Tithing, A requirement?

[Mister_Al]

If a church is teaching a false doctrine I won't give a cent to it. And if they are teaching that you have to tithe then they are teaching a false doctrine.

Blessings,

Alan

 

[Goinheix]

oh come on, churches, missionaries and christian radio stations (among other things) need money to do their work, we should support them. the early church gave all they had and it was shared amongst the community. if you think the organization is doing well, you should support them. i dont need to find it in the bible, its common sence, God may be doing the actions, but hes doing it through us, and we need money to work. you're doing no good by refusing to support them.

Churches, missionaries and radio stations need money because this is how they get power. They do not have the power of the Holy Spirit; having monet they fell dont need the power of the Holy Spirit, not having money think the Holy Spirit can not operate.

The early church as you say did not tithe. In all the NT not a single church did tithe. Nor any persons in all the NT did tithe. Nobody did teach tithing in the NT. And the chruch was very prosper with the power of the Holy Spirit without money.

Also you are right when you say that the organization is doing well. Many organizations as the Yong Men Christian Asosiation, and the Partido Democratico Cristiano, or the Christian Evangelical Church do well. Obviously they need money. Christ Church does not.

 

[groktruth]

today I eard God telling me that the Bible is the word of God that in it we have all the true revelation and that those denyimg that are sons of evil confusing His real sons (those doing His word the Bible)
that is a direct revelation from God to me con cerning all christians of the globe.

As you can see, "God is saying.." is an excuse for all kind of deviations and crazy doctrines. If "the Bible says..." does not count, any of us can pretend - as I just did - to have a direct revelation of God.

But the botton line is IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE THERE IS NOT A SINGLE VERSE THAT TEACH A CHRISTIAN TO TITHE. Everything else is human talking. Also, in the entire Bible there is not a single verse teching christians to sacrifise cats and dog to God. ¿Why nobody is creating such a doctrine? ¿Why nobady teach to kill cats and dogs as christian doctrine? The same question is ¿why creating a tithe doctrine out of nothing?

The answer is that killing cats and dog will afect christian churches very badly; but insted, christians churches need very badly to get more and more money.

Thank you for telling us that you were only pretending to hear God speak to you! Had me preparing for a serious, perhaps difficult converation with God!

Do you see God as an all-powerful, loving Father, who is not able or willing to have heart to heart talks with His children? Who chooses for them to get His "word" through reading a book? While frequently holding up before us examples of prophets, and Moses, who talked to Him face to face? I would hesitate, of course, to compare myself to Moses, except Jesus said, and put it in writing, that I was greater than Moses.

You give the impression, truth be told, that you hope that none of us can actually have such talks. I hope that is not true.

 

[Crankitup]

Well, probably my giving even exceeds that level of pharisaical righteousness. But, I don't pay many taxes. ...

Can I ask why you don't pay much tax?

 

[groktruth]

Can I ask why you don't pay much tax?

I give beyond the tithe, so am not subject to the governmental God-directed restitution penalty of high taxes. God provides amply for me without entangling me much in the nasty business with "unequal weights and measures" the abomination known as "dollars." To keep the peace, I do a few things with "coins from a fish's mouth." And, as a still unprofitable servant of "little faith," there is still plenty to repent of. Perhaps that repentance frees me from the Lord's judgement of tax penalties. He does provide "loopholes" for the faithful, you know.

 

[GaryArnold]

I give beyond the tithe, so am not subject to the governmental God-directed restitution penalty of high taxes.

Now I've heard everything!

The Lord's tithe was a PAYMENT. The Israelites didn't give a tithe, they PAID a tithe. Yet they also had to pay the Temple Tax (Tribute in KJV). And don't forget, they had THREE different tithes they were commanded to follow.

 

[Hismessenger]

If you truly trust God with your money, give it to someone who is in need and not for the maintenance of a false church. The building isn't the church. YOU are. Put your money where your faith is which is what the tithe was all about. Giving so that those in need were taken care of. We are our brothers keeper. Not the cold stone building they are asking you to support. God will take care of you as you take care of those He brings before you in your walk with Christ.

hismessenger

 

[Crankitup]

I give beyond the tithe, so am not subject to the governmental God-directed restitution penalty of high taxes. God provides amply for me without entangling me much in the nasty business with "unequal weights and measures" the abomination known as "dollars." To keep the peace, I do a few things with "coins from a fish's mouth." And, as a still unprofitable servant of "little faith," there is still plenty to repent of. Perhaps that repentance frees me from the Lord's judgement of tax penalties. He does provide "loopholes" for the faithful, you know.

You speak in riddles. Either that or you are trying to misdirect and misdirection implies an agenda. What that agenda could be I can't be sure of unless it's just that you can't explain why you trust that the promise in Malachi 3:10 applies to you yet your income is so low you hardly pay any tax.

Malachi 3:10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the LORD of hosts,

“ If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.

 

[groktruth]

Now I've heard everything!

The Lord's tithe was a PAYMENT. The Israelites didn't give a tithe, they PAID a tithe. Yet they also had to pay the Temple Tax (Tribute in KJV). And don't forget, they had THREE different tithes they were commanded to follow.

Diplomatic Immunity applies here. It depends what government you are under.

 

[groktruth]

You speak in riddles. Either that or you are trying to misdirect and misdirection implies an agenda. What that agenda could be I can't be sure of unless it's just that you can't explain why you trust that the promise in Malachi 3:10 applies to you yet your income is so low you hardly pay any tax.

Malachi 3:10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the LORD of hosts,

“ If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.

Riddles are good. I hoped to make clear that the last thing I want is "prosperity" in dollars, or taxable income. I enjoy being perhaps the richest man in America without having to touch that filthy stuff.

Surely you distinguish heavenly and earthly treasures? Before one is a disciple, the earthly stuff is the only kind your can truly have. Afterwards, both are possible, but the heavenly stuff is better. My agenda is to teach the lost how to prepare the wat of the Lord, and to teach the deluded, who think that they are saved but are not, an important "by this we know." And, to teach the truly saved how to pray for their nation, so that it might govern in a more Godly manner. Spiritual wisdom.

 

[JESUSIAM]

Tithing is a self-righteous act for those seem to buy your way to heaven.

 

[JESUSIAM]

Paul actually worked as a tent maker to finance his ministry. No where in new testament does it say we are to tithe. Don't allow me to discourage you to give generously to a a worthy cause. We are no longer under the Law, but under Grace. The Catholic Church were the first to implement the requirement of tithing after Christ death.

JESUS

 

[JESUSIAM]

Now, Jesus, the greatest teacher and preacher, was He asking for a tithe to feed the people when He gave the Sermon of the Mount? Instead He made something out of nothing, and everyone got fed.

JESUS

 

[Frogster]

Paul actually worked as a tent maker to finance his ministry. No where in new testament does it say we are to tithe. Don't allow me to discourage you to give generously to a a worthy cause. We are no longer under the Law, but under Grace. The Catholic Church were the first to implement the requirement of tithing after Christ death.

JESUS

Amen.

 

[Frogster]

oh come on, churches, missionaries and christian radio stations (among other things) need money to do their work, we should support them. the early church gave all they had and it was shared amongst the community. if you think the organization is doing well, you should support them. i dont need to find it in the bible, its common sence, God may be doing the actions, but hes doing it through us, and we need money to work. you're doing no good by refusing to support them.

Yes, the money was for the comunity..read acts 6, it went to the widows. Sure, it is cool to give to a ministry, if God tells you too, but the extraction, of money, by pastors, that burdens older folks , on a fixed income, or young struggling families, is wrong. Paul did not want others burdened, and worked not to burden, as per 2 Thess 2.

 

[Crankitup]

....
Surely you distinguish heavenly and earthly treasures?

Of course. I don't disagree with most of the other sentiments you expressed in your last post either. The context of Malachi 3 though is physical blessing and earthly providence not esoteric blessing.

 

[groktruth]

Of course. I don't disagree with most of the other sentiments you expressed in your last post either. The context of Malachi 3 though is physical blessing and earthly providence not esoteric blessing.

Right. Unbelievers close to the kingdom of God often need this. Peter was instructed how to fill his boat with fisn, before he got it, to leave all that behind to seek the Lord Himself.

The civil government concerns itself with worldly prosperity, and working in accordance with the spiritual rules that apply, including tithing, will succeed. Those coming into such material prosperity, like Peter, will be readier for the call to the kingdom of heaven.

But believers have a different agenda. When Peter said "silver and gold have I none" he was proclaiming greater riches than these.

 

[Crankitup]

Right. Unbelievers close to the kingdom of God often need this. Peter was instructed how to fill his boat with fisn, before he got it, to leave all that behind to seek the Lord Himself.

The civil government concerns itself with worldly prosperity, and working in accordance with the spiritual rules that apply, including tithing, will succeed. Those coming into such material prosperity, like Peter, will be readier for the call to the kingdom of heaven.

But believers have a different agenda. When Peter said "silver and gold have I none" he was proclaiming greater riches than these.

I don't disagree with the general thrust of what you're now saying. It seems you've come a long way from comments you made earlier in the thread that prompted me to become involved. Comments like;

1. I still know of no one who had tested God with tithing according to Malachi, and not seen a miraculous increase in prosperity.

2. That passage says that not tithing releases "the devourer" in the land. so, not tithing is why we have so much demonic activity in the land.

3. Not tithing is supposedly stealing from God, who controls the government. The punishment for stealing is to pay back four-fold what was stolen. So, God's government taxes non-tithers four fold what is not tithed (or given.) Hence our current tax rates.

4. This is just, because the government has to deal with crime, or other demonic activity. Non-tithers cause more of this, more expense to the government.

5. People are poor because they are stealing from God. All tithers prosper. Poor people getting charity ought to be told why they are poor, and exhorted to test God as he says, to start prospering. Hence, charity ought never to be a non-religious government activity. When the churches are solely responsible for charity, they can teach those seeking help how to prosper in God.

Your testimony OTOH is that you've tested God in this and yet your income is so low you hardly pay any tax.

 

[Crankitup]

...
Third, the law is a tutor to lead to Christ, and our righteousness must exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees for us to truly receive salvation. Jesus commended them for at least tithing. A "by this you know" which we look at to "be sure of our calling and election," is our giving. Believers ought not tithe, but they ought to be giving way above the tithe. If they are not, they ought to question their salvation ......

Our righteousness lies in Christ and Him alone. Our works are filthy rags. It's ironic that you question people's salvation regarding works and yet Paul would probably question yours because of the misplaced faith you have in works.

Want to exceed the Pharisees righteousness? No problem. Start by never walking more than 3/5 of a mile on the Sabbath, not lighting a fire (including a gas hotplate or oven) on the Sabbath, adhering to all their washings and ceremonial works etc etc.

There is a better way ..... choose to accept Christ and His sacrifice and stop relying on your filthy rags.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[groktruth]

I don't disagree with the general thrust of what you're now saying. It seems you've come a long way from comments you made earlier in the thread that prompted me to become involved. Comments like;



Your testimony OTOH is that you've tested God in this and yet your income is so low you hardly pay any tax.

This was the case before I was saved. I tested God by tithing, became quite materially wealthy, gave it all up, and followed Him. I have known no unbeliever who has tested God through tithing who has not had the same experience of prosperity. But most kept their prosperity.

Of course, a believer would test God with "Give, and it will be given to you." If, in fact they found themselves lacking any good thing. But most learn to pray daily for their daily bread and are therefore never in need.

But "many" according to Jesus, who count themselves as believers, are deluded. He doesn't actually know them, so He says. Because they "practise lawlessness." How might one know, before it is too late? He tells me that, not only is the tithing test a useful tool for "stewarding the heathen" to prepare them for salvation and making peace (poor people frequently disturb the peace), but it is a useful standard for judging self-deception and/or delusion. Money lovers will use saved-by-grace ideas as an excuse to hang on to their money. James', "show me your faith by your works", applies to your level of giving. If it is less than the only affirmed righteousness of the Pharisees, tithing, and you are not repenting of this, you will probably die.

Just thought you would want to know.