Tithing, A requirement?

[Goinheix]

But, this does not negate the teaching that tithing/giving or any other work will not suffice for salvation. It is a necessary condition, not a sufficient one. Faith, from hearing, is sufficient. If God, knowing you, tells you that you are saved, then you are saved. But few report that that have ever had any such conversation with God. "The bible says..." will not cut it. Sorry, if that is bad news.

Are you saying that if I do not tithe I am not saved?????????

 

[groktruth]

Are you saying that if I do not tithe I am not saved?????????

If you do not give above the tithe, if your righteousness does not exceed that of the Pharisees, (who did tithe!), it is very likely that any thought you have of salvation is delusion. Better check it out.

 

[Timothew]

If you do not give above the tithe, if your righteousness does not exceed that of the Pharisees, (who did tithe!), it is very likely that any thought you have of salvation is delusion. Better check it out.

 

[Crankitup]

If you do not give above the tithe, if your righteousness does not exceed that of the Pharisees, (who did tithe!), it is very likely that any thought you have of salvation is delusion. Better check it out.

I thought we'd been through all this.

Our righteousness lies in Christ and Him alone. Our works are filthy rags. It's ironic that you question people's salvation regarding works and yet Paul would probably question yours because of the misplaced faith you have in works.

Want to exceed the Pharisees righteousness? No problem. Start by never walking more than 3/5 of a mile on the Sabbath, not lighting a fire (including a gas hotplate or oven) on the Sabbath, adhering to all their washings and ceremonial works etc etc.

There is a better way ..... choose to accept Christ and His sacrifice and stop relying on your filthy rags.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[Goinheix]

If you do not give above the tithe, if your righteousness does not exceed that of the Pharisees, (who did tithe!), it is very likely that any thought you have of salvation is delusion. Better check it out.

I f I am deluted concerning my eternity, it is better to check it out immediately. Can you hepl mr please. I did not found (since 1972 when I wrongly beleved I am saved) any verse, not even a single verse that state what you says. Either I am very deluted or you are scaring christians in orther of getting its money. Either I am stupid or you are a greed man with no moral, ethics at all.

 

[addo]

I didn't read all the thread, so my answer could land in a debate, so it may be a bit out of place. But anyway:

My answer is no, but God does take pleasure in a cheerful giver, one that doesn't give because it is required (but it is not). Actually, if someone doesn't want to give cheerfully anything at all, he should put in doubt whether his heart is circumcised or not. I remember all that no uncircumcised heart is pleasing to God.

 

[GaryArnold]

According to the scriptures, the one who thinks he must tithe in order to be saved has placed himself under the law; thus, falls from grace. According to scripture, once you place yourself under one of the laws, you are then subject to all 613 of them.

You obviously have denied what Jesus did on the cross. Jesus died for you and you deny it. If you still have to tithe in order to be saved, Jesus died for nothing.

 

[Crankitup]

I didn't read all the thread, so my answer could land in a debate, so it may be a bit out of place. But anyway:

My answer is no, but God does take pleasure in a cheerful giver, one that doesn't give because it is required (but it is not). Actually, if someone doesn't want to give cheerfully anything at all, he should put in doubt whether his heart is circumcised or not. I remember all that no uncircumcised heart is pleasing to God.

See question 10 in post #50 as well as post # 104.

 

[groktruth]

I f I am deluted concerning my eternity, it is better to check it out immediately. Can you hepl mr please. I did not found (since 1972 when I wrongly beleved I am saved) any verse, not even a single verse that state what you says. Either I am very deluted or you are scaring christians in orther of getting its money. Either I am stupid or you are a greed man with no moral, ethics at all.

The scriptural basis for this concern is found in 2 Peter 1:10, and 2 Thess 2:11. Now, do not be deceived by those who say that I am claiming that tithing is essential to salvation. Not at all. Faith, which comes from hearing, is essential for salvation. But, deception from the devil, and delusion from God both could counterfeit such faith. Jesus gave many parables about people who thought when they died that they had faith for salvation. Only to find out too late that they were lost. The 2 Peter verse given above has for it's context the strongest emphasis of any command in scripture--"even more than" all diligence" is to be applied to the command, to make sure of your calling and election. God wants us to do this.

Delusion, according to the Thessalonians passage, is prevented by "receiving the love of the truth." Now, there are many commandments that pertain to truth. And, love is defined as keeping the commandments. The call is to make diligent provision for study of and keeping these commands, that tell us how to know what is true. One of those commands is to look at "signs." "Judging yourself."

In Malachi, we are told that we might receive from God the ability to discern the righteous from the wicked, Between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him (3:18) I have sought that gift, so that I might know who to warn of possibly being deluded. What I received was a warning that not giving at levels above the tithing levels was not an encouraging sign. And, ignoring such signs is itself a sign that one does not love the truth.

He said the remedy for delusion is to prepare your heart for a mentor, to "buy" instruction in wisdom, which is the fear of God. Get a mentor, and ask them to instruct you in how to know what is true, scriptural. Normally, we "buy" the truth by spending time, paying attention, and giving to the poor (not the mentor, unless they are poor, and have a need you can see.)

I post this here because I am not available to serve as such a mentor for anyone who is not a neighbor, who I do not know personally. If God wants me to help anyone this way, He will have to tell them without my being involved. My flesh is normally greedy, of course, among many other carnal inclinations. I do what God tells me to do to keep that flesh from getting its way in my life, or the life of others. In this case, I am so wealthy that I usually cannot think of anything I might do with more dollars, or whatever.

 

[Timothew]

The scriptural basis for this concern is found in 2 Peter 1:10, and 2 Thess 2:11.

I looked up these verses and they have nothing to say about tithing. What are you trying to do?

 

[Goinheix]

I didn't read all the thread, so my answer could land in a debate, so it may be a bit out of place. But anyway:

My answer is no, but God does take pleasure in a cheerful giver, one that doesn't give because it is required (but it is not). Actually, if someone doesn't want to give cheerfully anything at all, he should put in doubt whether his heart is circumcised or not. I remember all that no uncircumcised heart is pleasing to God.

I nderstand that in your opinion we do not have to tithe. You, also propose a human argument into the need of givig. The porpouse of all is thet whether we have to tithe or not, the church must keep recieving our money. No matter how.

But the point is: you agree that we do no have the obligation of tithing. If that is your opinion, the next step is to declare that those Pastor teaching that tothing is compulsory are wrong, are teaching false doctrine. Is that OK?

 

[Goinheix]

According to the scriptures, the one who thinks he must tithe in order to be saved has placed himself under the law; thus, falls from grace. According to scripture, once you place yourself under one of the laws, you are then subject to all 613 of them.

You obviously have denied what Jesus did on the cross. Jesus died for you and you deny it. If you still have to tithe in order to be saved, Jesus died for nothing.

Exactly.
Is not only that we do no have to tithe; actually we not aloud to tithe, not even freely. Uf we tithe freely, we are geting under the Moses Law freely. We are being disconected from Christ freely.

Read Acts 15. All the Moses law (including tithing) can not be charged on the christians. Doing so, is a desobedience to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Goinheix]

The scriptural basis for this concern is found in 2 Peter 1:10, and 2 Thess 2:11. Now, do not be deceived by those who say that I am claiming that tithing is essential to salvation. Not at all. Faith, which comes from hearing, is essential for salvation. But, deception from the devil, and delusion from God both could counterfeit such faith. Jesus gave many parables about people who thought when they died that they had faith for salvation. Only to find out too late that they were lost. The 2 Peter verse given above has for it's context the strongest emphasis of any command in scripture--"even more than" all diligence" is to be applied to the command, to make sure of your calling and election. God wants us to do this.

Delusion, according to the Thessalonians passage, is prevented by "receiving the love of the truth." Now, there are many commandments that pertain to truth. And, love is defined as keeping the commandments. The call is to make diligent provision for study of and keeping these commands, that tell us how to know what is true. One of those commands is to look at "signs." "Judging yourself."

In Malachi, we are told that we might receive from God the ability to discern the righteous from the wicked, Between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him (3:18) I have sought that gift, so that I might know who to warn of possibly being deluded. What I received was a warning that not giving at levels above the tithing levels was not an encouraging sign. And, ignoring such signs is itself a sign that one does not love the truth.

He said the remedy for delusion is to prepare your heart for a mentor, to "buy" instruction in wisdom, which is the fear of God. Get a mentor, and ask them to instruct you in how to know what is true, scriptural. Normally, we "buy" the truth by spending time, paying attention, and giving to the poor (not the mentor, unless they are poor, and have a need you can see.)

I post this here because I am not available to serve as such a mentor for anyone who is not a neighbor, who I do not know personally. If God wants me to help anyone this way, He will have to tell them without my being involved. My flesh is normally greedy, of course, among many other carnal inclinations. I do what God tells me to do to keep that flesh from getting its way in my life, or the life of others. In this case, I am so wealthy that I usually cannot think of anything I might do with more dollars, or whatever.

By love, you shal follow all Christ commands. Do not be deluted by Satan, perhaps you think you are saved, and by tithing you will lose your salvation. Salvation is for faith, the law is the oposite to the law, is salvation by doing. By doing what the Moses law, you can lose your faith and trust in your doing insted. Do not be deluted, tithing take you away from salvation.

Do obey Christ. Jesus is telling you that you shal not tohe any more. He teached his disciples that the pharisare hypocrital because they tithe. Read carefully. Jesus says that is WAS necessary to tithe. It means that is NOT any more. Why? because thithing was for supporting the Temple and the sacrifices. Both ceased. There is not more need to support the sacrifices and Temple. Tithing - as Jesus teachs - was necesary in the pass, no more.

Do obey the Holly Spirit. In Act 15, Paul and the 12 Apostles come to an agreement that no Moses loand was to be charged over the christians, and they writed a lletter, a letter signed inperson by the Holy Spirit. All the Moses Law, including tithing is totally prohibited.

Please, obey Christ and Holy Spirit.

The other option you have is to live by Malachi. You do, and you recieve because you did. Not by grace, but because is your right. You tihte, and God has to give you a lot of money in return. You will be rich and prosper, but actually poor in spiritual live.

 

[addo]

I nderstand that in your opinion we do not have to tithe. You, also propose a human argument into the need of givig. The porpouse of all is thet whether we have to tithe or not, the church must keep recieving our money. No matter how.

But the point is: you agree that we do no have the obligation of tithing. If that is your opinion, the next step is to declare that those Pastor teaching that tothing is compulsory are wrong, are teaching false doctrine. Is that OK?

Yes. There are some who say that if we do not tithe we are stealing from God.

It is not compulsory to tithe, but God expects us to give (not a tenth, but more if possible). At the beginning of the Church its memebers gave everything they had for the benefit of the brothers as it is said, "Now all who had believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need." (Acts 2:44-45) We read in chapter 5 how Peter tells Ananias how he could have done what he wanted with the money, and that he shouldn't have lied.

We see that the apostles of Christ did not teach it mandatory to tithe. When one is transformed according to the image of Christ it is something natural for that person to want to give, and he gives as much as he reasons is enough (he must feed his family too, mustn't he?).

So, in conclusion, I say that it is not mandatory from God but it is, in my humble opinion, something every Christian should want to do (I'm not referring to tithing but to giving in general).

 

[Goinheix]

Yes. There are some who say that if we do not tithe we are stealing from God.

Not you. You are not saying that if we do not tithe we are stealing from God. There are some that say that, and you know they are either wrong or lieing.

 

[Goinheix]

It is not compulsory to tithe,

Actually we are not aloud to tithe by own initiative. We do not have the option to tithe. Tithe is part of the Moses Law and we are specifically prohibited of observing any Moses Law, including tithing.

Not only is not compulsory, it is prohibited for christians.

 

[Goinheix]

God expects us to give (not a tenth, but more if possible).

That is not true. It is just an human statement with not biblical base. Actually it contradict the Bible.

In the OT God never expected money or anything material from men. The OT tithe was not for God, it was not giving 10% to God; but to support the Levis.

In the NT Christ teaches that what belong to Caesar (money) is for Caesar, and for God is what belong to God (ourself, not money). One of the atractives of tithing is that those christians that do tithe, feels that they are free from a deeper involvement. Are you taking the Gospel to people that need the Good News? The answer probably is: Yes, I am giving money for that porpouse.

God does not need money, and is not requiring our money. There is not one single verse that says that. Also God does not request from us a prove of our faith on giving money. Money is not a meter of our spiritual status.

 

[Goinheix]

At the beginning of the Church its memebers gave everything they had for the benefit of the brothers as it is said, "Now all who had believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need." (Acts 2:44-45) We read in chapter 5 how Peter tells Ananias how he could have done what he wanted with the money, and that he shouldn't have lied.

They give it all. They never ever tithe.

At the beginning, the church was expecting the second come of the Lord at any day, withing their life time. Thats is way they quit working and sell everything. Later, it came the poverty and it was necesary for Paul to colect money for them. And Peter has to write a letter telling them to go back to their jobs.

That is a good example of a huge mistake of the firsta church that we are warned not to follow.

 

[Goinheix]

We see that the apostles of Christ did not teach it mandatory to tithe.

Actually, the postles did not teach to tithe at all. They never did teacg to tithe voluntarelly, freelly or in any way. They did not teached tithing at all. And it is sugesting that a so importan doctrine (today) has never been included in the NT or the Bible. As the catholics has the own doctrine based on tradition, not the Bible, the protestants have the own doctrine based on the own need for money.

If you search for any teaching concerning tithe, you will found out that Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Paul and the apostles did opose to tithe.

 

[Goinheix]

When one is transformed according to the image of Christ it is something natural for that person to want to give, and he gives as much as he reasons is enough (he must feed his family too, mustn't he?).

This is a human made statement with no biblical support at all. It sound very spiritual but it cames out of the flesh. The transformation into Christ is about spiritual matters, love, faith...not money. Money belongs not to the spirit but to the world and to the flesh. The only concern with money is from the world and the flesh. The spirit has nothing to care about money.