The building isn't the church. It is a place of fellowship and if God has ordained it, it will survive. God never ordained them and that is why they keep being torn down in the face of His truth.

hismessenger

Now that's what I am talking about! But, remember, Jesus commanded us to not think He came to abolish the law and the prophets, but instead to keep and teach it, even the least ones. There is a mystery to that word "keep," though. For sure, it does not mean make a doctrine out of it!

God grant us discernment for the true church.

 

[Hismessenger]

The only way we keep his commandments is by our faith in his fulfillment of the law and the prophets. The only one who could keep the commandments was Christ. Our works of the flesh only desecrate his sacrifice to wit there is no further sacrifice for our sins other than what he has done. Cease from your works and have faith in Christ. He has finnished the work of the flesh. Now it is truly of the spirit.

hismessenger

 

[josephearl]

I have seen this debate often before and have a few things to share that the Lord has taught me. Remember that Jesus was sent to the Jew. Recall His words,
Matthew 15:24 (AV 1873)
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

When one is trying to properly understand the role that the words of the Gospels have in sound theology it is necessary to take care and not remove them from within this narrow confine. Jesus had to live perfectly under the Law in 2 paradigms. One was to fulfill it to the letter and the other was to fulfill it in the fullness of its intent. This is why He would say things such as,
Matthew 5:27–28 (NASB95)
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Having said that I would suggest that one takes care when trying to apply what Jesus said in the Gospels to the Jews born under Law to our lives as Christians saved by grace. Our Gospel was not the Gospel preached by John and in some ways it is not the Gospel preached by Christ Himself but is the 3rd and final edition of the Gospel as preached by Paul and the other apostles to the Gentiles.

The gist, or main and plain, of this can be found in Acts 15.

If one takes a close look at verses 1 and 2 of Acts 15 he can see what Paul went to Jerusalem to resolve. Then one need look further into the matter and see to what did the Elders and apostles answer. This answer addressed the Law in full and not the narrow issue of circumcision only. Thus we find them telling us this:
Acts 15:28–29 (NASB95)
28 “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.”

Let me ask you, if the elders , the apostles and God the Spirit say we are doing well why do you attempt to place men under a burden that the Jews born under Law themselves could not keep? If you were saved by faith why now do you go back and try and interject works into the matter. As it is written,


Galatians 3:1–4 (NASB95)
1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

Think about it and get free, love ya,
josephearl apostle

 

[groktruth]

The only way we keep his commandments is by our faith in his fulfillment of the law and the prophets. The only one who could keep the commandments was Christ. Our works of the flesh only desecrate his sacrifice to wit there is no further sacrifice for our sins other than what he has done. Cease from your works and have faith in Christ. He has finnished the work of the flesh. Now it is truly of the spirit.

hismessenger

Well, faith comes from hearing the rhema word of God, the word that proceeds from His mouth, not what we read in scripture. So, I asked Him what "keeping" the commandments, and the law and prophets meant. For keeping the commandments, He said that I was to learn the 144 or so imperative voice commandments of Jesus to His disciples that are mentioned in scripture, so that when I made a disciple (the fourth from last last such commandment was to make disciples), I was prepared to "teach them all things whatsoever He had commanded" the original 12, the actual last commandment given.

For the law and the prophets, He said that learning the nearly 1000 laws and prophetic amplification was profitable. Ample opportunity to sow abundantly or sparingly. These were to be taught to whoever was willing to learn, including unbelievers who wanted to prepare the way of the Lord. Or prosper through tithing. Believers were included, as long as they understood that increased knowledge and understanding of the law and the prophets were for greatness in the kingdom, not salvation. It turned out, though, for believers, that for every commandment that Jesus gave His disciples, there were several laws from the OT that were helpful for preparation. This was what was meant by "rightly dividing" the word of truth. Learning to repent, for example, was greatly helped by learning how to choose life, from Deuteronomy.

He said that He was deeply grieved by "believers" who engaged in learning how to, say, manage money, or remember the names of football players, or streets in their town, but could not name His commandments, or say anything intelligent about them.

 

[groktruth]

josephearl,

When I read Matthew 28:18-20, I said to God, "Hey, I want to be made into a disciple, and be taught all those things that You commanded the original 12! Where can I find an apostle to get this done?"

He said that none of those who He had called to be apostles had done what was required to be prepared. None knew the commandments. But, if I wanted, He would teach me what was required, and would help me become a teacher (my calling and gifting) that in better times, might be useful in preparing a newly called apostle. Then, He would lead me to someone who was called to be an apostle, and was willing to learn what was required.

I found about 144 such commandments, and am now working on number 77. Been at it 20 years. I have since found others who are working on the same agenda, and am learning all I can from them. Bill Gothard is one, Home - Biblical Disciplemaking is another.

As a called and gifted apostle, you ought to be interested.

 

[freezerman2000]

I definitely think a 10% minimum tithe is where believers should be, but I can't imagine not allowing someone to attend if they aren't managing that. I mean, do they check people's pay stubs as well?

You sure there's not a misunderstanding? I've heard of churches requiring it for MEMBERSHIP, but not attendance.

But if you have the means and you believe that's what scripture says, why would you not follow?

Requiring tithes as a condition for membership makes the church in question sound like a club...if it is, I say, thanks, but no thanks.
Churches requiring membership dues is not Biblical.

 

[Crankitup]

Well, faith comes from hearing the rhema word of God, the word that proceeds from His mouth, not what we read in scripture. So, I asked Him what "keeping" the commandments, and the law and prophets meant. For keeping the commandments, He said that I was to learn the 144 or so imperative voice commandments of Jesus to His disciples that are mentioned in scripture ...

Let me get this straight. You downplay the role of scripture but when you asked God what was meant by keeping the commandments, guess where He directed you.

I find it hard to believe God would use terms like this in any dialogue with you. "144 or so"????? That doesn't sound like God to me.

 

[Crankitup]

.... so that when I made a disciple (the fourth from last last such commandment was to make disciples), I was prepared to "teach them all things whatsoever He had commanded" the original 12, the actual last commandment given.

...

That reminds me of part of the first post I made in this thread.

.....
(7) Isn’t it true that Christ told His followers just before He returned to Heaven, that they should teach all nations to observe whatsoever he had commanded THEM to observe? Can we find one instance in all of scripture where He commanded them to tithe or to teach the tithe as a New Covenant principle of giving? Admittedly in Matthew 23 He stated that the Pharisees should still tithe, but wasn’t this before he fulfilled the LAW by dying on the cross? (i.e. the Pharisees were still under the law and obligated to tithe, circumcise etc whilst the law was still in operation). Notice also that Jesus used the past tense in Matthew 23:23 ‘…… these ought ye to have done….’ ....

 

[groktruth]

Let me get this straight. You downplay the role of scripture but when you asked God what was meant by keeping the commandments, guess where He directed you.

I find it hard to believe God would use terms like this in any dialogue with you. "144 or so"????? That doesn't sound like God to me.

You got it straight. There are two kinds of scripture the scriptures say to take literally. Those that lead one to a conversation with the Lord Himself, and those that specify what the church is supposed to do, as doctrine. There are certain uses of scripture that are specifically forbidden, including using them as a tree of knowledge of good and evil, and searching them thinking that in them (besides their leading you to Jesus) you will find eternal life. Life, yes, life, no.

God didn't say how many commandments I would find. He said to find all I could, that He would lead me. I am only at 77, and He tells me I am barely halfway done. Gothard only counted 49, the Virginia beach folks got over 200.

For church doctrine, it is written that we only prophesy in part, and that even that part will be flawed and needs judgement by other prophets. But that all can prophesy. Hear everything, and hold on to what is good, another church doctrine.

His fifth command (Matt 5:19) concerns the law, and directly interprets that we are to "do the least of the law and the prophets, to teach others" to do so also. Including tithing, directly noted as one of the lesser of the laws.

 

[Crankitup]

You got it straight. There are two kinds of scripture the scriptures say to take literally. Those that lead one to a conversation with the Lord Himself, and those that specify what the church is supposed to do, as doctrine.

So only those two kinds of scripture are to be taken literally eh? It might help if you could provide us with precisely where in scripture it says this. Further, how are the rest of the scriptures to be taken? As myths, metaphors, what?

God didn't say how many commandments I would find.

Well that's certainly not what you said. So along with a large proportion of scripture, it seems that YOUR words aren't meant to be taken literally as well.

He said to find all I could, that He would lead me. I am only at 77, and He tells me I am barely halfway done. Gothard only counted 49, the Virginia beach folks got over 200.

You've said that God said to you that you are "barely halfway done" and you are at 77. This means the Virginia Beach folks are WAY off base. They have a lot of extras that shouldn't be there. Presumably too you've saved your list of 77 somewhere. Care to copy and paste them here?

Hear everything, and hold on to what is good ...

I'm listening to everything you're saying. Not holding onto much so far though.

His fifth command (Matt 5:19) concerns the law, and directly interprets that we are to "do the least of the law and the prophets, to teach others" to do so also. Including tithing, directly noted as one of the lesser of the laws.

The commandments Christ is referring to in Mt 5:19 when He says "THESE commandments" are those he mentions in His Sermon on the Mount (Mt Ch 5 - 7). He doesn't make any reference to tithing at all in the Sermon on the Mount. Or would you have us believe that Christ told His disciples to tithe (despite scripture not saying so) and then intentionally proceeded to make it impossible for them to do so by sending them out without "purse or scrip" (see Mt 10:9-10 and Lk 22:35).

I've just reread what I've written in this whole post and it comes across as a bit too harsh. It's not my intention to be harsh. I'm just speaking plainly. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

 

[Hismessenger]

Crank it up Hit the nail right on the head. You can not find one scripture where Christ taught them to tithe. He did admonish them for their tithing without understanding the true nature of what the tithe was all about, they were tithing out of laws as usual just like going to the building. Do you tithe to yourself because you are the true church in Christ. Is the building in Christ? When that truth sinks in the false doctrine will loose it's hold on you and you will be your brothers keeper Which is the true principal behind tithing in the old testament.

hismessenger

 

[groktruth]

So only those two kinds of scripture are to be taken literally eh? It might help if you could provide us with precisely where in scripture it says this. Further, how are the rest of the scriptures to be taken? As myths, metaphors, what?

Well that's certainly not what you said. So along with a large proportion of scripture, it seems that YOUR words aren't meant to be taken literally as well.




You've said that God said to you that you are "barely halfway done" and you are at 77. This means the Virginia Beach folks are WAY off base. They have a lot of extras that shouldn't be there. Presumably too you've saved your list of 77 somewhere. Care to copy and paste them here?



I'm listening to everything you're saying. Not holding onto much so far though.



The commandments Christ is referring to in Mt 5:19 when He says "THESE commandments" are those he mentions in His Sermon on the Mount (Mt Ch 5 - 7). He doesn't make any reference to tithing at all in the Sermon on the Mount. Or would you have us believe that Christ told His disciples to tithe (despite scripture not saying so) and then intentionally proceeded to make it impossible for them to do so by sending them out without "purse or scrip" (see Mt 10:9-10 and Lk 22:35).

I've just reread what I've written in this whole post and it comes across as a bit too harsh. It's not my intention to be harsh. I'm just speaking plainly. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

No problem with your tone. Glad that you are persevering.

Deut 28:1 notes that keeping the law "lawfully" (as in Paul., We know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully. 1 Tim 1:8) involves our obeying the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments. Thus, our first task is to learn to function prophetically, hearing the Lord's voice, "knowing" it, and doing what that voice says to do about any specific law. He told me that the least-greatest description of Matt 5:19 indicates that Jesus meant us to seek in our lives, if the Lord gives us the years, to so meditate over all of it.

As I hope I have said before, all prophecy in NT times is imperfect, corporate really. Please do not burden me by taking what I prophesy literally. It is given to edify, to give others something to ask God about themselves, confirming or correcting what I "heard."

I do not have a list of Jesus's commandments to his disciples on the computer. I began making such lists back in 1990, and, well I guess things have changed too much for me. Some earlier drafts were on a word processor.

But, an early prophetic word was that each commandment depended on previous commandments to "get it." And that, while it was profitable to "number your days" and plan generally for as long as it might take, to think much about more advanced commandments would slow me down. But the first five are relevant here:

1. Repent
2. Follow Me.
3. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad in persecution.
4. Let your light so shine before men.
5. Do not think that Jesus came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.

I used to write, and could easily write a small book, 200 pages, on each of these. A picture, of course is worth a thousand words, and if there was someone in the flesh modelling what to do, I am sure it could be learned more quickly. But as it is, each one takes months of study. God has been speaking to me much about long life, so I can get the whole list done.

So, a lot of this cannot, if I am hearing correctly, make sense to you, until you begin at the beginning. Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand. As you learn to repent effectively (ask, and God will show you what works for you), then you will be prepared for the way of the Lord for "following Him" to become a fisher of men. When I did this, He gave me a rather extensive lesson in choosing life as preparation for repentance, a seven step pathway for repentance itself, and a list of rewards or blessings I ought to receive as I learn and do. The most important blessing had to do with effectiveness in prayer, but it was good to watch dysfunctional behaviors pass away, and to experience much clearer hearing and the faith that comes from that.

With each commandment, as Gothard confirms, there is in the keeping extensive input from other scriptures. Commandment 5, for example, with it's emphasis on greater and least laws took me to the Lord's admonishment of the Pharisees, who were keeping lesser laws but neglecting greater ones. Tithing got mentioned specifically there as affirmed righteousness in the Pharisees.

But of course Jesus did not want the disciples to actually tithe. They were to meditate on the "spirit" of that law, and to judge themselves (which we are trained to do learning repentance) accordingly, as they go about giving. And to be ready to teach unbelievers what that law required. Because Jesus was a priest after Melchizedek, where tithing began, a priest to all men, tithing could be taught to all men to their profit. As, of course, the Spirit leads. Later commandments warn about casting pearls before swine, and giving what is holy to dogs.

I'm not through, but I bet that, when I come to the last commandment, I will have read all the rest of the scriptures in conjunction with the commandments. (preparation, pathways, rewards) Then, as a full-fledged "commandment-keeper" I will "abide in His love," and, abiding, with so much prophetic and scriptural word abiding in me, I will be able to move mountains, or bring revival to nations, whatever I want. He will then do whatever I ask. Or so he promised.

So far, so good. Year by year, bigger and bigger prayers get answered to my satisfaction.

This is the curriculum He commanded be taught. Why would we teach anything else? Remember that the "things of man," were what Peter brought up, that Jesus called Satan, a stumbling block. Good place to be very careful.